Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[92MilesPrower]

Keep on doing this!
I have seen some custom Snake codecs in YouTube but this is really cool as well!

That's the plan, I'm doing every character (1 a day) until I run out of them. It's always fun to do, some characters end up being definitely more fun to write Codecs for (Otacon freaking out about Cloud, having Eggman hijack the channel and attempt to help Snake defeat Sonic, having 2 Snakes argue over who's the real one).

 

[RandomAce]

In what universe does Donkey Kong "cover" the role of a wrestler?
As for Bowser, one command grab and a dropkick doesn't "cover" anything.

Donkey Kong’s play style in Smash 4 revolves around getting a grab in order to deal a lot of damage and follow it up with another attack to do as much damage. The same goes for Bowser as well.

Both of their play styles have to them needing to use their grabs to do the most damage.

So Inceneroar will more or less use the same play style, but at least a have a couple of more throw moves.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Donkey Kong’s play style in Smash 4 revolves around getting a grab in order to deal a lot of damage and follow it up with another attack to do as much damage. The same goes for Bowser as well.

Both of their play styles have to them needing to use their grabs to do the most damage.

So Inceneroar will more or less use the same play style, but at least a have a couple of more throw moves.

DK's Up B on the ground has also become more like a lariat-style move, so that might give some the vibes of Zangief from Street Fighter or so.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Donkey Kong’s play style in Smash 4 revolves around getting a grab in order to deal a lot of damage and follow it up with another attack to do as much damage. The same goes for Bowser as well.

Both of their play styles have to them needing to use their grabs to do the most damage.

So Inceneroar will more or less use the same play style, but at least a have a couple of more throw moves.

Have you even tried Smash 4 Bowser? His playstyle doesn't revolve around his side B. At all. You can have an amazing Bowser without ever using that move.

What's next? Cloud's a zoner because he's got a projectile even though no one ever uses or even needs it?

 

[Will]

Listen here you big boys, no 7th Generation Pokemon that's within the same circle of probability is more deserving than the other. Cease this useless argument and wait for it to happen again next week as per the cycle goes.

 

[drag0nscythe]

He is

Bit late on that Goemon-talk here, but I'm also a long-time fan of the series, though the times I fiddled with it has gone way years back. I played through most of the SNES-games + tried bit of the N64-games as well. Absolutely love the series though, probably one of the most charming and fun games that are able to rival likes of other platform mascots. I'm sure Goemon was a stand-in for that next to Castlevania back in the day.

I though have to admit that due Goemon's overall obscurity today, I can't really see him in Smash these days. Just wish he was more around, that way I could have seen him be rallied probably as much as Banjo-Kazooie or Rayman.

Still, if it's any constolation to you @ToasterBrains , Konami did tribute to Goemon heavily in their other properties back in the 90s, such as Parodius-series which had one of the games feature a full-blown Goemon-level at one point,, right down to the stage elements ripped from some parts of Legend of Mystical Ninja SNES and Ganbare Goemon SFC 2.

Anyway, I can only hope Goemon and friends return one day - quite do miss those guys whenever I revisit these series.

He is on par with banjo i would say.

 

[Deleted member]

K. Rool as a wrestler... ?


I'd dig that.

 

[drag0nscythe]

I

K. Rool as a wrestler... ?


I'd dig that.

If we get k rool. I want a dk vs k rool boxing event. Since both have boxing careers.

 

[Murlough]

View attachment 152919

Listen here you big boys, no 7th Generation Pokemon that's within the same circle of probability is more deserving than the other. Cease this useless argument and wait for it to happen again next week as per the cycle goes.

*hears Mimikyu and comes running*
*is pleased*
*reads the above post*
*hrrrrnnnng*

To be fair, no one was even arguing anything and literally every argument made in this thread is pointless.

No matter what nonsense we say here, from now until release, affects the outcome. We are getting what we are getting basically.

I agree we shouldn't do the Pokemon argument again, though. At least not until one is deconfirmed (disconfirmed? Defirmed?) or something.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Forgot to reply for DK.

Donkey Kong’s play style in Smash 4 revolves around getting a grab in order to deal a lot of damage and follow it up with another attack to do as much damage.

A lot of characters in Smash 4 have combo throws. DK's far from unique in that aspect.

Would you call Mario, Luigi, Diddy Kong, Sheik or Zero Suit Samus among many others as "wrestlers" in the context of their fighting style?

Plus, you're not completely right about DK to begin with because while his BnB is the Cargo Throw, using it too often (aka making that single move your entire playstyle as you so claimed) will make it weaker due to staleness, which is really bad since the best use of that throw is as a finishing kill move.

