Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[zauberdragon]

Custom moves would’ve been fine as long as there were no duplicates. That’s what really wound me up about it. Same with the mii costumes. It actually put me off customs a lot, I only used them when required to milk crazy orders and actually stand a chance in classic 9.0.

 

[BluePikmin11]

I legit think that a Resident Evil character could be one of those characters Sakurai could cover, only because it would cover the survival horror genre and that I have legit seen people highly request RE characters in the ballot. Though when it comes to RE, who is normally the most requested by fans? Leon or Jill?

 

[Untouch]

Sakurai just has a very evident bias against the west and series that are more popular in the west.
There's a reason why half of the DK music are just remixes of the same song.

 

[Jedisupersonic]

It still baffles me how unfair Sakurai is, dishing out characters to FE left and right yet LOZ is stuck with 3 originals in Link, Zelda, and Sheik, 2 clones in Young and Toon Link, and then the main villain up until just now has been a semi-clone of a character who's own moves were made up.

If LOZ doesn't get a character in Smash 5, that will have been THREE games and 17 years since it got a unique fighter.

I know it's not much but at least the Links are changing up from each other as time goes on.

Gotta take the small victories where you can in this case I feel.

Not sure if we'll get Impa, Tingle or a Champion. This time but I do hope.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Sakurai just has a very evident bias against the west and series that are more popular in the west.
There's a reason why half of the DK music are just remixes of the same song.

I mean
Little Mac
Takamaru's popularity in Japan not getting him a character role but an AT
Ridley's primary reason for becoming playable
Bayonetta

 

[92MilesPrower]

Out of da Blue: Robin and Lucina (July '14), Shulk (August '14), 2 in all.

Shulk was out of the blue for everywhere outside of Japan, his trailer first appeared in a Japanese Nintendo Direct and it then appeared on the website out of nowhere for everywhere else later that day.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

I legit think that a Resident Evil character could be one of those characters Sakurai could cover, only because it would cover the survival horror genre and that I have legit seen people highly request RE characters in the ballot. Though when it comes to RE, who is normally the most requested by fans? Leon or Jill?

Jill was the first to appear in Marvel vs Capcom so I'd assume her, Chris seems to be up there too

 

[Swamp Sensei]

And better yet, he still hasn't officially appeared over here in Western shores.

Roy has though.

Heroes gave him several alts for crying out loud.

Regardless, Roy is still REALLY popular in Japan.

 

[Lady Byakugan]

I have nothing against Impa, but one thing that I find a little irritating is that people who make a case for her act like she's the most iconic thing next to Link and Zelda.

The Young Impa we want in Smash might be recurring, but I wouldn't doubt if more people were way more familiar with Skull Kid, Midna, and possibly the Champions (AKA a bunch of one-shots).

No, I'd say the most iconic characters beyond the triforce trio and maybe Tingle would be each main console game's character of the day, like Skull Kid for MM or Midna for TP. With the Champions, I think Young Link with his 3 masks would be more suitable to represent their races than the champions themselves.

But Impa works more because she could easily be a clone of Sheik.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Brawl introduced by far the best content in the series imo, at least in terms of new characters, items, music and modes, it was amazing in that regard. I put over 1000 hours combined into it too, it was a blast to play with friends.

I doubt I'll ever go back to it though, because in reality it's extremely clunky and limits the player's freedom. It wasn't something I noticed when first playing it as I wasn't actually very good at Smash when it released, but after getting much better at Melee, and later PM, going back to Brawl it became incredibly clear to me just how bad it felt to play. For all the great content it introduced it failed at the absolutely most important aspect of a game, which is gameplay.

 

[Lady Byakugan]

I know it's not much but at least the Links are changing up from each other as time goes on.

Gotta take the small victories where you can in this case I feel.

Not sure if we'll get Impa, Tingle or a Champion. This time but I do hope.

Yeah, I'm glad Young Link is back, though it doesn't look like he's being changed up too much from Melee. I just hope his FS is Fierce Deity Link.

 

[Jedisupersonic]

I legit think that a Resident Evil character could be one of those characters Sakurai could cover, only because it would cover the survival horror genre and that I have legit seen people highly request RE characters in the ballot. Though when it comes to RE, who is normally the most requested by fans? Leon or Jill?

I think Leon would be the most requested plus he'd probably be best suited for trying to avoid the no firearms rule. With all his kicks and such.

