Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[PeridotGX]

Here's an activity for you all.

State your reaction for each of these events.

Your reaction if Captain Toad is revealed.
Your reaction if Papaer Mario is revealed.
Your reaction if K.Rool is revealed.
Your reaction if Dixie Kong is revealed.
Your reaction if Skull Kid is revealed.
Your reaction if a champion is revealed.
Your reaction if Dark Samus is revealed.
Your reaction if Bandana Waddle Dee is revealed.
Your reaction if Decidueye is revealed.
Your reaction if Incineroar is revealed.
Your reaction if Mimikyu is revealed.
Your reaction if Celica is revealed.
Your reaction if Ashley is revealed.
Your reaction if Elma is Revealed.
Your reaction if Rex and Pyra is revealed.
Your reaction if Wonder Red is revealed.
Your reaction if Dillon is revealed.
Your reaction if Spring Man is revealed.
Your reaction if Simon is revealed.
Your reaction if Crash is revealed.

Captian : Cool
Papaer Mario: cool
K.Rool: Okay
Dixie: Cool
Skull Kid: Cool
Champions: Neat
DS: Okay
Bandana Dee: Yes
Deduceye: Yes
Incineroar: Meh
Mimikyu: Meh
Celica: Cool
Ashley: Meh
Elmo: Cool
Rex and Pyra: Cool
Wonder Red: Cool
Dillon: Cool
Spring Man: Cool
Simon: Cool
Crash: Cool.

 

[Will]

I would argue that Pikmin means more to Nintendo than Star Fox or F-Zero right now, easily. And Mother, but you already knew that.

That's like how a nickel compares to a penny.
And it's not that Mother means nothing to Nintendo, it's just that the series finished with Mother 3. Like, the plot's done. No more to be done there. It's like Punch-Out because Mac retired.

 

[Blackwolf666]

Here's an activity for you all.

State your reaction for each of these events.

Your reaction if Captain Toad is revealed.
Your reaction if Papaer Mario is revealed.
Your reaction if K.Rool is revealed.
Your reaction if Dixie Kong is revealed.
Your reaction if Skull Kid is revealed.
Your reaction if a champion is revealed.
Your reaction if Dark Samus is revealed.
Your reaction if Bandana Waddle Dee is revealed.
Your reaction if Decidueye is revealed.
Your reaction if Incineroar is revealed.
Your reaction if Mimikyu is revealed.
Your reaction if Celica is revealed.
Your reaction if Ashley is revealed.
Your reaction if Elma is Revealed.
Your reaction if Rex and Pyra is revealed.
Your reaction if Wonder Red is revealed.
Your reaction if Dillon is revealed.
Your reaction if Spring Man is revealed.
Your reaction if Simon is revealed.
Your reaction if Crash is revealed.

Captain toad: okay I guess
Paper Mario: never wanted him but alright
K. Rool: cool he finally got in.
Dixie Kong: Finally
Skull kid: meh, like the character but not too fond
Champion: who?
Dark Samus: oh it’s just another echo fighter
Bandana dee: he looks awesome can’t wait to try him
Decidueye: meh
Inceneroar: oh yeah!!! he better have a clothesline
Mimikyu: okay I guess
Cecilia: Another fire emblem lord and not even that creative...
Ashley: okay I could see myself using her.
Elma: meh
Rex and Pyra: yes!!!
Wonder red: well that surprised me
Dillon: who?
Spring man: well kinda figured
Simon: cool, now maybe smash boards will stop talking about how much they want him.
Crash: Another 3rd party maybe shovel knight is up next.

