Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Noipoi]

All the SPM appreciation in here makes me incredibly happy.
Nice to see other people that appreciate that game.

I hope we get some SPM music in Ultimate.
I doubt it, but it'd be nice.

All I need is The Ultimate Show. THAT'S ALL I NEED.

 

[Pakky]

Absolutely awful

Boring

Best designed Grass starter

Marvelous

 

[Deleted member]

I feel like the grass starter will be themed after a magical class, seeing as it's the only starter type that hasn't covered those types of classes yet.

....a tanuki Grass starter? :O

 

[Pokechu]

The most relevant response:

now that someone else posted i can post my controversial opinion (even though I already did :laugh)

delphox could be the trash design most people think it is and STILL be the best fire starter by a margin just because it's fire/psychic. im dead serious. that's such a cool typing. and even without the fire/psychic it'd still be the best by default as the mage theme/design is way cooler than what they slapped on for the other starters :^(

Are you kidding? Delphox is the second worst one! (second only to Emboar)

emboar is the second best and imo like delphox it isn't even close

idk what gamefreak had in mind for the fire starters gen 1-4 and 7 but they hired the right people for Emboar and Delphox, even if Emboar is Fire/Fighting. Would've been cool if he was Fire/Dark though.

 

[Deleted member]

Absolutely awful

Them's fightin words!

....a tanuki Grass starter? :O

I guess.

 

[Pakky]

Them's fightin words!

He is the one pokemon starter that actually upsets me.

He makes no sense, I'm sorry

 

[Ze Diglett]

delphox could be the trash design most people think it is and STILL be the best fire starter by a margin just because it's fire/psychic. im dead serious. that's such a cool typing. and even without the fire/psychic it'd still be the best by default as the mage theme/design is way cooler than what they slapped on for the other starters :^(

Even if no one else in this thread agrees, I'm with you all the way on this. I was Team Fennekin from the start, and the way I see it, Fire/Psychic and the mage design will always make Delphox better than either of the other starters from Gen 6 (although I do still like Greninja a lot due to Smash).
Although I am a bit salty that they intentionally gave Chespin and Froakie "cooler" evos than Fennekin... why is it that the most popular starter from the outset always gets saddled with the least cool evolutions?

 

[Deleted member]

He is the one pokemon starter that actually upsets me.

He makes no sense, I'm sorry.

I guess that's true, but I personally think it's badass.
Those water swords look cool as ****.

He's my second favorite water starter.

 

[KMDP]

View attachment 150237

Absolutely awful

View attachment 150238

Boring

View attachment 150239

Best designed Grass starter

Marvelous

I'm sorry, but Meganium is clearly the best Grass Starter.

Muurrrr-stake!

Okay, but in all seriousness, I like all the Grass Starters (Venusaur has a special place in my heart, for being the first).

 

[MBRedboy31]

Random thing I just thought of that may be a good idea or a terribly unfitting idea, Delphox as a Robin echo / semi clone? :ultrobin There’s the issue that Delphox is supposedly digitigrade, but it can be ignored, given the robe it’s wearing, that means you can’t see its legs anyway.

In terms of Fire starters, I think Delphox is fine, it’s the one I picked in X/Y, no regrets.
I have to give some attention to Quilava, though. For one thing, it has two flame jets rather than one, plus they’re aimed backwards, which lets you think of them as being rocket engines (who wants to drive a rocket car with the engines aimed forwards, which is what Typholsion does?)

 

[Noipoi]

now that someone else posted i can post my controversial opinion (even though I already did :laugh)

delphox could be the trash design most people think it is and STILL be the best fire starter by a margin just because it's fire/psychic. im dead serious. that's such a cool typing. and even without the fire/psychic it'd still be the best by default as the mage theme/design is way cooler than what they slapped on for the other starters :^(

emboar is the second best and imo like delphox it isn't even close

idk what gamefreak had in mind for the fire starters gen 1-4 and 7 but they hired the right people for Emboar and Delphox, even if Emboar is Fire/Fighting. Would've been cool if he was Fire/Dark though.

EMBOAR? SECOND BEST!?

 

[Pokechu]

I'm sorry, but Meganium is clearly the best Grass Starter.

Muurrrr-stake!

