Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[TMNTSSB4]

I don't think the proportions of the suit matter that much.

That’s what Samus looks like in ball form? That actually doesn’t seem too bad for her

 

[Will]

They put seven rings in hand in smash but not one of best final boss songs from the series smh...

I guess it's because the edgy teen demographic of the late 2000s was in love with the song.

 

[RandomAce]

That’s what Samus looks like in ball form? That actually doesn’t seem too bad for her

She’s probably in a tucking position.

But yeah, I still think Mach Rider is a she. I mean we can get a new female character after all.

I kind of wish we get a new Mach Rider game, going through a deserted area filled with supernatural creatures while you desperately search for other survivors in a Mad Max: Fury Road style seems like an interesting idea, of course they will have to expand on it, but if it ever comes to fruition it can be another unique IP under Nintendo’s belt.

 

[Pacack]

Mac wasn't a traditional retro by the time he was revealed because he had a Wii game.

Little Mac was considered a retro character first and foremost by Sakurai, with his design being inspired by his arcade game and Famicom/NES release.

The arcade game Punch-Out!! has been in operation for 30 years. The copyright originates from 1983, the same year the Famicon was born. I was very shocked when I found this out. Little Mac has been drawn as wire-frame boxer, and [the game features] exaggerated enemy characters as if they were from cartoons from abroad. This was on a multi-screen device that resembled the Nintendo DS. Finally, it could produce synthesized speech. It’s not like other boxing games where you can recklessly punch away either, the player needs to think about the sequence of their punches logically The Famicon version of the game is more famous. I understand that. It is also a masterpiece.

This is why his KO punch isn't based on Wii's Star Meter, why he gets so many wireframe alts, and why his poster was based on his arcade. While his Wii release did provide his design (and likely helped with his inclusion), the game was not what he was primarily inspired by.

The toy was bought during the smash development so speculation is he was secretly referring to smash on that he didn't specified which game he's using the toy in

Besides didn't you listen sakurai only got it for the gun and r gun resembles Mach riders gun very well

Also we're not that requested at all

That was my mistake, I misunderstood and thought you were talking about the "Mach Rider" toy from the 1970s as a reason he might be considered. My b.

Tho, I’m still hoping that Ayumi makes it through the cracks somehow. Don’t we get like 2 retro characters every game?

We have gotten a character from the famicom era and a "surprise" character like Mr. Game and Watch, R.O.B., and Duck Hunt. Personally, I believe that the latter are included for their historical significance, which is different from the criteria for retros. Retros seem to rely on uniqueness more than anything, going off of Sakurai's statements about Ice Climbers.

Pit stopped being a retro once Uprising came out, same with Little Mac
All that’s left as true and current retros are , with no longer being so

Kinda. I think that a "retro" has to be known primarily for their Famicom/NES game, but can have had later releases. (At the time of their inclusions, Pit had Kid Icarus: Of Myths and Monsters and Little Mac has Punch Out!! Wii, but they were primarily known for their earlier ventures.)

 

[KingBroly]

I'm not saying whether or not Mach Rider is a women, I'm just noting that the trophy isn't a valid argument.

Also, while the first looks very different from the second, it's not like Nintendo hasn't done similarly strange things before. Samus' power suit is notoriously broad shouldered, to the point that neither a woman nor a man could fit inside it without doing serious damage to themselves. This makes her look much more masculine than her actual body type.

I mean, it's more connected than your statement makes it seem. Each round played slowly revealed a different part of the image, until eventually the final one was shown.

"Each time the player completed a level, an image was gradually revealed of a woman with a dagger standing next to Mach Rider's bike. It is unclear whether this is meant to represent Mach Rider's true identity, or if she is a survivor in the gated community of the resistance, as the only plot text in the game describes the 10 mission scenarios and she is not present in the NES original."

It's ambiguous. Probably on purpose.

The left arm being too long is the opposite problem Samus seems to have in some games.

 

[Delzethin]

Do we know if the gun was used for a character though? It could also be used for a boss or stage hazard, etc.

That's the thing, we have no idea what it was intended to be used as reference for. Could've even been for one of the Inkling's weapons!

Hard to make any snap judgments about it when we're left in the dark about its true purpose.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Little Mac was considered a retro character first and foremost by Sakurai, with his design being inspired by his arcade game and Famicom/NES release.

This is why his KO punch isn't based on Wii's Star Meter, why he gets so many wireframe alts, and why his poster was based on his arcade. While his Wii release did provide his design (and likely helped with his inclusion), the game was not what he was primarily inspired by.

