Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Pakky]

This is probably a sentiment shared by many but I would much rather each character to have two or more costumes instead of giving the Miis 50 or so.

Here are some ideas for a few fighters


No mask, Morpho Knight

Louie, Olimarmin (Pikmin Olimar from Pimin 1's game over screen)


Pseudo

Blue/Green

Big Boss

Nun

DK jr

Boom

 

[ThatGuyWhoKnowsNothing]

It's Zelda. You know, one of the most influential series in the history of gaming, and possibly even outside gaming?
You seriously expect the fans of the third biggest franchise in Smash to be happy about having the same playable characters as Fire Emblem, with three being the same character?
There might be items, stages, etc. to represent the franchise but people want characters.
I mean, if people can ***** and moan about Waluigi, a literal filler meme character and K.rool, a forgotten character, then yes, Zelda fans have all the right in the world to want more.
Tingle and Impa should've been playable since Smash 4 at the least.
I'll take what we got because I'd rather be happy than disappointed yet again.

You my friend, should start running, now

 

[Fenriraga]

Brawl's not a bad game, far from it. It's just not a good competitive game. To this day, even as a Competitive player, I'm pretty sure I've put more time into Brawl than I have all the other Smash games.

 

[Pazzo.]

Hey everyone.
It's been such a long time since I've participated on SmashBoards- last real time was when we were all scrambling over Sm4sh speculation.

I think it may be time for my return.

"who the **** are you???"

It's not Smashboards without Dr. Pepper.

I remember you back from the Pic of the Day/Days era of Smash 4.

 

[AlphaSSB]

Brawl, in my opinion, was the best in the series. 2nd Favorite game of all time for me. Great roster, Subspace, etc. Felt it had a lot more to offer than Smash 4 ever did.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

As someone who plays Smash games for completion rather than competetion, Brawl's sins were the stickers and the random tripping.

Smash 4 is the worst sinner by far with DUPLICATE CUSTOM MOVES! Who thought that was a good idea?

 

[Enchess]

Brawl, in my opinion, was the best in the series. 2nd Favorite game of all time for me. Great roster, Subspace, etc. Felt it had a lot more to offer than Smash 4 ever did.

Brawl was the most fun I ever had in single player, that's for sure. I like Smash 4 way more when in a competitive mood though. It definitely has the best roster and mechanics for me of the currently released games.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

The idea of custom special moves was good. But the way to unlock them was not.

 

[Impa4Smash]

Chrom as an Ike echo would be kinda weird.
Ike's sword is way bigger and Chrom doing Ike's animations would not look that good IMO.
Can Chrom do something similar to Eruption?

Chrom as another Marth echo would be just bad.
And as a Roy echo, would be really similar to a Marth echo, so eh... also, does Chrom have fire?

Chrom being a Marth echo would probably be more true to his character. Lucina and Chrom supposedly fight alike, and if they have different fighting styles...

But 2 Marth echos would be too much. Plus some of Ike's moves genuinely work for Chrom, like his up-b - Chrom does it in an Awakening cut scene. It wouldn't be too much of a stretch.

 

[ThatGuyWhoKnowsNothing]

Whelp, everyone completely misunderstood my post and now I need to explain myself
This feels vaguely familiar
Anyhoo, I meant melee as a whole reacted very negatively to brawl as a whole when it first came out, as a result, it failed to gain much traction as a community, and ended up with a sickly fandom.

 

[Cosmic77]

I mean, if people can ***** and moan about Waluigi, a literal filler meme character and K.rool, a forgotten character, then yes, Zelda fans have all the right in the world to want more.

You my friend, should start running, now

I mean, he's not entirely wrong.

Supporting Ridley for so many years has toughened my skin, so massive popularity alone isn't enough to convince me. I might be a K. Rool supporter, but even I can acknowledge his obscurity being a major issue. The DK franchise continued on without him, and honestly, we've gotten to a point to where people are trying to pass K. Rool off as a retro rep. That alone should raise some red flags when his competition just appeared in a Wii U game and it's port.

 

[KMDP]

For me, Brawl is probably the Smash game I played the most, by far.

During my last year of College (British College, the equivalent of American High School), I carried my Wii to school in a laptop bag (which required walking uphill) every day and played it with the guys in my year (Grade) in the TV room of our Common Room during our free periods.