 

[Wyoming]

Captain Toad - Not regular Toad, no sale.
Paper Mario - If he's inspired by 64, TYOD, and SPM - yessssssss. If not, highly unamused.
K. Rool - Aaaaah, sweet sweet kroc is back to beat DK and his pathetic friends. And this time, there will be no mistake...
Dixie Kong - Pretty neat. Perfection if with K. Rool.
Skull Kid -Good villain for Zelda, do not want him in Smash.
champion - I guess.
Dark Samus - Depends on the moveset. Good potential and Metroid getting two newcomers would be quite something.
Bandana Waddle Dee - Never played a Kirby with him playable. Love the regular Dee, so why not?
Decidueye/Incineroar/Mimikyu - Pretty indifferent.
Celica - Kind of pushing that FE love, Sakurai.
Ashley - Indifferent.
Elma - Xenoblade's cool, despite only playing the original. Why not?
Rex and Pyra - As above, although their mechanic sounds more promising to me.
Wonder Red - Indifferent. Puzzled as well.
Dillon - As above.
Spring Man - Sakurai, how?? then indifference.
Simon - Castlevania's earned its place in gaming folklore. Bring on that music!
Crash - PlayStation All-Stars get WRECKED, boy.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

(Let's say 13 instead tho so i can have my )

I like the way you think

 

[Pacack]

That's like how a nickel compares to a penny.
And it's not that Mother means nothing to Nintendo, it's just that the series finished with Mother 3. Like, the plot's done. No more to be done there. It's like Punch-Out because Mac retired.

Fair. A nickel is still worth five times more than a penny, though.

Would you include before ?

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Legacy would definitely have to take priority over relevancy for a reboot, the only reason the latter has gotten so important is because we've gotten through all the essentials. I'd even be hestitant to include Inkling in a 12 character roster.

 

[ThyCheshireCat]

Really 12 characters is nowhere near enough for a reboot, I think it'd be cut to 20 at least. If we get 20 I'd expect this to be our roster.

 

[vaanrose]

All these reboot rosters cutting Luigi but leaving Yoshi.

Yoshi was huge in the 90s, him getting in to Smash 64 made perfect sense at the time. And while he's not exactly Jigglypuff levels of being forgotten by his own franchise, he's not the huge draw he once was. Luigi is still Luigi, and if anything, he's got more going for him now than he did then, given how much his character has diverged from Mario's in the intervening years.

 

[DarkFalcon]

I have a hard time believing any of the original 12 would ever be cut. Even if they reboot the series. There's some mystical force protecting them. Jigglypuff almost got axed before but almost doesn't count.

 

[Zinith]

All these reboot rosters cutting Luigi but leaving Yoshi.

Yoshi was huge in the 90s, him getting in to Smash 64 made perfect sense at the time. And while he's not exactly Jigglypuff levels of being forgotten by his own franchise, he's not the huge draw he once was. Luigi is still Luigi, and if anything, he's got more going for him now than he did then, given how much his character has diverged from Mario's in the intervening years.

Luigi still has that "too similar to Mario" feel to him. Don't get me wrong, Luigi's one of my favorite characters, but I think Yoshi takes priority over him

 

[Pacack]

Legacy would definitely have to take priority over relevancy for a reboot, the only reason the latter has gotten so important is because we've gotten through all the essentials. I'd even be hestitant to include Inkling in a 12 character roster.

I mean, Splatoon as a series has already sold 9.82 million, which is more than F-Zero's 5 million. I think it's safe to say that it's one of Nintendo's big boys now.

 

[Dracyoshi]

Personally, I value relevancy and legacy about equally. Lemme see...



Alright, here's what I came up with. A 12-character roster that represents as many big series with a large legacy and recent relevancy that I could squeeze in.
But I'd definitely want to expand it beyond that. 12 characters isn't anywhere close to enough for Smash nowadays. Here's how I'd expand it:



These series don't have as much relevancy as the first 12 nowadays, but have left a legacy throughout Nintendo or gaming history. Except Pit, Kid Icarus hasn't left much of a legacy yet. It's just a series that isn't big enough to be included in the initial 12.
After this I'd begin expanding each series roster to include iconic characters like instead of just having one character per series.