Just gonna point out that the KO Punch comes from Super Punch-Out and not the original game, which handled things the same way Punch-Out Wii did.

But still, by your logic, I guess Mega Man and Pac-Man are retro characters too since their moveset originate from games that are around 25-30 years old.

 

[KMDP]

Spoiler

Man, if they put all three versions of One-Winged Angel (the Original, the Advent Children version and "The World's Enemy") in Smash, that'd be sick.

 

[Zema]

I'm pretty sure when she's in the Morph Ball form, she's in a tuck and roll position/fetal position/what I'm looking for. It would make the most sense considering her athleticism and whatnot.

Doesn't her body get transformed into energy when she's in her Morph ball form? At least, that's what I remember from the lore.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

All of you guys suggesting Mach Rider or Excitebiker or whoever to go with as the obligatory "retro rep" are missing a key detail here.

Those three were not added because of their retro status alone. That would be a character like . No, they were added to be the game's "surprise" characters, someone that no one would have been able to predict until they unlocked them (or the roster is leaked). As such, there would've have to been nothing in previous installments that happened that could lead to their inclusion - the closest example we have to breaking this rule is the Ducks trophy in Melee, but even then, that doesn't really hint anything as there's no trophy of the dog either.

What I'm saying is there can't be any hint from previous games that would lead to their inclusion. That would ruin their "surprise" factor. Additionally, as mentioned those three characters also represent the successful software/hardware Nintendo released back in the day, so that may have some connection to it as well. With that being said however, I personally don't expect another one of these characters, what with them seemingly focusing on fan requests this time around and that we aren't getting as many newcomers.

 

[KMDP]

*sees the post count*
Oh boy, who'll get the Lucky Post?
---

Those three were not added because of their retro status alone. That would be a character like . No, they were added to be the game's "surprise" characters, someone that no one would have been able to predict until they unlocked them (or the roster is leaked).

Mark my words, I know it's an unpopular opinion, but I still think the 'surprise character' this game is someone like Sephiroth. I'm aware that my predicting it precludes it from being a noone-can-predict-'em thing, but that's neither here nor there.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Kinda. I think that a "retro" has to be known primarily for their Famicom/NES game, but can have had later releases. (At the time of their inclusions, Pit had Kid Icarus: Of Myths and Monsters and Little Mac has Punch Out!! Wii, but they were primarily known for their earlier ventures.)

Well fortunately for Pit atleast, he’s now known for something both recent and superior (and I think he would’ve been known more for the original Kid Icarus game and now Uprising than the mostly/completely forgotten middle game, while Little Mac can go either way due to Mike Tyson and Mr.Dream)

As for how a retro is known for, kinda weird how there’s been no SNES retro characters of sorts so far

She’s probably in a tucking position.

But yeah, I still think Mach Rider is a she. I mean we can get a new female character after all.

I kind of wish we get a new Mach Rider game, going through a deserted area filled with supernatural creatures while you desperately search for other survivors in a Mad Max: Fury Road style seems like an interesting idea, of course they will have to expand on it, but if it ever comes to fruition it can be another unique IP under Nintendo’s belt.

As long as Samus is comfy enough

 

[Opossum]

Starter Pokémon? Okay.
Venusaur = Samurott > Greninja = Decidueye > Empoleon > Swampert > Emboar > Infernape > Primarina > Sceptile > Chesnaught > Torterra > Blastoise > Incineroar > Typhlosion > Blaziken >> Feraligatr > Meganium >>>> Charizard > Serperior > Delphox
That being said anything above Feraligatr is one I really like.

As for three songs I'd like to see?
Zinnia's Battle Theme
Divine Decree (Ablaze)
Twilight of the Gods

 

[Pacack]

Just gonna point out that the KO Punch comes from Super Punch-Out and not the original game, which handled things the same way Punch-Out Wii did.

But still, by your logic, I guess Mega Man and Pac-Man are retro characters too since their moveset originate from games that are around 25-30 years old.

Honestly, yeah, Pac-Man is very certainly a character that focuses on past iterations. Same with Mega Man, though he has a lot of more recent references.

That said, they were chosen for entirely different reasons than Ice Climbers, Pit, and Little Mac. Pac-Man is iconic, popular, and the mascot of Bandai-Namco (who helped to develop SSB4), and Mega Man was a heavily requested character and one of Capcom's two most iconic characters (alongside Ryu, who also relies a lot on his earlier appearances for his moveset.)

