Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[justPUNT3R]

New Stage Idea: Poochy

it's big poochy

you can fight on top of him

I have to disagree (not to bash your opinion), but I think it would be better if the stage is a giant platform with Poochy occasionally hopping in as a stage hazard. I still love your idea.

 

[Will]

I have to disagree (not to bash your opinion), but I think it would be better if the stage is a giant platform with Poochy occasionally hopping in as a stage hazard. I still love your idea.

are you implying poochy is a hazard to our health? You monster.

 

[justPUNT3R]

are you implying poochy is a hazard to our health? You monster.

No, not at all.

I'm saying multiple Pooches is good for our health.

 

[King Sonnn DeDeDoo]

I see Poochy more as Assist Trophy material. In fact, why haven't they got on that yet?

Yeah he probably is better suited for an assist trophy material, I hope he has his Woolly design if he gets in as an assist.

Not surely exactly what he would do, maybe he could work like gogoat where you can ride on top of him.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

You know, even if news are scarce for the next few months, at least the "Everyone is here!" meme vids are endlessly amusing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOo45x9g8Gw

Kool-Aid Man is too OP, please nerf.

 

[justPUNT3R]

You know, even if news are scarce for the next few months, at least the "Everyone is here!" meme vids are endlessly amusing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOo45x9g8Gw

Kool-Aid Man is too OP, please nerf.

LOL I love the ones by The Beanery

 

[Slavic]

I have to disagree (not to bash your opinion), but I think it would be better if the stage is a giant platform with Poochy occasionally hopping in as a stage hazard. I still love your idea.

actually after making that joke I thought a Yoshi's Island scrolling stage where you occasionally have to ride on Poochy to get past death spikes or something could be cool.

Implying a scrolling stage could ever be cool

 

[92MilesPrower]

*AUX CALL PUSH SELECT*

Snake: Colonel, do you have any idea what's going on? It looks like I'm fighting myself... again!

Colonel: It seems so... but how do I know that you're not the copy? For all I know, you could be the imposter, trying to get information out of me on the real Snake and everything that we know!

Snake: Are you kidding me?! You have to believe me, Colonel, I'm the real one!

Snake (2): Stop parading around with my appearance, I'm the real Snake!

Snake: What the- you got into this channel too?!

Snake (2): How wouldn't I, I know everything that you know... In fact, I probably know everything that you're planning to do!

Snake: And how is that going to help you? I know everything that you're going to do!

Snake (2): This is getting ridiculous... let's just settle this with our fists and see who's the real deal.

Snake: Fine.

 

[ColietheGoalie]

Dixie could easily be a clone. She’s the same build as Diddy, and is canonically/physically capable of all Diddy’s moves. Easy clone. Obviously her fans feel it would be a disservice, but all clone characters have been there before.

——————————————

Poochy needs to be in the game in some for. My vote is assist trophy. That’d finally give Yoshi something outside of stages too!

In fact I’ve been keeping track of content, and I’m really hoping the series that have no stage/assist trophies get something this time.

 

[Arcanir]

Here's my two cents on the Echo issue:

When looking at whether a character can or can't be an echo, the question shouldn't be 'the character could very well be unique, so they shouldn't be an Echo', it should be 'is what makes them unique makes them impossible to be an Echo'.

For the latter, remember the previous example of Dillon/Sonic that we talked about. Dillon does share some similarities with Sonic, enough that it's been brought up from time to time and he could theoretically reuse some assets from him, but what makes him unfeasible is that Dillion's proportions make him a poor fit for Sonic's moveset. Sonic's legs are long and he relies on a lot of kicks, Dillon's are stubby and he can't use those kicks without multiple tweaks, and the same goes for a couple other moves like the spikes. What makes Dillon unique is what makes him unfeasible for the role as he'd require multiple changes to work, something that goes against the idea of Echoes since by nature they're extras that don't require a lot of resources to function.

For the former, the fact of the matter is that when you get down to it, most clone characters in the game can easily be unique as all of them have lore, game play or traits that can easily translate to being a character that plays differently from their counterpart. Lucina for instance canonically doesn't fight the same and should be closer to Ike if anything due to inheriting her father's fighting style, Daisy never uses Toads, float, vegetable or other similar moves, but that doesn't prevent her from pulling them out for hers, even examples like Dark Pit can be different since he has his staff and can use the other weapons, but that didn't stop him from being a clone. What made those characters unique was not enough to prevent them from being made clones when push came to shove, and we can't ignore that just because it already happened for them, but didn't happen for the other characters yet.

