Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[KMDP]

Did I just see someone say Sakurai chose a character for a meme status?

When we legit just got the biggest star of Nintendo memes bypassed.

Sakurai gives two ****s about memes.

Sakurai chose Duck Hunt because of the sales of his games and the elements of FPS he represented.

Yes, he said as much in the Proposal he wrote for Duck Hunt.

The hunter and the hunted pair up for Smash! Players control the dog, who uses the duck to attack and recover. An anonymous ally also provides cover fire by shooting from the player's perspective. The US version of the NES came packaged with Duck Hunt and an NES Zapper, so the game and character enjoy surprising notoriety. Duck Hunt's moveset will also incorporate references to other games in the light gun series. They will be this game's surprise character.

Theme: Third-Party Cover Fire[/QUOTE

 

[Guh-Huzzah!]

following that logic geno should not be in... i rly dont doubt geno is popular, but to sell the game on he rly wont do it, and this is actually me saying it because i asked my friends when we diskussed characters for the game, and most of them either didnt care for him or never saw him ever before,

so to casual ppl and those who are not so odlt hat they actively played the game, they dont know geno. so as a retro or secret character he would be perfect, but to use him for advertisement i dont think he is the best choice,

also if you say duckhunt was used for advertisement,
duckhunt is a meme, and sakurai choose him for that more or less, <.< geno is not so much a meme, then he is a nieche fan character most ppl never heard of,
to unlock him ingame as a secret would be dope because you are like who the f is that????? the effect would be a tat better i think ( PERSONALY) ( to me i understand why ppl woudl want him i guess)

Kind of speaking from a more Hardcore fan standpoint. Doubt any casual fans would care about him. And, I'm not saying he would be added because of advertisement purposes, I'm just saying it may help a little bit. I doubt he'll get in though. and I don't care too much about his inclusion honestly.

If you get into Smash.
You are now iconic.

Doesn't matter what or who you are beforehand, you are now a Smash staple with a herd of roaring fans clammoring for your return.

Now, before that though, who was more popular? ROB or Geno? Now I'm no time traveler, but from the Brawl polls, it seemed like Geno was the more popular choice to get into Smash.

I never said he was Iconic, I just said more Iconic than Geno. And being in Smash helped him. But he's still relatively obscure. I just think Geno's More Obscure.

He got popular because he made several Smash Bros appearance, not the other way around

That what I'm saying. Smash Bros. made him more popular than he was before. Before Smash bros? Yeah, I'd say Geno was more popular.


(Just statin' my opinion people.)

 

[Zinith]

So y'all were going on about Birdo being a potential Echo of Yoshi while I was busy doing stuff. (I ALWAYS get tagged on Mondays for some reason when I'm the busiest!!!) Here's my two cents on it:

I don't mind Birdo getting into Smash, but I DO mind that her association with Yoshi should be kept at a minimum. I see her being a semi-clone at the most, a completely unique character using Yoshi's model (a la Kirby -> Jigglypuff or ZSS -> Bayonetta lol) at the least.

 

[TonyMyOnly]

ROB turns me on

 

[Mutsukki]

Nah fam. R.O.B is historical to gaming.

As a resident of New York, and as a visitor of the Strong National Museum of Play, I can tell you who was linked to gaming history and who wasn’t. In terms of what they have at the museum, I can tell you they don’t have a puppet on display.

I think being recognizable depends on which group of people we’re talking about, but R.O.B. is without a doubt more recognizable at the very least in a historical sense.

That's more akin to historic importance, which is quite different from recognizable. I also didn't know about R.O.B until... WarioWare? And even then I didn't bother to search about it, just way later when it got in Mario Kart I think. Or actually, maybe it was AVGN too lol

 

[RandomAce]

Okay. Everyone is getting mad over this whole Geno arguement so let me put it this way.

The thing that makes Geno likley is because all of his major roadblocks are gone. Cloud is already in as a representative of Square Enix (even though saying Geno is a guest is stupid because he is CLEARLY a Mario character), not only that but BOTH Sakurai and fans have been asking for Geno for years, and Square Enix now has connections with Smash.