As cool as I think a RE character would be, their playstyle might be a little too close to Snake for Sakurai to consider, if they're restricted from their over the top gun stuff.

 

[Idon]

Roy has though.

Heroes gave him several alts for crying out loud.

Regardless, Roy is still REALLY popular in Japan.

Let me rephrase then. His game and source apperance hasn't appeared on Western shores.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

I have nothing against Impa, but one thing that I find a little irritating is that people who make a case for her act like she's the most iconic thing next to Link and Zelda.

The young Impa we want in Smash might be recurring, but I wouldn't doubt if people were way more familiar with Skull Kid, Midna, and possibly the Champions (AKA a bunch of one-shots).



A lack of recent appearances is literally what causes obscurity. The longer a character goes without appearing in games, the fewer amount of people will be able to recognize said character.

Midna and Skull Kid are for sure more recognizable but I'd argue Impa is more important to the series overall, whether she's a young warrior or an old woman, Impa is often there as Princess Zelda's protector/caregiver. Maybe I'm biased but she feels like the next natural inclusion to me.

 

[Jedisupersonic]

Yeah, I'm glad Young Link is back, though it doesn't look like he's being changed up too much from Melee. I just hope his FS is Fierce Deity Link.

I meant more with how Link and Toon Link have changed from what Melee Link was in varying degrees, YL is more his own character now, my mistake for my poor wording.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

A lack of recent appearances is literally what causes obscurity. The longer a character goes without appearing in games, the fewer amount of people will be able to recognize said character.

A character doesn't need to be anywhere near as well-known as someone like Mario and Pac-Man to a general audience (or even as well-known as someone like Diddy Kong) to be popular among the general Smash fanbase (which is meaningfully distinct from being popular in niche Smash forums). Geno was noted by Sakurai to be a popular character among the "silent majority" of the Smash fanbase and his only major appearance is in one of Mario's lesser-known spin-off games which was released in 1996. Pit also got in Brawl due to popularity among the general Smash fanbase and his last major appearance in a decently well-selling game was in 1986.

K. Rool isn't a shoo-in but the argument that "he's too obscure" is a ridiculous argument both in terms of "chance" (since Smash has included plenty of obscure characters as newcomers) or in terms of whether or not he could be popular among a "silent majority" (you'd think Geno being acknowledged as a really popular character would have stopped this kind of ridiculous argument).

 

[dezeray112]

I legit think that a Resident Evil character could be one of those characters Sakurai could cover, only because it would cover the survival horror genre and that I have legit seen people highly request RE characters in the ballot. Though when it comes to RE, who is normally the most requested by fans? Leon or Jill?

Well, the Resident Evil series had played a part within Nintendo's history since Resident Evil 2 came out on the Nintendo 64. It's really tough to pick between Leon and Jill, since they are among the popular characters within the series.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

I say Jill. You have things from MvC she could do. There she didn't rely too heavily on guns.

Take that core concept. Have her duck out of the way from a zombie. Have a crow fly by, maybe include the Nemesis somehow.

I think the biggest hold back wouldn't be their guns, but the grotesque monsters they go up against. That's the important part of Resident Evil to represent. Not the guns.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Jill is more popular than Chris regardless.

 

[Cosmic77]

With the Champions, I think Young Link with his 3 masks would be more suitable to represent their races than the champions themselves.

Ehh… We already have Young Link back in Smash. I don't think we need another variation of Link just so we can get the other races. I'd like to get a legitimate Goron or Zora.

Midna and Skull Kid are for sure more recognizable but I'd argue Impa is more important to the series overall, whether she's a young warrior or an old woman, Impa is often there as Princess Zelda's protector/caregiver. Maybe I'm biased but she feels like the next natural inclusion to me.

And I get that, but I feel like that's the main reason she's getting so much support. "A one-shot wouldn't make as much sense as someone who appears in multiple Zelda games. That's why we need Impa".

Impa is great in her own right, but I feel like Sheik does an adequate job of representing her and the Sheikah. I'd rather get someone who could really stand out from the rest of the cast, even moreso now that Young Link is back.

 

[Jedisupersonic]

I say Jill. You have things from MvC she could do. There she didn't rely too heavily on guns.

Take that core concept. Have her duck out of the way from a zombie. Have a crow fly by, maybe include the Nemesis somehow.

I think the biggest hold back wouldn't be their guns, but the grotesque monsters they go up against. That's the important part of Resident Evil to represent. Not the guns.

