Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Fatmanonice]

You can use Geno as a counterargument when he actually gets in Smash. Until then, I say obscure characters who haven't appeared in recent years are at a huge disadvantage.

I was thinking about this earlier and the NES and SNES Classic are regularly left out of speculation conversations. Honestly, if they're added to the conversation, it really helps out Simon Belmont because the NES classic had Castlevania 1 and 2 and the SNES Classic had Super Castlevania. It's an interesting talking point for Geno too given how Super RPG was released for the SNES Classic as well as both the Wii and Wii U virtual consoles. I mean... K.Rool could be shoe horned into conversations this way too I suppose since the DKC trilogy has never totally fallen into obscurity.

 

[Opossum]

I dislike Brawl now. The game has a depressing feel to it and the soundtrack didn't age well for me personally.

Conversely I think the soundtrack is what aged the best. Brawl's soundtrack was far more consistently good than Smash 4's IMO, but Ultimate might top it. Loving what we've heard of the new remixes of Destiny (Ablaze) and Bonus Room Blitz.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I'm still perplexed why they'd remove Diddy's tail whipping moves unless they had Dixie in mind.

Diddy's tail is a large part of his model and design space, so NOT using it to use moves seems very bizarre.

I may be reaching, but it honestly feels like Dixie is almost guaranteed because they felt the need to remove his tail whipping move, and Dixie being a clone/semi-clone is the only logical reasoning here.


That'd be like if Bowser didn't use his shell, or if Ridley didn't use HIS tail.

They're both large parts of the character's model, and a large part of character design space, so not using them is odd.

Eh that comparison doesn't work entirely as Ridley's always used his tail to **** **** up. In fact, a nitpick some Ridley fans seem to have is lack of a Dair that uses his tail like a pogo stick or to strike downwards. Though we aren't complaining about it because we actually ****ing got him

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

Since Pokemon and Mario currently have 9 and 8 characters respectively, I'd be perfectly fine with Zelda getting two newcomers this time. Not sure what combination that would end up being, but if one of those characters is a Champion, I'd be content with just about anyone else.

I'd honestly be fine with Impa, Tetra, Skull Kid, a Champion, I just want someone

I'm still perplexed why they'd remove Diddy's tail whipping moves unless they had Dixie in mind.

Diddy's tail is a large part of his model and design space, so NOT using it to use moves seems very bizarre.

I may be reaching, but it honestly feels like Dixie is almost guaranteed because they felt the need to remove his tail whipping move, and Dixie being a clone/semi-clone is the only logical reasoning here.


That'd be like if Bowser didn't use his shell, or if Ridley didn't use HIS tail.

They're both large parts of the character's model, and a large part of character design space, so not using them is odd.

Or it doesn't mean anything, sometimes characters change for no reason, there was no reason to remove wario's shoulder bash yet it was dropped in smash 4, maybe they just didn't like the move and thought diddy would be better without it.

Diddy only used 2 tail attacks in the first place, it's not like Bowser who uses his shell a lot, they clearly don't think it's super integral to have moves using it

 

[RiotLupine]

I think Leon would be ideal. Considering:
He technically originated on the N64.
Resident Evil 4, the next game he appeared in, first released on the Gamecube, and was a critical and commercial success.
Although it hasn't been mentioned on a Nintendo system as of yet, Resident Evil 2 is getting remade, Thus he would be good for advertising it.

That's my two cents at least. Heck to be honest I wouldn't mind seeing any of the Resident Evil characters appear, I love me some Resi. 4 and REmake are my main favourites.

 

[Shroob]

Eh that comparison doesn't work entirely as Ridley's always used his tail to **** **** up. In fact, a nitpick some Ridley fans seem to have is lack of a Dair that uses his tail like a pogo stick or to strike downwards. Though we aren't complaining about it because we actually ****ing got him

The argument is about character design space.

Look at Mewtwo for example.

Mewtwo should never really use his tail for combat, but because of just how 'big' it is, he has a lot of attacks involving whipping his tail around.


