Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Hinata]

Favorite starters?

Grass: Sceptile <- Chesnaught <- Decidueye <- Serperior <- Meganium <- Venusaur <- Torterra

Fire: Blaziken <- Charizard <- Typhlosion <- Incineroar <- Infernape <- Emboar <- Delphox

Water: Swampert <- Empoleon <- Blastoise <- Feraligatr <- Greninja <- Samurott <- Primarina

Hard to list them in order, all together. Sceptile definitely number one for me, with Delphox at last.

I don't have nearly enough of an opinion to list all the starters from best to worst, but I know that Popplio is my number one, and Froakie and Oshawott are up there too.

I like the water-types the best.

 

[Capybara Gaming]

I come bearing "gifts" from 4chan. The count has been updated.

Spoiler: Leak 1

https://boards.fireden.net/v/thread/421999854/#421999854
Nintendo has been telling people that what we've been shown of Smash Bros Ultimate is just the tip of the iceberg, and they weren't kidding. The full roster is being passed around and it’s clear they want this game to be the definitive Smash. Sakurai's comment on not many new fighters was a feint so he can shatter expectations. I find this roster hard to believe myself but I trust my source.

Newcomers
>Inkling
>Ridley
>Paper Mario
>K. Rool
>Dixie Kong
>Ashley
>Waddle Dee
>Decidueye
>Slippy
>Viridi
>Chorus Kids
>Excitebike
>Geno
>Banjo-Kazooie

Echo Fighters
>Daisy
>Isabelle
>Dark Samus
>Impa
>Chrom
>Black Shadow
>Louie
>Shadow

If this leak was true, that would actually be a legit awesome and full roster. Granted, Shadow puts a bit of a damper on this, and Louie seems kinda pointless, but with a roster that massive, I couldn't complain.

Too bad Excitebiker and Chorus Kids completely kill the chances of this being real.

 

[Noipoi]

I like Rowlet, but Decidueye is too overhyped for me to like it, same with Greninja and Sceptile.
Which is why Decidueye shouldn't be in smash.

 

[Honest Slug]

Too bad excitebiker and Chorus Kids completely kill the chances of this being real.

A character that has lots of hints towards being a planned character in Smash 4 kills the chances of the leak being real?

I don't believe the leak for a second, seems like a wishlist pipe dream. But I don't see how Chorus Kids are that unrealistic.

 

[Hinata]

I don't think there's a starter I actively dislike. They all have cool designs, and good movesets.

Honestly, I'd be fine with pretty much any Pokemon getting into Smash.

 

[Deleted member]

I guess I'll hop on the starter bandwagon as well (even though I technically started it)

S tier: Greninja, Decidueye
A tier: Samurott, Venusaur, Swampert, Infernape, Primarina, Blaziken, Incineroar, Sceptile
B tier: Typhlosion, Empoleon, Blastoise, Torterra, Charizard
C tier: Emboar, Chesnaught
D- tier: Meganium, Feraligatr. Serperior
F tier: Delphox

 

[CJ Falcon]

Only four more newcomers? Even I think that's way too pessimistic.

You say pessimistic, I say realistic.

 

[Pyra]

Eh, it's okay.
You're entitled to your own wrong opinion, after all.

I mean, Decidueye is better, I'm not arguing that, my dude.
But also I like Delphox and I'm gonna tell Sakurai to put it in the game over Decidueye now.

 

[KMDP]

I don't think there's a starter I actively dislike. They all have cool designs, and good movesets.

I mean, I wish Meganium's movepool (along with Lilligant because she has the same problem) were a little less shallow.

 

[Deleted member]

I like Rowlet, but Decidueye is too overhyped for me to like it, same with Greninja and Sceptile.
Which is why Decidueye shouldn't be in smash.

I suggest you run. Now.
I'm joking just in case it wasn't clear

 

[Noipoi]

I don't think there's a starter I actively dislike. They all have cool designs, and good movesets.

Honestly, I'd be fine with pretty much any Pokemon getting into Smash.

Same, I don't hate any starter, even Emboar The worst one.