I don't hate Brawl, it lightened my and many other's school days.

I also became somewhat infamous right after Brawl was released because I unlocked every character in Brawl over the course of a Weekend.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Just for reference sake and speculation fodder, when the newcomer and DLC reveals happened for Smash 4:

E3 Directs: Villager, MegaMan, and Wii Fit (E3 '13), Palutena, Dark Pit, Miis, and Pac-Man (E3'14), 2 in all.

Smash Directs: Greninja (April '14), Bowser Jr. and Mewtwo (Oct '14), Roy and Ryu (June '15), Corrin and Bayo (Dec '15), 4 in all.

Regular Directs: Rosalina (Dec '13), Little Mac (Feb '14), Shulk (Aug '14), Duck Hunt (Nov '14), Lucas (April '15), Cloud (Nov '15), 6 in all.

Out of da Blue: Robin and Lucina (July '14), 1 in all.

Time Line:

June 13 (+3) ---6 months--- Dec 13 (+1)--- 2 months--- Feb 14 (+1)--- 2 months--- April 14 (+1)--- 2 months--- June 14 (+6) --- 1 month --- July 14 (+2) --- 1 month --- Aug 14 (+1)--- 2 months --- Oct 14 (+2) --- 6 months--- April 15 (+1)---2 months--- June 15 (+2)--- 5 months--- Nov 15 (+1)--- 1 month--- Dec 15 (+2)

Average time span between reveals: 2.7 months so can be rounded down to 2.5 or up to 3.

 

[Omega Tyrant]

I didn't saw this to discredit to Simon but more so that we know that Sakurai can swerve from his original plans like Zelda and the 6 clones in Melee, Sonic, Jigglypuff, Toon Link, and Wolf in Brawl, and Rosalina, Lucina, Robin, Bowser Jr, and Duck Hunt in Smash 4. That's why I don't think the Simon + 6 is a final number and I think it echoes what has happened in the past. It seems like Sakurai comes up with an initial list and then ideas crawl into his ear, sometimes even mere months before release. I also think it's a small miracle that characters like Cloud and Bayonetta and I think they're more protective of this info as time goes on. In that sense, the stuff planned right at the beginning is probably the most likely stuff to get leaked.

Sonic was originally planned in Brawl, Sega just initially denied him and then changed their mind mid-development. Jigglypuff, Toon Link, and Wolf were also always planned in Brawl, they were just among a designated group of low priority characters (alongside other members of the Forbidden 7), who Sakurai would have cut if it was necessary to meet deadlines (and thus kept out of the SSE so no complications with the story would arise if he needed to cut them mid-development). Then Rosalina, Robin, Duck Hunt, and Bowser Jr. were also always planned; we even see the former three featured in the part of the project plan that Sakurai shared. The Gematsu leaker just didn't know of the latter three for whatever reason, and Rosalina was revealed before his second set of leaks came in, so who knows if the Gematsu leaker didn't knew of her or if she was just revealed before he could leak her.

The only changes to the originally planned roster are clones being added (the six Melee clones and the alt-costume clones in Smash 4), then low priority characters being cut to meet developmental demands, characters with technical issues making them infeasible to complete being cut, and third parties who the licensing could not be obtained for. The only ever exception to this is Sonic, who was initially planned anyway, and only got in later because he was the most demanded character by such a massive margin and getting him in Smash was such a huge deal in general.

 

[AlphaSSB]

On the topic of Chrom, I don't see him happening at all. Not as a unique fighter, nor as clone.

Sakurai had concerns with the number of Fire Emblem characters before Corrin. Only reason why Corrin made it in the first place was because he would be used to promote an upcoming game, and because the development team convinced Sakurai that he'd be a unique fighter. Adding in Chrom as an Echo would go against both of these things.

Sakurai hasn't forgotten how many Fire Emblem characters there are, and I'm sure Sakurai is aware of the backlash over their staggering numbers. The only way I could see Sakurai adding any more FE characters in general would be if the series had substantial cuts, but everyone is back.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

On the topic of Chrom, I don't see him happening at all. Not as a unique fighter, nor as clone.

Sakurai had concerns with the number of Fire Emblem characters before Corrin. Only reason why Corrin made it in the first place was because he would be used to promote an upcoming game, and because the development team convinced Sakurai that he'd be a unique fighter. Adding in Chrom as an Echo would go against both of these things.

