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Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

Almost one month has passed since release. In retrospect....

  • This is by far the best Smash ever. Like, I don't even know how they will top this.

  • Pretty freakin' good; I have a few qualms over things like internet play, balancing issues, etc.

  • It's ok, but [insert Smash game here] is better.

  • I'd rather play Parcheesi.


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Cosmic77

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At this rate, I feel like the E3 build should've revealed Mimikyu and Lycanroc as Poke Ball Pokemon. Being absent from the E3 build pretty much adds more fuel to a fire that just wants to keep going.
You're being too critical with these two. Even if they don't end up being playable, their fans still enjoy taking part in the speculation.

If getting an eventual confirmation is the only thing that matters, then maybe Sakurai should kill speculation altogether and show us a giant list of every character who won't be playable.
 

ThyCheshireCat

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Hey guys remember when Toon Link got deconfirmed in Smash 3DS?
View attachment 153053
Yeah was sad when he couldn’t be in the game, or when King Dedede got deconfirmed in Smash 4 DLC?
View attachment 153054
Yeah I was sad that we couldn’t play as him, what’s worse is that Falco got deconfirmed cause he’s in Fox’s Final Smash:
View attachment 153055
And now Samus is deconfirmed because she appears in Zero Suit Samus’s Final Smash, what a loss:
View attachment 153056
Okay but in all seriousness I think we’ve been looking too broad at character deconfirmations, expect the unexpected.
So what you're saying is that Kumatora ISN'T deconfirmed (she's in Lucas' Final Smash).... damn i never thought i'd see the day when i could say an earthbound character has a decent shot at being added. (with the model and all that goodness.) You've just made my day. (next thing you know Marx will be confirmed and Brinstar Depths is back)
 

osby

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So what you're saying is that Kumatora ISN'T deconfirmed (she's in Lucas' Final Smash).... damn i never thought i'd see the day when i could say an earthbound character has a decent shot at being added. (with the model and all that goodness.) You've just made my day. (next thing you know Marx will be confirmed and Brinstar Depths is back)
Two EB characters had a semi decent chance of getting added and they were added.
 

ThyCheshireCat

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Two EB characters had a semi decent chance of getting added and they were added.
That was when they were relevent, but now the whole series is finished and won't be relevent until one's possibly remade! :b: And yet Kumatora's now somehow on my predictions list. (Paula and Poo are also possible due to this but i have bias.)
 
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Spinosaurus

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Also apparently in a an interview with a Ubisoft guy on Mario x Rabbids DLC, there is some kind of DK team within Nintendo that basically handle the IP.

They're basically OK with DK's representation then. perhaps also gatekeeping a certain character recently.
 

Wambo

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Also apparently in a an interview with a Ubisoft guy on Mario x Rabbids DLC, there is some kind of DK team within Nintendo that basically handle the IP.

They're basically OK with DK's representation then. perhaps also gatekeeping a certain character recently.
It pisses me off how some groups at Nintendo basically ignore free money and fan demand.
 

EchoAegis

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This means inaccurate portrayals are given the ok by the people in charge. Now I must yell at Miyamoto about Bowser being portrayed as more intimidating than goofy
Tbh Miyamoto needs to stay away from Nintendo games he's past it now. Only does damage to them now.
 

MasterOfKnees

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Hey guys remember when Toon Link got deconfirmed in Smash 3DS?
View attachment 153053
Yeah was sad when he couldn’t be in the game, or when King Dedede got deconfirmed in Smash 4 DLC?
View attachment 153054
Yeah I was sad that we couldn’t play as him, what’s worse is that Falco got deconfirmed cause he’s in Fox’s Final Smash:
View attachment 153055
And now Samus is deconfirmed because she appears in Zero Suit Samus’s Final Smash, what a loss:
View attachment 153056
Okay but in all seriousness I think we’ve been looking too broad at character deconfirmations, expect the unexpected.
I do get the point, but the only one out of these that is really notable is the Spirit Tracks Toon Link one as it was shown before Toon Link was, and the Dedede in Dreamland hardly counts as it was a stage from 64. It is best to just assume the worst with character deconfirmations, there's a much higher chance that you end up in a Ridley's shadow situation than an Alfonzo one.
 
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NintenZ

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I do get the point, but the only one out of these that is really notable is the Spirit Tracks Toon Link one as it was shown before Toon Link was, and the Dedede in Dreamland hardly counts as it was a stage from 64. It is best to just assume the worst with character deconfirmations, there's a much higher chance that you end up in a Ridley's shadow situation than an Alfonzo one.
Good point, but my point was that it’s been proven that characters can appear in multiple places without interference and that should be taken into account while speculating.
 
