Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Jedisupersonic]

And I would say more like Chrom was expected to be selected new FE Rep because of trends; and he was expected to replace Ike.

The support for other characters pretty much was eclipsed because of this mindset; despite some people actually supporting other choices.

Yeah pre Smash 4 Ike reveal was a trip, I remember the discussions on Serenes pretty much all expecting Ike to be gone and Chrom to take his place.

Nowadays with Ike topping popularity poll after poll, people would never say that now.

 

[Fenriraga]

I wouldn't say Chrom was "most requested" as much as he was "most expected".

At the time, between Marth, Ike and Roy, we were lead to believe FE reps would consist of whatever "Lord of the Week" was relevant at the time, so Naturally people felt Chrom was the most likely choice. And considering Chrom was indeed condidered at first, we weren't too far off.

Of course, that also isn't to say Chrom isn't awesome, because he is, one of the best Lords in the series hands down.

 

[Jedisupersonic]

I wouldn't say Chrom was "most requested" as much as he was "most expected".

At the time, between Marth, Ike and Roy, we were lead to believe FE reps would consist of whatever "Lord of the Week" was relevant at the time, so Naturally people felt Chrom was the most likely choice. And considering Chrom was indeed condidered at first, we weren't too far off.

Of course, that also isn't to say Chrom isn't awesome, because he is, one of the best Lords in the series hands down.

He has stiff compeition from Sigurd, Marth, Hector, Ephraim and Leif

And from my personal bias points Eliwood . But yeah Chrom is a fine guy, just not a super huge favorite of mine in terms of lords. (I don't particularly like Ephraim much either but he's commonly stated so I put him there).

 

[KMDP]

He has stiff compeition from Sigurd, Marth, Hector, Ephraim and Leif

And from my personal bias points Eliwood . But yeah Chrom is a fine guy, just not a super huge favorite of mine in terms of lords.

Eliwood as a Marth alt might work in a weird way (I wouldn't make him Roy's alt, since Eliwood can't use Fire.)

 

[Jedisupersonic]

Eliwood as a Marth alt might work in a weird way (I wouldn't make him Roy's alt, since Eliwood can't use Fire.)

I'd pay for Eliwood to be an Echo to at least be in the game, but I don't think he has a chance in hell at this point to be perfectly frank.

 

[papagenos]

I'm guessing at Chrom as an echo fighter... just feels like the sort of thing sakurai might do for Chrom fans as he "almost" made it last time.

 

[Fatmanonice]

When I talk about Smash speculation, I'm always careful to make the distinction between casual fans and the more hardcore fans because there is a fairly wide gulf between and we've been told that Nintendo takes both into account in the past.

Casual- will primarily play the mainstream games. If a game/franchise isn't super popular and/or is much older than them and/or a region exclusive, they probably won't know it.

Hardcore- is much more likely to play obscure games, play games that are over a decade old, and goes out of their way to play region exclusives. Is much more likely to recognize any newcomers or even assist trophy because they are likely to be ingrained in Nintendo fanbase communities.

For example, there's no way in Hell most casual fans will even recognize Sukapon, let alone have played Joy Fight Mech.

Most characters that get in are instantly recognizable by casual fans but characters like Lucas, Shulk, and Bayonetta appeal much more to the hardcore fanbase. I feel like Nintendo makes a decent effort to appeal to both because, let's face it, the Smash roster would be significantly smaller if it only focused on franchises that regularly broke the million sold mark on their games.

 

[Jedisupersonic]

I'm guessing at Chrom as an echo fighter... just feels like the sort of thing sakurai might do for Chrom fans as he "almost" made it last time.

I think Chrom has a solid shot as one, and Matt Mercer can finally be in smash.

Although I have seen a bit of support for Alm and Celica of late as Roy & Robin Echoes respectively.

 

[KMDP]

When I talk about Smash speculation, I'm always careful to make the distinction between casual fans and the more hardcore fans because there is a fairly wide gulf between and we've been told that Nintendo takes both into account in the past.

Casual- will primarily play the mainstream games. If a game/franchise isn't super popular and/or is much older than them and/or a region exclusive, they probably won't know it.

Hardcore- is much more likely to play obscure games, play games that are over a decade old, and goes out of their way to play region exclusives. Is much more likely to recognize any newcomers or even assist trophy because they are likely to be ingrained in Nintendo fanbase communities.

For example, there's no way in Hell most casual fans will even recognize Sukapon, let alone have played Joy Fight Mech.

