Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Zinith]

...Where's Don Patch at?

Bobobo-bo Bo-bobo will be the "Donkey Kong series" of this game

 

[OdnetninAges]

the team of Jump Force said he wasn’t playable because he would be overpowered and couldn’t make it work.

I think either I didn't make what I was saying clear, or you misunderstood me, so I'll try to be more blunt:

What is the source for this? I had assumed he was either playable or an antagonist based on him appearing in the reveal trailer.

I am talking about Jump Force here, not whatever that chibi mobile game is.

 

[papagenos]

The fact that Luffy is front and center is a subtle reminder that One Piece is the best selling manga of all time...

the first time I went to japan I expected tons of DBZ, Sailor Moon, pokemon etc... everywhere, instead I was shocked it was One Piece everywhere. every little shop had one piece keychains/toys/something etc... for sale (dont get me wrong those other animes are around too and especially really nerdy places all animes are plentiful but One Piece was EVERYWHERE).

 

[P.Kat]

Are we still on the topic of an Alola rep? Because I've just come up with one that could potentially catch some steam, even though it's likely that they'll never be implemented into Smash.

Spoiler: People still haven't played the SuMo games, right? Because if they do, then spoilers ho!

The character I would choose to represent Gen VII is Lusamine, the main antagonist of Sun and Moon.

Basically, I envision her similarly to Pokemon Trainer, in that she wouldn't actually be doing most of the fighting, but sending out 3 different Pokemon in her stead. She's only shown to have five Pokemon at most in the games, being Clefable, Lilligant, Mismagius, Milotic, and Bewear (who is exempted due to already being and Assist Pokemon). The first three would be the ones she could potentially utilize, each having a moveset of their own, and still swapping between them with a quick down-B press. As for her Final Smash, she could potentially let loose a Nihilego and take on her Motherbeast form, using any single powerful poison-type attack (potentially Acid Downpour, thanks to its status as a Z-Move). Aside from bringing in new options and matchups, Lusamine would be accounted for as the first truly villainous Pokemon rep (Mewtwo's situation is still up in the air right now), and act as Smash's first female villain (I wouldn't count Wendy, seeing as she's an alt for Bowser Jr.), killing two birds with one stone.

Yes, I'm aware of the irony of having no actual Alolan Pokemon on her team, shut yer traps.

Sounds good but

Spoiler: Sun and Moon spoiler anime

That's if they take her from the game, in the anime, she was as nice and pure as can be until Nihilego kidnapped her to Ultra Space, and forced her to transform into her Motherbeast form. Ash and Pikachu had to battle her, defeat the Nihilego on her, and restore her to normal. Or if they take her from Ultra Sun and Moon where she slightly moree sympathetic (so I heard) and switches to good and realize her mistake before the end. So, I'm unsure about her being a true villain, but she was definitely evil in the Sun and Moon game until she (started to) turn good at the end

 

[Will]

Wasn’t there a leak that mentioned something about a Smash styled Jump game? That actually just got announced.

It wasn't leaked if it was officially announced in a magazine.

 

[BlondeLombax]

Sounds good but

Spoiler: Sun and Moon spoiler anime

That's if they take her from the game, in the anime, she was as nice and pure as can be until Nihilego kidnapped her to Ultra Space and forced her to transform into her Motherbeast form. Or if they take her from Ultra Sun and Moon where she slightly moree sympathetic (so I heard) and switches to good and realize her mistake before the end. So, I'm unsure about her being a true villain, but she was definitely evil in the Sun and Moon game until she turn good at the end

True that...

Spoiler: I refuse to spoil anything for those who have yet to play SuMoUSUM, sorry.

Actually, the vision I had in mind for Lusamine was a version of her where she went off the deep end and actually had her plans go through without a hitch, kind of like the Team bosses in the USUM postgame. It'd be fascinating to see, and the devs at SORA have that tendency to spice their characters up a bit (I.E. Ridley's sadistic sense of humor, Captain Falcon's MAGESTY, Lucas's Subspace character development). I was considering Giovanni, but since he uses mostly ground-types in his games, there wouldn't be much variety in his choices of Pokemon.

 

[ZephyrZ]

Are we still on the topic of an Alola rep? Because I've just come up with one that could potentially catch some steam, even though it's likely that they'll never be implemented into Smash.

Spoiler: People still haven't played the SuMo games, right? Because if they do, then spoilers ho!

The character I would choose to represent Gen VII is Lusamine, the main antagonist of Sun and Moon.