Ridley showed up at the perfect time obviously!

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Jill should be more popular than Leon too.

Leon's popular because he's pretty, otherwise he's got the personality of dish soap. Granted he's got more personality than Chris.

Jill, Claire, and Ada always had the most personality IMO.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Brawl had one of the best video game soundtracks ever and SSB4's was underwhelming in comparison. That's why I'm happy that all the SSB5 remixes revealed so far have been really, really good. SSB4 only had a few that were really memorable to me, most of them being Animal Crossing and MegaMan remixes.

 

[KingBroly]

Question. In the Mario trailer on the Smash Bros. website, what is the fire stage they're on? It looks pretty generic. I'm thinking it could be Castle Siege (the Fire Emblem one from Brawl).

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Jill is more popular than Chris regardless.

As someone who's an expert in Resident Evil, and by that I mean 'deleted leftover save data of Resident Evil 4 on a second hand memory card I bought', allow to explain why you're wrong. Jill doesn't punch big ricks

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Ridley showed up at the perfect time obviously!

Ridley is different from a zombie who's parts are falling off, bites people, etc, etc.

And that's jut the base enemy of RE.

Throw in something like Nemesis who has tentacles that shoot from his hands and what not?

Hell, if Leon, think about the Licker, one of the more memorable monsters he goes up against in RE2. It's just a skinned creature showing it's muscle tissue and brain.

I don't know. RE monsters could raise the rating of the game if not done right.

 

[Cosmic77]

A character doesn't need to be anywhere near as well-known as someone like Mario and Pac-Man to a general audience (or even as well-known as someone like Diddy Kong) to be popular among the general Smash fanbase (which is meaningfully distinct from being popular in niche Smash forums). Geno was noted by Sakurai to be a popular character among the "silent majority" of the Smash fanbase and his only major appearance is in one of Mario's lesser-known spin-off games which was released in 1996. Pit also got in Brawl due to popularity among the general Smash fanbase and his last major appearance in a decently well-selling game was in 1986.

K. Rool isn't a shoo-in but the argument that "he's too obscure" is a ridiculous argument both in terms of "chance" (since Smash has included plenty of obscure characters as newcomers) or in terms of whether or not he could be popular among a "silent majority" (you'd think Geno being acknowledged as a really popular character would have stopped this kind of ridiculous argument).

You can use Geno as a counterargument when he actually gets in Smash. Until then, I say obscure characters who haven't appeared in recent years are at a huge disadvantage.

 

[Jedisupersonic]

Jill is more popular than Chris regardless.

The sad truth, Chris has always been my favorite. If he somehow got in Smash we'd have two Roger Craig Smith performances haha.

Ridley is different from a zombie who's parts are falling off, bites people, etc, etc.

And that's jut the base enemy of RE.

Throw in something like Nemesis who has tentacles that shoot from his hands and what not?

Hell, if Leon, think about the Licker, one of the more memorable monsters he goes up against in RE2. It's just a skinned creature showing it's muscle tissue and brain.

I don't know. RE monsters could raise the rating of the game if not done right.

Yeah I get what you mean, I was more joking.

 

[Omega Tyrant]

On the topic of Chrom, I don't see him happening at all. Not as a unique fighter, nor as clone.

Sakurai had concerns with the number of Fire Emblem characters before Corrin. Only reason why Corrin made it in the first place was because he would be used to promote an upcoming game, and because the development team convinced Sakurai that he'd be a unique fighter. Adding in Chrom as an Echo would go against both of these things.

Sakurai hasn't forgotten how many Fire Emblem characters there are, and I'm sure Sakurai is aware of the backlash over their staggering numbers. The only way I could see Sakurai adding any more FE characters in general would be if the series had substantial cuts, but everyone is back.

Echoes though don't play by the same rules; they require little developmental resources and are probably decided after the rest of the roster is decided, so their inclusion won't affect the inclusion of other characters, and thus aren't of much concern for overrepresentation. For an example that has happened, Sakurai didn't include Wario in Melee as a unique newcomer because of overrepresentation concerns with the Mario series, but still added Dr. Mario later on as a clone. So Chrom can still make it in as an Ike Echo despite the amount of other FE characters in the game.

However those overrepresentation concerns, combined with the timing of the project plan, makes it pretty certain to me that there won't be a FE newcomer this time that isn't an Echo.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Ada Wong is the best and most interesting Resident Evil character because we still don't know much about her. Her real name, whose side she's on, who she is working for, etc, etc.

