Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Guybrush20X6]

August 3-5

Interesting, Would be a good time for a reveal but I'm not sure Nintendo would show up themselves unless they're really pushing for this one to be an eSport.

Though if another Street Fighter character is in...

 

[CJ Falcon]

Heihachi would be much better than another SF character.

 

[Shyy_Guy595]

Wario and Yoshi (and probably Bowser soon) are not upper-mid to top-tier. Bowser Jr. and Dr. Mario aren't the only ones...

Wario and Yoshi don't have the Mushroom symbol.

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

Heihachi would be much better than another SF character.

I'm inclined to agree... but if Sakurai told me to pick between Heihachi and M.Bison for the base roster, I'd most certainly pick the latter.

 

[Radical Bones]

I might be a few pages late, but this is clearly the absolute, 100% confirmed ranking of the starter Pokemon final evolutions:

S: Sceptile, Empoleon, Incineroar
A: Venusaur, Blastoise, Typhlosion, Decidueye
B: Charizard, Feraligatr, Serperior, Greninja
C: Meganium, Swampert, Torterra, Emboar
D: Blaziken, Infernape, Chesnaught
E: Samurott, Primarina
F: Delphox

 

[Dracyoshi]

Wario and Yoshi don't have the Mushroom symbol.

yeah, but besides the clones every fighter is grouped by series in Smash 4 and Yoshi is between Bowser and Rosalina. If Yoshi is between two Mario fighters then it'd be weird to treat him as otherwise.

 

[Shyy_Guy595]

I guess so.

I played the game at the time where Yoshi actually wasn't trash though, so I guess I jist remembered that and had it take priority

 

[CommanderZaktan]

Here's what I think of what stage won't be returning

Miiverse: Miiverse is dead
Flatzone 1 and 2: Flatzone X exists
Hanenbow: Worst stage ever
Sector Z: Corneria is an updated version of that and Great Fox will be big in 8 player Smash

 

[KMDP]

Heihachi would be much better than another SF character.

To be honest, I'd go for Nightmare.
I mean, we've got Ridley now as a vicious murderer. Why not go for a guy out to devour Souls?

 

[KingBroly]

Let's get this out of the way: not every stage is coming back.

The biggest reveal is that not every stage will be returning like every character will be.

"Not all past stages are going to be in the game but a whole lot of them will." (2) pic.twitter.com/dCM1WAMTkq

— Source Gaming (@AllSourceGaming) June 26, 2018

Yeah, Pyrosphere isn't coming back

 

[AlphaSSB]

In an alternate universe where we got Chesnaught instead of Greninja, literally none of that would matter for Sceptile. People would have been flocking to Swampert instead regardless of what "merits" it had.
Even mentioning Sceptile would have people questioning why when we already have Chesnaught to fill the role of the Grass Starter.

This is what I'm getting at.

Alright, you have my attention.

I can see your point. People definitely would fall into that category, although not everyone. After all, we have Charizard, and some people want Incineroar for various reasons. Yourself included.

What I'm trying to get at is that Sceptile does have qualities other than being a Grass starter to complete the trio. Being a Grass starter was what caused people to bandwagon with him, which is true, you and I agree there.

If you still want to refuse to accept the truth, that's on you.

And there you go again with the condescending remarks. Can't say I'm surprised.

The "truth" is that Sceptile did have a bandwagon with him being a Grass starter. I'm not denying that.

However, some also liked the idea of Sceptile for reasons other than just that. The ratio of bandwagon-ers to those who would genuinely like to see him, I couldn't tell you. And quite frankly, I wouldn't really care.

 

[Deleted member]

Also new text leak. These things are a dime a dozen really.

Spoiler: Leak

http://boards.4chan.org/v/thread/422057246
Items:
DK Animal Box - Rhino/Ostrich
Glowing Poison Skull - All characters slowly take 20% damage over ten seconds
Clove of Garlic - enemies temporarily stunned in small area by a purple odor
Flipper is back
Fan is back
Probably more than that

New pokeball pokemon:
Haunter - moves one character to a different spot and then licks him/her for 15% damage slight stun
Cofagrigus - traps someone in the sarcophagus for a few seconds, enemy takes 25% damage and is released

New characters:
Mach Rider - always on bike, has a gun
King K. Rool - heaviest character in the game
Geno - why?
Simon Belmont - Dracula's castle is his stage, Dracula is a stage hazard
Dark Samus (Echo) - pretty much samus
Funky Kong (Echo) - DK Clone, final smash has a tsunami
Metal Mario (Echo) - again, why? Metal box is an item so this was a questionable addition imo

Take it or leave it

Beleivable up until Mach Rider always being on the bike....but even then Sakurai might be able to pull something off there.
And then Metal Mario as an Echo completely kills it.

