Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Scoliosis Jones]

Something I've been thinking about, as I'm not entirely certain about how 3rd party negotiations go with Smash...I've discussed it with Thirdkoopa before but we never really came to a clear conclusion.

With the recent news that the Ballot results weren't really taken into consideration for playable characters, it raised a number of questions. Certain people questioned the placement of Bayonetta as the "number 1 voted character" among other things.

Here's what I'm thinking about though...what about some of the Mii Costumes?

Some characters that I would argue may have placed well in the ballot to some extent were added as Mii Costumes. King K.Rool, Chrom, Lloyd Irving, Ashley, and a few other characters received Mii Fighter outfits. Monster Hunter, Geno, and a few others (including Lloyd actually) came from other companies.

If the project plan for DLC was already in place, that would mean no additional playable characters were planned. It could be a long shot, but I think it's possible that the Mii Fighter costumes may give us some ideas of what information was taken from the Ballot, and simply wasn't made playable because of the project plan. Take this with a rather generous grain of salt, as I frankly have nothing to back this up with.

In terms of the 3rd party costumes...that would be Geno, Lloyd Irving Heihachi, Virtua Fighter characters, Monster Hunter, and the Mega Men, I question how the contract for usage works. Are the terms limited to, "This contract gives Nintendo the use of licensing for the following characters and their likeness..." Does that determine that it's only for Mii Fighters? Does that mean it doesn't matter how the likeness is used in-game (besides the obvious, don't do something damaging/lewd/inappropriate). I have a lot of questions about this particular function of the properties.

Well, here's my point. If the possession of the license to use Geno, for example, is simply to use the license for an unspecific purpose, does that mean Sakurai could hypothetically work with the 3rd party licenses he already has. This would put Geno, Heihachi, Lloyd, and a few others closer to being picked, if that has any truth to it.

I would think there would be specific terms in the contract, but I'm not sure how it's written. I just think that if the Mii Fighter costumes were taken from data in regard to the ballot, it could reflect what we see in the future.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Even though as we said it’s already the same for playable characters...

See where the argument falls apart here. (For those wondering I’m not just referring to newcomers but playable characters in general)

Even though as we said it’s already the same for playable characters...

See where the argument falls apart here. (For those wondering I’m not just referring to newcomers but playable characters in general)

Wait is this some conspiracy theory level bull****? Because the only time it happened for playable characters are Toon Link, a veteran, and Dedede, who had yet to make a playable appearance in the franchise when the stage cameo was first put in

Are you forgetting the whole rob thing.

You're being so sceptical that you're not even acknowledging any points we make aside from the one your replying to, ok the ROB thing wasn't directed at you but you must've seen it.

ROB was included as a "what the ****" character, something nobody would see coming, so if you're going to argue NPC characters getting promoted to being playable yet keeping NPC roles, the comparison needs to have equally "What the ****" tier characters. They're not going to deliberately hide a playable character under everyone's noses

No, the whole debate was about how since Falco and Samus appear in Fox and Zero Suit Samus’s Final Smashes, it’s being debated on whether or not being in a Final Smash counts as a hardcore disconfirmation.

They already did that with Luigi in Melee and ROB in Brawl so that’s not exactly true. In fact in Melee Sakurai straight up deconfirmed Luigi before he was eventually confirmed later on.

That's dumb as hell, again, they aren't going to deliberately hide **** from you in plain sight.

What happened to Luigi then? Regardless it doesn't matter as he's another veteran/not a WTF pick

 

[Impa4Smash]

So guys, another question. I want you to recommend me some Switch games.

Right now, am having a BLAST with Breath of the Wild, Tropical Freeze and Hyrule Warriors. But am looking for more. Cause eventually I will finish both BOTW and TF and HW alone cannot fulfill all my gaming needs on the Switch. Is there any game besides Oddysey that's as huge as these games that I missed out on? I exclude Odyssey for now because I know I cannot enjoy it as much as I did enjoy Mario 64 and Galaxy 1, so that'll hurt my overall experience.. but am open for any other suggestion.