Although I don’t like the idea of Geno as a newcomer because I think he has a ugly design and is a one shot from an old game, you have to understand Geno has all the stars aligned from him to join the battle, and represents a major point in the beginning of the Mario RPG series. I don’t think EVERY newcomer is coming from the ballot, but I think Geno is one of the few ballot characters that will join the battle most likely as a base character.

I think most third party characters like Sora and Rayman who were popular during the ballot will be DLC because there are already a lot of different third party licenses in the base game. While with DLC they just have to make a deal and license for just the DLC content with just the other company instead of having to consider sharing profits with a ton of other companies. It’s just easier.

 

[Opossum]

I'm not slandering him. He's one of my favorite roster additions ever. He's amazing.

Just stating the facts about him before Mario Kart DS and Brawl.

I wasn't being too serious about it. Just goofing around.

Although I do think R.O.B. is a good demonstration of the difference between being iconic and being important.

 

[Irarius]

I dunno, some pretty Fire Emblem lord who wields a sword or something from a game released 15 or so years ago?

<.< like... lyn or hector? ( yes hector is an axe wielder, but i feel he rly should be in there along witha speer wielder for completions sake but whatever)

 

[Dragoncharystary]

I don't think anyone has been poo-pooing on rayman though? At least not in this thread, he's generally regarded pretty positively.

EDIT: @Tougon Castform can still use thunderbolt even in normal form. checkmate duck!

Everytime he's mentioned anyone who talks about him says he's going to be DLC at best. Rayman was probably regarded as the top third party going in before Verg mentioned Simon Belmont and just like that, boom, Rayman has been forgotten and everyone believes Simon is happening now for some reason. I have never played a Rayman or Castlevania game and have nothing for or against any of the characters from both franchises but honestly, what the heck happened?

 

[Idon]

Kind of speaking from a more Hardcore fan standpoint. Doubt any casual fans would care about him. And, I'm not saying he would be added because of advertisement purposes, I'm just saying it may help a little bit. I doubt he'll get in though. and I don't care too much about his inclusion honestly.




I never said he was Iconic, I just said more Iconic than Geno. And being in Smash helped him. But he's still relatively obscure. I just think Geno's More Obscure.


That what I'm saying. Smash Bros. made him more popular than he was before. Before Smash bros? Yeah, I'd say Geno was more popular.


(Just statin' my opinion people.)

And I'm saying you're missing the point of the discussion.

We already know that ROB is well known. Being in a hit system seller does that to you. There's nothing to add to that if we already know that.

The point we're trying to get across is that ROB didn't exactly get into Smash due to his popularity and certainly not because he was iconic.

 

[SpiralGalaxies]

R.O.B is icredibly important to nintendo's history though guys. Remember, the NES released during the great video game crash. R.O.B helped market the system as a robotic toy not a video game toy. This helped nintendo succeed during a time where they feared video games wouldn't sell very well.

R.O.B is important guys! Give him the respect he deserves.

 

[Irarius]

Kind of speaking from a more Hardcore fan standpoint. Doubt any casual fans would care about him. And, I'm not saying he would be added because of advertisement purposes, I'm just saying it may help a little bit. I doubt he'll get in though. and I don't care too much about his inclusion honestly.




I never said he was Iconic, I just said more Iconic than Geno. And being in Smash helped him. But he's still relatively obscure. I just think Geno's More Obscure.


That what I'm saying. Smash Bros. made him more popular than he was before. Before Smash bros? Yeah, I'd say Geno was more popular.


(Just statin' my opinion people.)

what i try to say is, if they choose geno, the WISEST move to me personaly would be to keep him a secret character and keep him secret until a week after global release or something.. so you have to play the game and have this revelation that there are hidden characters, hinestly if i se him like a secret i would actually be rly rly rly happy to get him, just for the suprise factor

 

[Icedragonadam]

I never really cared for Geno. I always used a party of Mario, Mallow, and Peach.

And I'd prefer a 2nd SQ rep to be from a new IP like Dragon Quest, Mana, Chrono Series etc. Heck even Lara Croft.

 

[Will]

I dunno, some pretty Fire Emblem lord who wields a sword or something from a game released 15 or so years ago?

