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Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

Almost one month has passed since release. In retrospect....

  • This is by far the best Smash ever. Like, I don't even know how they will top this.

  • Pretty freakin' good; I have a few qualms over things like internet play, balancing issues, etc.

  • It's ok, but [insert Smash game here] is better.

  • I'd rather play Parcheesi.


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BlondeLombax

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Remember when everybody believed that echo fighters were abominations and stole spots reserved for more deserving candidates in the Wii U/3DS era?
I was just looking back on (and internally laughing at) most of the comments relating to the whole debacle, and right now I'm smiling at how much more accepted they've become now that they've been more thoroughly explained. I like to see the whole debate in a specific light, almost comparable to choosing flavors of ice cream. Take the Pits, for example; although both are fundamentally the same, regular old Pity-Pat has a more passive vanilla playstyle, with faster arrows and a vertical-launching side-B, while Pittoo is more a chocolaty aggressive type, with a more horizontal side-B and stronger arrows. Lucina and Marth are on a similar boat: the Hero King is a full on birthday cake with icing (the tipper), whilst his descendant is the same flavor, just lacking in said frosting for a leaner approach. It's reasons like this that are why I adore clones, and I can't wait to see how the newer ones differ from their original flavors.

Sorry if I'm off-topic, by the way, I just wanted to say something interesting.
 
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Starbound

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If we wanted to get really weird with Pokemon, there's always Pyukumuku. Complete with the giant fist in the form of its internal organs, and it could jump by flopping around.

Would be an interesting successor to Wobbuffet though. But now I have to say I would get a laugh out of punching people with a sea cucumber's stomach.

On a more serious note, if Sakurai was aware of USUM when he developed the game, Necrozma could be pretty interesting. Or Marshadow.

But I really want Tapu Koko or Nihilego.
 

Idon

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Just saying, none of these grabby issues would be a problem if:

A. There was an imp with magical hair riding the dog
B. The dog was the sun goddess and could levitate objects already
 

RandomAce

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She's in Shulk's final smash. If Xenoblade gets a new rep it should have a character from a different game.

Neither Decidueye or Incineroar are getting in. It'll be Mimikyu or Lycanroc.
Such confidence.

All four have their pros and cons so let us go over them shall we, and because everyone keeps talking about them I’m going to talk about everything considering their chances so everyone can stop dissing on my favorite.

PROMINENCE:

Decidueye unfortunatley doesn’t have this as it is no where to be found in any source of media or is important in neither the anime or the movie, or doesn’t even have a lot of merchandise compared to other popular Gen 7 Pokémon aside of it getting your starter treatment. All it got was being playable in Pokken, and it was never touched again.

Mimikyu is pretty obvious, it’s THE most popular generation 7 pokemon. So it has lots of advertising and merchandising, etc. Although Mimikyu doesn’t seem to have major roles in the anime and wasn’t in the movie.

Incineroar shines here, it’s this generation’s pushed Starter. It was main Pokémon in the movie and is beginning to have larger role in the anime. It’s safe to say that TPC has been pushing Incineroar over time and has become one of this generation’s flagship Pokémon.

Lycanroc also shines here. But since everyone says that nothing happened with Lycanroc before it’s Dusk form was revealed, let’s do a recap. Lycanroc has been pushed from THE VERY START when it’s Midday and Midnight forms were first revealed. The Rockruff line has been heavily pushed ever since then in 2016, with PTC sets, merchandising, and they even appeared in the anime along with the movie. The Rockruff line was getting pushed on par with the starter lines before Dusk appeared, and over time has become one of this generations flagship/Lucario-esk pokemon of this era. So even if Dusk wasn’t around, Midday and Midnight were a big deal when this game’s Pokémon newcomer was decided on.

Being promoted by TPC is a pretty big factor as it can indicate which Pokémon might’ve been chosen in Smash and who are more likely to have been suggested. Mimikyu, Incineroar, and Lycanroc win with this one. While Decidueye is having a hard time.

UNIQUENESS:

Decidueye is an obvious seller here. It has a very unique design and concept of it being a ghost starter with many possibilities for move sets. Grass, Flying, Ghost, Archery, Decidueye has it all to stand out from the rest of the cast and with it’s very eye catching design may allow Sakurai to select it for it’s unique potential.

Mimikyu is a 50/50. By being a ghost type character, a lot of potential utilizing many different supernatural moves that can easily have it stand out along with it’s disguise ability and eye catching design. However, the design may be difficult to implement, and with it’s whole concept of looking like Pikachu and with already Pikachu and Pichu on the roster, I can also see it as reason for Sakurai not picking Mimikyu and making it a pokeball instead.

