Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Imadethistoseealeak]

I'll throw in my predicted 7! I've had these for a while since I noticed the possibility of an aestehtically pleasing CSS. Which is totally a legitimate way to speculate.

Echoes
1. Impa
2. Isabelle (I'm not 100% sold their models will work with one another but I'm willing to bet Sakurai will try).

Unique Newcomers
3. DK Newcomer - Currently leaning toward King K. Rool
4. Gen 7 Pokemon - Leaning Toward Mimikyu, Decideueye and Inceniroar are next up.
5. Bandanna Dee
6. Rayman
7. Other Third Party - Either Vergeben is right and it's Simon, or it could be Geno due to Ballot and Sakurai.

Besides having Ridley already (and also the possibility of Mimikyu) I'd be content with this. But yea it's mostly because I already have Ridley lol

 

[Super Flygon]

The first three "characters of the day" were Inkling (Jun 12), Ridley (Jun 13), and Daisy (Jun 14)

Unless they just decided to skip the newbies to the beginning...

Forgot about those. Either way, it is interesting that the first 3 veterans showcased were also the first 3 Sakurai discussed changes to in the E3 presentation.

 

[Will]

I'm not sure about Isabelle, Sakurai didn't use BOTW Zelda because "she was more of a researcher". Isabelle's more of a supporter than a fighter, then again Villager's only in because Sakurai took back his original thought of him not being suited for battle. Maybe I'll be so wrong it isn't even real.

 

[Opossum]

I'm not sure about Isabelle, Sakurai didn't use BOTW Zelda because "she was more of a researcher". Isabelle's more of a supporter than a fighter, then again Villager's only in because Sakurai took back his original thought of him not being suited for battle. Maybe I'll be so wrong it isn't even real.

I think there's a significant difference there. With Zelda, she had a battle-ready option. Isabelle is only like that, and IMO she's too big of a character to skip completely. She's the one genuine all-star left IMO.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

If we're predicting seven newcomers (I kinda doubt that'll be the exact amount left to reveal), I'll go ahead and throw my hat in the ring.

1. King K. Rool
2. Another Mario character (leaning towards Paper Mario or Geno)
3. Another Kirby character (leaning towards Bandanna Waddle Dee)
4. Either a popular Gen III Pokemon (Blaziken, Sceptile, Gardevoir, etc.) or one of the Gen VII Pokemon that had its designs finalized first (Decidueye, Incineroar, Primarina, or Magearna)
5. A newcomer from an old and forgotten Nintendo series a la
6. A third party (probably Simon Belmont)
7. Another third party

 

[osby]

I'm not sure about Isabelle, Sakurai didn't use BOTW Zelda because "she was more of a researcher". Isabelle's more of a supporter than a fighter, then again Villager's only in because Sakurai took back his original thought of him not being suited for battle. Maybe I'll be so wrong it isn't even real.

I think it's possible Sakurai wanted to use a Zelda from a different game from Link.
Or Zelda team suggested it.
Or maybe they'd need a Zelda whose main outfit is more princess-y (or involves a dress)


I don't think "she's more a researcher" is the ONLY reason.

 

[KMDP]

I'm not sure about Isabelle, Sakurai didn't use BOTW Zelda because "she was more of a researcher". Isabelle's more of a supporter than a fighter, then again Villager's only in because Sakurai took back his original thought of him not being suited for battle. Maybe I'll be so wrong it isn't even real.

The thing about Villager is that everything he does pulls something from Animal Crossing, even if it's a non-standard usage of it (I'm looking at you Side-B).
The point you made about Isabelle still holds up.

 

[Fatmanonice]

I wonder how many people are upset that Charizard solo isn't playable.

No one because Pokemon Trainer losing fatigue and weaknesses and gaining the ability to switch on the fly mid combos and off stage are stupid huge buffs to the character.

Random thoughts:

-Impa as an echo of Sheik would make sense. Although I'd prefer her to fight with her naginata, I don't see it happening as it's her secondary weapon and we already have a character with an lol sized sword in the form of Cloud. The fact that they're trying to rep a big portion of the Zelda series with characters makes her a good fit too:

Link- BoW, the original, Zelda II
Zelda: ALTTP, ALBW
Sheik: OoT, BoW
Ganondorf: OoT
Toon Link: all the Toon games
Young Link: OoT, MM
Impa: SS, HW

-Sakurai played a lot with gender swapping in SSB4 and we already know it's happening again in this game with the Inklings. Captain Toad and Isabelle would probably have Toadette and Digsby respectively, creating more easy kill two birds with one stone scenarios.

-On that note, I do hope Olimar gets more captain ALTs. If they could do the Koopalings, I think they could do Brittany, Louie, Charlie, and the President too.

-I still agree on the Chrom as an echo fighter of Ike idea. Chrom's still prominent in Fire Emblem and I could see them cave like they did with Daisy. That said, I don't think we'll be getting any totally new FE reps this time around.