The same can hold true for examples like Dark Samus. Yeah, she can fight differently from Samus, you can look at her boss fights for that, but nothing about that prevents her from being an Echo. Canonically she does use moves like the Morph Ball, canonically she does steal Samus' abilities, and canonically she does use Samus' form as a template for her own. The character by nature is a derivative of Samus, and while there is a lot you can do to make her unique (and I would love to see that personally), there's also a lot she shares that can make her an easy clone. She doesn't have what Dillon has that prevents him from being an Echo (ex. unfitting proportions), and thus she can easily have what happened to those like Lucina happen to her. That's not impossible and we have to keep that in mind when arguing her potential as a character, and the same holds true for characters like Impa or Hilda.

In short, when analyzing what can make a character an Echo, don't exclusively think 'well this character can be unique, so they can't.' Think about what makes them unique and what makes them similar, and then think about whether what makes them unique can prevent them from drawing heavily from what makes them similar to their counterpart.

*Also, fun fact: Dark Samus's animations for her AT reuses some from Samus. Her Phazon tentacles uses Samus' Down Tilt, the Phazon spheres uses her Up Smash, and the Scattershot uses her Missile animation. So that example is actually a mixed one since her similarities from Samus is what allowed her to use her counterpart as a base for her AT.

 

[ReeseBalaski]

*AUX CALL PUSH SELECT*

Snake: Colonel, do you have any idea what's going on? It looks like I'm fighting myself... again!

Colonel: It seems so... but how do I know that you're not the copy? For all I know, you could be the imposter, trying to get information out of me on the real Snake and everything that we know!

Snake: Are you kidding me?! You have to believe me, Colonel, I'm the real one!

Snake (2): Stop parading around with my appearance, I'm the real Snake!

Snake: What the- you got into this channel too?!

Snake (2): How wouldn't I, I know everything that you know... In fact, I probably know everything that you're planning to do!

Snake: And how is that going to help you? I know everything that you're going to do!

Snake (2): This is getting ridiculous... let's just settle this with our fists and see who's the real deal.

Snake: Fine.

Touching on this, there's a petition on Change.org going around to give Snake his butt back. Is anybody interested in signing. (>'.')>

 

[justPUNT3R]

Dixie could easily be a clone. She’s the same build as Diddy, and is canonically/physically capable of all Diddy’s moves. Easy clone. Obviously her fans feel it would be a disservice, but all clone characters have been there before.

——————————————

Poochy needs to be in the game in some for. My vote is assist trophy. That’d finally give Yoshi something outside of stages too!

In fact I’ve been keeping track of content, and I’m really hoping the series that have no stage/assist trophies get something this time.

Dixie has a lot for her to make herself a semi-clone.

 

[Opossum]

The day Dry Bowser becomes an echo fighter while Alph is stuck as an alternate costume is the day I'm convinced there's no justice left in the world.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

Dixie could easily be a clone. She’s the same build as Diddy, and is canonically/physically capable of all Diddy’s moves. Easy clone. Obviously her fans feel it would be a disservice, but all clone characters have been there before.

Ever since the introduction of Echoes everyone's been writing her off as a Dark Pit- or Lucina-style clone, which is the main reason I'm against anything below semi-clone. Her hair is the thing that sets her apart from the other Kongs; to not have that in her moveset is absurd, especially considering how well-deigned the other Donkey Kong characters are.

 

[justPUNT3R]

The day Dry Bowser becomes an echo fighter while Alph is stuck as an alternate costume is the day I'm convinced there's no justice left in the world.

Just like in PM, I think he would be an alt.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

The day Dry Bowser becomes an echo fighter while Alph is stuck as an alternate costume is the day I'm convinced there's no justice left in the world.

Well consider me a criminal then, because I still remain a heavy supporter for Dry Bowser

 

[P.Kat]

Thank you


So basically like how DMC has three characters Dante, Vergil, and Nero I think this is going to happen to Bayonetta in the third game.

