Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Pippin (Peregrin Took)]

Quick question: is the CEO demo build the same as E3’s or are we getting anything new?

 

[Swamp Sensei]

The Mario series and subseries are like comic book universes.

Mario, Yoshi, Donkey Kong and Wario all exist in the same franchise and interact all the time. They each have their own adventures and stories though.

Likewise, Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman and The Flash all exist in the same franchise and interact all the time. They each have their own adventures and stories too.

They're all connected, yet distinct.

For example, I wouldn't call Ashley or K.Rool, a Mario character just like I wouldn't call the Joker or Ares, a Superman villain. Sure they exist in the same universe but they are connected to different stories.

All connected, yet all distinct.

 

[ThyCheshireCat]

Lemme do a hypothetical reboot roster with Melee-levels of characters (26) just for the hell of it.

​

Five Pokemon in a reboot of just 26 characters is just unfair on Earthbound, Retros and/or heck i'd even argue Metroid and Star Fox, Pokemon is big but when one in every 5.2 characters in the roster is from the series (and when it technically has more than Mario) it just feels weighted towards Pokemon fans and unbalanced, there is a lot of fans but like this is kinda rediculous. Other than that it's great!

 

[DarkFalcon]

I was separating them by fours.

It's clear to see that from the promotional material, Smash considers Mario, Link, Pikachu, and Kirby as the Big Four, and I sincerely doubt that they would go before Samus and DK tbh

I think Mario and Link are the unofficial mascots of Smash. Well...Actually you could make more of a case for Mario and Pikachu. Since they've always been at the forefront of every single Smash cover since 64, with Link joining in in Melee.

 

[Sharkarat]

Lemme do a hypothetical reboot roster with Melee-levels of characters (26) just for the hell of it.

​

I would trade one pokemon for Ganondorf.

 

[Deleted member]

Lemme do a hypothetical reboot roster with Melee-levels of characters (26) just for the hell of it.

​

Why so many Pokemon Maybe just Pikachu and mewtwo and the other 3 can be Ness Ganon and Wii fit trainer

 

[Shyy_Guy595]

I think Mario and Link are the unofficial mascots of Smash. Well...Actually you could make more of a case for Mario and Pikachu. Since they've always been at the forefront of every single Smash cover since 64, with Link joining in in Melee.

If you go by amount of representation, then that also works well for Mario and Pikachu.

Not to mention sales based on franchise and being the iconic faces of both.

 

[Dracyoshi]

Given Sakurai's famitsu column, he was talking about how he was faced with the decision of creating a completely new game, but with only a third of the roster, or build off of pre-existing assets into Ultimate. I'd say that if we end up getting a reboot, it'd probably be around 22 characters, rather than 12.

So, if we're going by 22

I wouldn't give the DK and Star Fox franchises their second rep. I don't think either series has earned a second rep in a roster this small, especially Star Fox. It's been on a sales decline since 64.
Especially when Yoshi and Olimar are both more relevant than Falco and Diddy.

btw Olimar has definitely earned a spot. The Pikmin series has outsold both the Mother and F-Zero franchises, and unlike them it has a confirmed game in the works. It's not Nintendo's biggest franchise, but it can't be ignored.

 

[Pacack]

Five Pokemon in a reboot of just 26 characters is just unfair on Earthbound, Retros and/or heck i'd even argue Metroid and Star Fox, Pokemon is big but when one in every 5.2 characters in the roster is from the series (and when it technically has more than Mario) it just feels weighted towards Pokemon fans and unbalanced, there is a lot of fans but like this is kinda rediculous. Other than that it's great!

I would agree if Pokemon wasn't the most successful media franchise of all time. I could see it just being Pikachu, Charizard, Mewtwo, and Lucario, though.

I would trade one pokemon for Ganondorf.

Fair, but consider:

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Especially when Yoshi and Olimar are both more relevant than Falco and Diddy.

Dude.
Diddy just had major title in Tropical Freeze.

And he shows up ALL the time.

How is he less relevant than Olimar, who hasn't appeared since 2013?

 

[DarkFalcon]

If you go by amount of representation, then that also works well for Mario and Pikachu.

Not to mention sales based on franchise and being the iconic faces of both.

Man, if the roster was only based on sales freakin Samus would be cut. I can't have that.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Here's a topic, suppose each company involved got an assist trophy, not linked to their playble games. Who would it be?

Sega- Aiai: Monkey Balls around the place, dealing no damage but a lot of knockback
Namco- Bravoman: Uses his stretchy arms to attack (bonus points if Rob Paulsen comes back to voice him)
Capcom- Morrigan: Splits in two and missile bombards the stage
Square Enix- Slime: Acts as a big ol' damage sponge in the middle of the field.

 

[Pacack]

Dude.
Diddy just had major title in Tropical Freeze.

And he shows up ALL the time.

How is he less relevant than Olimar, who hasn't appeared since 2013?