 

[Murlough]

Forgot to reply for DK.


A lot of characters in Smash 4 have combo throws. DK's far from unique in that aspect.

Would you call Mario, Luigi, Diddy Kong, Sheik or Zero Suit Samus among many others as "wrestlers" in the context of their fighting style?

Plus, you're not completely right about DK to begin with because while his BnB is the Cargo Throw, using it too often (aka making that single move your entire playstyle as you so claimed) will make it weaker due to staleness, which is really bad since the best use of that throw is as a finishing kill move.

Actually, its Upair you don't want to stale. You do want to stale Cargo Upthrow because then you can Ding Dong at a few more percents than you would with a fresh Upthrow.

 

[Idon]

So are you going to tell me Ike is a grappler because he relies on uthrow and dthrow comboes?

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Actually, its Upair you don't want to stale. You do want to stale Cargo Upthrow because then you can Ding Dong at a few more percents than you would with a fresh Upthrow.

Oh... right...

My point about there being lots of people with a combo throw still stands though.

Cargo Throw's purpose doesn't make DK a wrestler at all because otherwise, at least half the cast would be "wrestlers" too because combo throw.

 

[Idon]

The true mark of any grappler are command throws. Until we get a spinning pile driver or a power bomb, we are lacking in that department.

 

[DoctorSanity]

Tbh Ganondorf is more of a grappler than DK or Bowser with two special moves that grab the opponent

when I think of a "raw" wrestler/grappler I think of a character like Cerebella from Skullgirls or Android 13 from Dragon Ball FighterZ. I think a lot of what makes a wrestler/grappler type that type of character is the introduction of grabs mid-combos

 

[papagenos]

I made a video about that really "out there" leak that correctly predicted Nintendo Funko Pops/Mario Kart 8 Deluxe getting further content/ and guessed exatly what Pokemon Lets Go Pikachu/Eevee content is likely to be shown next...

I still have no idea where to stand on this leak, leaning towards it being half true with fake things thrown in for whatever reason? Really tough call here with an unbelievable leak that keeps gaining credibility.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Tbh Ganondorf is more of a grappler than DK or Bowser with two special moves that grab the opponent

And even then, it feels like a stretch to call him a grappler.

The true mark of any grappler are command throws. Until we get a spinning pile driver or a power bomb, we are lacking in that department.

I mean, there's Bowser's Flying Slam... but it's not really enough to justify him as a grappler when his playstyle doesn't really need it.

when I think of a "raw" wrestler/grappler I think of a character like Cerebella from Skullgirls or Android 13 from Dragon Ball FighterZ. I think a lot of what makes a wrestler/grappler type that type of character is the introduction of grabs mid-combos

While having grabs mid-combo is synonymous with grapplers in traditional fighting games, it's not exactly the most defining thing in Smash because some people can do that in those games without classifying as "wrestlers"

Best way this could be implimented in Smash imo is by having moves that are designed to have grab follow-ups without abusing things like autocancelled aerials or frame data.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

I think DK's original concept was based on the traditional fighter grappler; notice that he's unique as the only smash character with six normal throws versus everyone else's four, and of the original 12 characters, he has by far the largest grab range that doesn't come alongside the massive sacrifices of a tether. However, he wasn't quite the same and over time he's been tuned based on how he turned out and not the original concept so he's really more about being the heavy with more fluid movement and more "flow" than someone like Bowser as he's currently built, and the smash heavy as a concept isn't really a great match for the traditional grappler archetype. It's kinda like how Mario was obviously designed to be the "Ryu" of smash in the beginning, but over time his stubby limbs and above average attack speed made it more natural for him to evolve into a more aggressive/combo character when Ryu in SF is a more methodical/footsies based character with the point being made so beautifully by the fact that when Ryu himself was put into smash he was radically different from Mario!

To be honest, I don't think smash really needs a traditional grappler; from game dynamics, the closest we've ever had was probably Brawl Ice Climbers, and that was the most toxic character in series history by a huge margin. Traditional grapplers are naturally low movement characters who once they get in and get going do just explosive amounts of damage with their high power throws that are a huge threat to loop on wake-up with the natural extra threat that of course their command throws can't be blocked. In smash, the whole balancing of grabs is different in the first place (you can grab people out of the air, naturally, as jumping isn't intended to be a high risk move in smash like it is in traditional fighters), and before 4, repeated grab set-ups were really degenerate since if they kinda work at all they're going to be inescapable completely so they're now hard prevented by the engine which would make a traditional grappler concept literally not work. Being low mobility is also really terrible in smash in a way it isn't in traditional fighters so low mobility characters need a lot more going for them than just "command grabs"; it's why all the low mobility characters in smash tend to have whole movesets full of outstanding pokes and such just so they can accomplish anything at all which even still has historically done a poor job of keeping these characters out of the lower reaches of the tier list.