I mean, Eliwood isn't that popular.

 

[Guh-Huzzah!]

Okay. Everyone is getting mad over this whole Geno arguement so let me put it this way.

The thing that makes Geno likley is because all of his major roadblocks are gone. Cloud is already in as a representative of Square Enix (even though saying Geno is a guest is stupid because he is CLEARLY a Mario character), not only that but BOTH Sakurai and fans have been asking for Geno for years, and Square Enix now has connections with Smash.

Although I don’t like the idea of Geno as a newcomer because I think he has a ugly design and is a one shot from an old game, you have to understand Geno has all the stars aligned from him to join the battle, and represents a major point in the beginning of the Mario RPG series. I don’t think EVERY newcomer is coming from the ballot, but I think Geno is one of the few ballot characters that will join the battle most likely as a base character.

I think most third party characters like Sora and Rayman who were popular during the ballot will be DLC because there are already a lot of different third party licenses in the base game. While with DLC they just have to make a deal and license for just the DLC content with just the other company instead of having to consider sharing profits with a ton of other companies. It’s just easier.

Amen. I'd say he has a pretty good chance at this point. He's fairly iconic too.

 

[DJ3DS]

Okay, a cameo. Another one if you wanna include F-Zero GX, which I had forgotten. Would you really consider him more iconic and popular than Geno still?

Whoa, I never said he was. I'm just saying that he'd had a very recent playable appearance in a high profile game just before Brawl. To answer your question in earnest though... I think either answer is acceptable to a certain demographic.

Older fans who played SMRPG may go for Geno. But to younger fans? I think it's easy to underestimate the impact his appearance as one of the 12 only playable racers in Mario Kart DS is. We are talking a game which by the only metric I could find (VGCharts) outsold SMRPG 10 times over. I personally believe ROBs appearance in MKDS probably made him more iconic than Geno before Smash even came into the picture. Geno has not had the same sort of modern, mainstream exposure.

Back in Brawl I remember seeing ROB in the Dojo and thinking it was super cool that the robot from MKDS was back. I had no clue who Geno was until I started delving deeper into speculation. Turns out I'd seen him before in a cameo (in Superstar Saga) but he is there as fanservice - he makes no impression of you don't recognise him and comparing it to a playable appearance is incredibly disingenuous.

A giant version of him is also in F-Zero GX's Port Town, but still, Nintendo references the Virtual Boy like all the time it's not like it's popular.

And Mario Kart is just... Mario Kart, the game in which Waluigi got shafted for Queen Bee and Wiggler for no reason at all

I'm still waiting for Mario Kart to bring ROB back, to be honest...

 

[zeldasmash]

The roster isn't decided by popularity alone.

True, but and are fan favorites and were added solely due to popularity (Snake was brought back in Ultimate due to popular demand). And Ultimate bringing every character, including and the like was because of popularity and fan demand.

 

[Mutsukki]

I'm still waiting for Mario Kart to bring ROB back, to be honest...

Hey, apparently new updates are on the horizon... so we can only hope for him... (and for Diddy Kong?? I swear Mario Kart is so weird with it's roster choices)

If Pink Gold Peach and Metal Mario can get in, then so can ROB.

And if I hear one person say "Metal Mario" or "Pink Gold Peach" for echo fighters, so help me God, I will blow a gasket.

What are you talking about. Metal Mario's already in Smash, even had a whole stage dedicated to him!

 

[Irarius]

Okay. Everyone is getting mad over this whole Geno arguement so let me put it this way.

The thing that makes Geno likley is because all of his major roadblocks are gone. Cloud is already in as a representative of Square Enix (even though saying Geno is a guest is stupid because he is CLEARLY a Mario character), not only that but BOTH Sakurai and fans have been asking for Geno for years, and Square Enix now has connections with Smash.

Although I don’t like the idea of Geno as a newcomer because I think he has a ugly design and is a one shot from an old game, you have to understand Geno has all the stars aligned from him to join the battle, and represents a major point in the beginning of the Mario RPG series. I don’t think EVERY newcomer is coming from the ballot, but I think Geno is one of the few ballot characters that will join the battle most likely as a base character.

