Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[RileyXY1]

K. Rool is a fan favorite and Simon has the Vergeben leaks backing him up.

I don't think that Sakurai is gonna go that safe. They need some WTF characters.

 

[KMDP]

Yes, but you don't see too many people clamoring for Mappy, or Taizo Hori from Dig Dug (who got the most badass design in Namco X Capcom), or Valkyrie, or the Time Crisis leads, or poor Klonoa.

...Digimon... Just saying...

God. They were a big thing in the late 90s and 2000s, you'd think the series'd get more respect.

 

[Idon]

I don't think that Sakurai is gonna go that safe. They need some WTF characters.

At the same time, Sakurai also has plenty of "Well, that was obvious it would eventually happen" characters as well.

Not everything Sakurai does is random and obscure.

 

[Murlough]

Yeah, like Digimon, which is still absolutely still a thing in Japan and Latin America, even if Europe and North America no longer care.

I still care, Digimon, I still care.

I tried to care but the mobile game klorf'd me out of my money.

It can't even be called pay to win. Even if you pay money you have to grind like your life depends on it. Worst business practice I had ever personally experienced. Then again I haven't played a game by EA in several years.

(and no I didn't purchase a ton of gems or whatever to try and get ahead. I wanted Beelzemon........and I am a weak fool who didn't wanna wait....)

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

These fan rosters and leaks have no variety. They always have the same characters. There's always Simon and K. Rool, and almost always Dixie, Bandanna Dee, a Gen VII Pokemon, and Elma.

Then tell me who you'd put in a fake leak to sound convincing.

Honestly, I want to know your thoughts.

Also K. Rool and Simon don't show up in every leak, only most.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I don't think that Sakurai is gonna go that safe. They need some WTF characters.

: "HI! I'M DAISY!"

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

...Digimon... Just saying...

God. They were a big thing in the late 90s and 2000s, you'd think it'd get more respect.

That's more on Bandai's side, to be fair. At least the Digimon Story games got brought over after the fiasco that was the All-Stars Rumble fighter.

 

[Idon]

Then tell me who you'd put in a fake leak to sound convincing.

Honestly, I want to know your thoughts.

Also K. Rool and Simon don't show up in every leak, only most.

At this point, NO leak sounds reasonable.
includes safe picks
"bah, this is too safe! Sakurai would never go with a cast this obvious!"
includes risky picks
"bah, this is too out there! Sakurai would never be so dumb as to choose a character that is as obscure as this!"

I think everyone's just too jaded to fall for these kinds of things again, especially with how many there are.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

Anyone else notice that these ATs are pretty much consolation prizes like the Mii Costumes were?

Krystal, Waluigi, and Bomberman were all pretty heavily requested, the latter two especially.

 

[cmbsfm]

Because that crossover was for Nintendo's biggest competition, and Sakurai may end up advertising the PlayStation by putting him in.

It’s a little too late for that, he’s got a mii costume already, so...

 

[KMDP]

I tried to care but the mobile game klorf'd me out of my money.

It can't even be called pay to win. Even if you pay money you have to grind like your life depends on it. Worst business practice I had ever personally experienced. Then again I haven't played a game by EA in several years.

(and no I didn't purchase a ton of gems or whatever to try and get ahead. I wanted Beelzemon........and I am a weak fool who didn't wanna wait....)

Beelzemon in Cyber Sleuth and Next 0rder is great, when he 'runs' behind you, a motorbike materializes out of nowhere for him to ride (literally, it just grows in from nothing)

It's pretty great. XD One of my favourite WTF parts of those games.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Lizardman got bird wings in SC5, it always reminded me of Yoshi’s final smash.

Yeah, WTF was up with that. It was beyond bizarre.

I got a cheap PS2 on ebay for the express purpose of playing SCIII, which was probably the best game in the series. IV and V were literal trash.

 

[RileyXY1]

I tried to care but the mobile game klorf'd me out of my money.

It can't even be called pay to win. Even if you pay money you have to grind like your life depends on it. Worst business practice I had ever personally experienced. Then again I haven't played a game by EA in several years.