 

[Will]

I think there's a significant difference there. With Zelda, she had a battle-ready option. Isabelle is only like that, and IMO she's too big of a character to skip completely. She's the one genuine all-star left IMO.

The thing about Villager is that everything he does pulls something from Animal Crossing, even if it's a non-standard usage of it (I'm looking at you Side-B).
The point you made about Isabelle still holds up.

I guess that's true, but there's always another person from AC that crosses my mind.

Spoiler: Fools!

 

[Robert of Normandy]

In really weird news, the German box art of Smash Bros Ultimate has removed Yoshi to make room for the USK rating logo.

View attachment 149584

@Zinith Will not be happy.

Germany does not mess around when it comes to tax fraud, I guess.

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

I think it's possible Sakurai wanted to use a Zelda from a different game from Link.
Or Zelda team suggested it.
Or maybe they'd need a Zelda whose main outfit is more princess-y (or involves a dress)


I don't think "she's more a researcher" is the ONLY reason.

Yeaaaaa that seemed like more of a throw away response. I say that because Sakurai mentioned how he picked the designs he liked the best for the Zeldas characters in the tree house demonstration. (It's in one of the 4 player free for all's where someone was playing Zelda, I believe on Moray Towers).

So that might have been part of it. Because Zelda got so few changes to her Moveset I'm also thinking they didn't go with BOTW Zelda because her most common appearance is in pants. Sounds dumb but I bet it was easier to program the model and Moveset around another version of Zelda in a dress.

Anyway I do think that is a legitimate point against Isabelle. I'm just not sold that it is an absloute end to her chances.

 

[osby]

Predicted Seven:

1. Isabelle
2. Bandana Dee
3. Dixie Kong
4. Geno
5. Decidueye
6. Ashley
7. A guest fighter

 

[KMDP]

If I could just toot my own horn for a bit. I just uploaded a lot of Smash Stock images to the Newcomer Stock Icons thread.

If you're interested, check 'em out here.

Now, back to your regularly scheduled speculation.

 

[Opossum]

Seven newcomers thing? Seven newcomers thing.

1. Simon Belmont
2. Decidueye
3. Elma
4. Isabelle
5. Dixie Kong
6. Captain Toad
7. [Insert One Additional Echo Fighter, who alongside Daisy, Lucina, and Dark Pit, makes four total]

Chorus Kids would've been number eight.

 

[Will]

Oh cool I totally love the list trend of every 50 pages

1. Dark Samus (E)
2. Ashley
3. Funky Kong
4. Mach Rider
5. Geno or Paper Mario
6. Elma
7. Incineroar

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

-On that note, I do hope Olimar gets more captain ALTs. If they could do the Koopalings, I think they could do Brittany, Louie, Charlie, and the President too.

I don't believe we've seen any of Alph's alts yet so it's totally possible we get 4 or so Olimar alts and the rest are Captains. That would be very cool!

If I could just toot my own horn for a bit. I just uploaded a lot of Smash Stock images to the Newcomer Stock Icons thread.

If you're interested, check 'em out here.

Now, back to your regularly scheduled speculation.

And as the owner of that thread I encourage you to check out all the great work there! When I get home today I'll make sure to update it and include all of the new icons on the first page.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

My 7 would be:

1. Simon Belmont - Vergeben.
2. K. Rool - Most wanted character who isn't in by the Smash community, it's gotta be his time now.
3. Dixie Kong - Semi clone, DKC has enough about it to get two newcomers.
4. Chorus Men - I believe that they were planned for Smash 4, and I imagine Sakurai wants to revisit the idea as it's likely technical limitations that kept them out.
5. Echo Fighter #4 - Could be anyone out of Impa, Chrom, Dark Samus, Octoling and even Shadow.
6. Elma - Tough call between her, Ashley or Isabelle for the last first party spot, but I feel like she's the safest pick.
7. Geno - One of the biggest requests through the years, had his popularity acknowledged by Sakurai, and Square Enix being at the table from the start makes it a real possibility. Slight chance of Banjo taking this spot, but the project plan being finalized in late 2015 might be too early for the recent Microsoft+Nintendo love story.

 

[Darkraid]

I'm sorry for not catching up but why 7 newcomers? 7 newcomers and more echoes?

My take on the 7 is.

1) King k Rool
2) Impa - echo
3) Decidueye
4) Simon Belmont
5) Dark Samus - echo
6) Dixie Kong - echo
7) Shadow - echo

 

[Murlough]

Pretty sure I did this like 20 pages ago but sure:
1. Mimikyu (hE wOuLd MaKe A gReAt SuMmOn)(I'M NOT ANGRY! YOUR ALL ANGRY!)
2. Ashley
3. Kirby or the flying magic dude whos name has been forgotten
4. Shadow/Elma
5. K. Rool
6. Isabelle
7. Heihachi Mishima/Elma

 

[RandomAce]

Seven Newcomers?