Counterpoint: Yoshi and Diddy > Olimar and Falco

 

[Opossum]

I'll just give my input on the 24 one since 12 is a bit dry.



(Isabelle)


I opted for no third parties given the roster size, though Sonic and Pac-Man were considered.

Notable changes:
Mario uses his hammer in his Smash Attacks.
Luigi uses the Poltergust more.
Yoshi is rebranded as a Mario character.
Samus gets more projectiles in her normals.
Lucina is completely decloned and swaps between Falchion and Geirskögul.
Isabelle is added due to her sheer prominence.
Yes R.O.B. is in. Deal with it.

Characters who just barely missed the cut were Shulk, Miis, Sonic, Pac-Man, Ridley, Ike, Wario, and Diddy.

 

[DarkFalcon]

I'll just give my input on the 24 one since 12 is a bit dry.



(Isabelle)


I opted for no third parties given the roster size, though Sonic and Pac-Man were considered.

Notable changes:
Mario uses his hammer in his Smash Attacks.
Luigi uses the Poltergust more.
Yoshi is rebranded as a Mario character.
Samus gets more projectiles in her normals.
Lucina is completely decloned and swaps between Falchion and Geirskögul.
Isabelle is added due to her sheer prominence.
Yes R.O.B. is in. Deal with it.

Characters who just barely missed the cut were Shulk, Miis, Sonic, Pac-Man, Ridley, Ike, Wario, and Diddy.

Fought so hard for Ridley only for him to be cut in a reboot. Feelsbadman.

 

[ThyCheshireCat]

I would agree if Pokemon wasn't the most successful media franchise of all time. I could see it just being Pikachu, Charizard, Mewtwo, and Lucario, though.

I really don't see Greninja in a Melee sized reboot, I can easily see the other four which you have stated, but i'd personally put either, , orin 's place.

 

[Will]

Characters who just barely missed the cut were Ridley.

Give him a break, he JUST got in.

 

[Dracyoshi]

Dude.
Diddy just had major title in Tropical Freeze.

And he shows up ALL the time.

How is he less relevant than Olimar, who hasn't appeared since 2013?

Fair enough. But while Olimar as a character isn't as big, Pikmin as a series is and deserves a rep before DK gets a second. Also, Olimar was the face of two games in his series and a major character in the third.

Counterpoint: Yoshi and Diddy > Olimar and Falco

I can agree with that

 

[vaanrose]

12 Character Reboot:



In a reboot situation, Sheik's and Falcon's popularity within the Smash franchise itself will keep them around.

12 Character First Entry in a hypothetical Smash-less timeline:



I'd've put Pit in that second one, except in a hypothetical Smash-less timeline, I don't think Uprising would've happened, either, lol.

I generally doubt Marth would make the cut in a reboot over any of the more recent, modern Fire Emblem characters if not for his presence in Smash boosting his popularity. "Being first" wasn't enough for Ninten, it wouldn't be enough for Marth now that so many more characters in his own franchise are more popular than he is. So he'd 100% be passed over in favor of someone more recent in a Smash-less timeline.

 

[Deleted member]

I will do the 24 to

 

[AlphaSSB]

I wouldn't give the DK and Star Fox franchises their second rep. I don't think either series has earned a second rep in a roster this small, especially Star Fox. It's been on a sales decline since 64.
Especially when Yoshi and Olimar are both more relevant than Falco and Diddy.

btw Olimar has definitely earned a spot. The Pikmin series has outsold both the Mother and F-Zero franchises, and unlike them it has a confirmed game in the works. It's not Nintendo's biggest franchise, but it can't be ignored.

Diddy Kong and Falco are both relevant characters from franchises with great Nintendo history.

Olimar was a candidate, but ended up going with Villager. Quite frankly, I'd give Wii Fit Trainer a spot before Olimar, seeing as to how successful the Wii Fit series was.

Yoshi not being there was a bit of an oversight, admittedly. In which case, I'd probably replace Falco or King Dedede with him.

 

[Deleted member]

I will do the 24 to

 

[Shyy_Guy595]

Honestly, as much as it may seem like pandering, I can see Pokemon going for the iconic rather than the recent and popular Lucario and Greninja.

Also, Wii Fit Trainer is a very likely rep considering their history. They're being glossed over a lot; Miis too

 

[KMDP]

Here's a topic, suppose each company involved got an assist trophy, not linked to their playble games. Who would it be?

Sega- Aiai: Monkey Balls around the place, dealing no damage but a lot of knockback
Namco- Bravoman: Uses his stretchy arms to attack (bonus points if Rob Paulsen comes back to voice him)
Capcom- Morrigan: Splits in two and missile bombards the stage
Square Enix- Slime: Acts as a big ol' damage sponge in the middle of the field.

Aiai? Not NiGHTS? For shame, Guybrush, for shame.

 

[Sharkarat]

Fair, but consider:
View attachment 150902

Ganon/Ganondorf are both fine, but Dorf stands more out from Bowser. more that I think he should have higher priority than greninja.