The difference, aside from them being third party, is that the Ice Climbers, Kid Icarus, and Punch-Out!! franchises are synonymous with the famicom era. Sure, other games were released, but their franchises were not at the same level as they were at that time. Mega Man still has game appearances, even if his franchise was in a weird place when he was included, and Pac-Man's franchise was still going strong with the Ghostly Adventures series despite its critical reception.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

*sees the post count*
Oh boy, who'll get the Lucky Post?
---

Mark my words, I know it's an unpopular opinion, but I still think the 'surprise character' this game is someone like Sephiroth. I'm aware that my predicting it precludes it from being a noone-can-predict-'em thing, but that's neither here nor there.

Whoever makes/made the lucky post gets their most wanted in the game

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

Just gonna point out that the KO Punch comes from Super Punch-Out and not the original game, which handled things the same way Punch-Out Wii did.

But still, by your logic, I guess Mega Man and Pac-Man are retro characters too since their moveset originate from games that are around 25-30 years old.

The K.O. Punch comes from the original arcade Punch-Out!

 

[Blargg888]

I hope we get another new remix soon. I'm really happy with what we have so far, and I can't wait to hear the rest of this game's soundtrack!

Whoever makes/made the lucky post gets their most wanted in the game

I guess we're getting K Rool then.

 

[Opossum]

Honestly though I'd love Mach Rider. Muddy Mole is my most wanted retro character, but Mach Rider is an incredibly close second.

 

[KMDP]

Whoever makes/made the lucky post gets their most wanted in the game

The K.O. Punch comes from the original arcade Punch-Out!
View attachment 150247

*dingdingding*
Congratulations, Godzillathewonderdog , you win! Who's your most wanted? (Gotta ask for the bit. XD)

 

[Murlough]

Starter tier list:
S: Incineroar, Decidueye, Swampert, Empoleon, Greninja, Primerina

A: Charizard, Typhlosion, Feraligatr, Meganium, Serperior, Infernape, Tortera, Sceptile, Blaziken

B: Blastoise, Venusaur

C: Chesnaught, Samurott

F: Delphox, Emboar

The first stage grass types are consistently the best though other than Gen 2, 4,and 7 where Cyndaquil, Piplup, and Popplio are strong contenders.

Also nothing is ordered in the tiers because I'm lazy and everythings already typed (inb4 I missed one starter).

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

That's the thing, we have no idea what it was intended to be used as reference for. Could've even been for one of the Inkling's weapons!

Hard to make any snap judgments about it when we're left in the dark about its true purpose.

Eh we've seen all of Inklings weapons and none really fit that guns design.

Am I the only one who still thinks it's weird Sakurai even mentioned the toy being used for the game? Like sure we didn't know it was Smash at the time but we do now! And he almost never gives hints about newcomers...really bizzare honestly. I think that's why I don't believe it's tied to a newcomer but it's still a weird thing he brought up.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

The K.O. Punch comes from the original arcade Punch-Out!
View attachment 150247

Huh... Didn't know that one.

I learned something today.

 

[Just a random scrub]

Blaziken was always more popular while Sceptile was a "pattern" character.

In the Brawl Hype days I had Blaziken in my mind as a Captain Falcon Clone like

B: Fire Punch
B-Side: Ariel Ace
B-Up: Sky Uppercut
B-Down: Blaze Kick

And with Echos, it could happen this time, you never know.

Yeah....... I don't know what it is, but now that I think of it, Falcon's moveset is strangely fitting on Blaziken, lol.

I don't think it would make sense as an echo, but he could work as a clone/semi-clone imo.

 

[Fenriraga]

I don't see echos that copy the Moveset of a character from another series as very likely. I.E. Blaziken being an Echo of Falcon.

The only time something like that has happened is with and even still they seem to be steering him away from his full clone status. Dorf was also pretty last minute.

I just feel like making an echo for a character not within the same franchise is kind of disrespectful to the base character. "Hey, this character is so boring that ANYONE could have their Moveset!"

We have Miis for that.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

I come bearing "gifts" from 4chan. The count has been updated.

Spoiler: Leak 1

https://boards.fireden.net/v/thread/421999854/#421999854
Nintendo has been telling people that what we've been shown of Smash Bros Ultimate is just the tip of the iceberg, and they weren't kidding. The full roster is being passed around and it’s clear they want this game to be the definitive Smash. Sakurai's comment on not many new fighters was a feint so he can shatter expectations. I find this roster hard to believe myself but I trust my source.