Echoes are supposed to have the same base stats as the original. Metal Mario would be more resistant to knockback (heavier) and have a faster fall speed at the very least, which goes against what an Echo does.

 

[Zinith]

Such a shame. Yoshi is objectively a better character than what came before but every single mechanic in Smash 4 worked against him...

 

[True Blue Warrior]

If there is another big third party rep... why wasn't show in the E3 with Ridley?
Is the perfect moment for something like that, just like megaman in smash 4.

In terms of generating maximum hype, revealing a huge third-party character at E3 made the most sense as it is the biggest event of the year. Instead, Ridley was treated as the Mega Man or Snake of Ultimate, as in the character used to really kick-start the hype train. So I don't expect third-parties like Sora and Steve in the base roster for this reason.

 

[TonyMyOnly]

Can we get Sector Z AND Corneria?

 

[Dracyoshi]

As long as they bring back Delfino Plaza and Fountain of Dreams then I'll be happy. Delfino Plaza is such a huge wave of nostalgia for me and I love the beautiful colorful platform. It'd be a shame if it were gone.

In terms of generating maximum hype, revealing a huge third-party character at E3 made the most sense as it is the biggest event of the year. Instead, Ridley was treated as the Mega Man or Snake of Ultimate, as in the character used to really kick-start the hype train. So I don't expect third-parties like Sora and Steve in the base roster for this reason.

I don't expect Steve at all. Just a Minecraft stage would make much more sense since Minecraft isn't known for Steve as much as it is for the interactive world, and it'd be difficult to turn Steve into a fighter anyway. Minecraft is meanwhile the perfect candidate for a destructible stage, and they could have Steve come in from the background to build and repair the stage.

 

[Zinith]

About those starters, I don't know much about Pokemon, but I know which starters I like the most:

Venasaur
Charizard
Blastoise
Meganium
Feralgatr
Sceptile
Torterra
Serperior

I think you can see a commonality...

 

[Blargg888]

Has anyone considered that Smash 5 was revealed in MARCH 2018 and is set to be released in DEC 7 2018? Since March we only had 2 unique characters revealed (Inklings and Ridley). There is only 5 months (give or take) left before the game is released. I will state it again; if there is no hidden characters in Smash Ultimate than we may very well have less than 8 newcomers this time around unless Sakurai is planning on revealing multiple characters EACH month. It's not surprising that people are only speculating around 7 new fighters considering the unusual short amount of time between unveil and release and with the fact the e3 direct and tree-house showed a crap ton of information in one setting.

I hope people are not counting Dr. Mario / Lucina/ Dark Pit as newcomers in Smash 4 to make the argument that he created a lot of unique characters. Subtract 3 from Smash 4 newcomers. Where are people getting 17 newcomers in Smash 4 at launch ????!?? Considering this subject is about time development then we need to eliminated the clones / costumes/ that would take us to 14 and looking on the Smash Website; I only see 12 characters (excluding Mii's) that was fresh and new in Smash 4. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Villager
Palutena
Mega-Man
Pac-Man
Little-Mac
Shulk
Robin
Duck Hunt
Bowser Jr
Rosalina and Luma
Greninja
Wii Fit Trainer

I am not including the Mii's since a ton of their moves are just taken from other fighters not to mention many people do not like the Mii's at all.

That's totally inaccurate though.

The Miis have many more moves original to them than they do moves taken from other fighters. And even the moves they do share with other fighters have been changed up so that they're not completely the same.

The idea the the Miis movesets are made up entirely of, or even mostly out of reused moves from other fighters is a grave misconception, and the fact that it's still believed to this day is ludicrous.

Also, leaving out Miis because "people don't like them" is just stupid. They're newcomers. The people's general opinion of them isn't going to change that.

So even if you exclude Lucina and DP, Smash 4 had 15 newcomers at launch. Not 12.