 

[Shyy_Guy595]

Captain Toad - Not regular Toad, no sale.
Paper Mario - If he's inspired by 64, TYOD, and SPM - yessssssss. If not, highly unamused.
K. Rool - Aaaaah, sweet sweet kroc is back to beat DK and his pathetic friends. And this time, there will be no mistake...
Dixie Kong - Pretty neat. Perfection if with K. Rool.
Skull Kid -Good villain for Zelda, do not want him in Smash.
champion - I guess.
Dark Samus - Depends on the moveset. Good potential and Metroid getting two newcomers would be quite something.
Bandana Waddle Dee - Never played a Kirby with him playable. Love the regular Dee, so why not?
Decidueye/Incineroar/Mimikyu - Pretty indifferent.
Celica - Kind of pushing that FE love, Sakurai.
Ashley - Indifferent.
Elma - Xenoblade's cool, despite only playing the original. Why not?
Rex and Pyra - As above, although their mechanic sounds more promising to me.
Wonder Red - Indifferent. Puzzled as well.
Dillon - As above.
Spring Man - Sakurai, how?? then indifference.
Simon - Castlevania's earned its place in gaming folklore. Bring on that music!
Crash - PlayStation All-Stars get WRECKED, boy.

You have great taste in pfps

 

[NintenZ]

Here's an activity for you all.

State your reaction for each of these events.

Your reaction if Captain Toad is revealed.
Your reaction if Papaer Mario is revealed.
Your reaction if K.Rool is revealed.
Your reaction if Dixie Kong is revealed.
Your reaction if Skull Kid is revealed.
Your reaction if a champion is revealed.
Your reaction if Dark Samus is revealed.
Your reaction if Bandana Waddle Dee is revealed.
Your reaction if Decidueye is revealed.
Your reaction if Incineroar is revealed.
Your reaction if Mimikyu is revealed.
Your reaction if Celica is revealed.
Your reaction if Ashley is revealed.
Your reaction if Elma is Revealed.
Your reaction if Rex and Pyra is revealed.
Your reaction if Wonder Red is revealed.
Your reaction if Dillon is revealed.
Your reaction if Spring Man is revealed.
Your reaction if Simon is revealed.
Your reaction if Crash is revealed.

Captain Toad: Ready for adventure!
Paper Mario: Not my cup of tea but okay.
K. Rool: That’s cool!
Dixie Kong: YES!!!
Skull Kid: Okay I guess?
Champions: Eh...
Dark Samus: Really happy for Metroid fans!
Bandana Waddle Dee: OHMYGODYESYES!!!!
Decidueye: Okay.
Incineroar: That’s cool.
Mimikyu: Okay.
Celica: Oh yeah!
Ashley: YES YES YES FINALLY!!!
Elma: Pretty cool, would like Fiora but pretty good.
Rex and Pyra: *Eats Shoe*
Wonder Red: Oh... Okay...
Dillon: Meh...
Spring Man: ^Refer to Rex and Pyra
Simon: The Captain N trio is reunited!
Crash: Pretty cool we have all these mascots in the game all United.

 

[Cosmic77]

I mean, Splatoon as a series has already sold 9.82 million, which is more than F-Zero's 5 million. I think it's safe to say that it's one of Nintendo's big boys now.

Heck, in Japan alone, Splatoon 2 has sold close to 2.25 million. It's been decades since a home console game was able to sell that much in Japan.

Point is, Splatoon is inching it's way to becoming one of Nintendo's iconic flagship franchises.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

People are reacting surprisingly negatively to Wonder Red.

Do people not like him?

 

[Will]

Fair. A nickel is still worth five times more than a penny, though.

Would you include before ?

I'd include Falcon for the sake of Falcon, he's one of the series' biggest stars of the show.

 

[Zinith]

People are reacting surprisingly negatively to Wonder Red.

Do people not like him?

I responded "Cool!" like most of the cast. I have nothing against him...

 

[Shyy_Guy595]

I mean, Splatoon as a series has already sold 9.82 million, which is more than F-Zero's 5 million. I think it's safe to say that it's one of Nintendo's big boys now.

Do you believe it'll last? Like, where will they go to expand upon the series? Could very well get the Pikmin treatment, and now, Animal Crossing treatment in that new titles may take long periods of time or just have nothing at all like KI.

 

[DarkFalcon]

All these reboot rosters cutting Luigi but leaving Yoshi.

