Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[NintenZ]

Everyone is here.
And i would expect to see them in their dinal smashes.

He’s talking about them appearing in other characters’ Final Smashes actually. Not about them having their own.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Splatoon doesn't really appeal to me, especially now you say that single player mode isn't all that big. And am not a Sonic fan, so not a big chance I'll ever play Mania.

So... does that mean you're considering Snipperclips and indies?

 

[Jetsurge]

You underrate Impa. But yes, Chrom is probably one of the more likely Echoes, and am fine with that.

Chrom isn't getting in. The biggest complaint about FE is that they're all swordsman he isn't going to add another one

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Don't know if this showed up in the thread already, but I thought it was kind of interesting.

https://twitter.com/NWPlayer123/status/1017608037282926592

Basically, Smash has been in development for so long that it was actually the second Switch game in development!

I went through and pulled some of the serials for the notable games, and here are my thoughts (we're all concerned about game development times, so this might be interesting).

BOTW: AAA
SmashU: AAB
Odyssey: AAC
...

There are no more AA games, so moving to AB. This has MK8D (ABP), ARMS (ABQ), Splatoon 2 (AB6) and 1-2-Switch (ACC). There is a massive gap, going to C, which has Mario + Rabbids (C2G). Then we have D, which has lots: Xenoblade 2 (DEN), Pokemon Lets Go (DW2/DW3), Fire Emblem Warriors (DXH), Mario Party (DFJ) and, surprisingly, Labo (DFU/DFV). E has Snipperclips (EXY). DKC is in F (FWT). Kirby is in H (H26). And Captain Toad sits in J (JH9).

The 'A' games all have one commonality, aside from Smash: being first-party totally developed by Nintendo EAD, which suggests they were planned as early Switch titles from the beginning of the console's conceptualization (especially for ARMS and 1-2 Switch which are designed to use the console's mechanics). Mario + Rabbids is really surprising, but that was talked about in leaks for forever before launch so it makes sense. We know Xenoblade 2 started development in 2014, so I'm assuming that being developed by an external studio (Monolith vs Nintendo EAD) is why it wasn't listed earlier, as it cooked for almost as long as BOTW! PLG couldn't have been in development any earlier than 2016 as the mobile game launched in 2016, so the commonality between the 'D' games has to be external developers (Monolith, Koei and ND Cube; I have no idea how Labo fits into this).

Knowing this now, from a development angle, any of the EAD-developed games could stand a decent chance of representation in the game, even ARMS which a lot of people are on the fence with (ARMS was actually the main reason for making this post). If 1-2-Switch, a game that literally only makes sense with the Switch being totally finalized, was developed after ARMS started its own development, ARMS should have been in development longer than most of us thought.

Interesting information, but it changes absolutely nothing since when a game starts development isn't as important as you think. I mean, Radiant Dawn and Mario Galaxy started development before the Brawl roster was finalized and those two games didn't get much content representation in Brawl, let alone any playable fighters that debuted in those games. Heck, I don't even think Galaxy even got anything in Brawl.

 

[Deleted member]

Chrom isn't getting in.

You really need to stop being so definitive about things when you have no inside knowledge.

 

[NintenZ]

Chrom isn't getting in. The biggest complaint about FE is that they're all swordsman he isn't going to add another one

If it’s an Echo then there wouldn’t be a problem since the whole point of Echos is that they’re based off other fighters.

 

[papagenos]

If it’s an Echo then there wouldn’t be a problem since the whole point of Echos is that they’re based off other fighters.

This.

echos are suppose to be more of what we already have.

 

[drag0nscythe]

Yes, and who's to say that Kumatora wasn't modelled as an echo first and then just added to Lucas's Final Smash because she's the only character in Mother 3 who can use PK Starstorm? Or who's to say that Chrom wasn't added as a character before being readded to Robin's FS because he was well requested in the Smash For time period. Just because we see something first doesn't mean it was intended to be that way first, the Echoes could we complete but saved for a later reveal date and they were just put into the FS as a little bonus, also the Final Smashes would be shown off first because too many character announcements at once can leave a drought period of no announcements which the fanbase wouldn't like.

