Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[justPUNT3R]

One of the greatest Pokemon to ever exist. I'm curious what types of buffs Pichu got for being away for 17 years

People say rage will buff them, but they die rather easily. What do y'all think?

 

[Deleted member]

So I've been thinking about potential newcomers and I just realized that as far as newcomers are concerned, we could be seeing something similar to Melee's newcomer in that the unique choices are mostly fan requests or legacy characters and quite a bit of clones added as extra. Let's take a look at Melee's roster:

• Bowser - legacy character and heavily requested
• Peach - legacy character and heavily requested
• Zelda - legacy character
• Sheik - Recent character as Zelda's transformation of the most important Zelda game of all time
• Mewtwo - legacy character and heavily requested
• Ice Climber - obscure retro character
• Marth - legacy character and heavily requested
• Mr. Game & Watch - legacy retro character

For fun, we'll also do clones:

• Dr. Mario - legacy character
• Ganondorf - legacy character and heavily requested clone
• Young Link - prepubescent equivalent of Link
• Falco - legacy character
• Pichu - recent character added as a joke
• Roy - advertisement for FE6

As can be seen, most of the characters had considerable legacy before being added to the roster, many of which also polled well in the Melee polls back when Sakurai started his project plan for the game. Only a few were arguably advertisement and obscure characters and even then, Sheik got in because of Zelda and all other "recency" additions were added as clones.

Now look at who's being added this game. Ultimate has a huge emphasis on returning contents as can be seen by every character returning, citing fan demand for Snake in particular. Ridley, Inklings, and Daisy were all popular characters, the former was specifically said to be added due to oversea fan demand while the latter two are legacy characters in their own right, the former are the face of one of Nintendo's biggest new franchise and Daisy was the princess of Super Mario Land, the best selling handheld Mario game before Mario Kart DS.

Along with Nintendo confirming the ballot would have an influence in future games and the first project proposal coming in December, 2015 and unless something like Lycanroc gets confirmed next, Ultimate will probably mostly add popular and legacy newcomers alongside more than a few echoes.

 

[ToddCam]

Obviously someone with a shovel who can dig his way through the underground.

Mr. Resetti?

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Golden Sun?? What about the Excite series? That's one of their most successful franchises. And it has a retro appeal as one of the most successful NES games.

Sure I could see that as well. Only thing i could see being a problem is the character himself. It sounds like "Awkward" the character to me and it would take Sakurai absolutely forcing a moveset on him or Captain Falconing the **** out of him to make him a character. That said. Hell yeah. Excitebike is another good one.

 

[justPUNT3R]

Mr. Resetti?

No, they mean Steve from Minecraft, obviously.






I know they mean Shovel Knight tho.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Unfortunately, I'd say he's fairly unlikely unless he did VERY well on the ballot. Isaac and the Golden Sun franchise seem to have been forgotten by Nintendo, so extreme fan support is probably the only way he'd get in at this point.


On another note, the Poochy discussion a few pages back reminded me that I'd really like to see him playable. I found a picture that visualizes what he could have for special moves:
View attachment 152125
I'm a big fan of the ideas here, but I think it'd be cool if the Poochy Pups from Woolly World could be included in the moveset somehow.

ProfessorFandango is pretty underrated as a Smash moveset theorist, in my opinion. He's got some neat reasoning for possible Smash picks, too (despite how impossible many of them are).

Obviously someone with a shovel who can dig his way through the underground.

Either that or the guy from Spelunker.

 

[pepiux]

Dixie could easily be a clone. She’s the same build as Diddy, and is canonically/physically capable of all Diddy’s moves. Easy clone. Obviously her fans feel it would be a disservice, but all clone characters have been there before.

But none of the other clone characters have such a distinct trademark used for fighting. A case could be made for Ganondorf, but his appearances and abilities are far and wide. Remove Dixie's ponytail from her moveset and she's nothing. A semi-clone that takes assets from Diddy and maybe shares some moves with him is the only option I see for her, if not fully unique.

 

[justPUNT3R]

ProfessorFandango is pretty underrated as a Smash moveset theorist, in my opinion. He's got some neat reasoning for possible Smash picks, too (despite how impossible many of them are).



Either that or the guy from Spelunker.