Okay, but in all seriousness, I like all the Grass Starters (Venusaur has a special place in my heart, for being the first).

you're not wrong though

meganium is the best

 

[osby]

Even if no one else in this thread agrees, I'm with you all the way on this. I was Team Fennekin from the start, and the way I see it, Fire/Psychic and the mage design will always make Delphox better than either of the other starters from Gen 6 (although I do still like Greninja a lot due to Smash).
Although I am a bit salty that they intentionally gave Chespin and Froakie "cooler" evos than Fennekin... why is it that the most popular starter from the outset always gets saddled with the least cool evolutions?

I liked Braixen. Delphox... well, at least has the coolest name.

EDIT: My favourite fully evolved fire starter is Blaziken, even though I like its previous forms more.

 

[KMDP]

you're not wrong though

meganium is the best

Stake, stake, Mur-stake!

So happy, so damn unkillable, so loveable.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Still a little odd that the stars aligned to make Ivysaur the Grass type rep in Smash Bros. Not complaining, just odd is all.

I wonder if the ballot will help Sceptile any. Remember the hype around that one in the lead-up to DLC?

 

[MopedOfJustice]

I guess that's true, but I personally think it's badass.
Those water swords look cool as ****.

He's my second favorite water starter.

I do think he doesn't deserve the flak, but also without animation he's literally the worst-reading Pokemon ever produced. His description talks about him using swords but then he really looks like he's just a biped.

 

[Pakky]

I guess that's true, but I personally think it's badass.
Those water swords look cool as ****.

He's my second favorite water starter.

Indeed they are I just wish he stood up more.

Also how are you a Pokemon based on a swordsman and yet you're not a fighting type?

Emboar being one makes no sense the Pig in journey to the West didn't even fight did he?

 

[Blargg888]

Stake, stake, Mur-stake!

So happy, so damn unkillable, so loveable.

I wish my Chikorita was as useful as Mr. Stake.

Also, Samurott is a really cool starter. I do like Serperior more though.

 

[osby]

Still a little odd that the stars aligned to make Ivysaur the Grass type rep in Smash Bros. Not complaining, just odd is all.

I wonder if the ballot will help Sceptile any. Remember the hype around that one in the lead-up to DLC?

Weirdly enough, from the 9 starters in Kanto, my fave was always Ivysaur, lucky me.

I don't think Sceptile has much chance from all those other Pokémon.

EDIT: Chikorita is still best starter, change my mind.
Hoenn ones are close seconds.

 

[Pokechu]

maaaaan idk why they decided to put yellow balls all the way down sceptile's back

how does he even sleep? on his side? criminal.

they look like pingballs that you could just pick off. i get that they're supposed to be seeds or whatever.... but idk

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Water starters final evolutions usually have the best designs. Blastoise, Fearligatr, Swampert, Empolean, Samurott, Greninja all look badass, and Primarina despite being the weakest still looks nice.

Fire starters are the next best. Charizard, Typhlosion, Blaziken, Incenaroar are all great but then you got the boring ones like Infernape, Emboar, and Delphox.

Grass starters are the weakest. Venasaur, Meganium, and Tortera all are similar in a lot of ways, Serperior and Chesnaught are fine but are not very well designed, with Sceptile and Decidueye being the two badass outliers.

That's my take anyways. I want Decidueye in because he's the first well designed, pseudo-popular grass starter we've gotten in a really long time. That's just my two cents though. Oh and, uh, whoever bad mouths Samurott is objectively wrong. No matter what. He's the best of that Gen easily.

 

[Deleted member]

I do think he doesn't deserve the flak, but also without animation he's literally the worst-reading Pokemon ever produced. His description talks about him using swords but then he really looks like he's just a biped.

Quadruped.
Biped means two legs.
Samurott typically looks like it stands on four.

I wonder if the ballot will help Sceptile any. Remember the hype around that one in the lead-up to DLC?

You mean the hype it literally ONLY got because it would be a Grass Starter to coincide with Charizard and Greninja?

When Blaziken has ALWAYS been the more prominent and popular of the Hoenn trio otherwise?

 

[Pokechu]

Primarina despite being the weakest still looks nice.

NonSpecificGuy.... I didn't think moderators were supposed to lie to the members

Primarina is easily the best H2O starter and no one can tell me otherwise!!!