Most characters that get in are instantly recognizable by casual fans but characters like Lucas, Shulk, and Bayonetta appeal much more to the hardcore fanbase. I feel like Nintendo makes a decent effort to appeal to both because, let's face it, the Smash roster would be significantly smaller if it only focused on franchises that regularly broke the million sold mark on their games.

With characters like, say: Marth, Ness, Lucas et al. Smash makes a great gateway from Casual to Hardcore.

 

[NextChannelGames]

When I talk about Smash speculation, I'm always careful to make the distinction between casual fans and the more hardcore fans because there is a fairly wide gulf between and we've been told that Nintendo takes both into account in the past.

Casual- will primarily play the mainstream games. If a game/franchise isn't super popular and/or is much older than them and/or a region exclusive, they probably won't know it.

Hardcore- is much more likely to play obscure games, play games that are over a decade old, and goes out of their way to play region exclusives. Is much more likely to recognize any newcomers or even assist trophy because they are likely to be ingrained in Nintendo fanbase communities.

For example, there's no way in Hell most casual fans will even recognize Sukapon, let alone have played Joy Fight Mech.

Most characters that get in are instantly recognizable by casual fans but characters like Lucas, Shulk, and Bayonetta appeal much more to the hardcore fanbase. I feel like Nintendo makes a decent effort to appeal to both because, let's face it, the Smash roster would be significantly smaller if it only focused on franchises that regularly broke the million sold mark on their games.

Indeed, I’ve always seen Super Smash Bros being a game that has focus on both casual & hardcore. Bringing the old classics and introducing them to a new generation of gamers while the retro gamers see they’re old favorites coming back after a long time.

 

[Omega Tyrant]

He's probably right but, like Gematsu with SSB4, it's likely he had access to really early development plans somehow.

Assuming Vergeben is legit, I don't see why it's "likely early information"; if it's because he only has a small portion of information, then that's normal as leaks rarely have the whole picture of a game (all the various Brawl leaks only had a portion of the roster and had to be put together to get everyone, and then the Gematsu leaker himself never claimed he had the whole roster, while a whole early roster would have had the other missing characters anyway as only the alt-costume clones were added mid-development). But if it's legit and is early information, Belmont will be in regardless; a third party character won't be low priority nor subjected to a Chrom situation, and it's not like Belmont would have any particular technical hurdles that could lead to him getting cut mid-development.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

I really question you here.

I do agree we can't say a Greninja situation is an impossibility, but saying the only reason it can't happen is because of personal bias I feel is being completely disengenious to the argument and dismissive of the people arguing about it. Many people would like to see (or are ambivalent to) Rex/Pyra, but feel timing may be an issue and a Greninja situation isn't feasible for multiple reasons, the two aren't mutually exclusive and pretending they are is being quite frankly rude to the other side of the argument.

Even ignoring that, there are differences that may cause the situation to not happen for one when it did the other. Greninja is currently a one time thing, and that makes his situation unique among the many newcomers that have come in, and that means it could very well be exclusive to him rather then a plausible thing for other franchises. Similarly, we also know Pokémon/TCPi do have a few differences in their character selection process such as TCPi being more involved in the process and Sakurai looking more to advertising and what's 'hot' to figure out what to go with. That may make the situation happening for other franchises not as possible since Sakurai and those developers are approaching the process differently, we already know Takahashi said Sakurai picked and designed Shulk with pretty much free reign, so it's completely fair to think that it's possible that Sakurai doesn't go to Xenoblade for 'insert new character here', he could go for Elma/Cross, or no new character at all. Speculation is all about analysis, and you can't look at one situation exclusively without going over what happened with it and what could prevent it from happening again.

Perhaps I am combining two different things i’m seeing.

First, you are correct. It isn’t only or simply the “Greninja” thing that goes against Rex and Pyra. There is without a doubt a timing issue. However, what I see among a good amount of websites where Smash is discussed is almost a...hostility toward the character. Anytime they’re brought up here, it reverts to Pyra needing to be censored or how “Elma is happening over them”.

Just the other day, I saw comments about how the absence of several characters in the demo made them more likely, and that’s quite literally not how that works. There’s a difference in being hopeful and spreading false information/making bad assumptions.

Speculation is fun because of the analysis of different things, but there are most certainly aspects of speculation that are led almost entirely by fan bias.