Which is exactly what perplexes me about Diddy.

He's got a long tail that he's been using for quite awhile, and then they remove it, why?


Diddy's tail is probably the one thing that sets him apart from the rest of the Kongs, but it's suspiciously absent now.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Ike was in the game, your argument is invalid.

Ike goes beyond hunk though, so my argument is still valid

I am confused. Not because I'm not into anthropomorphic characters but because the guy is skinny as ****

Skinny people can be hunks to...just not the typical non-anime looking type

 

[Shyy_Guy595]

Obscure charactets either get ATs or they make the roster if the moveset is there for Sakurai.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

The argument is about character design space.

Look at Mewtwo for example.

Mewtwo should never really use his tail for combat, but because of just how 'big' it is, he has a lot of attacks involving whipping his tail around.


Which is exactly what perplexes me about Diddy.

He's got a long tail that he's been using for quite awhile, and then they remove it, why?


Diddy's tail is probably the one thing that sets him apart from the rest of the Kongs, but it's suspiciously absent now.

Diddy only used it in 2 attacks in the first place though unlike mewtwo who's moveset is largely made up of it.

 

[Omega Tyrant]

Or it doesn't mean anything, sometimes characters change for no reason, there was no reason to remove wario's shoulder bash yet it was dropped in smash 4, maybe they just didn't like the move and thought diddy would be better without it.

Diddy only used 2 tail attacks in the first place, it's not like Bowser who uses his shell a lot

There was a reason for removing Wario's shoulder bash (as poor as the reason was), as Sakurai felt a f-smash with more reach to it would be better for Wario. Diddy's tail jab could have been removed just because, but it being removed does open up the possibility of Dixie being an Echo, when before it would have not been possible as her lack of a tail would have made it impossible for her to replicate Diddy's two tail moves,

 

[Enchess]

Anyone else kinda sad we're debating including RE for horror representation instead of one of the two horror IP Nintendo already owns (or co-owns in case of Fatal Frame)...?

 

[Cutie Gwen]

The argument is about character design space.

Look at Mewtwo for example.

Mewtwo should never really use his tail for combat, but because of just how 'big' it is, he has a lot of attacks involving whipping his tail around.


Which is exactly what perplexes me about Diddy.

He's got a long tail that he's been using for quite awhile, and then they remove it, why?


Diddy's tail is probably the one thing that sets him apart from the rest of the Kongs, but it's suspiciously absent now.

No I get that it's because of the design and being easy to make up a move for, but what I mean is that Ridley actually uses his tail a LOT so no tail attacks would be very weird, much more than Diddy had he not have the rapid jab in Brawl as he doesn't use it in his games iirc

 

[Cosmic77]

The belief that a franchise's sales or size should correlate to its number of unique playable characters is really shallow, and I'm thankful it doesn't dictate how the roster is decided. Zelda's representation hits as many of the big titles and key characters in the franchise as possible. Adding anyone else would be super generous, but I can't humor the idea that Zelda is somehow getting the short end of the stick. That's just severely downplaying the developer's clear effort to fairly represent the series.

Why do people act like it's a shameful sin to want more characters for Zelda? Seriously, no one bats an eye when Mario or Pokémon newcomers get brought up, but Zelda? Completely ungrateful to want more.

Look, despite the love the Zelda series has gotten through items and stages, the series deserves better than three unique characters and three semi-clones, two of which are literally the same character. If the series was barren in terms of possible characters, you might have a point, but there are plenty of unique options who would blend in perfectly with Smash.

 

[Shyy_Guy595]

"Deserves" doesn't mean "likely" or "will".

 

[True Blue Warrior]

You can use Geno as a counterargument when he actually gets in Smash. Until then, I say obscure characters who haven't appeared in recent years are at a huge disadvantage.

This isn't a valid counter against my point. You're just splitting hairs by essentially going "Character Y doesn't contradict my assumption about Character X because *insert arbitrary differences/factors that doesn't actually matter to the argument being made*

Seriously, it's poor arguments like these that continuously makes speculators look silly in hindsight.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Anyone else kinda sad we're debating including RE for horror representation instead of one of the two horror IP Nintendo already owns (or co-owns in case of Fatal Frame)...?