How is he less relevant than Olimar, who hasn't appeared since 2013?

Hey! PIKMIN

 

[Zinith]

Arguing for Yoshi respect is gonna kill me one of these days. Anyways, I shouldn't be arguing the point about Yoshi getting hypothetically cut because a reboot is never gonna happen. Smash isn't Killer Instinct (and even then that game got all it's veteran fighters, albeit peace meal)

 

[UltimateWario]

Here's an idea for a roster for a spiritual successor to Smash rather than "Smash Zero". We'll call it...Nintendo Clash or something.

Main Roster (Asterisk means unlockable):
**
**
**
Costume Clones (characters with the same exact moveset but animation, voice, and effect differences, contained within the same slot):
Octoling
DLC 1 (Super Smash Heroes):

DLC 2 (Nemesis Invasion):
King K. Rool, Classic Ganon

Notes:

• Mario uses his hammer and other power-ups to fight.
• Link is Classic Link from Between Worlds. Moveset consists of a few sword swipes but he primarily fights with iconic items from older Zeldas (Magic Rod, Boomerang, Bow and Arrow, Bombs, Pegasus Boots, etc.)
• Samus fights with devastating effectiveness at range but must keep her opponents off of her with Screw Attack and Melee Counter, while using her Morph Ball to keep away.
• Olimar "fights" by being attacked by various creatures from Pikmin.
• Wario is a grappler who uses his throws and piledriver from Wario World.
• Kirby is a stance character whose moveset gains different effects by changing Copy Abilities.
• Animal Crossing is represented through stages and Tom Nook hosts the in-game shop where you buy costumes and characters.

 

[Shyy_Guy595]

Even though I like my boy Luigi, I don't think he should be the reason a whole franchise might not make it into the game. He only made the OG because he barely took time. Bowser was probably the more prioritized but time was short, so they went with the easiest option for another Mario character

 

[Pakky]

I'm starting to catch this Waluigi bug, though I've always liked him, I hope he gets his own game like how got a tiny reboot.

Also why does he like ? Honestly, that's so interesting to me.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Two leaks today.

Spoiler: Leak

http://boards.4chan.org/v/thread/422601087

I'm a contract tester so I don't have the fancy badge color like the actual employees do. Due to the last incident from 2014, phones aren't allowed anymore in the testing area so there's that. I have no clue about trailers and dates, that's probably something only people super involved in the project (not testers) know.​

​

66 is Bandana Waddle Dee, 67 is Dixie Kong, 68 is King K. Rool, 69 is Elma, 70 is Mimikyu, 71 is Tibby, and 72 is Ayumi(from that Japanese detective game). 45ε is Isabelle.​

​

Bandana Waddle Dee plays like he does in the Kirby games, it's nothing too special. His final smash is a cutscene where a gigantic ball of Waddle Dees slam into the fighters.​

​

Dixie Kong plays like Diddy Kong, but more differences so she's not an echo fighter. She has a gun filled with gumballs that fires rapidly but can still explode and some of her moves and grab use her hair, but everything else is not too different than Diddy. They both have the same new final smash too, where they call Rambi and ram into everyone in front of them.​

The King is probably one of the heaviest characters in the game. His jumps are awful but his recovery is decent, it's like a poorly-made mechanical jetpack that explodes after a certain time in the air and the blades damage anyone who comes in contact. Standard special is his gigantic musket that looks hilarious when Kirby is using it. Down special is him slamming into the ground and having a giant cannonball fall on either side of him. Side special is tossing his crown like a boomerang. His moves are standard fare like the final boss fights from the games, but his Final smash has his him calling all of his other personas to wail on the other fighters in a really comedic manner. Those other costumes are also in the game to wear.​

Elma uses a variety of futuristic weapons. I never played Xenoblade X but a flashing arrow box appears by her portrait and if you follow up with the special the arrow alludes to, it does more damage. Her final smash calls a bunch of soldiers and giant mechs and they charge the other fighters.

Mimikyu takes less damage when its head is standing upright but takes regular damage when its head is wilted down, kind of like its ability from the game. You can put the head upright again by connecting its down special with another fighter. Special attacks are moves from the game like shadow claw as its standard and play rough as its side. Its final smash is unsurprisingly a Z-Move, but not the one exclusive to it.

I downloaded Rhythm Heaven after I played as Tibby just to get an idea of what is going on. His moveset alludes to so many of the games from that series that it was hard understanding the references. Standard special is based on the clappy trio game, up special is night walk, side special is Airboarder, and down special is tap trial. All of them do more damage if you follow the rhythm cues to them beofrehand but they may
Ayumi fights really differently. A lot of her basic moves and airs use a notepad and a pen as well as a briefcase so it feel like she's constantly jotting down observations or something. In her standard special she takes pictures with a camera. it does no damage but it can stun other fighters at the right distance. Her up special is like a startled jump? A noise like a telephone ringing or something crashing to the ground happens and she jumps up in fright, it's really weird but does a decent amount of damage. Side special summons a ghostly girl figure behind her and it charges forward and attacks but because it's behind you if you want to attack to the left you use the right special and vice versa. Her final smash summons a mirror with a ghostly figure in it that gets bigger and bigger until it breaks through and the shards shatter everywhere.