Sakurai hasn't forgotten how many Fire Emblem characters there are, and I'm sure Sakurai is aware of the backlash over their staggering numbers. The only way I could see Sakurai adding any more FE characters in general would be if the series had substantial cuts, but everyone is back.

But Lucina isn't really counted as her own character anymore, and neither would Chrom

 

[Enchess]

I mean, he's not entirely wrong.

Supporting Ridley for so many years has toughened my skin, so massive popularity alone isn't enough to convince me. I might be a K. Rool supporter, but even I can acknowledge his obscurity being a major issue. The DK franchise continued on without him, and honestly, we've gotten to a point to where people are trying to pass K. Rool off as a retro rep. That alone should raise some red flags when his competition just appeared in a Wii U game and it's port.

I wouldn't really call Lord Frederik his competition. K. Rool is still very much the villain of DK as a series. No one stopped considering Ganon the villain of Zelda after the Vaati titles or considering Bowser the villain of Mario after Fawful.

 

[dezeray112]

I have been researching lately on third-parties lately, and have been thinking about this quote a lot:

https://sourcegaming.info/2016/02/23/nintendo-dream-interview-with-sakurai-part-2/



Assuming that the next third parties for Smash Ultimate are from globally recognized Japanese game series, who do you believe Sakurai is thinking about? Simon from Castlevania is a given, but what else? I can only think of Professor Layton given that Level-5 is one of the biggest 3rd party companies out there, with Layton being among the few that had reached worldwide success.

Hmm....well the only other series that I could think about is Capcom's Monster Hunter series.

EDIT: I'm not 100% sure about the others, but maybe the Tekken series?

 

[EricTheGamerman]

So, with all this exciting new info I updated my roster prediction to make it reflect the ballot, recent games as of the project plan, and Mii Costumes, which I feel will contain most of our newcomers:

Spoiler: Prediction Roster

View attachment 149285

All I'm saying is that it would make a lot of sense for Sakurai and his team to make the most of characters they're already making (Ashley, K. Rool, Chrom) and characters they've been given permission to use (Geno, Lloyd, Monster Hunter).

I also ordered it in order of potential reveals (K. Rool, Dixie, and Bandana Dee, Ashley, Isabelle, and Geno, Elma and Monster Hunter, Simon, Chrom, and Lloyd, and Lip and the Chorus Men as secret fighters).

While 16 characters may seem like a lot, it is still the less newcomers added than in Brawl and Sm4sh, and with 4 new echo fighters it's more like 12 characters, which is less than Melee.

God, this roster would basically be perfect with the exception of Isaac missing from it. I really hope you’re right in this prediction.

 

[AlphaSSB]

But Lucina isn't really counted as her own character anymore, and neither would Chrom

I'd argue that Lucina, as well as the other clones, are considered their own characters. That's why they have their own pages on the website. The 'Echos' aren't given their own number since they offer nothing unique to the table.

 

[DemonRin]

I mean, Chrom could be an Alph-like costume? Not a new character but get him in there?

Speaking of which, if Simon Belmont is real, I kinda want the same for Richter...

 

[Tree Gelbman]

If Monster Hunter got in? How would they handle the Palico?

Assist trophy? Part of the Hunter's moveset?

Too big of an element to not be present.

 

[Deleted member]

I wouldn't really call Lord Frederik his competition. K. Rool is still very much the villain of DK as a series. No one stopped considering Ganon the villain of Zelda after the Vaati titles or considering Bowser the villain of Mario after Fawful.

Pretty sure they're talking about the likes of Dixie, Cranky, and Funky more than Fredrik.

 

[Idon]

I mean, Chrom could be an Alph-like costume? Not a new character but get him in there?

Speaking of which, if Simon Belmont is real, I kinda want the same for Richter...

But here's the thing, all echoes could be an "Alph-like" costume

If they're going to go through the trouble of making new models for Chrom, they really might as well make new taunt, victory, and intro animations and change some random percentage values on some moves to make an echo fighter.

If Monster Hunter got in? How would they handle the Palico?

Assist trophy? Part of the Hunter's moveset?

Too big of an element to not be present.

Taunt animation and one of the victory animations I'd guess.

 

[Untouch]

The idea of custom special moves was good. But the way to unlock them was not.