 

[Murlough]

Oh... right...

My point about there being lots of people with a combo throw still stands though.

Cargo Throw's purpose doesn't make DK a wrestler at all because otherwise, at least half the cast would be "wrestlers" too because combo throw.

I would say DK and Bowser are "Grapplers" but I actually don't know the official definition of a Grappler in the FGC. It also gets slightly more confusing when converting that definition from standard fighting games to Smash.

They definately aren't wrestlers though no. I was agreeing with you up until the "don't stale upthrow" thing but I didn't have time to say that.

EDIT: I would say Bowser and DK are about as close as Smash will ever get to true grapplers. Maybe Incineroar but that would require giving him the ability to regrab and Smash doesn't have counterplay for that kind of playstyle other than "don't get grabbed."

 

[RandomAce]

Have you even tried Smash 4 Bowser? His playstyle doesn't revolve around his side B. At all. You can have an amazing Bowser without ever using that move.

What's next? Cloud's a zoner because he's got a projectile even though no one ever uses or even needs it?

I’m talking about his GRAB, not his side B. Don’t put words in my mouth and assume based on that assumption.

Bowser has to rely on his throws and grabs to follow up into other attacks and deal damage.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I’m talking about his GRAB, not his side B. Don’t put words in my mouth and assume based on that assumption.

Still, having one move isn't exactly justification for him being a "wrestler"

I mean, I don't think I've ever seen a wrestler wear a spiky shell in battles...

 

[EchoAegis]

I made a video about that really "out there" leak that correctly predicted Nintendo Funko Pops/Mario Kart 8 Deluxe getting further content/ and guessed exatly what Pokemon Lets Go Pikachu/Eevee content is likely to be shown next...

I still have no idea where to stand on this leak, leaning towards it being half true with fake things thrown in for whatever reason? Really tough call here with an unbelievable leak that keeps gaining credibility.

I don't know tbh it seems like the guy got a lucky guess with the Funko pops thing. Because if we're being honest the Switch will blow up trying to run the FF7 Remake.

But give me that Mario Maker port, We need that port now!

 

[ZephyrZ]

I've always heard that grapplers were characters who intimidate opponents into shielding often with powerful attacks and tgen punish their shields with their brutal grab games. If you go by that really loose definition, I'd say DK and Bowser are both grapplers, or at least have grappler-like playstyles.

 

[Will]

Because if we're being honest the Switch will blow up trying to run the FF7 Remake.

Not unless they severely downgrade it.
or if it gets cancelled

 

[Idon]

Not unless they severely downgrade it.
or if it gets cancelled

Don't worry, it's episodic anyways, so they can just make FF7 part 1, cancel part 2 and 3, and blame the fans for not giving enough support!

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

Wait, so Inceneroar is the most likely alolan newcomer now?

Although it's passed, I want to clarify that isn't what I said or think. Inceniroar is the most likely starter Pokemon imo. It's high up in general too, but I wouldn't flat out say most likely.

People really are sleeping on Mimikyu for some bizarre reason.

Popular, based off the mascot, role in the anime (even if they kinda...butchered in translation IMO), pushed by Pokemon Company, etc.

The fact he's based off Pikachu alone gives him a major heads up alone without all the other stuff. It certainly helped in what made him popular.

That and the meta of it all. Pokemon Company tried so hard to make a Pikachu successor with countless cute rodents and each never really hit the mark, finally they create a Pokemon that WANTS to be Pikachu and be beloved and it actually is.

Oh trust me I'm not sleeping on Mimikyu, as it's my most wanted right now <3.

Somedays I think it's the most likely but then I call out by bias and feel like it isn't nearly as likely as other Gen 7 candidates. It's defintely in the top 5 though and deserves to be just as seriously discussed as Decideueye and Lycanroc. (Also Incinearoar doesn't get brought up as much as it should. I don't want it but it's looking likely).

 

[Will]

Don't worry, it's episodic anyways, so they can just make FF7 part 1, cancel part 2 and 3, and blame the fans for not giving enough support!

Oh **** that's right they did have that multiple disc gimmick didn't they?
Say the PS4 version would be on one disc, if you do multiple cartridges it could make up for something. Maybe not graphically, don't think that's how it works. I know there's way too much free space in Switch game boxes, though. You could easily put multiple cartridges in there.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

cancel part 2 and 3, and blame the fans for not giving enough support!