Newcomers
>Inkling
>Ridley
>Paper Mario
>K. Rool
>Dixie Kong
>Ashley
>Waddle Dee
>Decidueye
>Slippy
>Viridi
>Chorus Kids
>Excitebike
>Geno
>Banjo-Kazooie

Echo Fighters
>Daisy
>Isabelle
>Dark Samus
>Impa
>Chrom
>Black Shadow
>Louie
>Shadow

Spoiler: Leak 2

https://boards.fireden.net/v/thread/421999849/#421999849
Ashley reveal in July
Elma reveal in August/September
Simon reveal in October
K. Rool reveal in November

Spoiler: Leak 3

https://boards.fireden.net/v/thread/422041530/#422041530
The next two character reveals will be Alm from Fire Emblem Echoes and Spring Man from ARMS. Alm is Ike’s echo fighter and his final smash is Scendscale. Yes, he is also left handed in game. Mila’s Temple will also be revealed being a new stage. Spring Man will be revealed alongside Spring Stadium as a new stage. His final smash is summoning Hedlok and initiating a Rush attack.

Also, this is the DEFINITIVE Starter Tier List right here:

S: Charizard, Blaziken, Sceptile, Greninja, Decidueye
A: Blastoise, Feraligatr, Infernape, Serperior, Incineroar, Pikachu, Eevee
B: Venasaur, Typhlosion. Swampert, Empoleon
C: Torterra, Samurott, Delphox, Primarina
D: Meganium, Emboar
F: Chesnaught

 

[Blargg888]

I don't see echos that copy the Moveset of a character from another series as very likely. I.E. Blaziken being an Echo of Falcon.

The only time something like that has happened is with and even still they seem to be steering him away from his full clone status. Dorf was also pretty last minute.

I just feel like making an echo for a character not within the same franchise is kind of disrespectful to the base character. "Hey, this character is so boring that ANYONE could have their Moveset!"

We have Miis for that.

I wouldn't call the Mii movesets boring, but you're right about them being a template for other characters. I mean, that's pretty much the point.

 

[Hinata]

Spoiler: Leak 2

https://boards.fireden.net/v/thread/421999849/#421999849
Ashley reveal in July
Elma reveal in August/September
Simon reveal in October
K. Rool reveal in November

>Ashley reveal in July

God, please be true. Honestly, I'd be fine with ANY character reveal in July.

 

[KMDP]

>Ashley reveal in July

God, please be true. Honestly, I'd be fine with ANY character reveal in July.

Post I made in the Isaac thread.

I posted a couple of days ago on the Official thread about a theory I had for a sequence of doubled-up trailers (where Isaac was the only one on his own), while I can't currently go and get that post specifically, I'll post this updated version instead:
July Trailer: Incineroar
August Trailer: Isaac
September Trailer: Tails & Shadow
October (Halloween) Trailer: Ashley & Simon
November Trailer: K. Rool & Dixie
December (post-release) Trailer: Sephiroth (admit it, Sephiroth would cause explosive hype and drum up sales like crazy)

 

[Fenriraga]

I wouldn't call the Mii movesets boring, but you're right about them being a template for other characters. I mean, that's pretty much the point.

Yeah I meant that as them intentionally being template characters. I guess "Basic/moldable" is the better term. They aren't my cup of tea either way, but that's their purpose.

 

[Zippo]

I like Incineroar much more than I did when I initially saw its leaked concept art. It displays much more personality in-game than on the concept art.
Plus, it's a MAJOR step up from the previous Fire starter.

No lies detected. Gen 6's fire starter is a piece of ****.

 

[KMDP]

Post I made in the Isaac thread.

Actually, come to think of it, Sonic Mania Plus launches in July...
Yeah, just switch Incineroar and Tails + Shadow, that makes much more sense.

 

[Hinata]

Damn, I've been reading through those leak threads on 4chan, and people there have a huge, unbelievable hatred for Ashley. It's so jarring to see after seeing a fair amount of support for her here.

 

[Pyra]

I'm not afraid to say I genuinely love Delphox as a fire starter thanks

 

[KMDP]

Damn, I've been reading through those leak threads on 4chan, and people there have a huge, unbelievable hatred for Ashley. It's so jarring to see after seeing a fair amount of support for her here.