I think most third party characters like Sora and Rayman who were popular during the ballot will be DLC because there are already a lot of different third party licenses in the base game. While with DLC they just have to make a deal and license for just the DLC content with just the other company instead of having to consider sharing profits with a ton of other companies. It’s just easier.

though sora vs geno is a legitimate argument, KH3 is in development for years, and will release soon, not just that, bu if we could believe rumor mills it comes to switch ( take several granes of salt here)

so to pick sora over geno just for pure sell factor is a actual reason to do so, however since square enix and nintendo seem to be cool now i would not be suprised if we actually get geno AND sora,

i feel sora would sell alot of smash games just for his existence alone

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

I never thought I'd see a heated whose more iconic debate between Geno and R.O.B. I feel like it's very clearly this piece of hardware over a side character in an RPG, but you know what I wasn't born yet when R.O.B. was released and was a toddler at Super Mario RPGs release (I feel like this is something people are looking over too. Nintendo was a different think to the world in the mid 80s and the mid 90s so it's kind of hard to compare the iconicness so bluntly).

Anywayyyyy why I actually posted, today in "Reading to much into Sakurai and/or his translator's words" in the direct when discussing the unlockables he uses the phrase "Recruit new fighters to your side".

In what other Smash Game did you recruit fighters to your side to unlock them?*cought*Brawl**cough*SSE*.

SSE 2 confirmed baby.

wow 2 solid totally infallible theories in one day.

 

[Idon]

If Pink Gold Peach and Metal Mario can get in, then so can ROB.

And if I hear one person say "Metal Mario" or "Pink Gold Peach" for echo fighters, so help me God, I will blow a gasket.

 

[Guh-Huzzah!]

And I'm saying you're missing the point of the discussion.

We already know that ROB is well known. Being in a hit system seller does that to you. There's nothing to add to that if we already know that.

The point we're trying to get across is that ROB didn't exactly get into Smash due to his popularity and certainly not because he was iconic.

Oh. That's what you meant. Yeah. I can agree he didn't get in because he was iconic.
Sorry, Got me confused there.

what i try to say is, if they choose geno, the WISEST move to me personaly would be to keep him a secret character and keep him secret until a week after global release or something.. so you have to play the game and have this revelation that there are hidden characters, hinestly if i se him like a secret i would actually be rly rly rly happy to get him, just for the suprise factor

Oh yeah, Definitely. I'd also like if they did this with some other off the wall characters. If they did this with Duck Hunt, just imagine. wow.

 

[KMDP]

Okay. Everyone is getting mad over this whole Geno arguement so let me put it this way.

The thing that makes Geno likley is because all of his major roadblocks are gone. Cloud is already in as a representative of Square Enix (even though saying Geno is a guest is stupid because he is CLEARLY a Mario character), not only that but BOTH Sakurai and fans have been asking for Geno for years, and Square Enix now has connections with Smash.

Although I don’t like the idea of Geno as a newcomer because I think he has a ugly design and is a one shot from an old game, you have to understand Geno has all the stars aligned from him to join the battle, and represents a major point in the beginning of the Mario RPG series. I don’t think EVERY newcomer is coming from the ballot, but I think Geno is one of the few ballot characters that will join the battle most likely as a base character.

I think most third party characters like Sora and Rayman who were popular during the ballot will be DLC because there are already a lot of different third party licenses in the base game. While with DLC they just have to make a deal and license for just the DLC content with just the other company instead of having to consider sharing profits with a ton of other companies. It’s just easier.

I agree with pretty much everything you just said. XD

About Geno's design, it's very "Early Square" and I feel that makes him a bit... overcomplicated, design wise? It doesn't really gel with Mario's simple aesthetic.

Were it me, I'd go for more FF7 characters (which I'm sure I've made my stance on pretty clear XD)

 

[Pyra]

"No, you absolutely can not have Geno back for Smash.
You can, however, have Booster."

-Square, probably.

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

I saw an advertisement for Smash Ultimate including a mock game case and a pamphlet for the game at my local store. Though I had my hands full so I couldn’t grab one for myself. Perhaps if I go back I can grab one.