80% of the custom moves were useless.
The remaining 20% were broken

 

[Jedisupersonic]

Chrom being a Marth echo would probably be more true to his character. Lucina and Chrom supposedly fight alike, and if they have different fighting styles...

But 2 Marth echos would be too much. Plus some of Ike's moves genuinely work for Chrom, like his up-b - Chrom does it in an Awakening cut scene. It wouldn't be too much of a stretch.

They don't fight like Marth in their home game though. That's why some people don't like Lucy as a Marth clone to begin with.

I mean, Chrom could be an Alph-like costume? Not a new character but get him in there?

Speaking of which, if Simon Belmont is real, I kinda want the same for Richter...

i suggested it in the Simon thread but Simon having 7 Belmonts as his alts ala Bowser Jr would be a really cool thing.

 

[Cosmic77]

80% of the custom moves were useless.
The remaining 20% were useless.

Speak for yourself. Shooting Star Bit made Rosalina OP as heck.

 

[Honest Slug]

Brawl was a great game, it just wasn't good competitively.

 

[Untouch]

Speak for yourself. Shooting Star Bit made Rosalina OP as heck.

I mean 20% were broken, that was one of the 20% of the broken ones.
If they can manage to balance them all, sure, but they didn't in smash 4.

 

[Lady Byakugan]

It's Zelda. You know, one of the most influential series in the history of gaming, and possibly even outside gaming?
You seriously expect the fans of the third biggest franchise in Smash to be happy about having the same playable characters as Fire Emblem, with three being the same character?
There might be items, stages, etc. to represent the franchise but people want characters.
I mean, if people can ***** and moan about Waluigi, a literal filler meme character and K.rool, a forgotten character, then yes, Zelda fans have all the right in the world to want more.
Tingle and Impa should've been playable since Smash 4 at the least.
I'll take what we got because I'd rather be happy than disappointed yet again.

Well said. Also, the argument that the Zelda character needs to be recurring is nonsense anyways. Fire Emblem and Xeno change their characters, with the likes of Roy not having appeared in ages, yet they constantly get a "lord of the week" into smash despite most being one-offs in their own series. Meanwhile, highly popular characters like Tingle, Impa, Fierce Deity, Midna, Ghirahim, and Skull Kid are absent, with their detractors justifying it because they're not consistent/recurring LOZ characters? What?

No doubt, out of all the series in smash, LOZ always gets the shortest end of the stick when it comes to characters.

 

[Jedisupersonic]

I mean 20% were broken, that was one of the 20% of the broken ones.
If they can manage to balance them all, sure, but they didn't in smash 4.

I'd rather not have a repeat of Villagers customs please and thank you.

 

[Fatmanonice]

I mean, Chrom could be an Alph-like costume? Not a new character but get him in there?

.

I disagree. Alph works as an ALT because Olimar in Smash is totally silent, pretty much taking away any real differences the characters have in Pikmin 3. Chrom as a true ALT of Ike would be weird, especially now that Ike already has both his Ranger and Radiant Hero looks as ALTs. Plus, on top of that, Chrom having all of Ike's victory poses and taunts would be kind of weird too.

 

[ThatGuyWhoKnowsNothing]

I mean, he's not entirely wrong.

Supporting Ridley for so many years has toughened my skin, so massive popularity alone isn't enough to convince me. I might be a K. Rool supporter, but even I can acknowledge his obscurity being a major issue. The DK franchise continued on without him, and honestly, we've gotten to a point to where people are trying to pass K. Rool off as a retro rep. That alone should raise some red flags when his competition just appeared in a Wii U game and it's port.

That wasn't the point, the point was he probably pissed off a whole bunch of people who wanted him, dry observational humour is kinda how I roll

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

I wouldn't really call Lord Frederik his competition. K. Rool is still very much the villain of DK as a series. No one stopped considering Ganon the villain of Zelda after the Vaati titles or considering Bowser the villain of Mario after Fawful.

Pretty sure the competition they were talking about was dixie lol

 

[True Blue Warrior]

but even I can acknowledge his obscurity being a major issue

His lack of recent appearance may be a factor against him, but his obscurity isn't even a valid argument, let alone a "major issue".