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TMNTSSB4

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RIDLEY: Ridley's animations in Smash are deliberately made to show his cruel and violent nature while showing off his personality, as Ridley's VERY flat if you miss the subtle details in the Metroid games, almost every move this guy has makes you think "Oh my god this guy is a vicious monster". His character trailer had him disturbingly crush Mario's head and toy with his hat, showing his sadistic sense of humour and the last we see of him in the trailer is menacingly clasp his hands together while pulling off a terrifying smile before realizing Samus isn't dead yet. I can only speculate on this part but Sakurai seems to have deliberately done this amazing characterization of Ridley not just to please his fans but to grt his personality across better than any other Metroid game had, as his trophy descriptions always mention that he looks like a mindless beast but is actually intelligent. Ridley's extra emotional range makes him so much more fleshed out and menacing. Why is this important? BECAUSE RIDLEY'S PAGE ON THE SMASH SITE SHOWS SUCH A GOOFY ****ING PICTURE OF RIDLEY WITH THE HAMMER. I'm not complaining but it show item animations are MEANT to be awkward or goofy as hell so saying that a character can't work because "Item awkward hnnnnnnngh" is the laziest **** I've seen in a long time and I haven't touched my PS3 in a week because I'm too lazy to fight The End in MGS3 and too lazy to mess with the system settings so I don't have to wait an actual week
Tbf with Ridley, the hammer is really there to show how drop dead (like :ultmegaman: or the parents of :ultsamus:) gorgeous he is
 

osby

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Tbf with Ridley, the hammer is really there to show how drop dead (like :ultmegaman: or the parents of :ultsamus:) gorgeous he is
Ridley can't be gorgeous as :ultwiifittrainer:, no matter how much he tries, so he might as well stop and give the hammer someone worthy.
 

Smashoperatingbuddy123

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Such confidence.

All four have their pros and cons so let us go over them shall we, and because everyone keeps talking about them let’s go over them so everyone can stop dissing on my favorite.

PROMINENCE:

Decidueye unfortunatley doesn’t have this as it is no where to be found in any source of media or is important in neither the anime or the movie, or doesn’t even have a lot of merchandise compared to other popular Gen 7 Pokémon aside of it getting your starter treatment. All it got was being playable in Pokken, and it was never touched again.

Mimikyu is pretty obvious, it’s THE most popular generation 7 pokemon. So it has lots of advertising and merchandising, etc. Although Mimikyu doesn’t seem to have major roles in the anime and wasn’t in the movie.

Incineroar shines here, it’s this generation’s pushed Starter. It was main Pokémon in the movie and is beginning to have larger role in the anime. It’s safe to say that TPC has been pushing Incineroar over time and has become one of this generation’s flagship Pokémon.

Lycanroc also shines here. But since everyone says that nothing happened with Lycanroc before it’s Dusk form was revealed, let’s do a recap. Lycanroc has been pushed from THE VERY START when it’s Midday and Midnight forms were first revealed. The Rockruff line has been heavily pushed ever since then in 2016, with PTC sets, merchandising, and they even appeared in the anime along with the movie. The Rockruff line was getting pushed on par with the starter lines before Dusk appeared, and over time has become one of this generations flagship/Lucario-esk pokemon of this era. So even if Dusk wasn’t around, Midday and Midnight were a big deal when this game’s Pokémon newcomer was decided on.

Being promoted by TPC is a pretty big factor as it can indicate which Pokémon might’ve been chosen in Smash and who are more likely to have been suggested. Mimikyu, Incineroar, and Lycanroc win with this one. While Decidueye is having a hard time.

UNIQUENESS:

Decidueye is an obvious seller here. It has a very unique design and concept of it being a ghost starter with many possibilities for move sets. Grass, Flying, Ghost, Archery, Decidueye has it all to stand out from the rest of the cast and with it’s very eye catching design may allow Sakurai to select it for it’s unique potential.

Mimikyu is a 50/50. By being a ghost type character, a lot of potential utilizing many different supernatural moves that can easily have it stand out along with it’s disguise ability and eye catching design. However, the design may be difficult to implement, and with it’s whole concept of looking like Pikachu and with already Pikachu and Pichu on the roster, I can also see it as reason for Sakurai not picking Mimikyu and making it a pokeball instead.

Incineroar is more of 75/25. It can easily stand out using wrestling moves and attacks and it has a unique design to go with it as well. However, it SORT OF rehashes fire based moves and grappler archetypes that the rest of the cast shares as well, albeit he can have many unique movesets with his moves available, he does blend in with some of the other characters in the cast.

