Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Idon]

I think arguing a hypothetical situation vs another hypothetical situation is rather unintuitive and kinda pointless to be honest.

 

[DarkFalcon]

I think arguing a hypothetical situation vs another hypothetical situation is rather unintuitive and kinda pointless.

I agree, but I'm bored and this is an interesting topic.

 

[Cosmic77]

I've been looking through these character reactions, and I've gotta say, the average opinion on Decidueye has taken a drastic turn. Two months ago, this bird was one of the most hype characters you could support, but right now, I'm seeing a lot of "mehs" and "okays" in this thread. And it's not just here; it was like this in the RTC thread a few weeks ago too.

Something weird is going on. Have people lost interest in Decidueye? Have people lost interest in a Pokémon newcomer in general?

 

[Nani?]

Alright! Here's the responses to your questions!

1. What did you want to do before you became an actor?

Well, I was gonna be a lawyer and a diplomat. I wanted to live in London and and do work with the American (*???)

2. What are Mario, Luigi, Wario, and Waluigi's favorite meals?

Spaghetti meatballs, spaghetti meatballs, pizza, pizza.

3. What are your thoughts on Waluigi not being in Smash?

Ah, no comment. WAH!



Well, thanks for the questions guys! Also, when Charles Martinet said no comment, he said it in a sort of snarky, playful way, and I must say I got a kick out of that. Anyways, thanks for the questions!

* Couldn't tell what he was saying.

 

[Zinith]

Yoshi "repping" his own series and Luigi not is really just due to a technicality. Yoshi got his spinoff before Smash 64, Luigi didn't get his spinoff until after Smash 64. They're both just Mario characters who happen to star in a couple of their own games on the side.

Luigi's Mansion still has that Mario feel to it, like Captain Toad, while Yoshi's series has an aesthetic and feel that is separate from Mario, even if they do have similar enemies

 

[Shyy_Guy595]

Agree to disagree on the Splatoon thing. FPS games centered around such a gimmick as Splatoon would need some EXCELLENT innovation to make new installments feel fresh.

I suppose it wouldn't matter that much, as every FPS game made today all seem like rehashed material with maybe one or two new mechanics and updated graphics trying to pass off as "new" and yet, the cult following drives it, so maybe.

 

[KMDP]

Alright! Here's the responses to your questions!

1. What did you want to do before you became an actor?

Well, I was gonna be a lawyer and a diplomat. I wanted to live in London and and do work with the American (*???)

* Couldn't tell what he was saying.

From the context, I'm gonna say he likely said "American Embassy"

 

[Pacack]

Agree to disagree on the Splatoon thing. FPS games centered around such a gimmick as Splatoon would need some EXCELLENT innovation to make new installments feel fresh.

Correct. Same with racing games like Mario Kart.

And yet.

I suppose it wouldn't matter that much, as every FPS game made today all seem like rehashed material with maybe one or two new mechanics and updated graphics trying to pass off as "new" and yet, the cult following drives it, so maybe.

Yep. Add a new campaign and new weapons, and people will buy it.

 

[vaanrose]

Luigi's Mansion still has that Mario feel to it, like Captain Toad, while Yoshi's series has an aesthetic and feel that is separate from Mario, even if they do have similar enemies

Eh, now you're just showing your bias, lol. Luigi's mansion is at least a completely different genre. Yoshi's series was just a slow evolution from playing Mario riding on Yoshi, to playing the same type of game except now you're Yoshi carrying Mario, to playing the same type of game except now you're just Yoshi. It's mechanically much more similar to "classic" Mario than Luigi's Mansion or Captain Toad are.

 

[Dracyoshi]

I've been looking through these character reactions, and I've gotta say, the average opinion on Decidueye has taken a drastic turn. Two months ago, this bird was one of the most hype characters you could support, but right now, I'm seeing a lot of "mehs" and "okays" in this thread. And it's not just here; it was like this in the RTC thread a few weeks ago too.

Something weird is going on. Have people lost interest in Decidueye? Have people lost interest in a Pokémon newcomer in general?

Gen 7 hype is dying down, especially now that Gen 8 is announced and is coming in 2019. Decidueye would have an awesome moveset and fit well into Smash but I'm concerned that he'll start losing relevancy like Greninja did. Also, what if the Gen 8 grass starter is even more popular?