That's what Capcom would do, not Squeenix.

Besides, we all know it's impossible for them to release KHIII and FFVIIR at the same time, one must be finished before the other.

 

[EchoAegis]

Not unless they severely downgrade it.

Yeah, its gonna take a huge downgrade. Actually I've got a leak screenshot of Switch gameplay

 

[Luminario]

VERY unpopular opinion: I don't like the new Zelda design. I think she looks weird, and her mouth especially looks strange-like she doesn't have any teeth.

There are a few things off about the new Zelda, like the :D smile of the wave taunt where her mouth opens just a little too far or the stiff bangs. Still though, I'll happily take those choices for the amount of personality she shows now. It's all worth it for that finger-snap Phantom summon victory screen.

 

[Mega Bidoof]

I don't know tbh it seems like the guy got a lucky guess with the Funko pops thing. Because if we're being honest the Switch will blow up trying to run the FF7 Remake.

But give me that Mario Maker port, We need that port now!

To be fair we haven’t seen any footage of the FF7 Remake since before it’s development basically restarted, and the Switch could always run a downscaled version.

After sitting on it for a day and calming down, I’m still not sure what to think with this leak.

The two main things that make me not buy it are:
- Them suddenly announcing FF7 Remake for Switch when it hasn’t been seen in three years, basically had its development restarted just last year, and isn’t coming out for at least two more years.
- Cuphead coming to Switch, despite the devs saying it’s exclusive to Xbox and PC. HOWEVER, Microsoft funded the game, and its entirely possible that they told them to bring it to Switch. They do seem to be getting closer with Nintendo lately, potentially in some mutual effort to do some damage to their common competitor Sony. Sony is Microsoft’s main enemy in the west, and is Nintendo’s in Japan, so it’s not THAT crazy.

The MK8D DLC could’ve been a lucky guess and I suppose the Funko could too, but the specific Let’s Go information is what’s making me not write it off totally yet. That part seems too weird to me.

 

[EchoAegis]

To be fair we haven’t seen any footage of the FF7 Remake since before it’s development basically restarted, and the Switch could always run a downscaled version.

After sitting on it for a day and calming down, I’m still not sure what to think with this leak.

The two main things that make me not buy it are:
- Them suddenly announcing FF7 Remake for Switch when it hasn’t been seen in three years, basically had its development restarted just last year, and isn’t coming out for at least two more years.
- Cuphead coming to Switch, despite the devs saying it’s exclusive to Xbox and PC. HOWEVER, Microsoft funded the game, and its entirely possible that they told them to bring it to Switch. They do seem to be getting closer with Nintendo lately, potentially in some mutual effort to do some damage to their common competitor Sony. Sony is Microsoft’s main enemy in the west, and is Nintendo’s in Japan, so it’s not THAT crazy.

The MK8D DLC could’ve been a lucky guess and I suppose the Funko could too, but the specific Let’s Go information is what’s making me not write it off totally yet. That part seems too weird to me.

Oh, I totally agree I'm not writing off this leak just yet myself it's just that it sounds too good to be true. Guess will just have to play the waiting game now.

If this leak is true I've got to admit Nintendo have outdone themselves and the future for the Switch is looking amazing.

 

[Mega Bidoof]

Yeah, its gonna take a huge downgrade. Actually I've got a leak screenshot of Switch gameplay

I’d honestly be down for a straight FFVII Switch port.

 

[NintenZ]

Yeah, its gonna take a huge downgrade. Actually I've got a leak screenshot of Switch gameplay

Oh please, I have a screenshot of the real Switch version from Square Enix headquarters, take a look if you will everyone:

 

[Capybara Gaming]

I know it'd never happen, but when coming up with my dream roster, I had Frank West as a newcomer, and had an idea for a stage for him: Willamette Parkview Mall from the original Dead Rising.

The stage takes place in either Paradise Plaza or Wonderland Plaza, doesn't matter which as the stage is completely flat either way. The Battlefield and Omega versions take place on the second floor of the mall instead. As in the original game, the place is packed to the brim with zombies in the background. Occassionally, when hazards are enabled, a zombie will wander onto the battlefield and attempt to grab a player and tackle them to the ground, biting them for some damage. Zombies can be grabbed and thrown towards other players just as Frank can do in the original game.

When playing Frank on the stage, you can do a special Smash taunt where Otis Washington will call you and alert you that there's a "survivor" (one of the fighters you're battling) in the mall, providing a brief description of them and a comment about them (I.E. "He's pretty short and wearing a red hat and overalls... maybe he's the pizza delivery guy?") Beware though, because if you take any damage while talking to him, you'll forcibly hang up and he'll call back, disgruntled. ("Don't hang up on me like that! It's rude! Anyway, here's what I was sayin'...")