But people sleep on her for some reason. Probably because outside of Resident Evil 6. She's pretty much after game side stuff.

 

[Jedisupersonic]

One last thing with Leon, if he ever got in. His final smash better involve his horrendous luck with vehicles, double points if it's a car or plane.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

One last thing with Leon, if he ever got in. His final smash better involve his horrendous luck with vehicles, double points if it's a car or plane.

This is just making me think of She Hulk in Marvel vs Capcom 3 where that car almost hits her and she decides ''You know what? I'm just gonna chuck this son of a ***** at your face instead."

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

Ehh… We already have Young Link back in Smash. I don't think we need another variation of Link just so we can get the other races. I'd like to get a legitimate Goron or Zora.



And I get that, but I feel like that's the main reason she's getting so much support. "A one-shot wouldn't make as much sense as someone who appears in multiple Zelda games. That's why we need Impa".

Impa is great in her own right, but I feel like Sheik does an adequate job of representing her and the Sheikah. I'd rather get someone who could really stand out from the rest of the cast, even moreso now that Young Link is back.

I don't entirely disagree, there's other characters that could be more different but Impa could easily be unique and different from the rest of the Zelda cast, using a monk like fighting style and magical abilities like she displays in Skyward Sword, possibly even incorporating the sheikah slate abilities too if they really wanted. Tbh I think we should get multiple Zelda newcomers.

 

[UserKev]

Brawl introduced by far the best content in the series imo, at least in terms of new characters, items, music and modes, it was amazing in that regard. I put over 1000 hours combined into it too, it was a blast to play with friends.

I doubt I'll ever go back to it though, because in reality it's extremely clunky and limits the player's freedom. It wasn't something I noticed when first playing it as I wasn't actually very good at Smash when it released, but after getting much better at Melee, and later PM, going back to Brawl it became incredibly clear to me just how bad it felt to play. For all the great content it introduced it failed at the absolutely most important aspect of a game, which is gameplay.

I dislike Brawl now. The game has a depressing feel to it and the soundtrack didn't age well for me personally.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

This is just making me think of She Hulk in Marvel vs Capcom 3 where that car almost hits her and she decides ''You know what? I'm just gonna chuck this son of a ***** at your face instead."

Brah she's trying to save your life and threw the car away. It landing on you was an accidental.

Though now that I'm saying it out loud I want more comedic Final Smashes

 

[Chandeelure]

Having Kirby and a realistic HD Resident Evil zombie in the same game would be funny.

 

[Cosmic77]

I don't entirely disagree, there's other characters that could be more different but Impa could easily be unique and different from the rest of the Zelda cast, using a monk like fighting style and magical abilities like she displays in Skyward Sword, possibly even incorporating the sheikah slate abilities too if they really wanted. Tbh I think we should get multiple Zelda newcomers.

Since Pokemon and Mario currently have 9 and 8 characters respectively, I'd be perfectly fine with Zelda getting two newcomers this time. Not sure what combination that would end up being, but if one of those characters is a Champion, I'd be content with just about anyone else.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Brah she's trying to save your life and threw the car away. It landing on you was an accidental.

Though now that I'm saying it out loud I want more comedic Final Smashes

I'm aware. She was my main in MvC3 afterall. You have no idea how much I love She Hulk.

Number 1 Marvel home girl for life.

 

[Shroob]

I'm still perplexed why they'd remove Diddy's tail whipping moves unless they had Dixie in mind.

Diddy's tail is a large part of his model and design space, so NOT using it to use moves seems very bizarre.

I may be reaching, but it honestly feels like Dixie is almost guaranteed because they felt the need to remove his tail whipping move, and Dixie being a clone/semi-clone is the only logical reasoning here.


That'd be like if Bowser didn't use his shell, or if Ridley didn't use HIS tail.

They're both large parts of the character's model, and a large part of character design space, so not using them is odd.

 

[RouffWestie]

The belief that a franchise's sales or size should correlate to its number of unique playable characters is really shallow, and I'm thankful it doesn't dictate how the roster is decided. Zelda's representation hits as many of the big titles and key characters in the franchise as possible. Adding anyone else would be super generous, but I can't humor the idea that Zelda is somehow getting the short end of the stick. That's just severely downplaying the developer's clear effort to fairly represent the series.