Isabelle plays like Villager with a few differences. Her final smash is a different public works project like a police station or a fancy statue. Up air is a clipboard instead of turnips, and her pocket ability can be converted into bells that make her other specials more powerful if you hold down the button with an item. Her balloon fight move damages others when it pops to utilize this.

Daisy's down special is flowers instead of turnips that get converted into items. The most common one is a fire flower that gives you a fireball, but there's also ice, gold, boomerang and the balls from Super Mario Land which are really powerful and bounce off walls for a bit. She can pull out other random items like Peach can like bob-ombs and blue shells. Their new final smash is from Super Mario Run I think? a bunch of Toads come to cheer them on as they vault over blocks and ram into the fighters.

Spoiler: Leak 2

http://boards.4chan.org/v/thread/422611629#p422612242
Sorry if this has weird formatting, I'm not at all used to the format of this site, but judging from the roster leak for Smash 4, this seems to be the safest place to leak.

And no, I'm not affiliated with the Smash 4 leaker, but I have heard a lot about him through the grapevine. Not a lot of good stuff, I'll assure you.

Anyway, i have some information through the grapevine that I can't help but be excited to show you guys.

Ok, so first things first: Nintendo, due to the legal and programming ****ery they had to go through to include every single character in ultimate, won't have very many newcomers. Instead, as seen so far by ridley, they are trying to include the craziest newcomers within the realm of possibility to drum up support for the game.
I only know of two of them. I don't know about anything beyond these.

First off, Simon Belmont. He is, in fact, playable, just as Vergeben said.
Throughout my time seeing Simon being played, I've gleaned these details. I haven't been paying close enough attention to tell you guys about the tilts and hitboxes, sorry.

His jab is to hit someone with his whip. Shocker. As detailed in the Smash Section of the E3 presentation, pressing the jab and holding results in rapid-fire strikes. Thus, Simon swipes with his whip multiple times when you utilize this technique.

His neutral special (Pretty Sure, could be side)
Simon throws a dagger with knockback. Like Sheik's needles, if its charged, he'll throw 3 daggers with significantly more knockback.

Side Special (Still not Sure, It could be his neutral) Simon slams his whip down in an arc above his head, causing knockback.

Up Special: Simon shoots his whip upwards, which can grasp on to a ledge. If it is used on solid ground and hits an an enemy in the air.
Simon slams them down to the ground in a very similar manner to his Neutral/Side (Again, Still not 100% Certain which one it is)

Down Special: Simon throws down a vial of holy water, which creates blue flames at his feet that burn the enemy in a similar manner to Ness' PK Fire.

Final Smash: Begins with a Whip Strike with a wider attack range. If it hits, Simon's whip becomes a flaming whip and he does several rapid-fire strikes. Then, he throws a large vial of holy water, which results in a large explosion of blue flames and significant knockback.

(Side Note: I've been writing this post in docs for a while now and was taking notes in my head while I viewed gameplay of simon, thats why this is carefully written.)

I don't actually know when simon will be revealed, but I know when this next character will be revealed, and I've seen his character trailer. The trailer will be shown on July 19.
The trailer will consist of Ganondorf beating up Mario, Link, and Samus in an animated video. The three will get up, clearly about to pass out, and Ganon will transform into Demon King Ganon. Then, Mario, Link, and Samus will all be knocked down by blue lasers. Ganon looks back, still as demon king Ganon, and then is blasted i the head by this blue laser. Immediately, yellow text will come up over Ganon's head, saying 'HEADSHOT" and "+1000 damage". The camera scrolls to a Gauss Cannon dropping to the floor, while the sound of vibrating energy reverberates. The camera pans up to a very familiar marine holding a plasma rifle.

DOOM SLAYER Locks and Loads!
(Note: The Headshot kill signs do not appear above Mario, Link, and Samus because Demon King Ganon is a Demon, get it?)

Then, the trailer shows the Doom Slayer's moveset.
His grabs seem to be references to his Glory Kills in Doom 2016. In fact, his entire moveset is based off of Doom 2016.

His Neutral Special is Firing his Plasma Rifle. Without Charging, it only fires three medium-speed blue orbs. When you charge it fully, the Slayer pulls out the Gauss Cannon, which is a powerful blast with significant knockback.

Side-Smash: The Slayer does an upward slash with his chainsaw, which knocks the opponent into the air.

Down-Smash: The Slayer tosses a frag grenade towards his feet, which explodes after 2 seconds. There's no limit to how many he can throw.

Up-Smash: A lot like Zelda's Up-Smash, the doom slayer spawns a hologram of himself a good bit above him, which the creator immediately assumes control over. (Just so you guys understand, this is a reference to the hologram from Doom 2016. It simply transports Doom Slayer upwards, and the former doom slayer vanishes in blue light. You immediately assume control of the hologram. No playstyle changes whatsoever.)