(and no I didn't purchase a ton of gems or whatever to try and get ahead. I wanted Beelzemon........and I am a weak fool who didn't wanna wait....)

There's still the recently released Hacker's Memory. Which is actually a good game. Well, both Cyber Sleuth games are.

Yes, but you don't see too many people clamoring for Mappy, or Taizo Hori from Dig Dug (who got the most badass design in Namco X Capcom), or Valkyrie, or the Time Crisis leads, or poor Klonoa.

Klonoa is somewhat demanded and he's getting his own movie. That's enough to make him noticeable, but not enough to make him likely.

: "HI! I'M DAISY!"

Daisy is very popular. She is in pretty much every single Mario spinoff. She was just overshadowed by Waluigi because of memes.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Daisy is very popular. She is in pretty much every single Mario spinoff. She was just overshadowed by Waluigi because of memes.

But did people expect her in Smash? Sure, she had her fanbase, but it's not like everyone expected her to be a playable character and those who did certainly didn't expect her to be a Peach clone.

She qualifies as a WTF character.

 

[Chandeelure]

There was a problem fetching the tweet

She is here.

It's not the Kirby with human arms, I swear.

 

[Mega Bidoof]

Vision from a strange Dimension where every third party gets a second rep...

Snake > Raiden
Sonic > Tails
Megaman > Zero
Pac-Man > Ms. Pac-Man
Ryu > Ken
Cloud > Tifa Sephiroth
Bayonetta > Jeanne

...You never know, this might happen.

My personal picks would be

Snake - either Big Boss (could be a semi-clone with unique specials) or Raiden (as a unique character, but another sworduser)

Sonic - Eggman (in a walker mech like Sonic Adventure 2)

Megaman - Megaman X (using various powers from the X series; maybe with a slight redesign closer to his actual sprite, like regular Megaman got in Smash 4, though I’d be ok with just following the box art)

Pac-Man - Ms. Pac-Man (I’d love a unique newcomer but Pac-Man doesn’t have any characters outside of the Adventure games, but Smash Pac-Man is supposed to be classic arcade Pac-Man)

Ryu - Dhalsim (I know next to nothing about Street Fighter but he seems like a pretty cool dude, and he could beat Spring-Man to be the first stretchy arms character)

Cloud - Barret (a cool heavyweight gunner) or Sephiroth (more iconic, another villain, but a sworduser which people are kinda tired of)

Bayonetta - Rodin (he’s deconfirmed but he’s just the definition of cool and I’d love to have him in)

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Honestly, I think this GameFAQs thread is the most accurate depiction of Smash leaks this time around:
where was that leak that tomorrow would be King K Rool on the website?

I thought it was the 9th. Could be wrong.

I thought it was Friday the 19th.

In any case K Rool will be “revealed” on the 9th.

I think it was the 29th

This is as accurate as it gets.

 

[RileyXY1]

But did people expect her in Smash? Sure, she had her fanbase, but it's not like everyone expected her to be a playable character, especially not as a Peach clone.

She qualifies as a WTF character.

As I said, Daisy was just overshadowed by Waluigi because of memes. She is not a WTF character. Those are typically far more obscure.

 

[Murlough]

There's still the recently released Hacker's Memory. Which is actually a good game. Well, both Cyber Sleuth games are.

Klonoa is somewhat demanded and he's getting his own movie. That's enough to make him noticeable, but not enough to make him likely.

Daisy is very popular. She is in pretty much every single Mario spinoff. She was just overshadowed by Waluigi because of memes.

Daisy, for the majority of the communtiy, was a pretty big WTF character. Like, yeah us crazy Daisy fans wouldn't shut up about her but everyone else was dead set on Captain Toad or Waluigi giving her next to no chance.

EDIT: Actually, I worded this badly too. I don't think many Daisy fans actually expected her. For the most part we just said why we thought she deserves a spot. So yeah she was a WTF for almost everyone, from what I can tell.

Also, I don't own a Playstation and I don't think it released on PC......otherwise I would probably try it. I'm never going to appreciate it the way I do Pokemon, though. I also doubt I'll ever be all for a Digimon getting into Smash.