 

[Idon]

Well said. Also, the argument that the Zelda character needs to be recurring his nonsense anyways. Fire Emblem and Xeno change their characters, with the likes of Roy not having appeared in ages, yet they constantly get a "lord of the week" into smash despite most being one-offs in their own series. Meanwhile, highly popular characters like Tingle, Impa, Fierce Deity, Midna, Ghirahim, and Skull Kid are absent, with their detractors justifying it because they're not consistent/recurring LOZ characters? What?

No doubt, out of all the series in smash, LOZ always gets the shortest end of the stick when it comes to characters.

Not only did Roy appear in one GBA game, he also got in before his actual release date of his original title, serving as effectively an advertisement for FE6 and sharing no personality traits from his original game either.
And better yet, he still hasn't officially appeared over here in Western shores.
Then you're stuck in the conundrum with discussing if Roy "deserves" to be in Smash.

"Why is Roy popular? Because he's in Smash!"
"Why is he in Smash? Because Roy's popular!"

Also, the obligatory "ROY'S OUR BOY" memes.

So yeah, making a scale for "deserving to be in Smash" is stupid, nonsensical, and ultimately leads to dead-end arguments because Sakurai doesn't go back on his decisions

 

[Impa4Smash]

They don't fight like Marth in their home game though. That's why some people don't like Lucy as a Marth clone to begin with.

i suggested it in the Simon thread but Simon having 7 Belmonts as his alts ala Bowser Jr would be a really cool thing.

I disagree. Alph works as an ALT because Olimar in Smash is totally silent, pretty much taking away any real differences the characters have in Pikmin 3. Chrom as a true ALT of Ike would be weird, especially now that Ike already has both his Ranger and Radiant Hero looks as ALTs. Plus, on top of that, Chrom having all of Ike's victory poses and taunts would be kind of weird too.

Plus Olimar and Alph’s weapons are the Pikmin. Chrom has a completely different weapon from Ike

 

[Jedisupersonic]

Not only did Roy appear in one GBA game, he also got in before his actual release date of his original title, serving as effectively an advertisement for FE6 and sharing no personality traits from his original game either.
And better yet, he still hasn't officially appeared over here in Western shores.
Then you're stuck in the conundrum with discussing if Roy "deserves" to be in Smash.

"Why is Roy popular? Because he's in Smash!"
"Why is he in Smash? Because Roy's popular!"

Also, the obligatory "ROY'S OUR BOY" memes.

Technically he has now due to Awakening DLC, and Heroes.

 

[Lady Byakugan]

Not only did Roy appear in one GBA game, he also got in before his actual release date of his original title, serving as effectively an advertisement for FE6 and sharing no personality traits from his original game either.
And better yet, he still hasn't officially appeared over here in Western shores.
Then you're stuck in the conundrum with discussing if Roy "deserves" to be in Smash.

"Why is Roy popular? Because he's in Smash!"
"Why is he in Smash? Because Roy's popular!"

Also, the obligatory "ROY'S OUR BOY" memes.

It still baffles me how unfair Sakurai is, dishing out characters to FE left and right yet LOZ is stuck with 3 originals in Link, Zelda, and Sheik, 2 clones in Young and Toon Link, and then the main villain up until just now has been a semi-clone of a character who's own moves were made up.

If LOZ doesn't get a character in Smash 5, that will have been THREE games and 17 years since it got a unique fighter.

 

[Cosmic77]

Well said. Also, the argument that the Zelda character needs to be recurring his nonsense anyways. Fire Emblem and Xeno change their characters, with the likes of Roy not having appeared in ages, yet they constantly get a "lord of the week" into smash despite most being one-offs in their own series. Meanwhile, highly popular characters like Tingle, Impa, Fierce Deity, Midna, Ghirahim, and Skull Kid are absent, with their detractors justifying it because they're not consistent/recurring LOZ characters? What?

No doubt, out of all the series in smash, LOZ always gets the shortest end of the stick when it comes to characters.

I have nothing against Impa, but one thing that I find a little irritating is that people who make a case for her act like she's the most iconic thing next to Link and Zelda.

The young Impa we want in Smash might be recurring, but I wouldn't doubt if people were way more familiar with Skull Kid, Midna, and possibly the Champions (AKA a bunch of one-shots).

His lack of recent appearance may be a factor against him, but his obscurity isn't even a valid argument, let alone a "major issue".

A lack of recent appearances is literally what causes obscurity. The longer a character goes without appearing in games, the fewer amount of people will be able to recognize said character.