Fire starters are the next best. Charizard, Typhlosion, Blaziken, Incenaroar are all great but then you got the boring ones like Infernape, Emboar, and Delphox.

but delphox and emboar are the two best ones.... ???? Okay, I'm gonna have to report your post for trolling.... /s

Grass starters are the weakest. Venasaur, Meganium, and Tortera all are similar in a lot of ways

but my girl Meganium doesn't have a whole tree on her back :^(

Sceptile and Decidueye being the two badass outliers.

but my girl meganium??? where she at???? girl could whoop someone *** anyday

Oh and, uh, whoever bad mouths Samurott is objectively wrong. No matter what. He's the best of that Gen easily.

i thought we settled this??? emboar is the best gen 5 starter BY FAR :^(

December 7th? We're gonna settle this in Smash.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Quadruped.
Biped means two legs.
Samurott typically looks like it stands on four.


You mean the hype it literally ONLY got because it would be a Grass Starter to coincide with Charizard and Greninja?

When Blaziken has ALWAYS been the more prominent and popular of the Hoenn trio otherwise?

Blaziken was always more popular while Sceptile was a "pattern" character.

In the Brawl Hype days I had Blaziken in my mind as a Captain Falcon Clone like

B: Fire Punch
B-Side: Ariel Ace
B-Up: Sky Uppercut
B-Down: Blaze Kick

And with Echos, it could happen this time, you never know.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

December 7th? We're gonna settle this in Smash.

And he's gonna kick your ass :V

 

[MasterOfKnees]

I've always been a Grass-type guy myself, although the Water starters run them close. Fire for me is easily the weakest, I love Charizard and Typhlosion, but from there on it's just downhill. I guess I just don't really dig the more anthromorphic Pokémon, which would also explain why I love a lot of the Grass starters, can't get enough of my quadrupeds.

Also, even though I liked Gen 5 on the whole its starters were just tragic, B2W2 was the only game where I straight up ditched my starter on first playthrough.

 

[Pokechu]

And he's gonna kick your *** :V

okay no one believes me but i'm a god with squirtle and ivysaur, okay?

im a little rusty considering how it's been a good decade

but once I get my babies back? it's over for y'all :V

 

[Deleted member]

Blaziken is much more kick-based in it's fighting style than Falcon.
That's not to say Falcon doesn't use kicks, just that he doesn't use enough for Blaziken to make sense as an Echo/clone.

There's a reason it's the "Kickin' Chicken".

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Am I one of the few people who feels that Echo Fighters shouldn't go too overboard? I could see at least one more, but that's pretty much it outside of DLC.

 

[Originality]

In my opinion, Torterra, Feraligatr, and Blaziken are the best starters.

 

[Pokechu]

Blaziken is much more kick-based in it's fighting style than Falcon.
That's not to say Falcon doesn't use kicks, just that he doesn't use enough for Blaziken to make sense as an Echo/clone.

There's a reason it's the "Kickin' Chicken".

ehhhh

To be fair, Daisy was never depicted having a float similar to Peach, and I definitely wouldn't imagine that girl creating rainbows. Or doing highkicks. Or using Toads to fight, judging as how she's not their princess.

I think a Blaziken Echo of Falcon makes sense. but idk

 

[Deleted member]

ehhhh

To be fair, Daisy was never depicted having a float similar to Peach, and I definitely wouldn't imagine that girl creating rainbows. Or doing highkicks. Or using Toads to fight, judging as how she's not their princess.

I think a Blaziken Echo of Falcon makes sense. but idk

Echos need to have the same jump height.

Blaziken is known for really high jumps due to its powerful legs.
That alone makes an Echo of Falcon a bad fit.

 

[AlphaSSB]

If Incineroar weren't the heel wrestler it is, and just a typical/boring "fire tiger" like a majority of you wanted/expected it to be, I wouldn't have really cared much about it.

And it wouldn't have been such a perfect fit for Smash like it is as a heel wrestler.

To me, a Pokemon doesn't have to have a special quirk to them to make them interesting. Incineroar is cool, I'll agree with you there, but I don't care for the whole "heel wrestler" design. "Typical/boring" is subjective.

You mean the hype it literally ONLY got because it would be a Grass Starter to coincide with Charizard and Greninja?

When Blaziken has ALWAYS been the more prominent and popular of the Hoenn trio otherwise?

Sceptile had its merits other than being a Grass starter to match Greninja and Charizard.