Basically, I envision her similarly to Pokemon Trainer, in that she wouldn't actually be doing most of the fighting, but sending out 3 different Pokemon in her stead. She's only shown to have five Pokemon at most in the games, being Clefable, Lilligant, Mismagius, Milotic, and Bewear (who is exempted due to already being and Assist Pokemon). The first three would be the ones she could potentially utilize, each having a moveset of their own, and still swapping between them with a quick down-B press. As for her Final Smash, she could potentially let loose a Nihilego and take on her Motherbeast form, using any single powerful poison-type attack (potentially Acid Downpour, thanks to its status as a Z-Move). Aside from bringing in new options and matchups, Lusamine would be accounted for as the first truly villainous Pokemon rep (Mewtwo's situation is still up in the air right now), and act as Smash's first female villain (I wouldn't count Wendy, seeing as she's an alt for Bowser Jr.), killing two birds with one stone.

Yes, I'm aware of the irony of having no actual Alolan Pokemon on her team, shut yer traps.

As awesome as another Pokemon Trainer style rep would be, I really don't see them doing it a second time. That'd be essentially giving Pokemon three newcomer slots. It would probably be better for them to spread the love with other franchises.


And by that I mean they should add an Elibian Tactician character who swaps between commanding Hector, Eliwood and Lyn mid-battle.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

What if they add Lusamine as a character, but she's possessed by Nihilego? Think about it, it's the perfect compromise for those who want Nihilego as she could use all of it's abilities, and it would represent Gen 7 (specifically Sun and Moon) pretty well.

 

[KMDP]

the first time I went to japan I expected tons of DBZ, Sailor Moon, pokemon etc... everywhere, instead I was shocked it was One Piece everywhere. every little shop had one piece keychains/toys/something etc... for sale (dont get me wrong those other animes are around too and especially really nerdy places all animes are plentiful but One Piece was EVERYWHERE).

People underestimate how popular One Piece is in Japan (especially in the places where the 4Kids dub hit).

It's the best selling manga series (and a Guinness World Record holder) for a reason.

...Where's Don Patch at?

It seems to be "One Character Per Series", so no Don Patch, no Vegeta, no Zoro, no Sasuke, no Bakugou/All Might etc.

 

[JayJay55]

It wasn't leaked if it was officially announced in a magazine.

The game itself wasn’t officially announced until the 14th though. There was no information given on the article about the game, only something ambiguous about Bandai Namco announcing some co-publishing project, which could’ve been anything.

 

[P.Kat]

True that...

Spoiler: I refuse to spoil anything for those who have yet to play SuMoUSUM, sorry.

Actually, the vision I had in mind for Lusamine was a version of her where she went of the deep end and actually had her plans go through without a hitch, kind of like the Team bosses in the USUM postgame. It'd be fascinating to see, and the devs at SORA have that tendency to spice their characters up a bit (I.E. Ridley's sadistic sense of humor, Captain Falcon's MAGESTY, Lucas's Subspace character development). I was considering Giovanni, but since he uses mostly ground-types in his games, there wouldn't be much variety in his choices of Pokemon.

Ok , now I understand where your getting at yeah that's pretty dark, but dark enough for Smash.

 

[ZephyrZ]

What if they add Lusamine as a character, but she's possessed by Nihilego? Think about it, it's the perfect compromise for those who want Nihilego as she could use all of it's abilities, and it would represent Gen 7 (specifically Sun and Moon) pretty well.

You mean this?

Spoiler: SM

No joke, this might just be the coolest idea for a Smash newcomer I've seen yet. It was such a disappointment you never actually got to fight her directly in SM. I'm not getting my hopes up but I really want to see this happen now.

 

[KMDP]

You mean this?

Spoiler: SM

No joke, this might just be the coolest idea for a Smash newcomer I've seen yet. It was such a disappointment you never actually got to fight her directly in SM. I'm not getting my hopes up but I really want to see this happen now.

I'm pretty sure that version of Lusamine is the one that has a Support Thread (I can't quite remember, I've seen so many the last few days someone brought it up on that thread).

 

[Deleted member]

Was Ness in the demo if so was pk fire nerfed??

 

[KMDP]

Was Ness in the demo if so was pk fire nerfed??

According to Smashwiki, PK Fire has a slower start-up (a nerf), but has a faster cooldown and has a larger hitbox (two buffs).

 

[SpiralGalaxies]

Lusamine could absolutely work as a fighter in my mind. in fact, any (noteworthy) pokemon trainer could work as a fighter if created in a certain way. My idea was to have (Insert trainer here) be a summoner type character similar to Yuna from Dissidia Final Fantasy.

For those who don't know, Yuna in her own game was a healer/summoner type character. That focused on healing and summoning giant creatures to fight in the party's stead. In dissidia, all of her attacks involve summoning her summons to deal damage. She doesn't actually do any attackers herself really. But she is the hurtbox. Her summons can't be damaged, only clanked with. You have to knock her out.