Incineroar is more of 75/25. It can easily stand out using wrestling moves and attacks and it has a unique design to go with it as well. However, it SORT OF rehashes fire based moves and grappler archetypes that the rest of the cast shares as well, albeit he can have many unique movesets with his moves available, he does blend in with some of the other characters in the cast.

Lycanroc is another 75/25 situation. All of the forms design are a lot more simpler designs compared to the other Pokémon which isn’t as catching as all the others. Lycanroc does have a lot of ways to be unique from the rest of the cast. With a wide range of earth based abilities, different forms, and Dusk’s power boost, Lycanroc can easily have a moveset that can stand out from the other fighters.

Having unique attributes is also a key aspect for newcomers this time around. All four have enough aspects that and are just as or little bit more or less unique to each other, with Decidueye having the most.

Lycanroc comes in at second since it also has many key aspects of it’s design with it’s forms with unique abilites and earth based move set that can make it as unique as Decidueye, however it has a more tamer design.

Mimikyu is third due to having a distinct design and large moveset possibilities with it’s ghost moves and disguise ability, however it’s design is an obvious retread of another fighter who has a similar looking clone, and it’s design may be more complicated to work with.

Incineroar seems to come in at fourth with core design and aspects that can already present in the roster. Even though he isn’t as distinct as the other three, his present moves and archetypes can be used in ways to make him unique and still stand out from the roster.

FINAL VERDICT:

With all this in mind. The characters that seem to be front runners are Lycanroc and Incineroar, since they both have been both prominent and unique since the very beginning and have moveset potential to make them stand out.

Decidueye comes in at third since he lacks in area as he isn’t as prominent as the first two, but his moveset and originality is insane with many different ways to make it stand out.

Then we have Mimikyu, who is fourth. Mimikyu, although is insanely popular is getting pushed a lot, is in roles a tier below that of Lycanroc and Incineroar. It seems to be getting pushed for merchandising sake since it’s very popular and in a different manner than Lycanroc and Incineroar. It’s design is also a bit more complicated to work. Thus, the overall vibe surrounding Mimikyu doesn’t really make it seem to be pushed around for as a newcomer for Smash Ultimate by TPC.

LAST BIT:

Okay and with that, let me drink from my cup of intelligence, you know, the way that dude from GameXplain did it in the Bandanna Waddle Dee debate video. Hopefully this sums up everyone’s view point, because this was tiring and I’m tired of people doing the same arguments and I’m going to use this here to explain all of their pros and cons.
 
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Tree Gelbman

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My favorite nonsensical thing I've ever heard in the Smash fanbase is:

''This Pokemon just doesn't seem like fighter material."

 
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Arcanir

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I can't believe no one ever talks about this guy when discussing Alolan candidates;


Yeah, sure, making a moveset for a quadruped is probably going to be difficult, but I can't see this guy being any harder to implement than Mimikyu. And he's got such crazy awesome design and backstory. Easily one of Alola's most iconic monsters. Now that you point it out, I would honestly be super hyped for that. And the fact that it's completely within the realm of possibilities is even better.
Personally, I would like Type: Null or Silvally (mostly the latter, but I wouldn't mind the former). A lot of fans harp on it for not being 'legendary' enough, but it has such a cool backstory, design, and notable ties to the story that I find it's pretty likeable as a Pokémon. Moveset-wise it's also pretty varied in what it can do so you can easily come up with something very fun, particularly if they do figure something unique out for its type-changing gimmick if they went Silvally.
 

BlondeLombax

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My favorite nonsensical thing I've ever heard in the Smash fanbase is.

''This Pokemon just doesn't seem like fighter material."

Exactly; in a series where cockfighting is tradition, and every animal on the planet is capable of doing so, this argument is on a raft made of sand.

But if you ask me, the most likely Alola rep is Decidueye: huge marketing, latest generation, is already in a fighting game, and it completes the trinity of fully evolved starters with (debatably, at this point) Charizard and Greninja. Though I would settle for anything from Alola, really. Even the Garfield wannabe Persian would be cool to see in my book (Sun is my first Pokemon game, I'm partially biased).
 
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RandomAce

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My favorite nonsensical thing I've ever heard in the Smash fanbase is.

''This Pokemon just doesn't seem like fighter material."

Hopefully that isn’t pointed at me. :’(

I think we’re all just desperate on who is likley at this point. I mean even after they showed off some of the new poke balls, unless Bewear was a strong probability, we’re still in the same boat as before.
 
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D

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"Exactly; in a series where cockfighting is tradition, and every animal on the planet is capable of doing so, this argument is on a raft made of sand."

If you can make a full fighting style for Metapod, Unown, and Diglet to use in Smash, then you can make a point like this.

Until then, anyone who uses the "It's a Pokémon, so it automatically works" argument needs to readjust their thought process.
 

Idon

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Honestly, I just want an SMT character in so I can make the joke about how they would try to negotiate with the Pokemon thinking they were demons and being confused about why they won't speak.