Or maybe they could be a part of Yoshi's Moveset.

 

[FantasticMr.StarPit]

Wolf - as the leak suggested, even though it’s likely to be false, I’d like an edgier version of Fox and Falco’s victory theme for him

Or you know, his Star Wolf theme...(or a mix between the two but it wouldn't feel right.)

Oh wait, I realized, Ridley didn't have his own theme as his victory theme. Wish it wasn't the case though. :/

 

[lordvaati]

So, here is a question.

How likely do you think Isaac is?

Was the ballot enough to help him?

50/50. With Inkling's addition nearly every major Nintendo franchise has a rep now. This opens the door to their more nche IPs like Golden Sun or Nintendo Wars, as well as their eShop series. Only hindrance is that statement of not to expect many newcomers.

 

[Luminario]

Another game again, since that Victory Fanfare leak gave me an idea.

What unique fanfares, if any, would you like for newcomers and even veterans who weren’t playable in the demo?

Wolf - as the leak suggested, even though it’s likely to be false, I’d like an edgier version of Fox and Falco’s victory theme for him, like Bowser, Bowser Jr. and Meta Knight do for their respective series. (Also, is Ridley’s fanfare remixed?)

K. Rool - see above, but with the DK victory theme

Simon Belmont - a snippet of Simon’s theme

Dr. Mario - snippet of the Dr. Mario theme song (it’s only fair)

Corrin - snippet of Lost In Thoughts All Alone (instrumental)

Rex & Pyra (and a potential Addam & Mythra echo) - Hunting Succeeded

Rhythm Heaven character - the jingle that plays at the screen just before you play a Remix in Rhythm Heaven Fever

Elma - snippet of THEMEX from 4:22 to 4:27 (or if they’re feeling generous, up to 4:46 and looping i love that song to bits ok)

Peach- Princess Peach is Saved from 0:0 to 0:07, unless they're sticking to the SMB2 thing in which case the SMB2 Character Select theme from 0:02 to 0:08.

Daisy- Sky Pop theme from 0:0 to 0:07 at 0.75 speed. Feels like a better victory theme that fits the more upbeat Daisy than other potential SML songs.

Palutena- The Return of Palutena from 0:0 to 0:08. I thought about the choir part of Destroyed Skyworld but it's too long.

Zelda- With the new redesign it SHOULD have been the Link Between Worlds Title Theme from 0:05 to 0:15. Come to think of it all Zelda characters should have an actual Zelda theme like the Melee theme as opposed to just something mildly LoZ sounding. EDIT: I take this back I didn't know the current fanfare is legit from the original LoZ.

Hilda- the Dark World theme from 0:17 to 0:27. I debated on using her theme but the Dark World fits so much better.

Villager- The same tune can work pretty well, but I'd love for the Achievement tune to be mixed into it.

Isabelle- Main Street theme from 0:03 to 0:12 at 1.5 speed. Villager's works for her too tbh.

Ashley- Her theme (of course) from 0:03 to 0:09 then with the final few notes at 2:03 onwards.

Style Savvy- Dressed Up instrumental from 0:0 to 0:07. I'm actually surprised how well that fits as a victory fanfare. They could rip that part right from the song and it'll work.

Impa- If she's SS Impa then Ballad of the Goddess of course.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Cap already has a rival...Sonic (unless you meant in a fight of course)

Nah, his real rival is Shulk since he refuses to lose to anime.

 

[justPUNT3R]

has the fanfare for the Inklings been revealed in any way?

 

[P.Kat]

Another game again, since that Victory Fanfare leak gave me an idea.

What unique fanfares, if any, would you like for newcomers and even veterans who weren’t playable in the demo?

Wolf - as the leak suggested, even though it’s likely to be false, I’d like an edgier version of Fox and Falco’s victory theme for him, like Bowser, Bowser Jr. and Meta Knight do for their respective series. (Also, is Ridley’s fanfare remixed?)