Edit: Jokes on you Lampy! I love Chandelure!

 

[Idon]

Favorite starters?

Grass: Sceptile <- Chesnaught <- Decidueye <- Serperior <- Meganium <- Venusaur <- Torterra

Fire: Blaziken <- Charizard <- Typhlosion <- Incineroar <- Infernape <- Emboar <- Delphox

Water: Swampert <- Empoleon <- Blastoise <- Feraligatr <- Greninja <- Samurott <- Primarina

Hard to list them in order, all together. Sceptile definitely number one for me, with Delphox at last.

Oh I thought you were using the "greater than" sign and was wondering how someone could have such terrible taste.
Glad you cleared that up for me.

 

[Cosmic77]

You say pessimistic, I say realistic.

Sakurai had three years to make a single game where almost everything could be directly copied from Smash Wii U and adjusted.

Even with all the returning veterans, I don't see why six unique newcomers would be his limit.

 

[KMDP]

Sakurai had three years to make a single game where almost everything could be directly copied from Smash Wii U and adjusted.

Even with all the returning veterans, I don't see why six unique newcomers would be his limit.

Friendly reminder that if Sakurai included 11/12 newcomers, it would still be less than the average number of Newcomers (Melee had +13, I think Smash 4 had +18?)
(I'm agreeing with you Cosmic77 )

 

[Deleted member]

Edit: Jokes on you Lampy! I love Chandelure!

My Chandelure reactions are a running gag because it's usually my mascot. Decidueye is only my avatar for the current Smash Speculation season.
Also I'm not sure you'd love it that much anymore when it'll try to burn your soul. :V

 

[Capybara Gaming]

A character that has lots of hints towards being a planned character in Smash 4 kills the chances of the leak being real?

I don't believe the leak for a second, seems like a wishlist pipe dream. But I don't see how Chorus Kids are that unrealistic.

Thing is, we have no hard evidence that the planned Rhythm Heaven representative was these three. Neat as the idea is, Gematsu didn't get everything right. The fact of the matter is that he could've taken a wild guess at the RH character. Gematsu missed out on Rosalina & Robin as well, so the leak was never perfectly credible. It's possible, but I don't think we can say that Chorus Kids were ever the exact RH rep, considering it was likely canned early in development anyway.

 

[Honest Slug]

64 had +12 newcomers
Melee had +14 newcomers
Brawl had +18 newcomers
Smash 4 had +17 newcomers at launch

I don't think the 10-12 range is too unrealistic

 

[Fenriraga]

Sakurai saying "Don't expect as many newcomers" is purely a blanket statement for damage control. He's said similar things in the past.

I do think the number will be less, but I also think it's not going to be by that noteable of a margin. He's had just as much time as any other Smash game.

 

[McSpanker]

Sakurai had three years to make a single game where almost everything could be directly copied from Smash Wii U and adjusted.

Even with all the returning veterans, I don't see why six unique newcomers would be his limit.

This has been one of my thought processes since he said that. This game has had just as much if not more development time as every other smash game. So far 2 newcomers + 6 (re-added) veterans + 1 echo.

Many of the smash 4 assests being re-used should greatly free up time to do other things. Unless there is some time of huge adventure mode or something else and we don't get many newcomers, then I'm really curious what all that extra time was used for lol

 

[Idon]

This has been one of my thought processes since he said that. This game has had just as much if not more development time as every other smash game. So far 2 newcomers + 6 (re-added) veterans + 1 echo.

Many of the smash 4 assests being re-used should greatly free up time to do other things. Unless there is some time of huge adventure mode or something else and we don't get many newcomers, then I'm really curious what all that extra time was used for lol

Smash Tour 2

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

I think a lot of it is Vergeben.

Not that Simon doesn't deserve it, but he was always just there before Vergeben mentioned him. Since then, though, he's in every leak.

Kinda funny how we're all expecting him because Snake is in. Remember when the rule was that we could only have one character per third-party company? Or before that when the rule was no third parties?

We may need to stop playing by our made up rules.

Next thing we know, Tails will end up being confirmed as a unique secondary rep for Sonic (then that one Melee code April Fools from a certain magazine will be completely fulfilled).