Lycanroc is another 75/25 situation. All of the forms design are a lot more simpler designs compared to the other Pokémon which isn’t as catching as all the others. Lycanroc does have a lot of ways to be unique from the rest of the cast. With a wide range of earth based abilities, different forms, and Dusk’s power boost, Lycanroc can easily have a moveset that can stand out from the other fighters.

Having unique attributes is also a key aspect for newcomers this time around. All four have enough aspects that and are just as or little bit more or less unique to each other, with Decidueye having the most.

Lycanroc comes in at second since it also has many key aspects of it’s design with it’s forms with unique abilites and earth based move set that can make it as unique as Decidueye, however it has a more tamer design.

Mimikyu is third due to having a distinct design and large moveset possibilities with it’s ghost moves and disguise ability, however it’s design is an obvious retread of another fighter who has a similar looking clone, and it’s design may be more complicated to work with.

Incineroar seems to come in at fourth with core design and aspects that can already present in the roster. Even though he isn’t as distinct as the other three, his present moves and archetypes can be used in ways to make him unique and still stand out from the roster.

FINAL VERDICT:

With all this in mind. The characters that seem to be front runners are Lycanroc and Incineroar, since they both have been both prominent and unique since the very beginning and have moveset potential to make them stand out.

Decidueye comes in at third since he lacks in area as he isn’t as prominent as the first two, but his moveset and originality is insane with many different ways to make it stand out.

Then we have Mimikyu, who is fourth. Mimikyu, although is insanely popular is getting pushed a lot, is in roles a tier below that of Lycanroc and Incineroar. It seems to be getting pushed for merchandising sake since it’s very popular and in a different manner than Lycanroc and Incineroar. It’s design is also a bit more complicated to work. Thus, the overall vibe surrounding Mimikyu doesn’t really make it seem to be pushed around for as a newcomer for Smash Ultimate by TPC.

LAST BIT:

Okay and with that, let me drink my cup of intelligence, the way that dude from GameXplain did it in the Bandanna Waddle Dee debate video. Hopefully this sums up everyone’s view point, because this was tiring and I’m tired of people doing the same arguments and I’m going to use this here to explain all of their pros and cons.
This in every level

I know decidueye is a misdirection of the most likely only us/USA love decidueye in everything else including anime you may want to think again poken is pretty much the only thing decidueye is advertised in so far

The real most likely gen 7 rep (if it happens) is between incineroar or lycanroc
 
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Also apparently in a an interview with a Ubisoft guy on Mario x Rabbids DLC, there is some kind of DK team within Nintendo that basically handle the IP.

They're basically OK with DK's representation then. perhaps also gatekeeping a certain character recently.
#FreeLeoLuster
 

Cosmic77

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Tbf with Ridley, the hammer is really there to show how drop dead (like :ultmegaman: or the parents of :ultsamus:) gorgeous he is
Ridley can't be gorgeous as :ultwiifittrainer:, no matter how much he tries, so he might as well stop and give the hammer someone worthy.
I think by :ultwiifittrainer: you mean :ultkingdedede:, we all know Dedede is the most gorgeous creature on the planet and that he is the only one who is worthy of having the hammer.
Not sure who's considered the most beautiful in NA and EU, but according to Japan...
 

Imadethistoseealeak

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Hey guys remember when Toon Link got deconfirmed in Smash 3DS?
View attachment 153053
Yeah was sad when he couldn’t be in the game, or when King Dedede got deconfirmed in Smash 4 DLC?
View attachment 153054
Yeah I was sad that we couldn’t play as him, what’s worse is that Falco got deconfirmed cause he’s in Fox’s Final Smash:
View attachment 153055
And now Samus is deconfirmed because she appears in Zero Suit Samus’s Final Smash, what a loss:
View attachment 153056
Okay but in all seriousness I think we’ve been looking too broad at character deconfirmations, expect the unexpected.
Agreed. This is why part of me thinks it might be possible for Pauline to be in somehow.


Yeah, I rather liked some bits, like the fact that character announcements most likely will be near December, DLC only being started once the game's released, and Sakurai basically finishing up the game right after the flight back from EVO ended.