I have been thinking that Nintendo has also made some headway into mobile gaming with several titles like Mario Run, Fire Emblem Heroes, Animal Crossing Pocket Camp, and technically all the Pokémon games that are out. As I currently can only play mobile games, that’s what I’m mostly restricted to nowadays. That being said, what’s your thoughts on a mobile-version of Ultimate with dumbed down touch oriented gameplay and a locking system like FEH where you collect fighters?

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

I'm not against the idea of Ayumi, but how would she fight?
Honest question.

I have no idea... but I like to think Sakurai had a plan when he considered her...

Maybe she would play kinda like Phoenix Wright? I don't know much about Famicom Detective Club unfortunately

She has a suitcase. Also, somebody suggested that she'd accidentally hurt people while using investigation methods, and the FS could involve a supernatural encounter.

So y'all were going on about Birdo being a potential Echo of Yoshi while I was busy doing stuff. (I ALWAYS get tagged on Mondays for some reason when I'm the busiest!!!) Here's my two cents on it:

I don't mind Birdo getting into Smash, but I DO mind that her association with Yoshi should be kept at a minimum. I see her being a semi-clone at the most, a completely unique character using Yoshi's model (a la Kirby -> Jigglypuff or ZSS -> Bayonetta lol) at the least.

You know, there's one character I feel that would be an ideal Echo that everyone here is sleeping on.

Toadette.

This is hypothetical, but if Captain Toad managed to get in, she'd be the ideal echo for him. Has shown up mostly in spin-offs, and in her one major role, she doesn't do anything that the Captain wouldn't do. Give her some unique animations and slight attribute differences, and voila, instant Echo.

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

What are you talking about. Metal Mario's already in Smash, even had a whole stage dedicated to him!

He’s talking about Mario Kart.

Ask, don’t multi-post.

 

[Mutsukki]

"No, you absolutely can not have Geno back for Smash.
You can, however, have Booster."

-Square, probably.

Finally a suitable echo fighter for Wario

He’s talking about Mario Kart.

I was responding to his small phrase.

Either way I was joking ahaha

 

[Megadoomer]

From what I've heard, it plays a clip of a bongo being hit whenever one of DK's final smash punches connects. Whenever people mod the game, I fully expect someone's going to replace that sound to make it something like this:

Tying in to what I posted earlier, I just found this masterpiece:

 

[Guh-Huzzah!]

I agree with pretty much everything you just said. XD

About Geno's design, it's very "Early Square" and I feel that makes him a bit... overcomplicated, design wise? It doesn't really gel with Mario's simple aesthetic.

Were it me, I'd go for more FF7 characters (which I'm sure I've made my stance on pretty clear XD)

I dunno. He feels pretty Simple to me. The only thing I'd really say that's details are the articulation. Which for a doll, make sense.

I saw an advertisement for Smash Ultimate including a mock game case and a pamphlet for the game at my local store. Though I had my hands full so I couldn’t grab one for myself. Perhaps if I go back I can grab one.

I have been thinking that Nintendo has also made some headway into mobile gaming with several titles like Mario Run, Fire Emblem Heroes, Animal Crossing Pocket Camp, and technically all the Pokémon games that are out. As I currently can only play mobile games, that’s what I’m mostly restricted to nowadays. That being said, what’s your thoughts on a mobile-version of Ultimate with dumbed down touch oriented gameplay and a locking system like FEH where you collect fighters?

If it's something like Marvel, Contest Of Champions. i could see it. But normal smash with touched down features? I'm not so sure.

 

[Irarius]

Oh. That's what you meant. Yeah. I can agree he didn't get in because he was iconic.
Sorry, Got me confused there.


Oh yeah, Definitely. I'd also like if they did this with some other off the wall characters. If they did this with Duck Hunt, just imagine. wow.

i feel like to have all the other echo characters say
chrom, D samus, shadow , and a legit newcommer such as geno a complete secret there is alot to be exited about if you just get this moment of WHOA,

also think of this scenario, we get sora ( jsut an example) and his trailer and so on, then everybody like k geno wont happen propably, BUT THEN he is in the roster like that, and the geno fans get hyped out like crazy and rly are exited,

i am a ridley fan... i speak of experience.. any metroid suprise rep before ultimate as a secret or so would have made me jump out a window,... literaly anybody would have done there.