So imagine Lusamine as the character you damage and ko, but all her attacks involve quickly letting out her pokemon to deal damage before them dissapearing. Like her jab could be summoning...idk bewear to do a three hit punch. Her Ftilt involves her lilligant doing an attack, her smashes all invovle her ingame pokemon team. Kind of like a different version of olimar only you can't kill her pokemon and she herself doesn't do anything but run, jump and grab and stuff.

I think doing this would require a lot of time and effort so I don't view it as a very realistic possibility. But It's kind of been my favourite fighting style i've thought about.

I hope I explained my thought process clearly. I have put way too much of my free hours into thinking this up.

(Here's an example of Yuna's fighting style to get an idea of what I mean)

 

[Luminario]

A Lusamine support thread? What a crazy idea~

 

[Deleted member]

According to Smashwiki, PK Fire has a slower start-up (a nerf), but has a faster cooldown and has a larger hitbox (two buffs).

Yes now can approach Ness as little mac with out being bombarded with pk fire as quickly

 

[L9999]

Yes now can approach Ness as little mac with out being bombarded with pk fire as quickly

If you get hit by PK Fire that just means you are woefully predictable (and bad). PK Fire sucks against Mac onstage. Dash Attack is the real Mac killer.

 

[KMDP]

Lusamine could absolutely work as a fighter in my mind. in fact, any (noteworthy) pokemon trainer could work as a fighter if created in a certain way. My idea was to have (Insert trainer here) be a summoner type character similar to Yuna from Dissidia Final Fantasy.

For those who don't know, Yuna in her own game was a healer/summoner type character. That focused on healing and summoning giant creatures to fight in the party's stead. In dissidia, all of her attacks involve summoning her summons to deal damage. She doesn't actually do any attackers herself really. But she is the hurtbox. Her summons can't be damaged, only clanked with. You have to knock her out.

So imagine Lusamine as the character you damage and ko, but all her attacks involve quickly letting out her pokemon to deal damage before them dissapearing. Like her jab could be summoning...idk bewear to do a three hit punch. Her Ftilt involves her lilligant doing an attack, her smashes all invovle her ingame pokemon team. Kind of like a different version of olimar only you can't kill her pokemon and she herself doesn't do anything but run, jump and grab and stuff.

I think doing this would require a lot of time and effort so I don't very it as a very realistic possibility. But It's kind of been my favourite fighting style i've thought about/

I hope I explained my thought process clearly. I have put way too much of my free hours into thinking this up.

(Here's an example of Yuna's fighting style to get an idea of what I mean)

Good idea. You could also have her using the other Ultra Beasts as well (I feel this is the exact kind of canon-bending Sakurai would do).

 

[Jetsurge]

What if they add Lusamine as a character, but she's possessed by Nihilego? Think about it, it's the perfect compromise for those who want Nihilego as she could use all of it's abilities, and it would represent Gen 7 (specifically Sun and Moon) pretty well.

No because
1. The game still treats her like a normal Pokeball battle
2. Ultra Sun and Moon removed it

 

[Deleted member]

If you get hit by PK Fire that just means you are woefully predictable (and bad). PK Fire sucks.

Not against Little Mac how exactly am i supposed to stop him from doing that when I approach him

 

[BlondeLombax]

What if they add Lusamine as a character, but she's possessed by Nihilego? Think about it, it's the perfect compromise for those who want Nihilego as she could use all of it's abilities, and it would represent Gen 7 (specifically Sun and Moon) pretty well.

That is an alternative as well. It fits with the potential characterization of her having gone too far with her plans, basically becoming a true villain. Plus, we'd get our first primary poison-type Pokemon in the series (sorry, Ivysaur).

Yeah, I like your idea better.

 

[Mutsukki]

The game itself wasn’t officially announced until the 14th though. There was no information given on the article about the game, only something ambiguous about Bandai Namco announcing some co-publishing project, which could’ve been anything.

This year's Shonen Jump's 50th anniversary so it's a pretty plausible "leak" to come up with. Also that leak got like, 99% of things wrong aside from there being another Shonen Jump game lol

 

[KMDP]

Not against Little Mac how exactly am i supposed to stop him from doing that when I approach him

Simple, dodge around it.

 

[Deleted member]

No because

2. Ultra Sun and Moon removed it

Ultra Sun and Ultra moon are not really remakes of sun and moon more like a alternate ending

Simple, dodge around it.

When hes standing at the edge how do I do that side B off the edge edit bro my cell phone told me someone else posted o boy...

 

[osby]

Not against Little Mac how exactly am i supposed to stop him from doing that when I approach him

With his side-B?