Agumon would be cool but it would be the next WTF character for me.

 

[Zinith]

There was a problem fetching the tweet

She is here.

It's not the Kirby with human arms, I swear.

It could be this:

Spoiler

Cross promotion with Yoshi...

 

[KMDP]

There's still the recently released Hacker's Memory. Which is actually a good game. Well, both Cyber Sleuth games are.

I was so disappointed that BeelStarrmon wasn't in Hacker's Memory.

I wanted girl Beelzemon, damnit!

0/10 Worst Game Ever.

Okay, I'm joking, Hacker's Memory was great. XD

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

As I said, Daisy was just overshadowed by Waluigi because of memes. She is not a WTF character. Those are typically far more obscure.

I don't think they'll focus on obscure characters this time around

 

[RileyXY1]

Daisy, for the majority of the communtiy, was a pretty big WTF character. Like, yeah us crazy Daisy fans wouldn't shut up about her but everyone else was dead set on Captain Toad or Waluigi giving her next to no chance.

Also, I don't own a Playstation and I don't think it released on PC......otherwise I would probably try it. I'm never going to appreciate it the way I do Pokemon, though. I also doubt I'll ever be all for a Digimon getting into Smash.

Agumon would be cool but it would be the next WTF character for me.

Daisy is far too popular to be a WTF character. Those tend to be obscure characters that you would've probably never heard of before, like Captain Falcon, Ness, Ice Climbers, Mr. Game & Watch, Marth, Roy, Pit, R.O.B, Lucas, Wii Fit Trainer, and Duck Hunt.

 

[Wyoming]

There was a problem fetching the tweet

She is here.

It's not the Kirby with human arms, I swear.

Very nice touch to include Ribbon. They havent changed in two decades...

 

[Omega Tyrant]

I forgot Meowth. That is the short answer.

The long answer is that not a lot of Pokémon who are confirmed Poké Ball Pokémon are good for Playable Status (Goldeen, any Flying mon, Quadrupeds etc), also I forgot Meowth.

Gardevoir hasn't been confirmed as a pokeball pokemon yet and is still MIA.

I see where you're going with here, still its weird to see an assist trophy turned into a fighter too quickly; it defeats the point of having them as an assist trophy in the first place. just saying.

The point of ATs are to give popular/significant characters who didn't make the playable roster an active ingame role, not to slot characters in a designated assist role. If the opportunity arises that they can make the roster, the AT role will not be prioritized over becoming playable.

 

[Chandeelure]

It could be this:

Spoiler

Cross promotion with Yoshi...

I really love the castle that guy has in Yoshi's Island.

Well, I love Yoshi's Island in general lol.

 

[Arcanir]

More "leaks."

Spoiler: "Leak" 1

http://boards.4chan.org/v/thread/423183785
Don't ask me how I know, he (Zero from Megaman) just is. Capcom brought him to Sakurai and he liked the idea of having Zero represent Capcom's crossover fighting games.

And yes, he's probably going to be overpowered. It's tradition.

Expect a joint announcement between Capcom and Sakurai around EVO time.

Here's some proof I know what I know

Capcom will announce that the next season of SFV DLC is the last. It will focus on Third Strike fighters. And they're currently in the early stages of production of SFVI.

MvCi support is also done. The game bombed and it has no future with Capcom. They're cutting their losses.

Zero in Smash would be hype. Hopefully MMZ Zero is an alt.

Spoiler: "Leak" 2

https://boards.fireden.net/v/thread/420623896/
All returning characters + 8 brand newcomers and 3 echo fighters.

Newcomers are: Inkling, Ridley, Simon Belmont, Chorus Kids, King K. Rool, Elma from Xenoblade X, Dixie Kong (not a clone, but she has some moves that resemble Dixie, like her tilts) and Ashley.

The echo fighters are Daisy, Dark Samus and Octoling.

No DQ rep and no Sora either. I don't know nothing about DLC though.

Adventure Mode returns but uses extended versions of some stages instead of exclusive field stages. I don't know if that sounds clear enough.