Broke: Wanting horror IPs in Smash
Woke: Forgetting Nintendo's own Horror IPs
Broke: Ridley's trailer and the Alien franchise's influence on Metroid means we already have enough Horror IPs in Smash

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

Why do people act like it's a shameful sin to want more characters for Zelda? Seriously, no one bats an eye when Mario or Pokémon newcomers get brought up, but Zelda? Completely ungrateful to want more.

Look, despite the love the Zelda series has gotten through items and stages, the series deserves better than three unique characters and three semi-clones, two of which are literally the same character. If the series was barren in terms of possible characters, you might have a point, but there are plenty of unique options who would blend in perfectly with Smash.

Fr, Zelda sells a lot, as such Zelda has a lot of fans, those fans want to see characters from said series to be playable. I really fail to see how that's asking a whole lot lmao.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Dixie doesn't have rocket barrels and her hair is such a key part of her character from her attacks to even her jumps that I have a hard time seeing Dixie as a true echo. Based on these properties, I could see her as Luigi-Mario/Lucas-Ness clone at most if they absolutely had to make her a not totally original character.

 

[Shyy_Guy595]

Yeah. His point was that "obscure" characters deemed as having niche fanbases were directly acknowledged by Sakurai as popularly requested, which makes the argument null when, by definition, something highly popular cannot be niche and wouldn't be catered to in the slightest.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Question: Would Leon and Jill play very similarly? I kinda have a general thought in my head that they would play the same, having a gun and some realistic physical skills like kicking. But I do not play enough Resident Evil to make a sure thought.

 

[Chandeelure]

Having Kirby and a realistic HD Resident Evil zombie in the same game would be funny.

Now I want this.

 

[Poopyhead]

I've never finished a Zelda game and I don't know much about the series but out of all the represented series, I feel like Zelda is the only one that needs a new unique character, personally.

And on the idea of fighters that appeal to the west and to casuals, I thought about the idea of having a Just Dance character. Their animations could be done frame by frame based on real dancers, moveset would be based on different dance moves similar to Wii Fit Trainer's yoga poses. Somehow maybe they could work some mainstream music into a Just Dance stage as well.

I know it won't happen because it would be a real pain to implement thanks to all the copyright stuff they'd have to go through, but I thought it was a kinda cool idea. I've always wanted some character with dancerly moves. Though Azura or someone from a rhythm game would be my first pick to fill that role.

 

[Shroob]

Dixie doesn't have rocket barrels and her hair is such a key part of her character from her attacks to even her jumps that I have a hard time seeing Dixie as a true echo. Based on these properties, I could see her as Luigi-Mario/Lucas-Ness clone at most if they absolutely had to make her a not totally original character.

Crazy thought, but what if she had Diddy's A moves, but DK's Bs?


Up and down B are both things she already shares with DK in Tropical Freeze.

 

[ThatGuyWhoKnowsNothing]

so... am I the only one terrified of Ridley going into smash 5? he has a move that infinitely throws you off the stage, and a sturdy looking dair to boot...
this is going to make cloud completely irrelevant and drive everyone else who enjoys living insane

 

[RiotLupine]

View attachment 149822


Now I want this.

POP STAR...
WRAAAAHHGG!!

 

[Shyy_Guy595]

Sakurai will give the Zelda fanbase exactly what they want and have Beedle as a fully unique fighter, to everyone's surprise.

Just think about it.

 

[Crap-Zapper]

View attachment 149822


Now I want this.

Little Kirby devour that giant.
His Copy ability better be using that bazooka.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

View attachment 149822


Now I want this.

Nemesis: STAAAAAAARS
Kirby: omg it me Kirby of the Stars!

 

[Cosmic77]

This isn't a valid counter against my point. You're just splitting hairs by essentially going "Character Y doesn't contradict my assumption about Character X because *insert arbitrary differences/factors that doesn't actually matter to the argument being made*

Seriously it's poor arguments like these that continuously makes speculators look silly in hindsight.