K. Rool - see above, but with the DK victory theme

Simon Belmont - a snippet of Simon’s theme

Dr. Mario - snippet of the Dr. Mario theme song (it’s only fair)

Corrin - snippet of Lost In Thoughts All Alone (instrumental)

Rex & Pyra (and a potential Addam & Mythra echo) - Hunting Succeeded

Rhythm Heaven character - the jingle that plays at the screen just before you play a Remix in Rhythm Heaven Fever

Elma - snippet of THEMEX from 4:22 to 4:27 (or if they’re feeling generous, up to 4:46 and looping i love that song to bits ok)

Shantae - Stage Clear

Rex & Pyra - A piece from Counterattack.

Elma - A piece from Don't Worry (Never played Xenoblade X so I don't know most of the music except this one)

Sheik - A piece from Gerudo Valley

Lucina - A piece from Id (Purpose)

Corrin - A piece from Lost In Thoughts All Alone (Instrumental)

Sora - A remixed high tempo version of Dearly Beloved, A piece of Link to All, or Sanctuary (Instrumental)

Amaterasu - Great Divine Intervention

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Can we talk about Pichu now?

For some ideas on how to make Pichu better, maybe increase the KBG for its attacks to compensate for the damage penalty. It doesn't necessarily have to deal more damage than Pikachu though.

 

[boysilver400]

So, who do you guys think will be in top tier, high tier, or any tier? Kirby and Pikachu(the original top tiers) could be top tier given how many buffs they got.

 

[PeridotGX]

So, here is a question.

How likely do you think Is

Was the ballot enough to help him?

Can't see him happening. He probably didn't do well enough on the ballot, and he's as relevent as a soggy potato.

 

[Zeox]

When Waluigi joins the battle, Duster is in charge of his Assist Trophy.

 

[ChocolatGelgato]

there's not much info on the tier list, especially when balance changes are still in the works, pikachu apparently has a lot of promise but kirby's been out of comission since melee and ultimate so far hasn't helped him out as much as other characters.

The sad thing is we got dumped near everything at once and we ran out of things to talk about the game we are omega thirsty for. While I think this is mostly good (Remember when people were panicing that ness was gonna be taken out of smash 4) it leads to the lack of the drip feed the last 2 games had. The daily threads just recap what we already knew. So now we argue over semantics and poke at 4chan leakers to pass the time

 

[Freduardo]

This is a really good point. I dunno how Sakurai considers representation but if he is looking at popular characters from franchises that don't have a character yet then Isaac and Chorus Kids are the only two decently popular choices.

While we’re suggesting other franchises that make sense.

Pilotwings.

Only issue is Pilotwings only had characters in the n64 version.

And then switched to mii’s.

I remember before four there was a decent push for Lark for smash. Which because Lark is seen as Nester, I supported. That said even then I wanted Nester to be an alt (and I think alts started in four).

But yeah, Nester/Lark. Could represent not only Pilotwings, but Nester’s 3d bowling (yeah virtual boy representation).

Also the advance wars series would equal golden sun’s notoriety and prominence I’d think.

On a completely different subject, if you could have Harry from the Virtual Boy Classic Game (I realize, oxymoron) Teleroboxer, would you rather have him in ARMs or Smash?

 

[PSIGuy]

Come to think of it all Zelda characters should have an actual Zelda theme like the Melee theme as opposed to just something mildly LoZ sounding.

"Mildly LoZ sounding"?
Zelda victory theme from Brawl onwards
Zelda 1 "Triforce piece obtained" theme

 

[FantasticMr.StarPit]

For my idea of these lovely victory themes that have to be edited out ....

Crash- Crash 3: Warped Warp Room theme but a bit more...epic.

Doomguy- At Doom's Gate jingle(when you picked up a collectible in Doom 2016) or the in my opinion lame "victory cue" from the first Doom.

K. Rool- his theme, Gang-Plank Galleon but a lot more, beats if you know what I mean.

That's all I have to be quite frank.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

there's not much info on the tier list, especially when balance changes are still in the works, pikachu apparently has a lot of promise but kirby's been out of comission since melee and ultimate so far hasn't helped him out as much as other characters.

The sad thing is we got dumped near everything at once and we ran out of things to talk about the game we are omega thirsty for. While I think this is mostly good (Remember when people were panicing that ness was gonna be taken out of smash 4) it leads to the lack of the drip feed the last 2 games had. The daily threads just recap what we already knew. So now we argue over semantics and poke at 4chan leakers to pass the time

I still think more people should play older games using RetroAchievements. It feels like I'm the only one here doing this (under a different name).