Also the most hilarious part of the interview is Bill suggesting that the fat guy from Ice Hockey on NES could be included. :laugh:
So what you're saying is that Kumatora ISN'T deconfirmed (she's in Lucas' Final Smash).... damn i never thought i'd see the day when i could say an earthbound character has a decent shot at being added. (with the model and all that goodness.) You've just made my day. (next thing you know Marx will be confirmed and Brinstar Depths is back)
Good point, but my point was that it’s been proven that characters can appear in multiple places without interference and that should be taken into account while speculating.
You're friendly reminder that all of these have only happened for veterans. A newcomer has never been revealed in a non playable role and then as a playable character in the same game. Sakurai is huge on surprise reveals and it's unlikely he would show off a character as a background effect and then reveal them as a newcomer.

Seriously, much safer to assume they're not in the game. Don't be like 2014 me denying Ridley's shadow reveal :(
 

ThyCheshireCat

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You're friendly reminder that all of these have only happened for veterans. A newcomer has never been revealed in a non playable role and then as a playable character in the same game. Sakurai is huge on surprise reveals and it's unlikely he would show off a character as a background effect and then reveal them as a newcomer.

Seriously, much safer to assume they're not in the game. Don't be like 2014 me denying Ridley's shadow reveal :(
If anything the safest bet would be a neutral stance that it could go either way, Sakurai is unpredictable and he always does things that people don't expect of him. also you say Sakurai is huge on surprise reveals... what's more surprising than thinking someone is deconfirmed then a few months later BAMM... they're actually playable in the game.... NOBODY will see it coming.
 
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Cosmic77

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"Several other legendaries with decidedly unique looks join Mewtwo on the list, including Darkrai (#9), Rayquaza (#16) and Zoroark (#20)."

Ah yes, my favorite Legendary Pokemon.
To be fair, Smash 4 bundled Zoroark in with the Legendary Pokemon for some reason. Don't have any idea why though.

Maybe it has something to do with Zoroark being harder to get in Black and White than legitimate Legendaries. :ohwell:
 
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To be fair, Smash 4 bundled Zoroark in with the Legendary Pokemon for some reason. Don't have any idea why though.

Maybe it has something to do with Zoroark being harder to get in Black and White than legitimate Legendaries. :ohwell:
Yeah. Zoroark was also the star of its own movie, so I understand why someone would mistakenly label it as a legendary.

Speaking of non-legendary movie Pokemon, bring back the Unown from Melee
 
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NintenZ

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You're friendly reminder that all of these have only happened for veterans. A newcomer has never been revealed in a non playable role and then as a playable character in the same game. Sakurai is huge on surprise reveals and it's unlikely he would show off a character as a background effect and then reveal them as a newcomer.

Seriously, much safer to assume they're not in the game. Don't be like 2014 me denying Ridley's shadow reveal :(
I mean the point was moreso that characters can co-exist in multiple roles and they don’t necessarily need to be locked to said roles. As for the newcomers, you have a point but let’s see what happens, you never can know for sure.
 

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If anything the safest bet would be a neutral stance that it could go either way, Sakurai is unpredictable and he always does things that people don't expect of him. also you say Sakurai is huge on surprise reveals... what's more surprising than thinking someone is deconfirmed then a few months later BAMM... they're actually playable in the game.... NOBODY will see it coming.
If Sakurai did decide to add Waluigi. I expect something Kinda like Toon Link on Spirit Tracks where Waluigi just won't appear in that match.
 

osby

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If anything the safest bet would be a neutral stance that it could go either way, Sakurai is unpredictable and he always does things that people don't expect of him. also you say Sakurai is huge on surprise reveals... what's more surprising than thinking someone is deconfirmed then a few months later BAMM... they're actually playable in the game.... NOBODY will see it coming.
Sure, but he doesn't really lies to play with fans' feelings for long terms.

Even Pyrosphere situation was fans' imagination running wild.
 

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To be fair, Smash 4 bundled Zoroark in with the Legendary Pokemon for some reason. Don't have any idea why though.

Maybe it has something to do with Zoroark being harder to get in Black and White than legitimate Legendaries. :ohwell:
Blame the fact that it had a movie, and the fact that for whatever reason, Zorua and Zoroark were tied to special events like a mythical Pokémon. Lucario had the same treatment for a while due to its movie.



Gen VII made it even more confusing. Type: Null and Silvally are legendaries, the Ultra Beasts aren't legendaries, and GameFreak continues to flip-flop on whether or not Phione is.
 
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Mario & Sonic Guy

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The real most likely gen 7 rep (if it happens) is between incineroar or lycanroc
Truthfully, Lycanroc feels more like Poke Ball Pokemon material. The Midday form could attack opponents with Accelerock, while the Midnight form follows opponents in an attempt to perform Counter.

I know that I'm being a broken record, but this thread tends to move fast, and not everyone likes to backtrack.
 