Sounds very similar to ridley being playable in smash wii u.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

So guys, another question. I want you to recommend me some Switch games.

Right now, am having a BLAST with Breath of the Wild, Tropical Freeze and Hyrule Warriors. But am looking for more. Cause eventually I will finish both BOTW and TF and HW alone cannot fulfill all my gaming needs on the Switch. Is there any game besides Oddysey that's as huge as these games that I missed out on? I exclude Odyssey for now because I know I cannot enjoy it as much as I did enjoy Mario 64 and Galaxy 1, so that'll hurt my overall experience.. but am open for any other suggestion.

If you're into Metroidvanias then I can't recommend Hollow Knight enough, one of the best games in the genre and good for at least 20 hours of playtime, it's honestly criminal how much value for money you get with it.

 

[NintenZ]

Sounds very similar to ridley being playable in smash wii u.

To be fair with Ridley all people knew about him was his shadow, nothing else was confirmed which is why people pulled so many straws due to the amount of ambiguity he was given by Sakurai.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

This.

echos are suppose to be more of what we already have.

Yeah, sometimes you wanna try a different brand's vanilla instead of taking a chance on a new flavor.

 

[drag0nscythe]

To be fair with Ridley all people knew about him was his shadow, nothing else was confirmed which is why people pulled so many straws due to the amount of ambiguity he was given by Sakurai.

Same with this fs deal or the playable AT idea i saw.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

To be fair with Ridley all people knew about him was his shadow, nothing else was confirmed which is why people pulled so many straws due to the amount of ambiguity he was given by Sakurai.

Yeah, that was such a tease. It seems obvious in hindsight but it's funny what hope can to people.

 

[ThyCheshireCat]

Same with this fs deal or the playable AT idea i saw.

This time we have PHYSICAL EVIDENCE that this can happen, Fox and Falco ei each other's FSs, Samus in ZSS's FS. Ridley was assumptions and these are educated guesses, i wouldn't say it's definitely going to happen but don't rule it out.

 

[NintenZ]

Same with this fs deal or the playable AT idea i saw.

The Assist Trophy thing I understand, for FS characters it’s literally been proven that they can appear in two places as once. Doesn’t mean it will affect anything, it was just something to keep in mind. I doubt Ridley would have been able to appear as a playable character and a boss because of the massive amounts of downscaling and management it would require compared to his appearance as a boss, which at the time just made more sense to Sakurai.

 

[drag0nscythe]

This time we have PHYSICAL EVIDENCE that this can happen, Fox and Falco ei each other's FSs, Samus in ZSS's FS. Ridley was assumptions and these are educated guesses.

We had evidence in those days also. I do not see them showing off models before hand just to tease. We were only really teased ridley near the end and it was in the boss section of the direct.

Grasping straws here.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Impa is my other guess at most likely echo fighter.

legit the only two echos i think will happen when i make prediction rosters are chrom and impa.

I kind of expect more than 2 new Echo fighters, but this is good thinking regardless!

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

I've said it before and I'll say it again.

While nobody is saying it's likely to happen, a character appearing in another character's final smash is effectively a disconfirmation of playable status. I get what the purpose of pointing out that Zero Suit Samus puts on her power suit in her final Smash, but the entire thing with Zero Suit Samus is that you can literally have Zero Suit Samus fight Samus. It's been that way since Wii U, and this is a veteran fighter we're talking about.

I also wouldn't really understand the strategy of Sakurai explicitly stating, "This character is a part of a final smash/assist trophy/stage element"...and then six months later saying, "Look! We also made them playable!"

I don't really see the logic in that. Ultimately (heh), programming a character for more than one role is a waste of time and resources. If say, Kumatora were planned as playable, why wouldn't they pick a different party member for the final Smash with Lucas?

I get the argument that they're not "100% disconfirmed as playable". But it doesn't take much critical thought to assume otherwise. You're setting yourself up for disappointment, in my honest opinion, if you think Fiora, Waluigi, Kumatora, K.K. Slider, Tom Nook, and several others are anywhere near likely. Logic dictates they wouldn't be.