Yoshi was huge in the 90s, him getting in to Smash 64 made perfect sense at the time. And while he's not exactly Jigglypuff levels of being forgotten by his own franchise, he's not the huge draw he once was. Luigi is still Luigi, and if anything, he's got more going for him now than he did then, given how much his character has diverged from Mario's in the intervening years.

Agreed. I don't think there exists a universe where a majority of people would pick Yoshi over Luigi. I liked Yoshi's stuff back in the earlier years but now meh. Luigi has only differentiated himself more and more.

 

[NintenZ]

What I say probably will not reflect my final thoughts on promotional characters like Ashley, Dee, and Isabelle, but I thought this bit on SPD would be interesting to mention.

I have to say that I don’t consider Ashley, Dee, or Isabelle promotional characters, but rather fan favorite characters.

 

[Wyoming]

You have great taste in pfps

I beg your pardon?

 

[Zinith]

God, people disrespecting Yoshi today...

 

[NintenZ]

People are reacting surprisingly negatively to Wonder Red.

Do people not like him?

Oh no, mine wasn’t actually negative, it was more surprised about his inclusion due to the sales of his game on Wii U. My reaction would be positive but surprised as well.

 

[DarkFalcon]

God, people disrespecting Yoshi today...

I know you love him but comparing him to other characters he has a rough hill to climb to convince others why he'd deserve to stay over someone like Luigi.

 

[Wyoming]

Cutting Captain Falcon from Smash would basically cause the memes to explode. His bravado and fists first approach basically make him the unofficial Smash mascot.

 

[Shyy_Guy595]

I beg your pardon?

Profile Pictures; I enjoy A Fox in Space, unless you just picked a random pic online lol

 

[SuperSmashStephen]

Here's an activity for you all.

State your reaction for each of these events.

Your reaction if Captain Toad is revealed.
Your reaction if Papaer Mario is revealed.
Your reaction if K.Rool is revealed.
Your reaction if Dixie Kong is revealed.
Your reaction if Skull Kid is revealed.
Your reaction if a champion is revealed.
Your reaction if Dark Samus is revealed.
Your reaction if Bandana Waddle Dee is revealed.
Your reaction if Decidueye is revealed.
Your reaction if Incineroar is revealed.
Your reaction if Mimikyu is revealed.
Your reaction if Celica is revealed.
Your reaction if Ashley is revealed.
Your reaction if Elma is Revealed.
Your reaction if Rex and Pyra is revealed.
Your reaction if Wonder Red is revealed.
Your reaction if Dillon is revealed.
Your reaction if Spring Man is revealed.
Your reaction if Simon is revealed.
Your reaction if Crash is revealed.

Captain Toad: Okay. I’m sure his fans are happy.
Paper Mario: Awesome!
K. Rool: That’s cool. I’m sure the internet is breaking.
Dixie Kong: Awesome!
Skull Kid: Okay, I guess. Not too fond.
Mipha: Cool!
Daruk: Cool!
Revali: Cool!
Urbosa: MY GIRL!
Dark Samus. That’s cool, I guess.
Bandana Waddle Dee: The gang’s all here!
Decidueye: Meh, Okay.
Mimikyu: A single tear trolls down my cheek as I whisper “My baby.”
Celica: Cool.
Ashley: That’s Cool. I’m sure her fans are happy.
Elma: Meh, Okay.
Rex & Pyra: Cool!
Wonder Red: Okay, neat.
Dillon: Meh.
Spring Man: Okay, but I’d prefer Ribbon Girl or Min Min.
Simon: Meh, Okay.
Crash: Abomination, be gone from Smash!

Extras:
Impa: Cool!
Isabelle: “It’s the perfect day! Nothing’s standing in my wayyy!”
Sora: I’d just started crying. My boy!

 

[vaanrose]

Luigi still has that "too similar to Mario" feel to him. Don't get me wrong, Luigi's one of my favorite characters, but I think Yoshi takes priority over him

A rebooted game comes with rebooted movesets. The only thing about Luigi that needs to be similar to Mario is his appearance and even then.