In addition, Greninja is now our only starter rep because Charizard was moved back under Pokemon Trainer. The "We need a grass starter to complete the trio!" argument is dead. And if you include Charizard anyway, then you've got to include Ivysaur as well.

But I'd still love to see Decidueye, the moveset potential is great. A ghostly grass archer has tons of potential for one of the most unique playstyles yet.

 

[Impa4Smash]

Explain Olimar tho???

Pikmin is probably more relevant than Mother (series is complete) and F-Zero (series is dead).

Star Fox. I dunno. Zero didn’t do too well, but Pikmin 3 did great and Pikmin 4 seems to be in development

 

[Zinith]

Eh, now you're just showing your bias, lol. Luigi's mansion is at least a completely different genre. Yoshi's series was just a slow evolution from playing Mario riding on Yoshi, to playing the same type of game except now you're Yoshi carrying Mario, to playing the same type of game except now you're just Yoshi. It's mechanically much more similar to "classic" Mario than Luigi's Mansion or Captain Toad are.

Now hold on. Comparing 2D platformers with each other is just silly. Yoshi has completely different abilities and physics in his own series than Mario and vice versa. It's like comparing Mario to Sonic

 

[DarkFalcon]

Pikmin is probably more relevant than Mother (series is complete) and F-Zero (series is dead).

Star Fox. I dunno. Zero didn’t do too well, but Pikmin 3 did great and Pikmin 4 seems to be in development

Pikmin 4 has apparently been almost done for years now. I'm so confused why we haven't seen it yet.

 

[Nani?]

From the context, I'm gonna say he likely said "American Embassy"

Yeah, I think that was it.

 

[ThyCheshireCat]

Gonna be honest, setting a 12 limit was a dumb idea from the start, yes it's a fun idea but it's bound to cause disputes and stuff, like i can see why it was done (12 was the number 64 had) but is 12 seriously gonna be what the reboot gives us? no, i'd be surprised if we got less than 20, and even then i at least expect 30-40 characters from a possible reboot.

 

[Impa4Smash]

Pikmin 4 has apparently been almost done for years now. I'm so confused why we haven't seen it yet.

Did Nintendo ever say if the Pikmin they were working on after 3 was Hey! Pikmin. I would hope not. If so, then...ouch

ThyCheshireCat No reboot would honestly be best. Any cuts after Ultimate will just create salt. So much salt

 

[Shyy_Guy595]

As I've said before, any Pokemon has moveset potential out the ass with most of the moves they can learn.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

I think Yoshi is more tightly wound to Mario than DK due to it's specific nature to have each of them cameo, or be all out featured, in one another's game. Like, DK, yeah he appears in the Spin-Off Mario games but Mario doesn't appear in the Country games at all. Yoshi is prominently featured in Super Mario World, New Super Mario Bros. Wii and U, Sunshine, Galaxy 1 and 2, and Oddysey. And Baby Mario is heavily featured throughout the Yoshi's Island games.

Nevertheless the Yoshi series has proven that it has it's own brand of aesthetics from it's colorful hand-drawn crayon inspired Island games to the more arts & crafts style of 64, Woolly World, and Yoshi Switch which is more than enough to warrant its series stated as a fully fleshed out separate franchise. Oddly enough though, DK was featured in Yoshi's Island DS which just muddles the argument even more.

 

[Deleted member]

I do think cutting is kinda rude

but unfortunately kind of necessary

 

[DarkFalcon]

Gonna be honest, setting a 12 limit was a dumb idea from the start, yes it's a fun idea but it's bound to cause disputes and stuff, like i can see why it was done (12 was the number 64 had) but is 12 seriously gonna be what the reboot gives us? no, i'd be surprised if we got less than 20, and even then i at least expect 30-40 characters from a possible reboot.

I think it's a fine discussion to have. Thinking about who of the original 12 would ever be cut in a reboot is an interesting topic. It's fine to see different opinions on it.

Did Nintendo ever say if the Pikmin they were working on after 3 was Hey! Pikmin. I would hope not. If so, then...ouch

ThyCheshireCat No reboot would honestly be best. Any cuts after Ultimate will just create salt. So much salt

I'm pretty sure it's not that. We've only had a few statements about the game so we know it exists.