Maybe I should post my "Trailers Theory" as a "leak" and sit back and watch as they have a meltdown because Ashley (and a certain lopsided Angel) are on it.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Damn, I've been reading through those leak threads on 4chan, and people there have a huge, unbelievable hatred for Ashley. It's so jarring to see after seeing a fair amount of support for her here.

4chan has unbelievable hatred for a lot of things for no reason so idk what you expected

 

[Noipoi]

Damn, I've been reading through those leak threads on 4chan, and people there have a huge, unbelievable hatred for Ashley. It's so jarring to see after seeing a fair amount of support for her here.

Who's dissing Ashley? Is uncle Noipoi gonna have to slap a ho!?

 

[Hinata]

4chan has unbelievable hatred for a lot of things for no reason so idk what you expected

You know, that's a fair point.

 

[AlphaSSB]

Favorite starters?

Grass: Sceptile <- Chesnaught <- Decidueye <- Serperior <- Meganium <- Venusaur <- Torterra

Fire: Blaziken <- Charizard <- Typhlosion <- Incineroar <- Infernape <- Emboar <- Delphox

Water: Swampert <- Empoleon <- Blastoise <- Feraligatr <- Greninja <- Samurott <- Primarina

Hard to list them in order, all together. Sceptile definitely number one for me, with Delphox at last.

 

[Deleted member]

I come bearing "gifts" from 4chan. The count has been updated.

Spoiler: Leak 1

https://boards.fireden.net/v/thread/421999854/#421999854
Nintendo has been telling people that what we've been shown of Smash Bros Ultimate is just the tip of the iceberg, and they weren't kidding. The full roster is being passed around and it’s clear they want this game to be the definitive Smash. Sakurai's comment on not many new fighters was a feint so he can shatter expectations. I find this roster hard to believe myself but I trust my source.

Newcomers
>Inkling
>Ridley
>Paper Mario
>K. Rool
>Dixie Kong
>Ashley
>Waddle Dee
>Decidueye
>Slippy
>Viridi
>Chorus Kids
>Excitebike
>Geno
>Banjo-Kazooie

Echo Fighters
>Daisy
>Isabelle
>Dark Samus
>Impa
>Chrom
>Black Shadow
>Louie
>Shadow

This is the most unrealistic leak I've ever seen, but...

>Decidueye

PLS BE REAL

I'm not afraid to say I genuinely love Delphox as a fire starter thanks

Eh, it's okay.
You're entitled to your own wrong opinion, after all.

 

[Cosmic77]

I come bearing "gifts" from 4chan. The count has been updated.

Spoiler: Leak 1

https://boards.fireden.net/v/thread/421999854/#421999854
Nintendo has been telling people that what we've been shown of Smash Bros Ultimate is just the tip of the iceberg, and they weren't kidding. The full roster is being passed around and it’s clear they want this game to be the definitive Smash. Sakurai's comment on not many new fighters was a feint so he can shatter expectations. I find this roster hard to believe myself but I trust my source.

Newcomers
>Inkling
>Ridley
>Paper Mario
>K. Rool
>Dixie Kong
>Ashley
>Waddle Dee
>Decidueye
>Slippy
>Viridi
>Chorus Kids
>Excitebike
>Geno
>Banjo-Kazooie

Echo Fighters
>Daisy
>Isabelle
>Dark Samus
>Impa
>Chrom
>Black Shadow
>Louie
>Shadow

Spoiler: Leak 2

https://boards.fireden.net/v/thread/421999849/#421999849
Ashley reveal in July
Elma reveal in August/September
Simon reveal in October
K. Rool reveal in November

Spoiler: Leak 3

https://boards.fireden.net/v/thread/422041530/#422041530
The next two character reveals will be Alm from Fire Emblem Echoes and Spring Man from ARMS. Alm is Ike’s echo fighter and his final smash is Scendscale. Yes, he is also left handed in game. Mila’s Temple will also be revealed being a new stage. Spring Man will be revealed alongside Spring Stadium as a new stage. His final smash is summoning Hedlok and initiating a Rush attack.

Also, this is the DEFINITIVE Starter Tier List right here:

S: Charizard, Blaziken, Sceptile, Greninja, Decidueye
A: Blastoise, Feraligatr, Infernape, Serperior, Incineroar, Pikachu, Eevee
B: Venasaur, Typhlosion. Swampert, Empoleon
C: Torterra, Samurott, Delphox, Primarina
D: Meganium, Emboar
F: Chesnaught

The only leak I come close to believing is the second one, and even then I don't buy it.

Only four more newcomers? Even I think that's way too pessimistic.