Sakurai can acknowledge Geno as being a popular request all he wants, but until he actually does something with the character aside from just putting him in as a costume, what he says doesn't mean much. Actions speak louder than words.

My point is, you can't use Geno as a example for why K. Rool's obscurity isn't an issue when Geno himself hasn't even gotten in Smash yet. A simple quote from Sakurai isn't enough. If Geno had actually gotten in Smash 4 despite being incredibly obscure, then this would be a totally different case.

 

[RiotLupine]

Also if Leon were to appear we would see Kirby with that stupid fringe of his hahaha

No offence to Leon fans - he's my fave Resi character too.

 

[Enchess]

I love Zelda and have gone through all of them other than Tri-Force Heroes and the Tingle spinoffs, but I really think it has enough representation. I won't complain if it gets more, but I'd rather DK, Mother, Kirby, Xenoblade, WarioWare, Animal Crossing, or even F-Zero get an additional rep instead of Zelda. The next biggest character in Zelda is Impa or Tingle. That's like if people thought Donkey Kong needed Dixie, K Rool, and Cranky before any other represented franchise deserved more.

 

[Yoshisaurus Rex]

Who else thinks that Kirby would look adorable with Jill Valentine's beret from the first RE?

 

[Crap-Zapper]

If we did get Leon, would Ashley be an annoying Assist Trophy?

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Who else thinks that Kirby would look adorable with Jill Valentine's beret from the first RE?

Kirby already looks adorable doing anything

 

[Deleted member]

I'd rather have another Fire Emblem character than "unspecified Zelda newcomer", to be honest.

 

[RiotLupine]

If we did get Leon, would Ashley be an annoying Assist Trophy?

The entire match would result in a no contest if a Ganado runs off the screen with her.

 

[Yoshisaurus Rex]

Since Snake is back, could we get another Konami rep besides Simon?

Spoiler

 

[Omega Tyrant]

Dixie doesn't have rocket barrels and her hair is such a key part of her character from her attacks to even her jumps that I have a hard time seeing Dixie as a true echo. Based on these properties, I could see her as Luigi-Mario/Lucas-Ness clone at most if they absolutely had to make her a not totally original character.

Dixie would ideally be a Luigi-level semi-clone, but like pointed out earlier, there's nothing that mechanically prevents Dixie from using Diddy's moves with the same hitboxes/hurtboxes besides the lone two tail moves (with one of those already confirmed removed), so if Sakurai really wanted Dixie on the roster but didn't want to devote much developmental resources to her, he could make her an Echo if he removed Diddy's two tail moves. Like Daisy is never depicted with the ability to float and the Toads don't serve her, yet she was still made a Peach Echo.

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

Anyone else kinda sad we're debating including RE for horror representation instead of one of the two horror IP Nintendo already owns (or co-owns in case of Fatal Frame)...?

...ok call me an idiot but what two games are you reffering to? (Unless Fatal Frame was one, then what other are you reffering to?)

If it's Metroid, just because there are horrific elements doesn't make it a horror, specifically survival horror which is what Resident Evil would represent (especially with the return to survial horror with 7 and 2 remake).

Anyway a Resident Evil character has been on my dream wishlist since I was like 10, but I also knew it was super unlikely even then lol. Would be reallllly crazy to see it come true. I agree that representing the monsters and Zombies would be the real issue. Also team Jill.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

...ok call me an idiot but what two games are you reffering to? (Unless Fatal Frame was one, then what other are you reffering to?)

If it's Metroid, just because there are horrific elements doesn't make it a horror, specifically survival horror which is what Resident Evil would represent (especially with the return to survial horror with 7 and 2 remake).

Anyway a Resident Evil character has been on my dream wishlist since I was like 10, but I also knew it was super unlikely even then lol. Would be reallllly crazy to see it come true. I agree that representing the monsters and Zombies would be the real issue. Also team Jill.

Eternal Darkness and Geist I think