Final Smash: The Slayer pulls out the BFG 9000 and fires a green blast, which explodes into a huge burst of green energy with a **** ton of knockback. Almost a guaranteed kill if you are hit with it at point blank.
Screencap this. Remember, July 19. Save the date.

 

[Zinith]

Two leaks today. One is developing, so I'll post it when it's archived.

Spoiler: Leak

http://boards.4chan.org/v/thread/422601087

I'm a contract tester so I don't have the fancy badge color like the actual employees do. Due to the last incident from 2014, phones aren't allowed anymore in the testing area so there's that. I have no clue about trailers and dates, that's probably something only people super involved in the project (not testers) know.​

​

66 is Bandana Waddle Dee, 67 is Dixie Kong, 68 is King K. Rool, 69 is Elma, 70 is Mimikyu, 71 is Tibby, and 72 is Ayumi(from that Japanese detective game). 45ε is Isabelle.​

​

Bandana Waddle Dee plays like he does in the Kirby games, it's nothing too special. His final smash is a cutscene where a gigantic ball of Waddle Dees slam into the fighters.​

​

Dixie Kong plays like Diddy Kong, but more differences so she's not an echo fighter. She has a gun filled with gumballs that fires rapidly but can still explode and some of her moves and grab use her hair, but everything else is not too different than Diddy. They both have the same new final smash too, where they call Rambi and ram into everyone in front of them.​

The King is probably one of the heaviest characters in the game. His jumps are awful but his recovery is decent, it's like a poorly-made mechanical jetpack that explodes after a certain time in the air and the blades damage anyone who comes in contact. Standard special is his gigantic musket that looks hilarious when Kirby is using it. Down special is him slamming into the ground and having a giant cannonball fall on either side of him. Side special is tossing his crown like a boomerang. His moves are standard fare like the final boss fights from the games, but his Final smash has his him calling all of his other personas to wail on the other fighters in a really comedic manner. Those other costumes are also in the game to wear.​

Elma uses a variety of futuristic weapons. I never played Xenoblade X but a flashing arrow box appears by her portrait and if you follow up with the special the arrow alludes to, it does more damage. Her final smash calls a bunch of soldiers and giant mechs and they charge the other fighters.

Mimikyu takes less damage when its head is standing upright but takes regular damage when its head is wilted down, kind of like its ability from the game. You can put the head upright again by connecting its down special with another fighter. Special attacks are moves from the game like shadow claw as its standard and play rough as its side. Its final smash is unsurprisingly a Z-Move, but not the one exclusive to it.

I downloaded Rhythm Heaven after I played as Tibby just to get an idea of what is going on. His moveset alludes to so many of the games from that series that it was hard understanding the references. Standard special is based on the clappy trio game, up special is night walk, side special is Airboarder, and down special is tap trial. All of them do more damage if you follow the rhythm cues to them beofrehand but they may
Ayumi fights really differently. A lot of her basic moves and airs use a notepad and a pen as well as a briefcase so it feel like she's constantly jotting down observations or something. In her standard special she takes pictures with a camera. it does no damage but it can stun other fighters at the right distance. Her up special is like a startled jump? A noise like a telephone ringing or something crashing to the ground happens and she jumps up in fright, it's really weird but does a decent amount of damage. Side special summons a ghostly girl figure behind her and it charges forward and attacks but because it's behind you if you want to attack to the left you use the right special and vice versa. Her final smash summons a mirror with a ghostly figure in it that gets bigger and bigger until it breaks through and the shards shatter everywhere.

Isabelle plays like Villager with a few differences. Her final smash is a different public works project like a police station or a fancy statue. Up air is a clipboard instead of turnips, and her pocket ability can be converted into bells that make her other specials more powerful if you hold down the button with an item. Her balloon fight move damages others when it pops to utilize this.

Daisy's down special is flowers instead of turnips that get converted into items. The most common one is a fire flower that gives you a fireball, but there's also ice, gold, boomerang and the balls from Super Mario Land which are really powerful and bounce off walls for a bit. She can pull out other random items like Peach can like bob-ombs and blue shells. Their new final smash is from Super Mario Run I think? a bunch of Toads come to cheer them on as they vault over blocks and ram into the fighters.

Also here's a link to the developing leak if you want to ask anything of our "leaker"

"Bandana Waddle Dee plays like he does in the Kirby games, it's nothing too special."

Nice attention to detail there 4Chan leak...

 

[NintenZ]

If we don’t get Lyn or Celica, I will gladly take Chrom as an Echo. He’s very popular, and the only main character from Awakening not to be playable in Smash so I could see him and would welcome him to the roster with open arms.

 

[Shyy_Guy595]

Two leaks today. One is developing, so I'll post it when it's archived.