Still though, the game organizers definitely blew their load too early on this one. I'm not sure if people's interest in the game will still be high by the time Winter comes.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

So, who do you guys think will be in top tier, high tier, or any tier? Kirby and Pikachu(the original top tiers) could be top tier given how many buffs they got.

The only thing I know is that Samus is sadly gonna continue to be trash... *sigh*

 

[Capybara Gaming]

Well Dark Pit does get away with getting his own slot due to Sakurai not wanting him to use the one weapon he’s never used

I’d give him a 50% chance due to not really knowing him (knowing of him sure thanks to Brawl, but I got nothing else)

I think every electric move

But it's totally fine for the Koopalings to use Shadow Mario or for Alph to use Olimar's ship? Kind of a double standard if you ask me...

 

[boysilver400]

there's not much info on the tier list, especially when balance changes are still in the works, pikachu apparently has a lot of promise but kirby's been out of comission since melee and ultimate so far hasn't helped him out as much as other characters.

Based on this video I just saw, Kirby actually has some pretty huge buffs. I'm excited for this since I main him.

 

[BrytonJ]

Man, it really does make me sad that the D character got cut from Pikmin 3 literally only for the fact that it would've made perfect numbers for all a full range of 8 alt skins for Olimar. I guess we could get an echo fighter of Louie + Brittany to go along with Olimar + Alph (or The President + Charlie??) but in that case you'd think they'd have gone for Olimar + Louie and Alph + Brittany. Oh well! Maybe we'll at least get a new stage (on top of the Quaggled Mireclops? Eh? Eh?)

Also did someone make a post in here about their dad mooning them and then delete it or did i have some kind of fever dream.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Oh I did some research

Well I'm sure of you already know I figure out why Heihachi has ben added to rumors recently

Sakurai was highly considering him for smash 4 it was him or Pac-man he had no choice on Pac-man

Plus two reps from a company is a thing so

that's also explains the mii costume in smash 4 constellation prize purposes

So I'm sorry but now I see heihachi as a possible rep for dlc or base now

I highly think we'll be seeing either Heihachi or Lloyd Irving/Yuri Lowell, or maybe both, as characters in this game, whether it be in the base roster or as DLC.

Also, two laughable "leaks"

Spoiler: "Leak"

http://boards.4chan.org/v/thread/423509397
リークス/噂:
> Animal Crossing for Nintendo Switch Animal Crossing:未来の冒険
>ピーチプリンセスの年(1985年以来)
> Mario + Rabbids Kingdom Battle DLC:プリンセスデイジーはマリオとラビース、ワリオブラザーズに、ロザリーナは将来登場する予定です。
>スーパーマリオメーカー2
>スーパーマリオギャラクシー3
>ニンテンドースイッチ用マリオ野球
>メトロイドプライム4
>ニンテンドースイッチ用ペーパーマリオ
> SSBU:Smash、Simon Belmont、King K. Rool、Dixie Kong、Shadow、Ashleyなどがすぐに来ます
>ルイージの邸宅3、ルイージとデイジープリンセスの2人の演奏キャラクター
>スーパーマリオオデッセイDLC:ルイジは現在再生可能なキャラクターであり、また2つの王国にはサラサンドとDelfino島があります
> Yoshi最終的な名前はYoshi Flipped Adventureと呼ばれ、Birdoとしての再生可能なキャラクターを含む
>オンラインモードを含むスーパーマリオパーティー
>マリオテニスエースDLC:Dixie Kong、King K. Rool、King Boo(DLCキャラクターパック1)の5つのDLCキャラクターパックを含むFunky Kong、Wiggler and Metal Mario(DLCキャラクターパック2)Shadow Mario、Geno and Kritterパック3)ベビーマリオ、ナビット、ピンクゴールドピーチ(DLCキャラクターパック4)ゴールドマリオ、Cranky Kong and Pauline(DLCキャラクターパック5)
>ニンテンドースイッチ用マリオゴルフ
> WarioWare for Switch
>マリオ&ソニック、東京2020オリンピック大会、任天堂3DS、ニンテンドー3DSベビーマリオ、ベビーピーチ、ディキシーコング、トーデット、ポーリン、メタルマリオ、ピンクゴールドピーチ、イギークーパ、レミーミークーパ、モートンクーパジュニア、クーパトルーパー、シャイガイ、アシュリー(WarioWare Character)、ジーナ、インフィニットジャッキー、ストーム・ザ・アルバトロス、ティカル・エッキドナ、カオス・ゼロ、チャーミー・ビー、クラシック・ソニック、マイティ・ザ・アルマジロ、レイ・フライング・リス、ハニー・ザ・キャット、ビッグ・ザ・キャット。それは2019/2020のリリースだった
> Starfox Grand Prix Reveal Trailer
>ピクミン4
> Project Mario 2019
>ビッグマリング