Yes, and it (Adventure Mode) is indeed a sequel to Subspace Emisary, although details about it are very scarce, since apparently there's a debate about whether delay it to include DLC characters in it if they are made (which I guess they will probably be made) or just go with the Brawl formula of going to secret places to unlock characters that don't appear in that mode like Jiggs, Wolf and T. Link.

All stages return sans Miiverse and Hanenbow, for some weird reason.

Yes, there is a story mode.

Classic mode is same as always, but the final boss after Master/Master and Crazy hands isn't Master Core like in Smash 4, but instead, Final Destination. Yep, the stage itself becomes the enemy and has some weird phases and changes.

This one was shown to me by @perfectchaos83 and has seemingly been taken down from 4chan. I can't even find it on my archive either. Weird. All Stages returning minus Miiverse and Hanenbow seems unlikely though.

Spoiler: "Leak" 3

>K.Rool is a newcomer, relatively heavy, uses DKC1 design, has DKC2, 3, & 64 skins
>Geno is one of two main (there are 3 but one is an echo) third party fighters in this game, attacks can be hit at the right time for extra damage
>Ashley has gotten the Little Mac treatment, uses lots of projectiles
>Bandana Dee uses a mix of Beam, Spear, Parasol, and a bit of Staff
>Tibby, his attacks have a beat that can be pressed to for lots of combo-ing and extra damage
>Simon Belmont, the other big third party character, uses long ranged whip attacks
>Shadow, an Echo of Sonic, main difference is final smash, Chaos Control
>Ninten, an Echo of Ness, final smash is PK Beam, otherwise the same
>Dark Samus, an Echo of Samus
>Isabelle, an Echo of Villager

Regular stuff.

1) Zero would be cool, but I doubt it since if Capcom/Sakurai wanted to 'represent' crossover games I'd think they'd go with Chun-Li or Morrigan over him, and that's assuming Sakurai would want a 'rep' for that in the first place

2) Rumor 2 must be really popular as that's at least four times we've seen that exact set up of characters, and at least twice that I've seen the adventure mode thing mentioned in conjunction with it. IIRC, this one first popped up around E3 from a user claiming to be a journalist and he had the same basic structure, so it's interesting that it's been referred to this much.

 

[RileyXY1]

I don't think they'll focus on obscure characters this time around

They're not gonna put in all fan favorites. That's just not Smash. Smash has never been about only including popular and relevant characters.

 

[TheDukeofDorks]

Classic mode is same as always, but the final boss after Master/Master and Crazy hands isn't Master Core like in Smash 4, but instead, Final Destination. Yep, the stage itself becomes the enemy and has some weird phases and changes.

Having to fight the stage itself sounds like an awesome concept, regardless of the validity of this. Not a Master Fortress kind of situation, an actual stage that's constantly moving and morphing.

 

[papagenos]

So I've been seeing a lot of people placing Mii costume characters on their rosters (I'm looking at you papagenos ) I want to see if I can change your mind.

I believe that Assist Trophy characters and Mii costume characters are actually less likely than characters who don't have any representation in Smash.

I believe when Sakurai reviews a character he looks at these attributes in this order: Does the character have longevity? Ie does their series have a future. Is the character popular and it is important that the character should be popular among multiple regions. Finally, does the character have good moveset potential that will differentiate them from the rest of the roster and expand Smash as a whole. Sure, A character can still be the weak in one area but so strong in another that they make it in.

I am starting to believe that AT and costumes were made because they were too weak in too many of these areas and therefore Sakurai didn't see them ever making it into Smash. Now this can change, for example Little Mac. at the time when he was made into an AT I believe Sakurai saw his moveset as being minimal and not able to function in Smash. More importantly though I think his lack of a future installment doomed his fate. Come to Smash 4 with him still being popular and having a new title I believe Sakurai was willing to revisit the idea. Another example would be Krystal. After the Starfox series was rebooted and her longevity was in question I believe he gave up on the idea of her as being a potential fighter and has thus resigned her into being an AT.