Spoiler: Leak

http://boards.4chan.org/v/thread/422601087

I'm a contract tester so I don't have the fancy badge color like the actual employees do. Due to the last incident from 2014, phones aren't allowed anymore in the testing area so there's that. I have no clue about trailers and dates, that's probably something only people super involved in the project (not testers) know.​

​

66 is Bandana Waddle Dee, 67 is Dixie Kong, 68 is King K. Rool, 69 is Elma, 70 is Mimikyu, 71 is Tibby, and 72 is Ayumi(from that Japanese detective game). 45ε is Isabelle.​

​

Bandana Waddle Dee plays like he does in the Kirby games, it's nothing too special. His final smash is a cutscene where a gigantic ball of Waddle Dees slam into the fighters.​

​

Dixie Kong plays like Diddy Kong, but more differences so she's not an echo fighter. She has a gun filled with gumballs that fires rapidly but can still explode and some of her moves and grab use her hair, but everything else is not too different than Diddy. They both have the same new final smash too, where they call Rambi and ram into everyone in front of them.​

The King is probably one of the heaviest characters in the game. His jumps are awful but his recovery is decent, it's like a poorly-made mechanical jetpack that explodes after a certain time in the air and the blades damage anyone who comes in contact. Standard special is his gigantic musket that looks hilarious when Kirby is using it. Down special is him slamming into the ground and having a giant cannonball fall on either side of him. Side special is tossing his crown like a boomerang. His moves are standard fare like the final boss fights from the games, but his Final smash has his him calling all of his other personas to wail on the other fighters in a really comedic manner. Those other costumes are also in the game to wear.​

Elma uses a variety of futuristic weapons. I never played Xenoblade X but a flashing arrow box appears by her portrait and if you follow up with the special the arrow alludes to, it does more damage. Her final smash calls a bunch of soldiers and giant mechs and they charge the other fighters.

Mimikyu takes less damage when its head is standing upright but takes regular damage when its head is wilted down, kind of like its ability from the game. You can put the head upright again by connecting its down special with another fighter. Special attacks are moves from the game like shadow claw as its standard and play rough as its side. Its final smash is unsurprisingly a Z-Move, but not the one exclusive to it.

I downloaded Rhythm Heaven after I played as Tibby just to get an idea of what is going on. His moveset alludes to so many of the games from that series that it was hard understanding the references. Standard special is based on the clappy trio game, up special is night walk, side special is Airboarder, and down special is tap trial. All of them do more damage if you follow the rhythm cues to them beofrehand but they may
Ayumi fights really differently. A lot of her basic moves and airs use a notepad and a pen as well as a briefcase so it feel like she's constantly jotting down observations or something. In her standard special she takes pictures with a camera. it does no damage but it can stun other fighters at the right distance. Her up special is like a startled jump? A noise like a telephone ringing or something crashing to the ground happens and she jumps up in fright, it's really weird but does a decent amount of damage. Side special summons a ghostly girl figure behind her and it charges forward and attacks but because it's behind you if you want to attack to the left you use the right special and vice versa. Her final smash summons a mirror with a ghostly figure in it that gets bigger and bigger until it breaks through and the shards shatter everywhere.

Isabelle plays like Villager with a few differences. Her final smash is a different public works project like a police station or a fancy statue. Up air is a clipboard instead of turnips, and her pocket ability can be converted into bells that make her other specials more powerful if you hold down the button with an item. Her balloon fight move damages others when it pops to utilize this.

Daisy's down special is flowers instead of turnips that get converted into items. The most common one is a fire flower that gives you a fireball, but there's also ice, gold, boomerang and the balls from Super Mario Land which are really powerful and bounce off walls for a bit. She can pull out other random items like Peach can like bob-ombs and blue shells. Their new final smash is from Super Mario Run I think? a bunch of Toads come to cheer them on as they vault over blocks and ram into the fighters.

Also here's a link to the developing leak if you want to ask anything of our "leaker"

The Down-B is too distinct that I believe that would kinda go against the Echo name, personally. It seems to function differently.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

reboot with a melee sized roster, you say?


ultfox:

note: I didn't put any logical thought into this and just put in who I'd like. if you'd like an actual logical thought one it'd probably be close to...

(or Ganon)

EDIT: I FORGOT MARTH AAAA uh put marth in there instead of sonic or WFT

 

[Cosmic77]

If we don’t get Lyn or Celica, I will gladly take Chrom as an Echo. He’s very popular, and the only main character from Awakening not to be playable in Smash so I could see him and would welcome him to the roster with open arms.

I'd be upset with this for two reasons.

(1) Fire Emblem already has an Echo Fighter. Other franchises besides FE have potential clone characters, Sakurai.
(2) I like a variety of games being represented on the roster. Three characters from Awakening is mirroring the same problem Warriors had.

 

[Pakky]

Two leaks today.