 

[ThatGuyWhoKnowsNothing]

so, random thought about echo fighters, how would shadow work? he'd need chaos control to fell... Right, at all in smash. Sooo, what if instead of making it it it's own move, it was simply added to certain combo starters? Marth has tipper, Lucina does not, so chaos control could be counted as a property for a move. for instance, sonics side b-up b- up air combo, up air and spin dash would freeze the opponent witch time style. obviously, this would be insanely broken, I stand by my long-ago statement about shadow toping the tier list made it in. but, spin dash really... couldn't have witch time, because that would be more than a little bit broken, imagine trying to contest with spindash's invincibility and having it freeze you in place, but it' s a fun concept anyway.

 

[KMDP]

so, random thought about echo fighters, how would shadow work? he'd need chaos control to fell... Right, at all in smash. Sooo, what if instead of making it it it's own move, it was simply added to certain combo starters? Marth has tipper, Lucina does not, so chaos control could be counted as a property for a move. for instance, sonics side b-up b- up air combo, up air and spin dash would freeze the opponent witch time style. obviously, this would be insanely broken, I stand by my long-ago statement about shadow toping the tier list made it in. but, spin dash really... couldn't have witch time, because that would be more than a little bit broken, imagine trying to contest with spindash's invincibility and having it freeze you in place, but it' s a fun concept anyway.

I wouldn't consider Shadow as an Echo tbh.
I direct you to this post I made yesterday.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

The thing with Shadow is he can work as an echo or uniquely. It's not like Dark Pit copying almost everything Pit does despite Dark Pit's entire shtick being wanting his own identity in Uprising

 

[BluePikmin11]

I have been researching lately on third-parties lately, and have been thinking about this quote a lot:

https://sourcegaming.info/2016/02/23/nintendo-dream-interview-with-sakurai-part-2/

-Final Fantasy VII (FFVII below) has never been released on a Nintendo console, so how did Cloud end up appearing in Smash?

Sakurai: Final Fantasy (FF below) is one of the few uniquely Japanese game series revered by players around the world. I think fans across the globe have hoped a character from one of those series would appear in Smash, so it was only a matter of time. At the same time, there are only so many big-name titles we can work with at this point—mainly because we’ve covered most of those bases. Aside from the major globally-recognized franchises already featured in Smash, there really aren’t that many left.

Assuming that the next third parties for Smash Ultimate are from globally recognized Japanese game series, who do you believe Sakurai is thinking about? Simon from Castlevania is a given, but what else? I can only think of Professor Layton given that Level-5 is one of the biggest 3rd party companies out there, with Layton being among the few that had reached worldwide success.

 

[Jedisupersonic]

I still remember during brawls speculation period, when I saw Pokemon trainer I was still in my huge initial FE high (7, 8, 9, 10 imported 6 under my belt) and I was like y'know Pokemon Trainers concept would be cool for Eliwood, Hector and Lyn.

Lyn with the fast Eastern Sword style (which still isn't in Smash in any playable regard and that frankly astounds me usually Katanas are everywhere).

Eliwood with the balanced moveset along with graceful movement (think Marth but possibly even more stab heavy, think Orie from Under Night).

Hector would be the baaaam heavy man.

 

[TBone06]

I'm guessing at Chrom as an echo fighter... just feels like the sort of thing sakurai might do for Chrom fans as he "almost" made it last time.

I agree, that whole video was just weird. I'll state first that I have zero attachment to Chrom, but there was just something almost cringy about the fact that they show him, DON'T reveal him, him saying he'll get his chance another day, then to find out he's part of Robin's final smash. Don't get me wrong, I feel like Robin is a very unique character, but I just feel like they did him dirty in that reveal video.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I have been researching lately on third-parties lately, and have been thinking about this quote a lot:

https://sourcegaming.info/2016/02/23/nintendo-dream-interview-with-sakurai-part-2/



Assuming that the next third parties for Smash Ultimate are from globally recognized Japanese game series, who do you believe Sakurai is thinking about? Simon from Castlevania is a given, but what else? I can only think of Professor Layton given that Level-5 is one of the biggest 3rd party companies out there, with Layton being among the few that had reached worldwide success.

Doomguy so Ridley just looks at him during Doomguy's trailer and says "Well ****" before getting gunned down harder than the guy trying to demonstrate the EDDIE in Robocop

 

[ThatGuyWhoKnowsNothing]

I wouldn't consider Shadow as an Echo tbh.
I direct you to this post I made yesterday.

The thing with Shadow is he can work as an echo or uniquely. It's not like Dark Pit copying almost everything Pit does despite Dark Pit's entire shtick being wanting his own identity in Uprising

I agree I think shadow deserves his own, non/semi-clone character, but if we get him in as an echo at least we got him in

 

[Fenriraga]

Chrom as an echo would be so cathartic.