Or inversely, an innocent Pokemon trainer being betrayed by what he assumes to be a normal Pokemon, but is a psychotic demon
Pokemon falling for it.png
 
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Jetsurge

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Honestly I don't think Lycanroc has a shot at all. The roster was decided long before Dusk Lycanroc, the only reason he's seen as having a shot, became a thing. Add onto that that Lycanroc has the least interesting and innovative concept art out of itself, Decidueye, Incineroar, and Mimikyu, and I can't see any reason Sakurai would have gone for Lycanroc over the other candidates.


Personally I think it's between Decidueye, Incineroar, and Mimikyu, each with their own draws and setbacks when it comes to making it in.
Dusk form is basically an orange day form with very minor stat changes and a different ability(which aren't a part of any Pokemon characters moveset) so it would be easy to change to if they started with day form.

Such confidence.
Mimikyu is pretty obvious, it’s THE most popular generation 7 pokemon. So it has lots of advertising and merchandising, etc. Although Mimikyu doesn’t seem to have major roles in the anime and wasn’t in the movie.
Wrong. Mimikyu has a huge role in the Sun and Moon anime being Team Rocket's main Pokemon appearing in almost every episode alongside them. It has a great and memorable rivalry with Pikachu and Team Rocket use Mimikyu to peform Z-moves.
 

OdnetninAges

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Topic: What single newcomer would make you 100% satisfied of Super Smash Bros. Ultimate? For me, if one of these characters became playable:

1. Professor Layton
2. Tom Nook (Which is not happening as of this game)
3. Prince Sable
4. Lip

...I would be content with the roster. The former two I personally believe belong in Smash as playable fighters for what they represent within their franchise and their history with Nintendo. The latter two I would love to see in for a potential retro revival. For the Frog the Bell Tolls and Panel de Pon are the only dormant Nintendo franchises I immensely care about returning more than any other, I do not want them to stay Japan-only forever.

For me there are 2 main ones, and if either got in I would be estatic and satisfied with the roster. (And would also have a new main.)

The first is Neku Sakuraba from The World Ends with You. I don't think he's likely at all, and I'm probably the only person on Smashboards that wants him, but he's easily my most wanted character of all time. I adore TWEWY, and it is easily one of my personal favorite video games, and it's definitely my favorite DS game. Having Neku in Smash would be a pipe dream, and you can bet I voted for him in the ballot.

The second is Ashley. I love WarioWare, and I want it to have representation besides just Wario. In my opinion, Ashley is an adorable witch that could have a wicked moveset, especially when teamed up with her transforming familiar Red. She was one of many I would have liked to see in Smash 4, and I was happy with her being an assist trophy at the time. Now, I'm really hoping she makes it in as playable in Ultimate. She's my most wanted 1st party character now.

(Bonus points if Chrom and Shadow get in as echo fighters. I wanted Chrom in Smash 4, but was happy with Robin and Lucina... It'd be super cool to have Chrom get his chance this time. And Shadow is not someone who I was actively wanting, but I would welcome him with open arms if he actually became playable.)
 

BlondeLombax

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If you can make a full fighting style for Metapod, Unown, and Diglet to use in Smash, then you can make a point like this.

Until then, anyone who uses the "It's a Pokémon, so it automatically works" argument needs to readjust their thought process.
I should have added an "almost" to that. I've only played Sun, so my knowledge on Pokemon is limited. Thanks for letting me know!
 

lordvaati

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Gengar is a homie, but acting like that's the only viable option left for a series with near 700 candidates and 2 whole gens skipped is silly young one.
 

DaybreakHorizon

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My bad. I ought to do better than engage a troll. It would've been best for me to ignore this altogether.

For reference, here was my original post
tehponycorn said:
OK_thumb.jpg


Ignoring your horrible misspelling of Decidueye, a Pokémon we talked about twice today and that you could've literally scrolled up to find the spelling for, Smash Bros. doesn't need another Gen 1 Pokémon when two-thirds of our current Pokémon characters are from the same generation. Especially Gengar, who's only niche of being a ghost type is better covered by other Pokémon like Mimikyu, Decidueye, or even Chandelure among others.
 
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Pakky

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*sees another argument of "How would that character hold items" when it's a dumb unrealistic fighting game that has Pichu hug a gun to fire it and that the character in question is freak of nature that doesn't need to uphold biology*

But Pichu has hands... I mean like there's the practical "Ah they can get away with that" and then there's the "No that's literally a wolf how does it hold a rifle?"
 