 

[KingofPhantoms]

I'm not really sure how many newcomers to expect at this point.

On one hand, getting all veterans back and rebalancing them must have been a hell of a job to do, and Sakurai has already expressed his hopes that we aren't expecting many newcomers this time as a result.

On the other hand, this game had more of a base to work off of via Smash 4 than past Smash games have, which should have at least made some work easier, and we can't be certain just how limited the newcomers will be at this point.

And that's not even getting into DLC possibilities. I'm talking the base roster, here.

 

[KMDP]

Sakurai saying "Don't expect as many newcomers" is purely a blanket statement for damage control. He's said similar things in the past.

I do think the number will be less, but I also think it's not going to be by that noteable of a margin. He's had just as much time as any other Smash game.

I think part of the reason people are being so conservative about newcomers this time, beyond Sakurai's statement, is that this particular Smash game has been revealed so close to launch.

It makes people think it's been in less dev time than it actually has.

EDIT: Come to think of it, that might also explain the "Expanded Port" thing.

 

[CJ Falcon]

Sakurai saying "Don't expect as many newcomers" is purely a blanket statement for damage control. He's said similar things in the past.

I do think the number will be less, but I also think it's not going to be by that noteable of a margin. He's had just as much time as any other Smash game.

He didn't say "don't expect as many" he said "don't expect much."

If the margin isn't going to be notable, why would he feel the need to note that our expectations should be low.

 

[Cosmic77]

Reminder that even the unique veterans like Snake and Pokémon Trainer don't take that long to make. Sakurai already knows exactly how those guys are going to play in Smash, so all he really has to do is copy what he did in Brawl and make some minor tweaks.

Newcomers take waaaay longer. Gotta create a whole new moveset from scratch and ditch some ideas that can't work. A lot more trial and error is involved here than with a veteran.

 

[McSpanker]

He didn't say "don't expect as many" he said "don't expect much."

If the margin isn't going to be notable, why would he feel the need to note that our expectations should be low.

I feel like he's always been a lowballer, but it probably is less than usual. But still, 10 newcomers is less than usual. especially if a few are echos

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Wow.

All these people with completely awful starter opinions.

Ya'll have dumb opinions.

Mine are better.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Wow.

All these people with completely awful starter opinions.

Ya'll have dumb opinions.

Mine are better.

Put your money where your mouth is, Swamp.

Show us your opinions.

 

[Deleted member]

Has anyone considered Sakurai's statement was an attempt to throw us off?
He said "I hope you're not expecting that many new challengers". There are many ways that statement can be interpeted. Maybe he actually means "there will be even more newcomers than you expect"?
Just food for thought. I don't believe that personally, but who knows? We'll find out soon enough.

 

[Hinata]

64 had +12 newcomers
Melee had +14 newcomers
Brawl had +18 newcomers
Smash 4 had +17 newcomers at launch

I don't think the 10-12 range is too unrealistic

Well, those games also didn't reveal 66 characters all at the same time.

With that said, though, I think 10 is a good number.

 

[SlickWylde]

The only leak I come close to believing is the second one, and even then I don't buy it.

Only four more newcomers? Even I think that's way too pessimistic.

It's also literally only characters that the Smash community has been speculating, so it's obvious (to me) that it's a fan wishlist. Also, I don't think any 4 of those are getting in tbh.

@Lampy I'm not sure how you could interpret "I hope you're not expecting too many" as "there will be even more"? I wouldn't start thinking about stuff like that, it's a good way to get disappointed. Take his statement at face value, and you can only be pleasantly surprised. If he only adds 9 characters, I feel like half this sub is going to get really angry, when he tried to warn us.

 

[Idon]

As soon as your starter can do an IZUNA DROP on another Pokemon, hit me up.

Until then, Sceptile is the coolest, of all time, ever.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Has anyone considered Sakurai's statement was an attempt to throw us off?
He said "I hope you're not expecting that many new challengers". There are many ways that statement can be interpeted. Maybe he actually means "there will be even more newcomers than you expect"?
Just food for thought. I don't believe that personally, but who knows? We'll find out soon enough.