Your case for Blaziken vs Sceptile feels subjective. They were both prominent in the Anime, both received Mega Evolutions, both were featured in Pokken, and both have nearly the same amount of TCG cards. Only thing going for Blaziken there is that it got its Mega Evolution first.

In terms of popularity, Blaziken placed a bit higher than Sceptile in the Japanese Pokemon poll, but that's about it.

 

[Pokechu]

shoot, Daisy uses Blue Toad... but did they even coexist in a game???

The only Toads Daisy should know are the normal Toad, Toadette, and Toadsworth

 

[Arcadenik]

Still a little odd that the stars aligned to make Ivysaur the Grass type rep in Smash Bros. Not complaining, just odd is all.

I wonder if the ballot will help Sceptile any. Remember the hype around that one in the lead-up to DLC?

I think it's not so odd. Ivysaur was just extremely lucky.

Sakurai wanted Pokémon Trainer in Smash. He wanted all three starters and all three evolution stages.

When choosing the final evolutions of the 1st gen starters:
Charizard > Blastoise > Venusaur in terms of popularity

When choosing the basic forms of the remaining 1st gen starters:
Squirtle > Bulbasaur in terms of popularity

Who is left for the middle forms of the 1st gen starters? Ivysaur

I remember the hype around Sceptile during the Ballot. I preferred Blaziken as the 3rd gen starter but I didn't vote for him.

 

[Murlough]

i still can't believe litten became bipedal

idk, this is off topic, but i had such high hopes for it to be our first quadruped fire starter

but EVERY one of them is bipedal. at least typhlosion is both but still.... when i first saw Litten I thought it'd save us from the bipedal curse :^(

like, grass starters? venusaur, meganium, and torterra are quadruped... and serperior has no limbs lol
water has samurott and primarina. but fire? n o t h i n g :^((((((

I was pissed at the time too but I've grown to love Incineroar anyway.

If he had stayed on all fours we would have never received the glory that is his Darkest Lariat animation (Wailord does it better though....look it up.)

 

[KMDP]

I wish my Chikorita was as useful as Mr. Stake.

For those not in the know, Mr. Stake was the Chikorita TeamFourStar had for their SoulSilver Nuzlocke, who they had to pick because of the ID number > Starter pick rule. He proved to be incredibly useful and almost ludicrously Sturdy. They put him in all sorts of danger, and he survived every time. Notable moments include weathering a Blaze Kick from a Hitmonlee, and surviving against Pryce's Dewgong with 1 HP, snapping out of confusion, then killing it with Frenzy Plant.
He eventually wormed his way into their hearts, and now Chikorita is pretty much their Nuzlocke mascot.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Doesn’t the whole Grass Starter thing fall through now that charizard isn’t his own character anymore? What’s the point of having a grass starter if you already have a single character that represents all three just fine? I think we should look at both Decidueye and Incenaroar on their own merits now instead of the whole Grass Starter argument coming into play. Because if that was still a thing Ivysaur would take that place...

 

[Pokechu]

Echos need to have the same jump height.

Blaziken is known for really high jumps due to its powerful legs.
That alone makes an Echo of Falcon a bad fit.

Echoes need to borrow the same moveset.

Daisy is known for being sportier and more aggressive than Peach; a contrast to Peach's elegant way of fighting, e.g. no high kicks and hitting with her crown. And especially not hiding behind Toads. That alone should make Daisy a poor Echo, but here we are now.

A moveset made for one character will never fit another perfectly. But Falcon's moveset fits Blaziken pretty darn well imo outside of a few quirks here and there; just like Peach's moveset fitting Daisy.

 

[Deleted member]

My (hot) take:

Kanto: Venusaur is the best. Blastoise and Charizard are nice but I don't care for them as much.

Johto: Meganium and Feraligatr are both trash. Typhlosion looks cool, but his special moveset sucks so he's mediocre.

Hoenn: They're all great, with Swampert being the best one.

Sinnoh: Infernape is great. Empoleon and Torterra look cool but otherwise I'm not sure what to make of them.

Unova: Samurott is easily the best. I have mixed feelings on Emboar but Serperior is trash.

Kalos: Greninja is the best starter overall. Chesnaught is in the same boat as Emboar as I don't really care for it but don't hate it, while Delphox is awful.

Alola: My favorite should go without saying (though the fact it's my second favorite rather than the first might be a surprise to some), but I do actually like the other two.