If you like HW and FE in general, you should give FE Warriors a try. It’s not quite as good as HW, and some of the writing is quite cheesy, but it plays much differently and the gameplay is still very fun, with just as much fan service as you’d expect. Though only expect characters from Awakening, Fates, and Shadow Dragon (and then Celica and Lyn).

And as someone who grew up on Mario 64, then got Sunshine, Galaxy 1 & 2 when they were released - Odyssey is SO good. Like probably 2nd only to 64.

Besides those and the games you already have, I’d say maybe Bayonetta (amazingly good hack n slash with great replay value, and includes 1 & 2) or Crash Bandicoot (3 platformer games for less than the price of 1)

 

[drag0nscythe]

Responding on phones suck. We will be going in circles soon. So i feel it is time to change subject. We will not agree. Like ridley in smash wii u, all signs are pointing against.

I want goemon. Really really want him. Even as an at. Just want to see him again.

 

[NintenZ]

That's dumb as hell, again, they aren't going to deliberately hide **** from you in plain sight.

What happened to Luigi then? Regardless it doesn't matter as he's another veteran/not a WTF pick

What happened to Luigi was that Sakurai posted this on the Melee Dojo:
“There are various images shown here, but please do not mistake them as playable characters.

We sent him a Smash invitation too, but he was away on a trip to the mansion…”
For many this was taken as a basic deconfirmation that Luigi wasn’t going to be playable since the whole concept of Trophies happened and he said not to mistake them as playable characters... But he ended up making the final roster.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

The fact that you could get an infinite amount of them through breeding made it a big old question mark to a lot of people. Plus, like I said, GameFreak themselves went back and forth on the issue, sometimes classifying it as a mythical, and other times acting as though it was straight-up non-legendary in general.

Another problem that Phione has is that the battle facilities do not allow you to use it, even if its status as a legendary or mythical Pokemon has been disputed for a long time.

In a similar manner, Cosmog and Cosmoem are banned, despite being pretty much useless in battles.

 

[Mega Bidoof]

What happened to Luigi was that Sakurai posted this on the Melee Dojo:
“There are various images shown here, but please do not mistake them as playable characters.
View attachment 153099
We sent him a Smash invitation too, but he was away on a trip to the mansion…”
For many this was taken as a basic deconfirmation that Luigi wasn’t going to be playable since the whole concept of Trophies happened... But he ended up making the final roster.

Huh, that makes me wonder if Luigi was a later addition to Melee, and that they might have not been afraid to cut some of the original 12. Actually yeah, I think Sakurai said he would’ve replaced Ness with Lucas in Melee had Earthbound 64 not been scrapped.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

What happened to Luigi was that Sakurai posted this on the Melee Dojo:
“There are various images shown here, but please do not mistake them as playable characters.
View attachment 153099
We sent him a Smash invitation too, but he was away on a trip to the mansion…”
For many this was taken as a basic deconfirmation that Luigi wasn’t going to be playable since the whole concept of Trophies happened and he said not to mistake them as playable characters... But he ended up making the final roster.

Luigi didn't debut in Melee though. Your argument is that they're hiding brand new characters in plain sight who people would actually want to see

 

[Deleted member]

I think I'm gonna take a break from this thread until we get some actual news.
I feel like I'm wasting my time by being active here 24/7.

 

[ThyCheshireCat]

Luigi didn't debut in Melee though. Your argument is that they're hiding brand new characters in plain sight who people would actually want to see

I don't see how an unconfirmed veteran and an unconfirmed new character makes a deference when in both cases we didn't know if they'd be playable or not.

 

[Idon]

I think I'm gonna take a break from this thread until we get some actual news.
I feel like I'm wasting my time by being active here 24/7.

I'm pretty sure all forums are meaningless timesinks, lol.

Like I just spent HOURS making a moveset for a character, only I KNOW ABOUT.
And I haven't even made a character support thread to begin with.

 

[Arcanir]

Thank you as a Pokemon fan I had no idea that Libre was in ORAS. Truly.

He didn't randomly select Libre out of the multiple options from ORAS just 'cause. He picked Libre because Pokken popularized it. Honestly, some of the posts people "like" on here. >.>

He could have decided to use Decidueye earlier and then looked to Pokken later to get a few ideas. I wasn't speaking in definates for Decidueye but Pokken is something worth thinking about when he comes up BECAUSE Libre proves that Sakurai has noted the game.