I mean, he is a bit of a prankster creator at times.
>E3 report
>Smash Bros is about Nintendo characters fighting each other
> THE END
> (lol just kidding)

 

[viewtifulduck82]

Thing is, we have no hard evidence that the planned Rhythm Heaven representative was these three. Neat as the idea is, Gematsu didn't get everything right. The fact of the matter is that he could've taken a wild guess at the RH character. Gematsu missed out on Rosalina & Robin as well, so the leak was never perfectly credible. It's possible, but I don't think we can say that Chorus Kids were ever the exact RH rep, considering it was likely canned early in development anyway.

While we dont know for certain that chorus kids were the rhythm heaven rep we missed out on, it does make a lot of sense.
Faulting the gematsu leak for NOT including something is also really flawed logic. Iirc the leak didnt say that would be all of the newcomers, so it doesnt lose any points for that. A leak can only lose points for things it says that ended up being incorrect.

The leak missed out on chorus kids and chrom, and we found out later down the line that both were considered at some point. Cant really say gematsu lost any points, the leak was just outdated by the time we got it.

 

[CJ Falcon]

He said "I hope you're not expecting that many new challengers". There are many ways that statement can be interpeted. Maybe he actually means "there will be even more newcomers than you expect"?

I have no idea where you're getting that interpretation from.

 

[Murlough]

Has anyone considered Sakurai's statement was an attempt to throw us off?
He said "I hope you're not expecting that many new challengers". There are many ways that statement can be interpeted. Maybe he actually means "there will be even more newcomers than you expect"?
Just food for thought. I don't believe that personally, but who knows? We'll find out soon enough.

He's busting his behind for the fans and I personally don't want to be another tool who throws a hissy fit because my inflated expectations aren't met. I'd like to think he's just messing with us but I also feel like he's done more than enough already. Anything after E3 is icing to me.

Besides if you don't expect anything more and he ends up giving us 3 newcomers you can unironically say "Gee willikers Batman thats awesome!" But if you expected 9 newcomers and got 3 you're left with "AW, shucks Batman thats so lame!"

I don't know what I'm even typing about anymore.

Basically, I think its safer and more fair to Sakurai to expect what he's told us to expect. If he does pull out 15 more characters then fantastic but please don't expect that people.

EDIT: I accidently hit a key that made Smashboards full screen and I can't find the X to close the screen send help

 

[Honest Slug]

With the game really pushing the "ultimate" aspect I don't know why Sakurai would temper expectations like that. I mean he can be somewhat troll-ish but it doesn't make much sense to not get people even more excited at the prospect of a lot of newcomers if there is a lot.

 

[Idon]

Has anyone considered Sakurai's statement was an attempt to throw us off?
He said "I hope you're not expecting that many new challengers". There are many ways that statement can be interpeted. Maybe he actually means "there will be even more newcomers than you expect"?
Just food for thought. I don't believe that personally, but who knows? We'll find out soon enough.

Yeah and maybe Sakurai's secretly got every character ever in Smash.

I'd prefer to go with the Occam's Razor approach of just going with the prediction that has the least amount of assumptions.


And no, you can't just respond to all skepticism with "Hey, it's Sakurai! You never know with that guuuuuy!"

 

[Shyy_Guy595]

So... I know it's doubtful, but does anyone think the newfound Tennis trend of Bowser Jr. being equivalent to Brawl Meta Knight will transfer over to this game?

...just buff the poor kid, Sakurai. He has no reason to be worse than Mario in a Doctor's outfit and the only core Mario character that's a literal joke while the rest are all upper-mid to top tier.

 

[KingBroly]

People should probably treat the old veterans returning as newcomers for all intent and purposes. Same thing as Clones/Echoes.

If you're looking for 16-18 newcomers, you need to take Squirtle, Ivysaur, Pichu, Wolf, Ice Climbers, Snake, Young Link, Daisy, Ridley and Inkling into account. That leaves you with 7-9 more characters with some of that number being Echo Fighters. At Best.