TheDukeofDorks

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View attachment 153041

Ignoring your horrible misspelling of Decidueye, a Pokémon we talked about twice today and that you could've literally scrolled up to find the spelling for, Smash Bros. doesn't need another Gen 1 Pokémon when two-thirds of our current Pokémon characters are from the same generation. Especially Gengar, who's only niche of being a ghost type is better covered by other Pokémon like Mimikyu, Decidueye, or even Chandelure among others.
Damn dude, let your hair down. Some people don't care about Gen representation, they just want their favorite Pokemon. Nothing wrong with that.
 

Will

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But Pichu has hands... I mean like there's the practical "Ah they can get away with that" and then there's the "No that's literally a wolf how does it hold a rifle?"
Let Pichu shoot people with its feet if it wants to, it's adorable.
 

Pakky

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Gengar is a homie, but acting like that's the only viable option left for a series with near 700 candidates and 2 whole gens skipped is silly young one.
Although out of nearly a 1000 only like 7-10 matter to the Pokemon Company it seems at any one time.

Let Pichu shoot people with its feet if it wants to, it's adorable.
:ultbayonetta: oh!
 
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DaybreakHorizon

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Damn dude, let your hair down. Some people don't care about Gen representation, they just want their favorite Pokemon. Nothing wrong with that.
But saying that Smash needs a Pokémon solely because you like is a different matter altogether.

If you like Gengar, that's cool (personally I'm more of an Alakazam guy myself). I wouldn't like him in Smash, and I wanted to get my points across. I was hoping for an actual argument, but regardless, it was my mistake for falling for obvious bait.
 
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Will

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Damn dude, let your hair down. Some people don't care about Gen representation, they just want their favorite Pokemon. Nothing wrong with that.
When they say their favorite is the only one who should be in Smash, it is a problem.
 
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PhantomShab

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Like I'm serious about thinking Gengar would be a good pick, but I was joking when I said he was the only one needed. Stop being so sensitive lol.
 

Makai Wars

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The worst thing is given how Gamefreak seems to want people to think only Generation 1 exists, Gengar would really have a shot over a newer Pokemon.
 
D

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My bad. I ought to do better than engage a troll. It would've been best for me to ignore this altogether.
Can you point on the doll where Gengar touched you?
Because even after you decided to edit your post, your still insult someone just for wanting Gengar.

Hell, when Gengar first started showing up on leaks and I was legitimately asking if any more popped up out of curiosity, you were all like "thankfully that flavor of the month hasn't shown up" or something like that, then when a new one does show up, you immediately go off about "GET THAT GARBAGE OUT OF HERE".

So this isn't some isolated incident.
 
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Idon

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The worst thing is given how Gamefreak seems to want people to think only Generation 1 exists, Gengar would really have a shot over a newer Pokemon.
Gamefreak or TPC love Pokemon's Gen 1 so much that they made a 3rd Gen one remake that takes out any resemblance of challenge for Pokemon Go gimmicks purely because it's more marketable.

Fan-tastic.
 

Will

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Like I'm serious about thinking Gengar would be a good pick, but I was joking when I said he was the only one needed. Stop being so sensitive lol.
but I was joking
Stop being so sensitive lol.
">I was only pretending" meme
1494862508000.png


Don't even pull that card, that's some stupid bait ****.

He edited his post even though people already quoted it and can see it.
Now you're just making actual bait **** to start something.

Gamefreak or TPC love Pokemon's Gen 1 so much that they made a 3rd Gen one remake that takes out any resemblance of challenge for Pokemon Go gimmicks purely because it's more marketable.

Fan-tastic.
Nostalgia sells, can you blame them?
 

DaybreakHorizon

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Can you point on the doll where Gengar touched you?
Because even after you decided to edit your post, your still insult someone just for wanting Gengar.
It's not that he wanted Gengar, it's that he blatantly put out bait to get a serious response (Deduceiday?), only to laugh when he was given one.

I think Gengar would be disappointing, and I stated my reasons why. I fell right into the trap, and that's my fault. I'm dropping the issue now.
 
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Makai Wars

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Gamefreak or TPC love Pokemon's Gen 1 so much that they made a 3rd Gen one remake that takes out any resemblance of challenge for Pokemon Go gimmicks purely because it's more marketable.

Fan-tastic.
Lets not forget only the original 151 are available, so cross gen evolutions like Steelix, Scisor, Kingdra, Crobat, Umbreon, Espeon, Glaceon, Leafeon and Slyveon (among others) are completely unobtainable. You can't even go to Johto or the Sevii Islands, so LGPE also has less content than FRLG.
On top of that the newest Pokemon movie was announced, it's basically a remake of the first Pokemon Movie, Metwtwo Strikes Back (again!).

It's ridiculous, especially since the majority of current Pokemon fans started with a gen that wasn't 1 (people in my age group often started with Gen 4) and yet Gen 1 is the only thing that ever gets fanservice, it's really grating to feel neglected just because you really liked Black and White, or RSE, or literally anything that isn't Kanto.
 
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