That is not me saying Decidueye confirmed. I don't understand how this is hard to follow.

The problem with the Pokken example is that Pikachu Libre was added to the initial release of the game and was revealed in July 2015 (which, to compare to Smash development, was during Smash 4's DLC period). Decideye wasn't added until DX, which came out two years later in 2017.

Sakurai could've easily have taken influence from the original game and not the latter, both are not in the same exact situation.

 

[Deleted member]

I'm pretty sure all forums are meaningless timesinks, lol.

Like I just spent HOURS making a moveset for a character, only I KNOW ABOUT.
And I haven't even made a character support thread to begin with.

I was planning on making more movesets as well... but sometimes it's a bit hard to do.
The only characters I've made full movesets for are Kirby characters, which are probably the easiest characters to make a moveset for. I also have an unfinished moveset for Decidueye that I can't be bothered to finish.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I don't see how an unconfirmed veteran and an unconfirmed new character makes a deference when in both cases we didn't know if they'd be playable or not.

One was already playable before as a secret character you had to unlock and is a popular characters to boot. The other isn't a character but rather a literal toy. A toy. Just a plastic thing with no personality. No fan demand. No action-y thing. Just a toy. Why would they hide a newcomer with actual fans, being an actual character and everything? I thought I'm taking the lack of Kamen Rider Zi-O info badly but christ, have we learned NOTHING from Smash 4?

 

[NintenZ]

Huh, that makes me wonder if Luigi was a later addition to Melee, and that they might have not been afraid to cut some of the original 12. Actually yeah, I think Sakurai said he would’ve replaced Ness with Lucas in Melee had Earthbound 64 not been scrapped.

I feel he wasn’t too much of a priority, him and Jigglypuff aren’t even starters like the other original 12 and his moveset is still pretty close to Mario so I don’t think he was on the top of Sakurai’s radar.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I was thinking about ’s new Final Smash, and out of curiosity, what would happen if she used it while regular Samus was on the field...?

 

[NintenZ]

I was thinking about ’s new Final Smash, and out of curiosity, what would happen if she used it while regular Samus was on the field...?

That’s actually a really good question, maybe she just won’t wear the suit when Samus is on the Battlefield? No idea since we haven’t had a situation like this tho.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

That was some prime bait and switch material there.

And gave us the false impression that there'd be a variety of Nintendo enemies when all we got was ROB squad, Bowser's goons and the Heartless.

Primids are good and all but where's the sense of crossover? You spend a level pursuing King DDD and he never sends his minions to slow you down? They're in story enough to rob Wario blind.

Incidentally, the writer for SSE was involved with Kingdom Hearts, so...

According to files in the game you would have fought various Kirby enemies like Waddle Dees, Waddle Doos, and even Bonkers, but for unknown reasons it got scrapped, likely because of time constraints

Wouldn't you know it, all of those eventually showed up in Smash 4. Thanks Sonic.

I think I'm gonna take a break from this thread until we get some actual news.
I feel like I'm wasting my time by being active here 24/7.

That might take a few months though.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I was thinking about ’s new Final Smash, and out of curiosity, what would happen if she used it while regular Samus was on the field...?

It takes a colour not used by regular Samus? Sounds easy enough to do as you'll have at least 1 spare colour

 

[Rie Sonomura]

That might take a few months though.

Didn’t a couple of leaks posted by DaybreakHorizon have “killswitch” dates, particularly a few on the 22nd? Let’s see what happens then, juuuuuuuust in case.

 

[Deleted member]

That might take a few months though.

Good point
Well then, I'll be back in at least one month if we don't get more news.

 

[ThyCheshireCat]

It takes a colour not used by regular Samus? Sounds easy enough to do as you'll have at least 1 spare colour

(Just going to use this to help with the original argument, as you've kinda helped me on my own points inadvertently, the whole ROB stuff i don't even think is relevant BTW)
What's going to stop Chrom or Kumatora changing palette if they're both being played and in the FS? (if they're added)

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Didn’t a couple of leaks posted by DaybreakHorizon have “killswitch” dates, particularly a few on the 22nd? Let’s see what happens then, juuuuuuuust in case.