He really DID get his chance another day.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

I'm ready for another round of AT disconfirmations.

 

[Deleted member]

Chrom is the only Echo I want, just to see Opo's reaction.

 

[Deleted member]

Chrom is the only Echo I want, just to see Opo's reaction.

You're hoping for a positive one, right?

 

[Deleted member]

You're hoping for a positive one, right?

Yeah, why?

 

[Green_Pikmin*]

Nope, just a natural end result of random conversation.


Might we expect

BREAK THE CAR​

as a new Classic mode minigame?
I imagine (read: hope) that for Final Fantasy we get Sephiroth as a fighter, with Tifa and Aerith as assist trophies (I'd like Cloud's girlfirend Tifa to be a fighter too, but I'm more realistic than that. XD) EDIT: also, Zack as an alt for Cloud.

Expounding on Tifa and Aerith assist trophies; Tifa could replace the Little Mac Assist Trophy from Brawl, while Aerith could do what she does in Dissidia 012 (either heal you, stun the enemy, or give you temporary status buffs).

I think laughed more than i should have when I seen break the car.

 

[Chandeelure]

Chrom as an Ike echo would be kinda weird.
Ike's sword is way bigger and Chrom doing Ike's animations would not look that good IMO.
Can Chrom do something similar to Eruption?

Chrom as another Marth echo would be just bad.
And as a Roy echo, would be really similar to a Marth echo, so eh... also, does Chrom have fire?

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Chrom as an Ike echo would be kinda weird.
Ike's sword is way bigger and Chrom doing Ike's animations would not look that good IMO.
Can Chrom do something similar to Eruption?

Chrom as another Marth echo would be just bad.
And as a Roy echo, would be really similar to a Marth echo, so eh... also, does Chrom have fire?

Sakurai: "They're Echo Fighters I don't have to explain ****"

 

[Idon]

Chrom as an Ike echo would be kinda weird.
Ike's sword is way bigger and Chrom doing Ike's animations would not look that good IMO.
Can Chrom do something similar to Eruption?

Chrom as another Marth echo would be just bad.
And as a Roy echo, would be really similar to a Marth echo, so eh... also, does Chrom have fire?

Chrom cannot do an eruption, but on the other hand, neither can Ike. So it's a made up unfitting move either way.
Chrom does not have fire, but that is an effect that can easily be removed because it's purely visual flair (or flare, huehuehue puns).

Also echo fighters are dumb-lore wise anyways. The only prerequisite is that they share a similar body-type and weaponry.

 

[Jedisupersonic]

Chrom as an Ike echo would be kinda weird.
Ike's sword is way bigger and Chrom doing Ike's animations would not look that good IMO.
Can Chrom do something similar to Eruption?

Chrom as another Marth echo would be just bad.
And as a Roy echo, would be really similar to a Marth echo, so eh... also, does Chrom have fire?

Chrom could have Lightning attributes, he's always kind of been associated with them.

 

[Opossum]

You're hoping for a positive one, right?

Barring TMS Chrom, any playable Chrom would yield a positive reaction.

 

[Deleted member]

Yeah, why?

Just wanted to be sure, since I didn't know if the focus of the reaction was to be on Chrom being an Echo and not unique or Chrom actually being playable.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Assuming Vergeben is legit, I don't see why it's "likely early information"; if it's because he only has a small portion of information, then that's normal as leaks rarely have the whole picture of a game (all the various Brawl leaks only had a portion of the roster and had to be put together to get everyone, and then the Gematsu leaker himself never claimed he had the whole roster, while a whole early roster would have had the other missing characters anyway as only the alt-costume clones were added mid-development). But if it's legit and is early information, Belmont will be in regardless; a third party character won't be low priority nor subjected to a Chrom situation, and it's not like Belmont would have any particular technical hurdles that could lead to him getting cut mid-development.

I didn't saw this to discredit to Simon but more so that we know that Sakurai can swerve from his original plans like Zelda and the 6 clones in Melee, Sonic, Jigglypuff, Toon Link, and Wolf in Brawl, and Rosalina, Lucina, Robin, Bowser Jr, and Duck Hunt in Smash 4. That's why I don't think the Simon + 6 is a final number and I think it echoes what has happened in the past. It seems like Sakurai comes up with an initial list and then ideas crawl into his ear, sometimes even mere months before release. I also think it's a small miracle that characters like Cloud and Bayonetta didn't get leaked and I think they're more protective of this info as time goes on. In that sense, the stuff planned right at the beginning is probably the most likely stuff to get leaked.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Just so that everyone is aware, I recently made a new thread at Pit's (and Dark Pit's) forum, where you can post your custom Palutena's Guidance conversations. If you don't want your custom conversations to be overlooked, feel free to post them at the following thread link.

https://smashboards.com/threads/455935/

 

[Opossum]

As far as how Eruption would work on a hypothetical Ike Echo Chrom, the easiest way to justify it is to change the flame color to white and rename the move "Awakening."