In terms of costumes I think it is worse. I think there is a mentality of "I will make this character a costume because this is the only way their fan will be able to play as this character" I think this holds/held particularly true for Geno, Ashley, and Takamaru. We know Sakurai has wanted Geno and Takamaru in the game but I don't think he is willing to let his bias/desire get in the way of pleasing his community/making the best game possible. Sure there are exceptions, There are always exceptions, Like some costumes may have been completely meant for promotional reasons and are not weak in the three "golden areas" and are therefore still a candidate. But for everyone else I'd recommend that we all sit back and ask why they were added.

i disagree obviously, but hey good points my rebuttal is just that i DO think some of the Mii costumes are there to tide fans over with ballot choices that couldnt be realized YET, but my only hard evidence is inklings who were getting in with or without the ballot or mii costumes.

So we'll just have to wait and see.

 

[SmashingXan2]

I don't think that Sakurai is gonna go that safe. They need some WTF characters.

Doesn't mean fan favorites don't be in it

 

[Murlough]

Daisy is far too popular to be a WTF character. Those tend to be obscure characters that you would've probably never heard of before, like Captain Falcon, Ness, Ice Climbers, Mr. Game & Watch, Marth, Roy, Pit, R.O.B, Lucas, Wii Fit Trainer, and Duck Hunt.

What Smash player didn't know who Wii Fit Trainer was?

Your criteria made sense up until her. But thats just for me. Your criteria as a whole are completely subjective. I don't think Captain Falcon was considering a WTF character back in the 64 era.

 

[RileyXY1]

Doesn't mean fan favorites don't be in it

There's gonna be some, like Ridley, but not all of the newcomers are going to be highly demanded characters.

 

[King Sonnn DeDeDoo]

Really? I haven't followed Soulcalibur since the mediocrity that was Legends, so I had no idea...

Lol you didn’t miss much with SC5, but I liked what they did with Lizardman in that game despite how bizarre it was, 2 axes, bird wings and he even shoots fire out of his mouth like super dragon Yoshi.

Yeah, WTF was up with that. It was beyond bizarre.

I got a cheap PS2 on ebay for the express purpose of playing SCIII, which was probably the best game in the series. IV and V were literal trash.

I liked IV, I’d be lying if I say I didn’t have fun with the large roster, character creation, and Darth Vader. Still it’s nothing compared to 2 or 3. Personally 2 is my favorite, but that probably due to Link (I still want Link to have a rematch with Nightmare on his own turf)

V Is trash. Patrokolo or what ever his name is, was the worst protagonists in any game I’ve played.

 

[ChronoBound]

two words: akira toriyama

(he did the CT characters and, last I heard, he had some involvement with CC)

Akira Toriyama was not involved at all with Chrono Cross. Neither was much of the Dream Team (notably Yuji Horii and Hironobu Sakaguchi were not involved either).

 

[RileyXY1]

What Smash player didn't know who Wii Fit Trainer was?

Just about everyone who isn't a fitness junkie. No one requested her for the game. She was added just to be a WTF character. I'm serious.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Akira Toriyama was not involved at all with Chrono Cross. Neither was much of the Dream Team (notably Yuji Horii and Hironobu Sakaguchi were not involved either).

for people fully involved though development, it still had Kato and Mitsuda; some of the bests of the best right there

 

[Murlough]

Just about everyone who isn't a fitness junkie. No one requested her for the game. She was added just to be a WTF character. I'm serious.

Dude, I was lazy as dirt back when we bought our Wii and I played Wii Sports. It came with the Wii......which had Brawl. Everyone knew who Wii Fit Trainer was when she was announced.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

They're not gonna put in all fan favorites. That's just not Smash. Smash has never been about only including popular and relevant characters.

But this time around, we shouldn't expect too many newcomers.

Obscure ones would be the most likely to not show up because the popular and relevant ones are good for marketing.

 

[ChronoBound]

for people fully involved though development, it still had Kato and Mitsuda; some of the bests of the best right there

Cross felt like a completely different series from Trigger, and judging by the game's divided reception amongst fans, it probably should have been an original IP. What the plot did to the game's original cast was particularly loathsome.