Some of the stage's musical tracks could be:

Spoiler

Frank West, from the original Dead Rising

His Name's Frank, from Dead Rising 2: Off the Record

Adam's Theme (Crazy Clown) from the original Dead Rising

Willamette Parkview Mall, from Tatsunoko vs. Capcom: Ultimate All-Stars

 

[Deleted member]

>comes back after a terrible night with my family
>opens laptop
>logs into Smashboards
>le post that says Decidueye is only supported because of muh grass
>said post got over 9 likes
>leaves thread

 

[EchoAegis]

>comes back after a terrible night with my family
>opens laptop
>logs into Smashboards
>le post that says Decidueye is only supported because of muh grass
>said post got over 9 likes
>leaves thread

You know what bothers me the most about Pokemon newcomer speculation. (This isn't about Decidueye at all so don't kill me pls)

Is that the newcomer has to be a grass starter because it would complete the trio of a fire and water Pokemon it bugs me so much. Personally, though I believe Decidueye has a huge chance to be added

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Low key, that'd be hot

It really would be

Dora the explorer lol or more down to earth metal sonic

Dora...ew

You know what bothers me the most about pokemon newcomer speculation. (This isn't about Decidueye at all so don't kill me pls)

Is that the newcomer has to be a grass starter because it would complete the trio of a fire and water Pokemon it bugs me so much. Personally, though I believe Decidueye has a huge chance to be added

Well now that is back, the triangle is no longer needed to be completed

 

[RandomAce]

Still, having one move isn't exactly justification for him being a "wrestler"

I mean, I don't think I've ever seen a wrestler wear a spiky shell in battles...

Uh... we’re talking about grappler archetypes, usually these characters are usually fairly large and powerful, they don’t have to be wrestlers.

Allow me to explain:

Grapplers are characters that usually rely powerful attacks and mostly on their throws in order to deal damage to their opponent. Their meta revolves around having a couple of powerful attacks and strong throws they can use to intimidate the opponent and back them to a corner or position where they are at an advantage. Example, Zangief from SF, who uses powerful attacks to back the opponent to a corner and finish them off with his grabs.

Bowser case in point is a grappler-esk character. You said it yourself, unlike other characters who have moves they can safely use to create combos and situations in their favor, Bowser has one move, his Grab and Throws, and it is FUNDAMENTAL to his meta game. Bowser doesn’t have many moves he can rely on to use on it’s own, and using them are very risky that can easily result him in being comboed by his opponent due to his large body. However, his throws allow him to follow up with all of his attacks high and low percents, allowing him to rack up damage and leave his opponent vulnerable to a finishing move.

By making their opponent vulnerable at high percents, he can easily intimidate his opponents because most of his moves can easily kill as well as his throws, and by intimidating them, the opponent is backed in a position where Bowser is now at an advantage.

The same can be applied to DK as well, who also relies on his throws and grabs to allow him to rack up damage and crest situations where he is at an advantage, and unlike other characters, these characters were designed to use their Grabs and throws heavily, whereas other characters don’t have to use theirs as much.

Although it's passed, I want to clarify that isn't what I said or think. Inceniroar is the most likely starter Pokemon imo. It's high up in general too, but I wouldn't flat out say most likely.

Oh trust me I'm not sleeping on Mimikyu, as it's my most wanted right now <3.

Somedays I think it's the most likely but then I call out by bias and feel like it isn't nearly as likely as other Gen 7 candidates. It's defintely in the top 5 though and deserves to be just as seriously discussed as Decideueye and Lycanroc. (Also Incinearoar doesn't get brought up as much as it should. I don't want it but it's looking likely).

I think when it comes to Pokémon we should start to discuss Incenroar more. It’s apparent that it’s starting to become one of the most prominent Gen 7 pokemon for this generation and can also be possibly picked. Albeit, I don’t like Inceneroar that much.

>comes back after a terrible night with my family
>opens laptop
>logs into Smashboards
>le post that says Decidueye is only supported because of muh grass
>said post got over 9 likes
>leaves thread

In a perfect world we can get both Decidueye and someone else.

Unfortunately, I really think Decidueye should be promoted more, it has a cool as design that shouldn’t be wasted.

Albeit, I’m kind of glad that we’re not in the “Decidueye is a Shoo in!” phase, but unfortunately for me he isn’t my most wanted.

Sorry Lamp.

 

[NintenZ]

Now that I think about it, maybe he mistook the original Final Fantasy 7 for the remake?

That would at least make sense because the remake is no where near ready.