 

[L9999]

Not against Little Mac how exactly am i supposed to stop him from doing that when I approach him

Powershield then punish. It has 10 million years of startup and endlag, you can surely DA or dash grab in time. Or instead of running right into a free punish apply some walking and foxtrotting, to not only shield more efficiently but also to throw off his timing.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

When hes standing at the edge how do I do that side B off the edge

You don't have to approach him.

Make Ness come to you by going to the other side of the platform. Make him make a mistake.

Or even use Counter if you're ballsy.

 

[Deleted member]

Powershield then punish. It has 10 million years of startup and endlag, you can surely DA or dash grab in time. Or instead of running right into a free punish apply some walking and foxtrotting, to not only shield more efficiently but also to throw off his timing.

You know what I'll stick to villager for fighting Ness nothing like pocketing his recovery move

 

[L9999]

You know what I'll stick to villager for fighting Ness nothing like pocketing his recovery move

So the PK Fire comment was pointless then?

 

[Swamp Sensei]

You know what I'll stick to villager for fighting Ness nothing like pocketing his recovery move

You strike me as someone who wants an easy win button.

You won't get one.

 

[Deleted member]

So the PK Fire comment was pointless then?

If PK Fire doesn't exist or is not as spammable Little Mac punishes Ness

You strike me as someone who wants an easy win button.

You won't get one.

Villager versus Ness is pretty much as close as you get to that edit seriously again let me reboot the page

 

[Mutsukki]

Villager versus Ness is pretty much as close as you get to that

nah

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Villager versus Ness is pretty much as close as you get to that edit seriously again let me reboot the page

So you're going to rely on one specific strategy that is dependent on the Ness player not doing anything to stop it?

You need to learn to play the neutral man, regardless of your character.

 

[L9999]

If PK Fire doesn't exist or is not as spammable Little Mac punishes Ness

That is not true. The real Mac killers are Dash Attack and Foward Throw. DA sends Mac into a nasty angle that guarantees a Fair chain and FThrow has set knockbacks that forces Mac to pick a commital option offstage. Mac has various whiff punishes on Ness.

Villager versus Ness is pretty much as close as you get to that edit seriously again let me reboot the page

I have slayed countless Villagers who think the MU is free. Dumbass Villagers who don't know Ness's PKT/Magnet/airdodge mixups as well as not respecting damage output that can get me a lead and force them to approach. If you really want a Ness delete button there is Corrin. That MU truly is free.

 

[osby]

If PK Fire doesn't exist or is not as spammable Little Mac punishes Ness


Villager versus Ness is pretty much as close as you get to that edit seriously again let me reboot the page

Ness have a hard time against fast characters, if you use him correctly, Little Mac can take him down.

 

[Deleted member]

So you're going to rely on one specific strategy that is dependent on the Ness player not doing anything to stop it?

You need to learn to play the neutral man, regardless of your character.

Yeah that makes sense the only characters I can really use exceptionally well are Sonic and little mac with My Little Mac I just approach whatever I want and pummel it ness does not let me do that so when I try I have 70% before I can blink I guess I got to pull out the trustey level 9 CPU to find a way to counter Ness

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

No because
1. The game still treats her like a normal Pokeball battle
2. Ultra Sun and Moon removed it

Except Ultra Sun and Moon weren't exactly ideas other than "we've got to do the annual rereleases" when Sun and Moon were being developed, which was when Smash Bros Ultimate's roster was being decided.

Ultra Sun and Ultra moon are not really remakes of sun and moon more like a alternate ending

Also this. Sun and Moon did little to nothing to alter Sun and Moon, and in fact made the story worse in my opinion. Removing the real conflict with Lusamine and the Aether Foundation alongside stunting Lillie's growth as a character was horrible, and what did we get in return? The UB Response Squad or whatever they were called doing literally nothing and a fight against a busted-ass Ultra Necrozma? They might as well be ignored with the exception of Dusk Lycanroc, which should've been a thing from the beginning.

After wasting my time by watching the Pokémon Sun and Moon anime, Nihilego!Lusamine fights with energy blasts alongside manipulation of water and earth. Alongside using base Nihilego's abilities, I think it's definitely possible.

We could even have a Metroid reference in her reveal trailer, given the similarities between the two.

 

[osby]

Yeah that makes sense the only characters I can really use exceptionally well are Sonic and little mac with My Little Mac I just approach whatever I want and pummel it ness does not let me do that so when I try I have 70% before I can blink I guess I got to pull out the trustey level 9 CPU to find a way to counter Ness

If you don't play regularly some match-ups can be hard against even CPUs, I know from myself. Though it's good practice. You must change your playstyle once in a while in Smash.