This is literally another leak, but in Japanese.

Spoiler: "Leak" 2

Smash Leak

>July
Funky Kong DK ECHO
Adeleine
King K. Rool

>August
Elma
Lord Fawful

>September
Eggman (Dr. Robotnik)
ARMS fighters (Swappable ARMS chars)
King Boo (My main)
Shantae

>October
Ashley
Reimu
Excitebike Racer

>November
Skull Kid
Hector
Isaac (Golden Sun)
Travis Touchdown

>DLC Wave 1
Sora, Arle Nadja, Geno, Entei

>DLC Wave 2
Tingle, Hades, Isabelle, Steve

>DLC Wave 3
Xerneas, Dixie Kong

Literally just a wish list.

 

[P.Kat]

So, here is a question.

How likely do you think Isaac is?

Was the ballot enough to help him?

It's 50/50 to me since the ballot is his best chance, but the fact that his game ended on a cliffhanger, and hasn't gotten a new release since definitely doesn't help his chances, but luckily Sakurai is known for doing unpredictable things, so I won't count Isaac out yet, maybe he has plans for Isaac.

They are code named Foldable

So Labo for Smash. It was gonna happen eventually.

 

[Luminario]

"Mildly LoZ sounding"?
Zelda victory theme from Brawl onwards
Zelda 1 "Triforce piece obtained" theme

IT'S A REAL TUNE? I thought it was just a non-committal remix of the Overworld theme along with other various LoZ tunes.

 

[Idon]

But it's totally fine for the Koopalings to use Shadow Mario or for Alph to use Olimar's ship? Kind of a double standard if you ask me...

Sakurai is the king of inconstancy.
The one thing consistent about Sakurai is that he has no consistency. The Sakurai at the beginning of development won't be the same Sakurai in the middle of development nor will he be the same Sakurai at the end of development.

 

[P.Kat]

Unfortunately, I'd say he's fairly unlikely unless he did VERY well on the ballot. Isaac and the Golden Sun franchise seem to have been forgotten by Nintendo, so extreme fan support is probably the only way he'd get in at this point.


On another note, the Poochy discussion a few pages back reminded me that I'd really like to see him playable. I found a picture that visualizes what he could have for special moves:
View attachment 152125
I'm a big fan of the ideas here, but I think it'd be cool if the Poochy Pups from Woolly World could be included in the moveset somehow.

I would love to play as Poochy, as long as I can bury people in the ground like a bone.

Elma for Shulk’s rival or bust

Pls

Pls.

Why not add Rex & Pyra in too and make it a surprise triple quadruple threat match.

 

[UltimateCyborgOverlord]

More "leaks."

Spoiler: "Leak" 1

http://boards.4chan.org/v/thread/423183785
Don't ask me how I know, he (Zero from Megaman) just is. Capcom brought him to Sakurai and he liked the idea of having Zero represent Capcom's crossover fighting games.

And yes, he's probably going to be overpowered. It's tradition.

Expect a joint announcement between Capcom and Sakurai around EVO time.

Here's some proof I know what I know

Capcom will announce that the next season of SFV DLC is the last. It will focus on Third Strike fighters. And they're currently in the early stages of production of SFVI.

MvCi support is also done. The game bombed and it has no future with Capcom. They're cutting their losses.