Very true. Still only cautiously optimistic though, seeing as Bill and Nate implied that reveals would only happen near the release date.

 

[Demonfunds]

Very true. Still only cautiously optimistic though, seeing as Bill and Nate implied that reveals would only happen near the release date.

Where did they say that? May I have a link?

 

[BluePikmin11]

I do not think Chrom will be an echo. I think he will be part of Robin's Final Smash again. I think Sakurai's thoughts on Fire Emblem overrepresentation with Corrin will carry on with Smash Ultimate's project plan. I do not think he will be considering unique fighters nor echoes from the franchise again, at least for the base game.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Very true. Still only cautiously optimistic though, seeing as Bill and Nate implied that reveals would only happen near the release date.

Got a link to the interview? I think I missed it

 

[Cutie Gwen]

(Just going to use this to help with the original argument, as you've kinda helped me on my own points inadvertently, the whole ROB stuff i don't even think is relevant BTW)
What's going to stop Chrom or Kumatora changing palette if they're both being played and in the FS? (if they're added)

I think you're misinterpretting my point. My point isn't "They're having an interactive role as an NPC so they can't be playable". It's "With a limited roster judging by how Sakurai said he hopes we don't expect too many new challengers, why bother hiding them in plain sight like that? It's never happened to a new character people actually cared about and Sakurai isn't some random loon actively trying to mislead people, it's giving yourself false hope to expect that because you're starving for info despite having a ridonkulously large info dump"

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Where did they say that? May I have a link?

Got a link to the interview? I think I missed it

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/20...with_nintendos_bill_trinen_and_nate_bihldorff

Are there plans to either announce characters between now and December or is the finalized, complete roster? Can we expect to see more at a later date?

Trinen: We can answer that when we get closer to December.

Edit: I acknowledge that "closer" can mean a lot of things, but we still have no concrete idea of when this will happen.

 

[EchoAegis]

I think this quote from the interview is very interesting

A lot of people complain that a lot of characters that are still out there, they will complain about those, it doesn't mean that they will make it. I think Mr. Sakurai hears it, but then I think he just muffles it out and puts in the characters that he wants to put in. I mean he clearly listens to the community. I mean, you heard him speak at the tournament. I think he knew that the scene would be psyched that Ridley got in, but I don't think that it was the matter of, "oh, the way this reached its breaking point, it's time to put in Ridley before this collapses on top of itself."

Idk why but i don't think we're getting King K Rool in this game.

don't hate me pls

 

[Cutie Gwen]

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/20...with_nintendos_bill_trinen_and_nate_bihldorff

That's basically PR speak for "Stay tuned", no way is Bill in a position to say "Yeah we're still going to reveal more characters" or "Nope. This is it"

 

[zeldasmash]

I was thinking about ’s new Final Smash, and out of curiosity, what would happen if she used it while regular Samus was on the field...?

It'd be cool if she could use the Fusion Suit in it's place, but I don't think it's as strong as the Varia Suit.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/20...with_nintendos_bill_trinen_and_nate_bihldorff


Edit: I acknowledge that "closer" can mean a lot of things, but we still have no concrete idea of when this will happen.

I think the “closer to December” thing was hinting at a general information blowout like the 100-facts special for Smash 4, which would include some reveals. But some would still happen before, of course.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

That's basically PR speak for "Stay tuned", no way is Bill in a position to say "Yeah we're still going to reveal more characters" or "Nope. This is it"

I know they're not in the liberty of outright saying crucial info, I'm just saying that reveals might not be closer than we think.

At least we can make fun of Bill championing "fat Ice Hockey guy" in the meantime.

I think the “closer to December” thing was hinting at a general information blowout like the 100-facts special for Smash 4, which would include some reveals. But some would still happen before, of course.

I'd be fine with this though. In any case, we'll see if anything happens at all by this month's end.