If it does this third character might be in Smash for promotional purposes.

I can see that happening, someone needs to help Jeanne bring Bayonetta back to life.

 

[KMDP]

Snake (2): How wouldn't I, I know everything that you know... In fact, I probably know everything that you're planning to do!

Snake: And how is that going to help you? I know everything that you're going to do!

STRANGE, ISN'T IT!?

--In reply to King Sonnn DeDeDoo --

Yeah he probably is better suited for an assist trophy material, I hope he has his Woolly design if he gets in as an assist.

Not surely exactly what he would do, maybe he could work like gogoat where you can ride on top of him.

The idea I posited a while ago was that Poochy could run around, like Gogoat, if you're still standing on him when he leaves, he digs up an item for you, you auto-equip the item if your hands are free.
Something like that.

 

[92MilesPrower]

STRANGE, ISN'T IT!?

I 100% expected you out of everyone here to catch on with that reference.

 

[KMDP]

I 100% expected you out of everyone here to catch on with that reference.

You were right to expect such a thing.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

View attachment 152025

Spent a bit of time trying to solve it, and this is what I got. (King K. Rool, Ashley, Mach Rider, Paper Mario, Erdrick (Dragon Quest Protag), Isaac, Rayman, Impa)

ELM...B

Dammit, I was so close!

(Never mind, found it later)

Any other new leaks surface lately?

 

[ColietheGoalie]

Dixie has a lot for her to make herself a semi-clone.

Ever since the introduction of Echoes everyone's been writing her off as a Dark Pit- or Lucina-style clone, which is the main reason I'm against anything below semi-clone. Her hair is the thing that sets her apart from the other Kongs; to not have that in her moveset is absurd, especially considering how well-deigned the other Donkey Kong characters are.

That’s my point though. She DOES have lots that can make her unique (and that’s the better outcome) but the argument that she “can’t be a clone/echo” simply doesn’t hold water.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

I wonder when the next Nintendo Direct will be. We know that they'll probably do one for the new Fire Emblem game before it's release but it'll probably be next year.

 

[Deleted member]

Unrelated to the current echo discussion, but I'm so glad custom moves are (probably) out. I've just spent 2 hours grinding to get one specific Olimar move and I still don't have it. This stuff could've been fixed so easily, but no. The only way to unlock most moves is completely random with a chance of getting duplicate moves for no reason.

 

[justPUNT3R]

That’s my point though. She DOES have lots that can make her unique (and that’s the better outcome) but the argument that she “can’t be a clone/echo” simply doesn’t hold water.

I guess you are right, if they only change 3 things about her (Which is fine by me.), they could call her an echo. I would just like it if she was a semi.

 

[Idon]

If they make Dixie a semi, I hope she has less speed than Diddy. As an Ike main, I've just about had it with small animals scratching my face off and women in skintight suits kicking me into the stratosphere.

 

[KMDP]

That’s my point though. She DOES have lots that can make her unique (and that’s the better outcome) but the argument that she “can’t be a clone/echo” simply doesn’t hold water.

True.

However, my rebuttal is thus:

Lucina is at least partially defined by the fact she disguised herself as Marth, the fact that she was an alt costume was probably part of an in-joke.​

Dark Pit is a literal copy-paste of Pit, it makes sense he'd fight the exact same way as Pit.​

With only one official, Gameboy-era game: Daisy has very little to go on in terms of moveset potential. And nothing in Mario 'Canon' says she can't do the things Peach does, or that there are no Toads in Sarasaland. Until someone like Miyamoto explicitly says "There are/are not Toads in Sarasaland" or "Daisy can/can't do [x] that Peach does", we can't say one way or another.​

​

Dixie has never played the exact same way as Diddy in any of the platformers she has appeared in. Yes, they have similar body sizes, but to argue that they have the exact same capabilities and that Dixie can therefore be an Echo of Diddy is lunacy. She's more like Donkey Kong than Diddy Kong in Donkey Kong Country.

 

[justPUNT3R]

If they make Dixie a semi, I hope she has less speed than Diddy. As an Ike main, I've just about had it with small animals scratching my face off and women in skintight suits kicking me into the stratosphere.

I agree, maybe she could have a slightly better recovery, or something else. Like slightly less range, but also they are slightly stronger. Tell me what you guys think, I want constructive critique, plz.