If Sakurai decides to add one of them as playable, I'd be incredibly surprised, confused, but not mad. I just don't know that it would make much sense for some of these characters to be developed for two different things when they could just do one or the other, especially when these developers are bringing back nearly every stage and character in the series. Why would they waste time in putting in characters for two different things like that?

 

[TMNTSSB4]

What we really need is another Pit echo...and an echo for Little Mac (Mike Tyson)

 

[ThyCheshireCat]

We had evidence in those days also. I do not see them showing off models before hand just to tease. We were only really teased ridley near the end and it was in the boss section of the direct.

Grasping straws here.

No we didn't, a random shadow is not evidence of ANYTHING , we didn't have other random shadows on stage that ended up being characters did we... i think you HEAVILY misinterpret what good evidence is...

 

[CaptainAmerica]

So guys, another question. I want you to recommend me some Switch games.

Right now, am having a BLAST with Breath of the Wild, Tropical Freeze and Hyrule Warriors. But am looking for more. Cause eventually I will finish both BOTW and TF and HW alone cannot fulfill all my gaming needs on the Switch. Is there any game besides Oddysey that's as huge as these games that I missed out on? I exclude Odyssey for now because I know I cannot enjoy it as much as I did enjoy Mario 64 and Galaxy 1, so that'll hurt my overall experience.. but am open for any other suggestion.

Well, HW will definitely let you grind for a while, that's for sure.

I'm always a big fan of Skyrim, even though it is starting to show its age a bit. BotW did feel very western-RPG - I enjoyed it a lot more because of the similarities. Plus it's another one of those that you'll pay for a few hundred hours and then realize you still haven't finished the main quest.

I haven't played Odyssey myself, but I've watched my cousins play it and it does look incredible, though. I'm just terrible with platformers in general.

I know I'm holding on for Pokémon Let's Go though. A full re imagining of Yellow on console? Yes please!

 

[NintenZ]

We had evidence in those days also.

To be frank I don’t recall any other playable characters appearing in other character’s Final Smashes in Brawl or Smash 4, so far this is a new thing. And in hindsight Ridley being a boss was fairly obvious from the start, it was just HOW they revealed him that confused people.

 

[drag0nscythe]

What we really need is another Pit echo...and an echo for Little Mac (Mike Tyson)

I really want doc lewis as an echo.

 

[Deleted member]

This means inaccurate portrayals are given the ok by the people in charge. Now I must yell at Miyamoto about Bowser being portrayed as more intimidating than goofy

And Aonuma for preventing having his Dead Man Volley.

And making right-hande-- wait.

 

[MBRedboy31]

Just wondering, but, in a technical aspect, how much is it possible to adjust the proportions of a model + skeleton and still have the animations work out; does that work at all in Smash’s engine, or no? (Don’t Mii Fighters of different sizes do that, actually?)

If so, Buizel as a Pikachu clone? They have basically the same anatomy, just different proportions.

 

[NintenZ]

Just wondering, but, in a technical aspect, how much is it possible to adjust the proportions of a model + skeleton and still have the animations work out; does that work at all in Smash’s engine, or no? (Don’t Mii Fighters of different sizes do that, actually?)

If so, Buizel as a Pikachu clone? They have basically the same anatomy, just different proportions.

I believe so, that’s what they do for some clones and semi-clones I think to reduce the workload on certain characters.

 

[ChronoBound]

Chrom isn't getting in. The biggest complaint about FE is that they're all swordsman he isn't going to add another one

Chrom is probably the single most likely FE character for Ultimate at this point (although that does not say much). He will likely be an echo (probably of Ike). Like daughter, like father. I think Chrom did well on the ballot, which is why he got a Mii costume, and Sakurai would probably like the idea of having the entire trio of the Awakening main characters being playable. Chrom is very lucky to "have his chance another day". Most now or never characters fare far worse (see Isaac who outright had his Assist Trophy removed from Smash 4). By the time Ultimate releases, Awakening will be nearly seven years old. If Chrom does get in, it will be the equivalent of them having gone with Micaiah as their Fire Emblem newcomer for Smash 4 instead of any Awakening character.