Spoiler: Leak

http://boards.4chan.org/v/thread/422601087

I'm a contract tester so I don't have the fancy badge color like the actual employees do. Due to the last incident from 2014, phones aren't allowed anymore in the testing area so there's that. I have no clue about trailers and dates, that's probably something only people super involved in the project (not testers) know.​

​

66 is Bandana Waddle Dee, 67 is Dixie Kong, 68 is King K. Rool, 69 is Elma, 70 is Mimikyu, 71 is Tibby, and 72 is Ayumi(from that Japanese detective game). 45ε is Isabelle.​

​

Bandana Waddle Dee plays like he does in the Kirby games, it's nothing too special. His final smash is a cutscene where a gigantic ball of Waddle Dees slam into the fighters.​

​

Dixie Kong plays like Diddy Kong, but more differences so she's not an echo fighter. She has a gun filled with gumballs that fires rapidly but can still explode and some of her moves and grab use her hair, but everything else is not too different than Diddy. They both have the same new final smash too, where they call Rambi and ram into everyone in front of them.​

The King is probably one of the heaviest characters in the game. His jumps are awful but his recovery is decent, it's like a poorly-made mechanical jetpack that explodes after a certain time in the air and the blades damage anyone who comes in contact. Standard special is his gigantic musket that looks hilarious when Kirby is using it. Down special is him slamming into the ground and having a giant cannonball fall on either side of him. Side special is tossing his crown like a boomerang. His moves are standard fare like the final boss fights from the games, but his Final smash has his him calling all of his other personas to wail on the other fighters in a really comedic manner. Those other costumes are also in the game to wear.​

Elma uses a variety of futuristic weapons. I never played Xenoblade X but a flashing arrow box appears by her portrait and if you follow up with the special the arrow alludes to, it does more damage. Her final smash calls a bunch of soldiers and giant mechs and they charge the other fighters.

Mimikyu takes less damage when its head is standing upright but takes regular damage when its head is wilted down, kind of like its ability from the game. You can put the head upright again by connecting its down special with another fighter. Special attacks are moves from the game like shadow claw as its standard and play rough as its side. Its final smash is unsurprisingly a Z-Move, but not the one exclusive to it.

I downloaded Rhythm Heaven after I played as Tibby just to get an idea of what is going on. His moveset alludes to so many of the games from that series that it was hard understanding the references. Standard special is based on the clappy trio game, up special is night walk, side special is Airboarder, and down special is tap trial. All of them do more damage if you follow the rhythm cues to them beofrehand but they may
Ayumi fights really differently. A lot of her basic moves and airs use a notepad and a pen as well as a briefcase so it feel like she's constantly jotting down observations or something. In her standard special she takes pictures with a camera. it does no damage but it can stun other fighters at the right distance. Her up special is like a startled jump? A noise like a telephone ringing or something crashing to the ground happens and she jumps up in fright, it's really weird but does a decent amount of damage. Side special summons a ghostly girl figure behind her and it charges forward and attacks but because it's behind you if you want to attack to the left you use the right special and vice versa. Her final smash summons a mirror with a ghostly figure in it that gets bigger and bigger until it breaks through and the shards shatter everywhere.

Isabelle plays like Villager with a few differences. Her final smash is a different public works project like a police station or a fancy statue. Up air is a clipboard instead of turnips, and her pocket ability can be converted into bells that make her other specials more powerful if you hold down the button with an item. Her balloon fight move damages others when it pops to utilize this.

Daisy's down special is flowers instead of turnips that get converted into items. The most common one is a fire flower that gives you a fireball, but there's also ice, gold, boomerang and the balls from Super Mario Land which are really powerful and bounce off walls for a bit. She can pull out other random items like Peach can like bob-ombs and blue shells. Their new final smash is from Super Mario Run I think? a bunch of Toads come to cheer them on as they vault over blocks and ram into the fighters.

Spoiler: Leak 2

http://boards.4chan.org/v/thread/422611629#p422612242
Sorry if this has weird formatting, I'm not at all used to the format of this site, but judging from the roster leak for Smash 4, this seems to be the safest place to leak.

And no, I'm not affiliated with the Smash 4 leaker, but I have heard a lot about him through the grapevine. Not a lot of good stuff, I'll assure you.

Anyway, i have some information through the grapevine that I can't help but be excited to show you guys.

Ok, so first things first: Nintendo, due to the legal and programming ****ery they had to go through to include every single character in ultimate, won't have very many newcomers. Instead, as seen so far by ridley, they are trying to include the craziest newcomers within the realm of possibility to drum up support for the game.
I only know of two of them. I don't know about anything beyond these.

First off, Simon Belmont. He is, in fact, playable, just as Vergeben said.
Throughout my time seeing Simon being played, I've gleaned these details. I haven't been paying close enough attention to tell you guys about the tilts and hitboxes, sorry.

His jab is to hit someone with his whip. Shocker. As detailed in the Smash Section of the E3 presentation, pressing the jab and holding results in rapid-fire strikes. Thus, Simon swipes with his whip multiple times when you utilize this technique.