 

[ThyCheshireCat]

I think you're misinterpretting my point. My point isn't "They're having an interactive role as an NPC so they can't be playable". It's "With a limited roster judging by how Sakurai said he hopes we don't expect too many new challengers, why bother hiding them in plain sight like that? It's never happened to a new character people actually cared about and Sakurai isn't some random loon actively trying to mislead people, it's giving yourself false hope to expect that because you're starving for info despite having a ridonkulously large info dump"

And i was never trying to argue against the second point, I understand that Sakurai may not want to mislead the fans, but he never outright said they're not going to be playable, infect he said it in the exact same way as he did with the Samus in ZSS thing just 'oh they are here', does that mean they're going to happen for sure.... of course not, we don't have evidence of it being definitive, but it also does not completely deny the characters from being playable in the game. Oh and BTW this is just harmless speculation, that last part of your comment that i bolded out makes it seem like it's near malicious pestering but i'm not one of those few extremist twitter Waluigi people who just want "GIVE MEH WAWEEGEE INFO NAO U DID 19/1" all i am doing is theorising on something that COULD (not necessarily will but COULD) happen.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

And i was never trying to argue against the second point, I understand that Sakurai may not want to mislead the fans, but he never outright said they're not going to be playable, infect he said it in the exact same way as he did with the Samus in ZSS thing just 'oh they are here', does that mean they're going to happen for sure.... of course not, we don't have evidence of it being definitive, but it also does not completely deny the characters from being playable in the game. Oh and BTW this is just harmless speculation, that last part of your comment that i bolded out makes it seem like it's near malicious pestering but i'm not one of those Waluigi people who just want "GIVE MEH WAWEEGEE INFO NAO" all i am doing is theorising on something that COULD (not will) happen.

And do you remember what happened when he did that little gag for Zero Suit in 4? He immediately went "Just kidding". Like at the beginning of the presentation. This isn't 'harmless speculation' it's harmless conspiracy theorizing.

I'm saying that because we know so much and you and Nintenzilla are seemingly deadset on this being a thing, it's just tiring

 

[Murlough]

The problem with the Pokken example is that Pikachu Libre was added in the initial release of the game, which came out in July 2015 (which, to compare to Smash development, was during Smash 4's DLC period). Decideye wasn't added until DX, which came out two years later in 2017.

Sakurai could've easily have taken influence from the original game and not the latter, both are not in the same exact situation.

I understand that........I don't even remember why I brought it up at this point. Whatever, I give up.

I can't go any further since I'll be going into "muh theory" territory and I sure would hate to SPECULATE about what will come of this game.

The people in this thread complain about the dumbest **** sometimes. Might as well close the thread if "what ifs" are considered a silly thing to talk about.

Guess we'll keep talking about leaks made by bored 10 year olds, as if thats productive. >.>

 

[NintenZ]

I’m not really deadset on it being a thing that could happen to be honest, I just didn’t think it should be ruled out (Personally I think it would be more likely for DLC than for the actual gamel due to the smaller numbers of the base roster).

I’ve moved on for the most part, i’m ready to discuss something else.

 

[ThyCheshireCat]

I'm saying that because we know so much and you and Nintenzilla are seemingly deadset on this being a thing, it's just tiring

Ok then so we can't talk about something that we personally believe could but might not happen just because someone else for sure doesn't believe in it, i'm not deadset on it, i legitimately said "does that mean they're going to happen for sure.... of course not, we don't have evidence of it being definitive" does that mean i'm deadset, of course it doesn't... but yea i'm ready to discuss something else, this has gone on for way too god damn long.
To avoid anything like this in the future, ACTUALLY LET PEOPLE DISCUSS WHAT THEY WANT, have i murdered your pet dog or something just by saying that i beleive there's a small chance Kumatora is still playable?

 

[Deleted member]

I’m not really deadset on it being a thing that could happen to be honest, I just didn’t think it should be ruled out (Personally I think it would be more likely for DLC than for the actual game).

I’ve moved on for the most part, i’m ready to discuss something else.

Let's discuss how Ashley and Bandana Dee are objectively the best Smash newcomer options and how Bomberman being an AT is an unforgivable offense that makes the game literally unplayable.

In all seriousness, what do people here think the chances of getting more Final Fantasy music in game are? I'm pretty positive we'll at least get a remix or two this go around myself.

 

[Pakky]

Wait Pikachu Libre isn't solely a Pokken character