 

[drag0nscythe]

To be frank I don’t recall any other playable characters appearing in other character’s Final Smashes in Brawl or Smash 4, so far this is a new thing. And in hindsight Ridley being a boss was fairly obvious from the start, it was just HOW they revealed him that confused people.

It was obvious at the time. People were in denial. Myself included.

And they are making fs more cinematic.

I need something that is proof. Already playable characters is not enough. Why is Jeff not in ness fs and is just still an AT. From rhat. Most if not all still have a single use.

 

[Deleted member]

It was obvious at the time. People were in denial. Myself included.

And they are making fs more cinematic.

I need something that is proof. Already playable characters is not enough. Why is Jeff not in ness fs and is just still an AT. From rhat. Most if not all still have a single use.

To be fair, Riki is both an AT and in Shulk's FS.
Though I don't think that would apply for playable characters.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

I really want doc lewis as an echo.

That would be beautiful

 

[Murlough]

Pikachu Libre originated in ORAS not Pokken. Also the roster was made almost 2 years before Decidueye was added to Pokken.

Thank you as a Pokemon fan I had no idea that Libre was in ORAS. Truly.

He didn't randomly select Libre out of the multiple options from ORAS just 'cause. He picked Libre because Pokken popularized it. Honestly, some of the posts people "like" on here. >.>

He could have decided to use Decidueye earlier and then looked to Pokken later to get a few ideas. I wasn't speaking in definates for Decidueye but Pokken is something worth thinking about when he comes up BECAUSE Libre proves that Sakurai has noted the game.

That is not me saying Decidueye confirmed. I don't understand how this is hard to follow.

 

[NintenZ]

Why is Jeff not in ness fs and is just still an AT.

I mean if we’re gonna go with that Riki is an Assist Trophy and in Shulk’s Final Smash.

(In fact I tested it a while ago in training mode and the Assist Trophy outright disappears when the Final Smash is activated)

 

[ThyCheshireCat]

It was obvious at the time. People were in denial. Myself included.

And they are making fs more cinematic.

I need something that is proof. Already playable characters is not enough. Why is Jeff not in ness fs and is just still an AT. From rhat. Most if not all still have a single use.

Considering Riki is both an AT and in a FS i find your Jeff argument invalid TBH.

 

[drag0nscythe]

To be fair, Riki is both an AT and in Shulk's FS.
Though I don't think that would apply for playable characters.

That is a valid example. I still do not see it for playable characters.

Like i said ridley all over again.

 

[NintenZ]

It is an example. I still do not see it for playable characters.

Even though as we said it’s already the same for playable characters...

See where the argument falls apart here. (For those wondering I’m not just referring to newcomers but playable characters in general)

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Are we trying to argue characters who appear as NPCs get to be playable characters alongside being NPCs? I'm genuinely confused

 

[drag0nscythe]

Even though as we said it’s already the same for playable characters...

See where the argument falls apart here. (For those wondering I’m not just referring to newcomers but playable characters in general)

Afain, they would not show off the models or assets before announcing the character.

 

[ThyCheshireCat]

Afain, they would not show off the models or assets before announcing the character.

Are you forgetting the whole rob thing.

You're being so sceptical that you're not even acknowledging any points we make aside from the one your replying to, ok the ROB thing wasn't directed at you but you must've seen it.

 

[NintenZ]

Are we trying to argue characters who appear as NPCs get to be playable characters alongside being NPCs? I'm genuinely confused

No, the whole debate was about how since Falco and Samus appear in Fox and Zero Suit Samus’s Final Smashes, it’s being debated on whether or not being in a Final Smash counts as a hardcore disconfirmation.

Afain, they would not show off the models or assets before announcing the character.

They already did that with Luigi in Melee and ROB in Brawl so that’s not exactly true. In fact in Melee Sakurai straight up deconfirmed Luigi before he was eventually confirmed later on.

 

[drag0nscythe]

Are you forgetting the whole rob thing.

You're being so sceptical that you're not even acknowledging any points we make aside from the one your replying to, ok the ROB thing wasn't directed at you but you must've seen it.

For story mode. In cinematics. We did not see ridley untill his purpose. As with all other playable characters. We did not see playable rob until his time.