His neutral special (Pretty Sure, could be side)
Simon throws a dagger with knockback. Like Sheik's needles, if its charged, he'll throw 3 daggers with significantly more knockback.

Side Special (Still not Sure, It could be his neutral) Simon slams his whip down in an arc above his head, causing knockback.

Up Special: Simon shoots his whip upwards, which can grasp on to a ledge. If it is used on solid ground and hits an an enemy in the air.
Simon slams them down to the ground in a very similar manner to his Neutral/Side (Again, Still not 100% Certain which one it is)

Down Special: Simon throws down a vial of holy water, which creates blue flames at his feet that burn the enemy in a similar manner to Ness' PK Fire.

Final Smash: Begins with a Whip Strike with a wider attack range. If it hits, Simon's whip becomes a flaming whip and he does several rapid-fire strikes. Then, he throws a large vial of holy water, which results in a large explosion of blue flames and significant knockback.

(Side Note: I've been writing this post in docs for a while now and was taking notes in my head while I viewed gameplay of simon, thats why this is carefully written.)

I don't actually know when simon will be revealed, but I know when this next character will be revealed, and I've seen his character trailer. The trailer will be shown on July 19.
The trailer will consist of Ganondorf beating up Mario, Link, and Samus in an animated video. The three will get up, clearly about to pass out, and Ganon will transform into Demon King Ganon. Then, Mario, Link, and Samus will all be knocked down by blue lasers. Ganon looks back, still as demon king Ganon, and then is blasted i the head by this blue laser. Immediately, yellow text will come up over Ganon's head, saying 'HEADSHOT" and "+1000 damage". The camera scrolls to a Gauss Cannon dropping to the floor, while the sound of vibrating energy reverberates. The camera pans up to a very familiar marine holding a plasma rifle.

DOOM SLAYER Locks and Loads!
(Note: The Headshot kill signs do not appear above Mario, Link, and Samus because Demon King Ganon is a Demon, get it?)

Then, the trailer shows the Doom Slayer's moveset.
His grabs seem to be references to his Glory Kills in Doom 2016. In fact, his entire moveset is based off of Doom 2016.

His Neutral Special is Firing his Plasma Rifle. Without Charging, it only fires three medium-speed blue orbs. When you charge it fully, the Slayer pulls out the Gauss Cannon, which is a powerful blast with significant knockback.

Side-Smash: The Slayer does an upward slash with his chainsaw, which knocks the opponent into the air.

Down-Smash: The Slayer tosses a frag grenade towards his feet, which explodes after 2 seconds. There's no limit to how many he can throw.

Up-Smash: A lot like Zelda's Up-Smash, the doom slayer spawns a hologram of himself a good bit above him, which the creator immediately assumes control over. (Just so you guys understand, this is a reference to the hologram from Doom 2016. It simply transports Doom Slayer upwards, and the former doom slayer vanishes in blue light. You immediately assume control of the hologram. No playstyle changes whatsoever.)

Final Smash: The Slayer pulls out the BFG 9000 and fires a green blast, which explodes into a huge burst of green energy with a **** ton of knockback. Almost a guaranteed kill if you are hit with it at point blank.
Screencap this. Remember, July 19. Save the date.

Took to a shot at it and asked about Play Rough, that doesn't make sense to me.

The Doom Slayer stuff feels so fake that I believe, crap...

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

I'd be upset with this for two reasons.

(1) Fire Emblem already has an Echo Fighter. Other franchises besides FE have potential clone characters, Sakurai.
(2) I like a variety of games being represented on the roster. Three characters from Awakening is mirroring the same problem Warriors had.

That's hyperbole right there. Warriors had a horrible problem with roster balancing, whereas, even within the FE Representatives Awakening would only have 3/7 characters, less than the 6/21 Awakening had in Warriors.

Plus, two of those characters are easy to make clones. For the flagship game that saved the series, I'd be okay with Chrom.

Plus then we get to hear Matt Mercer in the game.

 

[Zinith]

Plus then we get to hear Matt Mercer in the game.

Why don't we just cut the middle man and just have Matt Mercer the actual person a playable character?

 

[Pakky]

Apparently the Doom Slayer stuff is fake... huh.

 

[Ze Diglett]

A 24-character reboot roster, huh? Alright, I'll throw in my two cents, considering I think some sort of reboot is likely after Ultimate:



Yes, R.O.B. is in this. I feel a historical rep would still be appropriate in a roster of this size, and the way I see it, R.O.B. is the most historical figure to Nintendo's past.
I based this roster mostly on who the current generation of gamers would be most likely to recognize considering how few character slots I had to work with, with a few legacy reps like Captain Falcon and Marth thrown in as well to satisfy the old-school Smash fans. I also prioritized granting representation to Nintendo's biggest and most popular franchises first, and giving more representation to the biggest ones of the lot (Mario, Zelda, DK, Kirby, and Pokemon).
Not even gonna bother with a roster of 12 because it would just feel wrong butchering the roster like that.