 

[Omega Tyrant]

This question has been asked before, I'm sure, but I just wanna know the thoughts of everyone here presently.

Gun to your head, which newcomers would you be willing to bet money on their being in Ultimate? Not necessarily who you want, but who you think is the most likely to actually make it out of all the popular options.

A bit late on this, but the only newcomers I'm fully confident about are either K. Rool or Dixie making it in (possibly both, but at least one of them will make it in this time, even if it's just Dixie as an Echo), and Elma. I see some other characters as likely and some bunch of them are going to be in (such as Ashley and Belmont), but can see reasoning for any individual one being left behind.

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

I made a video about why I think Mach Rider is likely in smash if anyone cares to watch it:

I just got around to watching it and I really liked your points!

I'm still not convinced it's for a character even, I mentioned earlier how un-Sakurai it is to talk about a newcomer before they are revealed and it just feels weird that he would give these little hints. He could have just said toy, I mean he even gave the specific model....it's so weird.

BUT I loved your explanation of why it doesn't fit for Elma. I personally do think the gun looks like her skell's gun, but like you said, knowing it would probably be just for her final smash and that final smashes are now more cut scene based it doesn't make sense Sakurai would need the model for it.

Also strangely the model even bears resemblence to Mach Rider...is that just me lol? Really great job though, you may not have 100% convinced me but you're point about the final smash isn't one I've heard yet and I think it's an important one.

 

[KMDP]

About those starters, I don't know much about Pokemon, but I know which starters I like the most:

Venasaur
Charizard
Blastoise
Meganium
Feralgatr
Sceptile
Torterra
Serperior

I think you can see a commonality...

Speaking of Pokémon and Zinith...

Hey Zinith , did you you know Yoshi was part of a gaming magazine's (I think Nintendo Power) April Fools joke? They said you could unlock Yoshi as a Pokémon, even made a fake Pokédex entry screenshot for him and everything.

EDIT: Found it.

 

[Dracyoshi]

A bit late on this, but the only newcomers I'm fully confident about are either K. Rool or Dixie making it in (possibly both, but at least one of them will make it in this time, even if it's just Dixie as an Echo), and Elma. I see some other characters as likely and some bunch of them are going to be in (such as Ashley and Belmont), but can see reasoning for any individual one being left behind.

Dixie Kong is in this weird spot where she's too unique to be an echo fighter of Diddy but too similar to be worth developing as a full character. She might happen because of how popular she is, but I expect them to just add K. Rool instead. It's possible she'll be a semi-clone like Dr. Mario, but I don't see them adding another semi-clone for Ultimate when they seem to want to push them aside for echo fighters.

 

[Ashuree]

Yeah, Pyrosphere isn't coming back

When Ridley is in the battle, Alfonzo is in charge of the stage hazard.

Alfonzo: leave it to me!

 

[Zeox]

Let's get this out of the way: not every stage is coming back.

The biggest reveal is that not every stage will be returning like every character will be.

"Not all past stages are going to be in the game but a whole lot of them will." (2) pic.twitter.com/dCM1WAMTkq

— Source Gaming (@AllSourceGaming) June 26, 2018

Then I wonder what was the decision for some stages to return but some others not.
Like, why the return of Fourside but not the return of Fountain of dreams (if is not, of course, that's still not confirmed)?

 

[MrSmashFour]

Let's get this out of the way: not every stage is coming back.

The biggest reveal is that not every stage will be returning like every character will be.

"Not all past stages are going to be in the game but a whole lot of them will." (2) pic.twitter.com/dCM1WAMTkq

— Source Gaming (@AllSourceGaming) June 26, 2018

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO



It's not the Ultimate Smash then.

They better be in DLC

 

[Zinith]

When Ridley is in the battle, Alfonzo is in charge of the stage hazard.

Alfonzo: leave it to me

Alfonzo gets **** done!!!

 

[MopedOfJustice]

Beleivable up until Mach Rider always being on the bike....but even then Sakurai might be able to pull something off there.
And then Metal Mario as an Echo completely kills it.

Echoes are supposed to have the same base stats as the original. Metal Mario would be more resistant to knockback (heavier) and have a faster fall speed at the very least, which goes against what an Echo does.