The Awakening rite, which Chrom performs toward the end of the game, has him being bathed in Naga's holy fire to power up Falchion into the Exalted Falchion. It's said those who are worthy survive, and those who aren't are burned to ash. Perfect justification for why Chrom would have a fire move.

 

[ThatGuyWhoKnowsNothing]

* WARNING, THE FOLLOWING POST CONTAINS HIGH LEVELS OF EXTREME SARCASM AND MILD HYPERBOLE, DO NOT READ IF EASILY OFFENDED*​

*High nasally voice* Hi, just your friendly neighbourhood melee elitist here, I think all your problems with that weird witch chick would go away if you all just played melee.
*what everyone thinks but no one says* you, my friend, are a horrible disgrace to humanity, and a law should be passed that allows us to kill you people.
So, that was actually leading up something actually interesting, I wanted to rank the current health of the smash games communities, and then see where I think ultimate is going to end up
1. Melee. Although it's close, melee's been around longer, and have figured out their competitive ruleset, and everyone's accepted melee is melee and that's how it is.
2. Smash. through the hindrance of bayo and cloud, and an unstable ruleset, were doing good, but we haven't figured everything out.
3. Smash 64. not much to say, not as popular, but they actually know what they're doing, so there's that
4. Smash Ultimate. this version will be coming out of the gate blind, and they won't have their DLC for a while, in the beginning, they'll have trouble, although they'll probably figure it out later and rise above the others
5. Brawl. Ah Brawl, everyone hate's brawl, that's all there is to it.
What do you think? I'm pretty curious to see what other people think

 

[Opossum]

* WARNING, THE FOLLOWING POST CONTAINS HIGH LEVELS OF EXTREME SARCASM, DO NOT READ IF EASILY OFFENDED OR EXTREMELY GULLIBLE*​

*High nasally voice* Hi, just your friendly neighbourhood melee elitist here, I think all your problems with that weird witch chick would go away if you all just played melee.
*what everyone thinks but no one says* you, my friend, are a horrible disgrace to humanity, and a law should be passed that allows us to kill you people.
So, that was actually leading up something actually interesting, I wanted to rank the current health of the smash games communities, and then see where I think ultimate is going to end up
1. Melee. Although it's close, melee's been around longer, and have figured out their competitive ruleset, and everyone's accepted melee is melee and that's how it is.
2. Smash. through the hindrance of bayo and cloud, and an unstable ruleset, were doing good, but we haven't figured everything out.
3. Smash 64. not much to say, not as popular, but they actually know what they're doing, so there's that
4. Smash Ultimate. this version will be coming out of the gate blind, and they won't have their DLC for a while, in the beginning, they'll have trouble, although they'll probably figure it out later and rise above the others
5. Brawl. Ah Brawl, everyone hate's brawl, that's all there is to it.
What do you think? I'm pretty curious to see what other people think

I don't hate Brawl.

 

[ThatGuyWhoKnowsNothing]

I don't hate Brawl.

Fixed it

 

[monadoboy]

We get Link reworked to represent Breath of the Wild, Zelda changed to her Link to the Past & Link Between Worlds appearance, Ganondorf changed to his Ocarina of Time appearance and gets new Smash attacks to further differentiate him from Captain Falcon, Young Link returning, and people still need aren't satisfied?

It's Zelda. You know, one of the most influential series in the history of gaming, and possibly even outside gaming?
You seriously expect the fans of the third biggest franchise in Smash to be happy about having the same playable characters as Fire Emblem, with three being the same character?
There might be items, stages, etc. to represent the franchise but people want characters.
I mean, if people can ***** and moan about Waluigi, a literal filler meme character and K.rool, a forgotten character, then yes, Zelda fans have all the right in the world to want more.
Tingle and Impa should've been playable since Smash 4 at the least.
I'll take what we got because I'd rather be happy than disappointed yet again.

 

[Ze Diglett]

5. Brawl. Ah Brawl, everyone hate's brawl, that's all there is to it.

*shuffles in chair a little*