 

[Pyra]

Tying in to what I posted earlier, I just found this masterpiece:

Thread over, this video wins. Cancel Ultimate, it'll never be better than this.

 

[Luminario]

Said game never got a European release

Ah, that explains how I never heard of him when I was younger. I remember wondering who this Pinocchio with a gun was when I first started getting into Smash speculation.

Looking at the different abilities in Mario RPG you can really see how much was brought in from it. Mario's FS is legit ripped right from the game, and a bunch of Peach's attacks came from there too.

Also looking at Geno's abilities it looks like he could easily be built from Mii Gunner. How come y'all don't have the same love for Mallow anyway? A weather-manipulating cloud sounds so cool.

 

[DJ3DS]

Hey, apparently new updates are on the horizon... so we can only hope for him... (and for Diddy Kong?? I swear Mario Kart is so weird with it's roster choices)

Mario Kart perplexes me. I'll never understand why they shoehorn made up baby characters into the game when they've plenty of other characters to try. I'm also not a fan of the metal versions of characters, though I realise that's hypocritical when my personal metric for roster success is "does this have Dry Bones or Dry Bowser?".

The original pre DLC MK8 was actually the reason I didn't buy a Wii U. How can you go so wrong with such a large roster?

If it were me I'd add more DK into the mix as well as a few more one offs. As much as I hate the sight of Honey Queen I'd rather they experimented more with the likes of that than the likes of Baby Rosalina.

 

[Guh-Huzzah!]

i feel like to have all the other echo characters say
chrom, D samus, shadow , and a legit newcommer such as geno a complete secret there is alot to be exited about if you just get this moment of WHOA,

also think of this scenario, we get sora ( jsut an example) and his trailer and so on, then everybody like k geno wont happen propably, BUT THEN he is in the roster like that, and the geno fans get hyped out like crazy and rly are exited,

i am a ridley fan... i speak of experience.. any metroid suprise rep before ultimate as a secret or so would have made me jump out a window,... literaly anybody would have done there.

I wish some Newcomers, Nintendo kept secret, then announced later.

 

[KMDP]

Also looking at Geno's abilities it looks like he could easily be built from Mii Gunner. How come y'all don't have the same love for Mallow anyway? A weather-manipulating cloud sounds so cool.

Funny you say that, because Mii Gunner was built from abilities Sakurai was going to give Geno.

 

[Mutsukki]

Mario Kart perplexes me. I'll never understand why they shoehorn made up baby characters into the game when they've plenty of other characters to try. I'm also not a fan of the metal versions of characters, though I realise that's hypocritical when my personal metric for roster success is "does this have Dry Bones or Dry Bowser?".

The original pre DLC MK8 was actually the reason I didn't buy a Wii U. How can you go so wrong with such a large roster?

If it were me I'd add more DK into the mix as well as a few more one offs. As much as I hate the sight of Honey Queen I'd rather they experimented more with the likes of that than the likes of Baby Rosalina.

Someone asked me if Baby Rosalina wasn't factually wrong in Mario canon because she was neither a princess yet nor she was so blonde when young and I just couldn't answer. It's... well. Yeah.

Metal Mario's an interesting case, since he actually has very different animations than regular Mario and is it's own thing, while Pink Gold Peach is just Peach with a different texture.

And I feel you, it took a game, two batches of DLC and a port for me to finally get my favorite character (King Boo).

Sometimes we have to look at Smash and see we're actually blessed

 

[Green_Pikmin*]

Whos our next cult character after k rool, ashley, and geno are all in

dont say waluigi

Rhythm Heaven Character

 

[Pyra]

How come y'all don't have the same love for Mallow anyway? A weather-manipulating cloud sounds so cool.

We already have a frog in the game.

 

[zeldasmash]

Funny you say that, because Mii Gunner was built from abilities Sakurai was going to give Geno.

Really? Gunner was built from Geno ideas? Interesting.

I won't be surprised at this point if Swordsman was built from Chrom assets.