IIRC, Sakurai said in a column or something a long time ago that he was considering a full motorcyclist character but only didn't do it because he couldn't see how they'd jump in a way that visually made sense.

 

[Deleted member]

I'm really starting to hate the Alfonzo meme.
It was funny at first but now its just getting annoying.

 

[Noipoi]

I can't pick a favorite starter, probably Charizard. I know he's everyone's favorite but I liked him before i knew it was cool to like him.
Besides he's a dragon, you can't not like dragons!

 

[KMDP]

Dixie Kong is in this weird spot where she's too unique to be an echo fighter of Diddy but too similar to be worth developing as a full character. She might happen because of how popular she is, but I expect them to just add K. Rool instead. It's possible she'll be a semi-clone like Dr. Mario, but I don't see them adding another semi-clone for Ultimate when they seem to want to push them aside for echo fighters.

*sigh* If only they had made the Tag Team Diddy/Dixie combo in Brawl like they (supposedly) planned to, then split them in Smash 4...

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

Let's get this out of the way: not every stage is coming back.

The biggest reveal is that not every stage will be returning like every character will be.

"Not all past stages are going to be in the game but a whole lot of them will." (2) pic.twitter.com/dCM1WAMTkq

— Source Gaming (@AllSourceGaming) June 26, 2018

If I had the time and energy I'd make one of those one fear comics, with the fear being no Poke Floats

Honestly though this statement makes sense. Between Pyrosphere, Miiverse, the Flatzone dilemna, and the fact the certain stages are just remakes, made it hard to believe every stage would be coming back.

 

[KingBroly]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

It's not the Ultimate Smash then.

They better be in DLC

Fountain of Dreams Stage DLC - $4.99

I think we're at 84 stages now. So with each getting Final Destination and Battlefield forms, that's 252 stages! I wonder what Big Battlefield's Battlefield Form will look like.

 

[Zinith]

Let's get this out of the way: not every stage is coming back.

The biggest reveal is that not every stage will be returning like every character will be.

"Not all past stages are going to be in the game but a whole lot of them will." (2) pic.twitter.com/dCM1WAMTkq

— Source Gaming (@AllSourceGaming) June 26, 2018

Yoshi's Woolly World's chances aren't looking too good...

 

[Ashuree]

I'm really starting to hate the Alfonzo meme.
It was funny at first but now its just getting annoying.

When you're feeling like a contrarian, Alfonzo is in charge of your sense of humor.

Alfonzo: Leave it to me!

 

[Deleted member]

Fountain of Dreams Stage DLC - $4.99

Smash Bros: Nightmare in Dream Land

 

[Murlough]

I'm not confident in any newcomer at this point.

I've seen so many mixed messages about Ashley. I think either K. Rool or Dixie is a fair bet but I don't think we 100% will get one of the two.

I'm somewhat confident in Elma but that might be solely because of the boards...

Pokemon is a mess right now. I'm at least confident we will get someone from Gen 7, the only one of which I directly have a problem with is Zereora....and Decidueye to a very small extent.

I would like another Zelda character but I haven't played enough Botw to really be invested in someone specific.

I'm confident we'll either get Celica or nothing for Fire Emblem.

 

[Icedragonadam]

Obvious Stage cuts for me:

Miiverse: No duh
Flatzone 1: Flatzone X is already a combo of this and 2
Flatzone 2: See Flatzone 1.

 

[Wyoming]

Sakurai just give me Fountain of Dreams, Poke Floats, and Sector Z and we cool.

 

[RandomAce]

Here's what I think of what stage won't be returning

Miiverse: Miiverse is dead
Flatzone 1 and 2: Flatzone X exists
Hanenbow: Worst stage ever
Sector Z: Corneria is an updated version of that and Great Fox will be big in 8 player Smash

What the hell is Flatzone X. And why don’t I know about it.

Let's get this out of the way: not every stage is coming back.

The biggest reveal is that not every stage will be returning like every character will be.

"Not all past stages are going to be in the game but a whole lot of them will." (2) pic.twitter.com/dCM1WAMTkq

— Source Gaming (@AllSourceGaming) June 26, 2018

RIP Pokefloats and Fountain of Dreams.

 

[Deleted member]

the only one of which I directly have a problem with is Zereora

Then you should be glad to hear that Zeraora is most likely out of the running due to the timing of the project plan.