Zero in Smash would be hype. Hopefully MMZ Zero is an alt.
[/SPOILER]

Soooo... about this one... and just to add some speculation to the fire too... *grabs the wood and drops it in the fire*

https://www.reddit.com/r/Kappa/comments/8wzt2d/street_fighter_vs_season_4_characters/

Vergeben is talking again... he says a bunch of stuff regarding Street Fighter V DLC, which is neat, but the BIG bombshell here is when he says:

"Oh, and I'll end with saying I heard that preliminary work on Street Fighter VI is underway, but is in the very early stages. SFV will remain a focus for Capcom until at least 2020/2021 still despite that from what I was told. "

He's also previously talked about Marvel VS Capcom Infinite getting... well... cut short.

Now the question is... did 4Chan leaker piggyback, lucky guess, or, to quote Beauty and the Beast, is there something there that wasn't there before?

 

[Deleted member]

See, I notice people talk about how "uninspired" or "boring" Sonic's moveset is (such as in the recent GameXplain Smash discussion). But I've known about these references to Fighters and Battle since the Brawl days, and I've always appreciated it.



Reminds me of this:

>Ridley and Daisy are at the top next to Goku.

I know this is a joke but.........

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Nah, his real rival is Shulk since he refuses to lose to anime.

So...Falcon hates anime in general...yet he was in one

But it's totally fine for the Koopalings to use Shadow Mario or for Alph to use Olimar's ship? Kind of a double standard if you ask me...

Helps that the Koopalings use Shellacopters like Jr does in the Mario games (and they also work for him I guess), but I can’t say much for Alph

 

[Guh-Huzzah!]

On the one hand: the ballot
On the other: Everyone returning taking up dev time.

Tense times to be a Smash fan

It is tense. Especially When people expect Sans. ._.

The people who putt Isaac on the ballot ;

Although I would like him on the roster too (I mean the more the merrier), I think most people haven't played the golden sun games, it has been a while he has had a game. And more people would have likely voted on more popular or iconic characters. (I put Belmont and Rayman on it myself )

That's true. He was a heavily supported Character like Rayman and Shovel Knight. but his series sadly isn't popular enough to get in the game. I've never played a Golden Sun game, but out of what i know, he could make a very unique and fun fighter.

I liked Sonic 06, but Elise was just an awful character. Not just the design alone(the humans looked awful too), but her being kidnapped multiple times per game was really stupid. I'm not all that bothered that she wasn't a very social person(considering she was brought up in a castle all her life) or that she had a crush on the hero who rescued her(and kept rescuing her). That's not that odd. Crushes happen. It's just the fact they thought to keep her fairly bland while continuing to have her kidnapped over and over. Considering the whole "reasoning she won't cry" was a better idea to work with, they missed a lot of chances for better character development.

Thankfully Mephiles is just a better character, though he lacks potential development, it didn't matter since he was more intended to be an antagonist and not constantly interact with, and he's still less bland.

Liking Sonic 06 Is a sin. Nah I'm kidding. Honestly, i haven't played it, so i can't say much except Elise is the worst idea ever. It'd probably be acceptable if there wasn't Elise and Wasn't so many bugs.

 

[YoshiandToad]

So I've been thinking about potential newcomers and I just realized that as far as newcomers are concerned, we could be seeing something similar to Melee's newcomer in that the unique choices are mostly fan requests or legacy characters and quite a bit of clones added as extra. Let's take a look at Melee's roster:

Interesting. Toad was 9th, and Gooey(my favourite Kirby character outside a certain spear user) ranked in 15th above even Metaknight. Huh.

...wait, the translation I've got for number 18 is literally "Someone from Pokemon" that's pretty amusing.

 

[Jetsurge]

I pray to Sakurai that we get a newcomer reveal announcement this week

 

[Deleted member]

Interesting. Toad was 9th, and Gooey(my favourite Kirby character outside a certain spear user) ranked in 15th above even Metaknight. Huh.

...wait, the translation I've got for number 18 is literally "Someone from Pokemon" that's pretty amusing.

I’m honestly surprised Toad isn’t one of the most wanted. You would think that had Sakurai not relegated him to a shield, the Mario fandom would be clamoring for him in unison like K. Rool.

 

[FantasticMr.StarPit]

I pray to Sakurai that we get a newcomer reveal announcement this week

Something tells me its not gonna happen right now. But if it does It's going to be the newcomer that, is not all that exciting to me, Bandana Dee or the Chorus Kids, and that's just my assumption. We don't even know if we'll get it or not.