 

[Pacack]

Did Nintendo ever say if the Pikmin they were working on after 3 was Hey! Pikmin. I would hope not. If so, then...ouch

Confirmed to be Pikmin 4. It was confirmed to be "almost done" a couple years ago.

 

[KMDP]

Gonna be honest, setting a 12 limit was a dumb idea from the start, yes it's a fun idea but it's bound to cause disputes and stuff, like i can see why it was done (12 was the number 64 had) but is 12 seriously gonna be what the reboot gives us? no, i'd be surprised if we got less than 20, and even then i at least expect 30-40 characters from a possible reboot.

This is why I set my reboot list up the way I did. 12 'essentials' (12 being a coincidence, actually XD), with other characters after being lower priority for one reason or another. I ended up with 25 characters, around the same as Melee, which is a fine 'trim the fat' number.

 

[DarkFalcon]

I think Yoshi is more tightly wound to Mario than DK due to it's specific nature to have each of them cameo, or be all out featured, in one another's game. Like, DK, yeah he appears in the Spin-Off Mario games but Mario doesn't appear in the Country games at all. Yoshi is prominently featured in Super Mario World, New Super Mario Bros. Wii and U, Sunshine, Galaxy 1 and 2, and Oddysey. And Baby Mario is heavily featured throughout the Yoshi's Island games.

Nevertheless the Yoshi series has proven that it has it's own brand of aesthetics from it's colorful hand-drawn crayon inspired Island games to the more arts & crafts style of 64, Woolly World, and Yoshi Switch which is more than enough to warrant its series stated as a fully fleshed out separate franchise. Oddly enough though, DK was featured in Yoshi's Island DS which just muddles the argument even more.

They really should have stuck with the hand drawn aesthetic. I can't help but see modern Yoshi as bootleg Kirby visually. Idk why. Modern Yoshi games just feel visually uninspired.

 

[ThyCheshireCat]

No reboot would honestly be best. Any cuts after Ultimate will just create salt. So much salt

Gonna actually agree here TBH, but i think a Story Mode could cover some of the salt wounds that the character cuts will give, it just depends on who is cut.

 

[Dracyoshi]

Now hold on. Comparing 2D platformers with each other is just silly. Yoshi has completely different abilities and physics in his own series than Mario and vice versa. It's like comparing Mario to Sonic

To be fair, so does the floaty Luigi in the 2D platformers and vaccuum-ing ghosts Luigi in the Luigi's Mansion series.

Alright, I've decided to try for a 24 character roster. Here's my final roster:




The series that I doubled up on are Mario, Zelda and Pokemon, the biggest Nintendo franchises. They each have two reps.
Each Mario spinoff series (DK, Wario, Yoshi, Luigi) is considered separate and thus make the roster. They've all earned a spot anyway.

 

[AlphaSSB]

Given Sakurai's famitsu column, he was talking about how he was faced with the decision of creating a completely new game, but with only a third of the roster, or build off of pre-existing assets into Ultimate. I'd say that if we end up getting a reboot, it'd probably be around 22 characters, rather than 12.

So, if we're going by 22

 

[vaanrose]

Now hold on. Comparing 2D platformers with each other is just silly. Yoshi has completely different abilities and physics in his own series than Mario and vice versa. It's like comparing Mario to Sonic

I'm not saying the game isn't different. I am saying it's not nearly as different as Luigi's Mansion or Captain Toad is, like you were claiming.

Many of the characteristics of Yoshi's Island/Yoshi's Story are built on the groundwork laid in Super Mario World. Some of the new mechanics introduced in Yoshi's Island, such as Yoshi's flutter kick, have even been carried over in to the traditional Mario games where he's back to being a steed, pulling the two game types closer together again.

 

[Shyy_Guy595]

Let's all agree on one thing: Mario, Link, Pikachu, and Kirby are the givens.

As for the next four: Samus, DK, Marth, and Yoshi would be the next in line.

As for the final third: Villager, Olimar, maybe Inkling, and maybe Fox, although I feel I'm forgetting someone important.