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Blame the fact that it had a movie, and the fact that for whatever reason, Zorua and Zoroark were tied to special events like a mythical Pokémon. Lucario had the same treatment for a while due to its movie.



Gen VII made it even more confusing. Type: Null and Silvally are legendaries, the Ultra Beasts aren't legendaries, and GameFreak continues to flip-flop on whether or not Phione is.
Phione is a Mythical. Honestly it was never that hard to tell for me.
 
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ThyCheshireCat

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Sure, but he doesn't really lies to play with fans' feelings for long terms.

Even Pyrosphere situation was fans' imagination running wild.
I guess so but still i think he could do it, i mean Sakurai is definately going to want to build up as much hype as possible and i personally think that's a great way to do it, imagine the hype that let's say Waluigi would bring. While i don't think Assist Trophies have a shot of this like i do Final Smash characters, this could still be the case for them for all we know.
 

osby

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I guess so but still i think he could do it, i mean Sakurai is definately going to want to build up as much hype as possible and i personally think that's a great way to do it, imagine the hype that let's say Waluigi would bring. While i don't think Assist Trophies have a shot of this like i do Final Smash characters, this could still be the case for them for all we know.
I guess? Again, the game already looks awesome, I don't know why guy would openly lie and keep the act for weeks, just so the reveal itself would be more "hype". I personally think it'd distasteful.

Also, I can see it potentially being case for, say Pauline but not for Waluigi or any Assist Trophy, they are all in the same place.
 

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Truthfully, Lycanroc feels more like Poke Ball Pokemon material. The Midday form could attack opponents with Accelerock, while the Midnight form follows opponents in an attempt to perform Counter.

I know that I'm being a broken record, but this thread tends to move fast, and not everyone likes to backtrack.
Literally every Pokémon "feels like a Poké Ball Pokémon." That's integral to being a Pokémon, especially since so many have signature moves. Just because you can't see one being a fighter doesn't mean you should just dismiss it.


And I mean prior to Smash 4 you were a big Zoroark supporter and it became a Poké Ball Pokémon, soooo...maybe don't go around dismissing other people's picks as "mere Poké Ball material."
 

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A newcomer has never been revealed in a non playable role and then as a playable character in the same game.
:ultrob: was shown off as an enemy in Subspace Emissary before he was revealed as a playable character. Not quite the same as a majority of other characters since ROB is a generic, nonspecific robot, but I guess it's still something you could use to make a case for a disconfirmed character if you were desperate.
 

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I guess? Again, the game already looks awesome, I don't know why guy would openly lie and keep the act for weeks, just so the reveal itself would be more "hype". I personally think it'd distasteful.

Also, I can see it potentially being case for, say Pauline but not for Waluigi or any Assist Trophy, they are all in the same place.
As i have said myself, I don't see it being anyone except background elements (like Pauline or K K Slider) and final smash characters (Like Chrom or Kumatora), since those don't affect the battle as much as Assist Trophies do and they have more evidence to support their case than ATs do ,a character has been both a FS and a Character but not both an AT and a Character.
 

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Phione is a Mythical. Honestly it was never that hard to tell for me.
The fact that you could get an infinite amount of them through breeding made it a big old question mark to a lot of people. Plus, like I said, GameFreak themselves went back and forth on the issue, sometimes classifying it as a mythical, and other times acting as though it was straight-up non-legendary in general.
 
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The fact that you could get an infinite amount of them through breeding made it a big old question mark to a lot of people. Plus, like I said, GameFreak themselves went back and forth on the issue, sometimes classifying it as a mythical, and other times acting as though it was straight-up non-legendary in general.
Not to mention its stats don't exactly scream "mythical" or "legendary" at all, so it's easy to understand why people would think it's not one.
 

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I wonder how silly we'll all feel if the Gen 7 Pokemon turns out to be... Brionne
 

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As i have said myself, I don't see it being anyone except background elements (like Pauline or K K Slider) and final smash characters (Like Chrom or Kumatora), since those don't affect the battle as much as Assist Trophies do and they have more evidence to support their case than ATs do ,a character has been both a FS and a Character but not both an AT and a Character.
Unfortunately I agree with this, I don’t think Final Smash characters and background characters are impossible but I feel like an Assist Trophy character is a death sentence, so sorry Waluigi and Lyn.
 

osby

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:ultrob: was shown off as an enemy in Subspace Emissary before he was revealed as a playable character. Not quite the same as a majority of other characters since ROB is a generic, nonspecific robot, but I guess it's still something you could use to make a case for a disconfirmed character if you were desperate.
To be honest, while you don't know it's him, Ancient Minister shows up pretty early.
 
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