 

[KMDP]

For a Reboot Smash Roster, this is probably what I'd go for:

Essential Characters:
Legacy Characters:
New IP Character:
Third Party:
Clones:

 

[Zinith]

I know you love him but comparing him to other characters he has a rough hill to climb to convince others why he'd deserve to stay over someone like Luigi.

Luigi may be developing an identity away from Mario, but he's still too similar to Mario to be included in Smash over a character from the same series who's COMPLETELY different from Mario

 

[Pacack]

If I'm being real about what Nintendo would want, it'd be more like this:


Talking sales, basically.

I'd include Falcon for the sake of Falcon, he's one of the series' biggest stars of the show.

But, really, if he didn't have Smash he'd be nothing at this point. Harsh, but still.

 

[Dracyoshi]

Luigi may be more relevant than Yoshi, but I'm choosing Yoshi instead for two reasons:
1. Luigi's design is similar to Mario's, and since we're trimming the roster down to 12 we need to have the least amount of similarities as possible.
2. Yoshi is under the umbrella of his own series, while Luigi is still under the Mario umbrella. I'm making absolutely sure to only have one character per series since we've got to cut more than three-quarters of the roster. As much series representation as possible.

Also, I think that Bowser is more iconic and well known than Luigi. If I went with a second Mario rep then I'd go with Bowser instead.

 

[DarkFalcon]

Luigi may be developing an identity away from Mario, but he's still too similar to Mario to be included in Smash over a character from the same series who's COMPLETELY different from Mario

100% disagree. It's not just about playstyle. A lot of people would be upset if Luigi got cut in favor of Yoshi in a hypothetical reboot. I'm sure there'd be Yoshi fans who'd be upset if he were gone, but I'd say less so than vice versa.

 

[Zinith]

100% disagree. It's not just about playstyle. A lot of people would be upset if Luigi got cut in favor of Yoshi in a hypothetical reboot. I'm sure there'd be Yoshi fans who'd be upset if he were gone, but I'd say less so than vice versa.

Well we'll agree to disagree, cause I think Luigi fans will be more forgiving considering his role in the series

 

[Wyoming]

Profile Pictures; I enjoy A Fox in Space, unless you just picked a random pic online lol

Still waiting for that next episode. Forever, and ever....

If the series rebooted under Sakurai's control I doubt we'd lose too much. I think the clones and semi-clones would go alongside perhaps some "extra" fat per say. i.e:

First would be the third parties. They are outsiders and thus need outsiders to make the big call for them. I'd say most would stay, but some might go depending on working relationships.

Clones/semi-clones:

Those would be the first to get removed in a reboot. I think Ganondorf would most likely be spared and made unique, however.

Then the extra fat, aka irrelevant characters in relevant series that could be low priority in a reboot version of a game or due to time constraints: (?)

Sakurai enjoys retros and Mother too much to get rid of them entirely, and I think Falcon would stay due to his big presence in Smash. Removing everyone old and only making it about new stuff would lead it to getting very salty response towards the roster ala PS All Stars.

 

[Pacack]

Do you believe it'll last?

Yes.

Shooter games are a huge market, and Nintendo knows that. Plus, Splatoon is huge in Japan, which does matter when it comes to Nintendo.

 

[vaanrose]

Yoshi "repping" his own series and Luigi not is really just due to a technicality. Yoshi got his spinoff before Smash 64, Luigi didn't get his spinoff until after Smash 64. They're both just Mario characters who happen to star in a couple of their own games on the side.

 

[DarkFalcon]

Luigi may be more relevant than Yoshi, but I'm choosing Yoshi instead for two reasons:
1. Luigi's design is similar to Mario's, and since we're trimming the roster down to 12 we need to have the least amount of similarities as possible.
2. Yoshi is under the umbrella of his own series, while Luigi is still under the Mario umbrella. I'm making absolutely sure to only have one character per series since we've got to cut more than three-quarters of the roster. As much series representation as possible.

Also, I think that Bowser is more iconic and well known than Luigi. If I went with a second Mario rep then I'd go with Bowser instead.

You can fix this by putting Luigi under Luigi's Mansion. Because in a supposed reboot he'd totally get moves from there.