The last third of the roster is easily the most divisve part of speculation here.

 

[Sharkarat]

My 12 Would be

Next 8 for a Full 20.

- Pokemon Trainer is placeholder for a second pokemon character.
- Luigi is depedendant on how the reboot is done. But seriously guys, he's not that unique. He's bit of a coward, has poltergust, but his most defining trait is being similar but slightly different from Mario.
- Probably Pit if no 3rd party.
- Bayonetta isn't completely unlikely if Sonic is in, since Sega is already on board, she's almost a nintendo character at this point, She's popular, and fills a gameplay niche.

 

[vaanrose]

Captain Falcon would 100% be in a Smash reboot. But he'd 100% NOT be in Smash if it was a brand new franchise coming out next year. That's an important distinction, imo.

 

[DarkFalcon]

Let's all agree on one thing: Mario, Link, Pikachu, and Kirby are the givens.

As for the next four: Samus, DK, Marth, and Yoshi would be the next in line.

As for the final third: Villager, Olimar, maybe Inkling, and maybe Fox, although I feel I'm forgetting someone important.

The last third of the roster is easily the most divisve part of speculation here.

I'd put Samus and DK as givens. Raise Fox and Inklings up, and there you go.

 

[Deleted member]

Why is Marth so important am I missing something?

 

[ThyCheshireCat]

Why is Marth so important am I missing something?

It's simply due to FE's popularity and recent sales.

 

[Pacack]

Lemme do a hypothetical reboot roster with Melee-levels of characters (26) just for the hell of it.

​

 

[DarkFalcon]

Why is Marth so important am I missing something?

Marth is THE Fire Emblem rep. Even if everyone else got cut, Marth is here to stay.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

The series that I doubled up on are Mario, Zelda and Pokemon, the biggest Nintendo franchises. They each have two reps.

I see three Mario characters

Let's all agree on one thing: Mario, Link, Pikachu, and Kirby are the givens.

As for the next four: Samus, DK, Marth, and Yoshi would be the next in line.

As for the final third: Villager, Olimar, maybe Inkling, and maybe Fox, although I feel I'm forgetting someone important.

The last third of the roster is easily the most divisve part of speculation here.

I’d say the original 12 would be guaranteed spots due to starting the Smash series

Given Sakurai's famitsu column, he was talking about how he was faced with the decision of creating a completely new game, but with only a third of the roster, or build off of pre-existing assets into Ultimate. I'd say that if we end up getting a reboot, it'd probably be around 22 characters, rather than 12.

So, if we're going by 22

Something about Peach not being there but Diddy is...that would just feel so weird

 

[Idon]

Why is Marth so important am I missing something?

Because Fire Emblem is important.
And to represent Fire Emblem, your options are Marth, the first protagonist, or Anna, a very recurring shopkeeper. Most people tend to opt for Marth.

 

[Zinith]

I'm not saying the game isn't different. I am saying it's not nearly as different as Luigi's Mansion or Captain Toad is, like you were claiming.

Many of the characteristics of Yoshi's Island/Yoshi's Story are built on the groundwork laid in Super Mario World. Some of the new mechanics introduced in Yoshi's Island, such as Yoshi's flutter kick, have even been carried over in to the traditional Mario games where he's back to being a steed, pulling the two game types closer together again.

Actually Yoshi's Island was developed specifically to push the hardware limits of the SNES and that Miyamoto was unhappy with the Yoshi games prior. There is almost no gameplay similarity to Yoshi in SMW and Yoshi in YI. Yes, elements to Yoshi's moveset was incorporated into later Mario games, but in those cases they're supplemental. In a general sense, Yoshi games =/= Mario games

 

[Will]

Why is Marth so important am I missing something?

Fire Emblem sells like hotcakes now ever since FE13 released. Ironic since it was meant to be the last game since the others didnt sell that well. Marth is the most reoccurring character in the series, either in name or in appearance.

Still mad the icon for the series is his Falchion and not like the actual Fire Emblem.

 

[Shyy_Guy595]

I was separating them by fours.

It's clear to see that from the promotional material, Smash considers Mario, Link, Pikachu, and Kirby as the Big Four, and I sincerely doubt that they would go before Samus and DK tbh