 

[Deleted member]

Guys, Bubsy is listed in the IMDB page for Ultimate.
Should we be scared?

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Guys, Bubsy is listed in IMDB.
Should we be scared?

Anyone can edit IMDB, I wouldn’t be worried. It’s probably just a troll.

 

[Blargg888]

So, just got a Question for all of you, What's your Favorite Skin for your main/mains?

Mine is the Yellow Kirby for Kirby, Because It's a callback to Kirby's Dream Course, and who doesn't like playing as a bassically golden kirby?

I'm very late with this, but:
: Default
: Default Female Corrin
: Fire Luigi or Default
: Fire Mario or Default (Possibly Builder Mario)
Gunner: Either Steampunk Outfit + Top Hat, or Business Suit + No Hat
Brawler: Either Standard Outfit + Luigi Hat, or Vampire Outfit + Hibiscus
Swordfighter: Either Sweatshirt + No Hat, or Knight Armor + Spiny Hat
Either Default, Green, Blue, or Light Blue
Oven Mitts
Green Headband
Either Japanese Default Colors or English Default Colors
:ultrobinEither Default Male Robin, or Default Female Robin
Green Armor
Standard Overalls Color

Unrelated to the current echo discussion, but I'm so glad custom moves are (probably) out. I've just spent 2 hours grinding to get one specific Olimar move and I still don't have it. This stuff could've been fixed so easily, but no. The only way to unlock most moves is completely random with a chance of getting duplicate moves for no reason.

I mean, I get what you're saying, but Custom Moves themselves were never an issue (generally speaking), it was just the unlocking methods.

If they had been either say, one a piece, or maybe even just all unlocked from the start, I really don't think people would hate them as much.

 

[Luig]

Guys, Bubsy is listed in the IMDB page for Ultimate.
Should we be scared?

For a while, Content Cop was rated as the number 1 cop show on imdb. it's just a wiki, and people like to troll it sometimes.

 

[justPUNT3R]

Guys, Bubsy is listed in the IMDB page for Ultimate.
Should we be scared?

And he'd be a joke character, like Pichu. So I wouldn't be upset. Heck, I'd main 'I'm as a joke, like I do with Pichu (sorry this became about me).

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

That’s my point though. She DOES have lots that can make her unique (and that’s the better outcome) but the argument that she “can’t be a clone/echo” simply doesn’t hold water.

She COULD but that would mean completely not acknowledging what has been her signature ability since her debut and has used in every DKC game she's been playable in, I just don't think Sakurai would do that. Her using the jetpack also wouldn't make any sense

 

[Idon]

I agree, maybe she could have a slightly better recovery, or something else. Like slightly less range, but also they are slightly stronger. Tell me what you guys think, I want constructive critique, plz.

I'm not a huge DKC player. All I know about Dixie is that she has the hairocopter.

 

[KMDP]

Guys, Bubsy is listed in the IMDB page for Ultimate.
Should we be scared?

Yes. Be afraid. Very afraid.

A-furred of the coming Punderstorm.
Oh no, it's already started spreading!

 

[Zeox]

I think Octoling could definitely happen

I don't see it, the roster was decided in 2015, in that time, Octolings didn't have their male counterpart.

 

[Deleted member]

I mean, I get what you're saying, but Custom Moves themselves were never an issue (generally speaking), it was just the unlocking methods.

Yeah, I know. If they changed the unlock requirements, they'd be fine, but if they were going to leave the the same, taking them out is preferred. I just want to test my non-functioning Pikmin Pluck mod so Solimar dittos will be easier...

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

I don't see it, the roster was decided in 2015, in that time, Octolings didn't have their male counterpart.

As an echo they could have been a much later addition though, who knows if echoes were planned from the start or not. And octolings have always been planned to have a male variant and presumably to have a bigger role in splatoon 2. Nintendo also called 2018 the "year of the octoling" so adding them at the last minute to fit in with that makes sense.

 

[Deleted member]

Anyone can edit IMDB, I wouldn’t be worried. It’s probably just a troll.

For a while, Content Cop was rated as the number 1 cop show on imdb. it's just a wiki, and people like to troll it sometimes.

Guilty as charged, lol.
Should've waited for someone to notice and point it out