1. Elma
2. Lycanroc
3. Rhythm Heaven Rep
4. Issac
5. King K. Rool
6. Sora?
7. Retro Pick

1-3 are your relevant characters. 4-6 are your ballot characters with 6 being a third party character most likely requested from the ballot. 7 is a retro character.

Tbh, I expect a couple more, excluding echoes. It’s not like you can do a lot with only seven newcomers.

 

[Deathcarter]

My predictions for 7 more newcomers:

1. Isabelle: THE breakout Nintendo character of the Wii U/3DS generation alongside Inklings.
2. Mimikyu: We're definitely getting a new Sun and Moon Pokémon 9 reps be damned and Mimikyu was clearly positioned to be a breakout hit.

3. Captain Toad: Had his own successful spinoff, appeared in the last 4 3D Mario's, and unlike regular Toad has a more specific theme for a moveset.
4. Dixie Kong/K. Rool: Either Dixie gets in due to Tropical Freeze + being historically popular or K. Rool gets in due to high performance in the ballot.
5. Ashley: Fan favorite character in Japan who's popularity has been acknowledged by both Nintendo and Sakurai.
6. Bandana Dee: Rising Kirby star with consistent appearance throughout last gen and is now essentially Kirby's Toad but with an established moveset.
7. Excite Biker: Top ten selling NES game, with renewed relevance through Mario Kart 8, and one of two viable retros remaining, the other being much less popular.

Honorary Mentions:
-Monita: Great choice for a surprise character but lacks the historical significance of and not much room for less known newcomers.
-Rhythm Heaven Rep: Solid choice but lacks current Western relevance. Last period of relevance in the West was 10 years ago.
-Elma: Solid choice but like Monita will be less prioritized than other more popular characters and would be old news by the time Ultimate comes out.
-Paper Mario: The series just doesn't seem to be considered a priority by Sakurai similar to how he treats all non-Kart Mario spinoffs.

 

[Will]

I'm sorry for not catching up but why 7 newcomers? 7 newcomers and more echoes?

It's just the new page trend fad

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Daisy is "unfitting" as an Echo because she uses Peach's signature moves although she does not use these in her own games.
Shadow would be unfitting as an Echo because he wouldn't use his own signature moves.

Daisy has Flower Power as her signature move and that's in there to the extent it is in most Mario games. Sure, she could summon a Flower Garden specifically, but it is not as omnipresent in her character as Shadow's Chaos Control or Dixie's hair or even her own general flower visuals

 

[RandomAce]

Has there been any new information on Smash yet of some kind?

 

[Ze Diglett]

I DEMAND FAD!

1. King K. Rool
2. Bandanna Dee
3. Geno
4. Impa (Echo)
5. Decidueye (or just "Gen 7 Rep" if I wanna be Wishiwashi about things)
6. Simon Belmont
7. Dixie Kong (Echo)

Reasoning for those guys and more are in the link in my sig, if you care.

 

[Will]

Daisy is "unfitting" as an Echo because she uses Peach's signature moves although she does not use these in her own games.

DAISY HAS A GAME?

 

[PsySmasher]

I guess I'll give my 7 newcomers

1. Impa (echo)
2. Medusa (echo)
3. King K. Rool (or Dixie Kong)
4. Ashley
5. Bandana Dee
6. Elma
7. Simon Belmont

Honorable Mentions go to Dark Samus and Rex & Pyra

 

[Luminario]

-Sakurai played a lot with gender swapping in SSB4 and we already know it's happening again in this game with the Inklings. Captain Toad and Isabelle would probably have Toadette and Digsby respectively, creating more easy kill two birds with one stone scenarios.

Now Digsby as an alt is an idea I haven't heard before. I like it, they're twins so share exactly the same body type and he's pretty likeable as a character himself.

Since everyone else is doing this 7up newcomers:
Isabelle
Ashley
Mimikyu (looking at who's pushed it's probably Mimi, Lycanroc, or Incineroar.)
DK Newcomer (I wanna say it's gonna be Dixie, but I have a feeling it's K.Rool. If there's only 7 slots then I highly doubt we'd get both)
Elma
Rayman (With how all 3rd parties came back I won't expect more than a couple of extra 3rd parties on the base roster, but Rayman seems the most likeliest if the Ballot is to be taken into account with such limited slots, at least imo cause he seems like someone a lot of casual players would vote for)
Rhythm Heaven/Bandana Dee/some echo. It's kinda hard to choose one, they've all got reason to be there.

I think we're gonna get more than 7 though. I wouldn't say they'd limit it due to roster symmetry.

 

[Troykv]

This new 7 newcomers trend is about unique characters right?

 

[WeirdChillFever]

DAISY HAS A GAME?
View attachment 149621

Mario Tennis might have Mario in the title, but we all know the spin-off duo of Daisy and Waluigi runs it.

 

[ratmon19]

Remaining seven bias choices
1.king k rool/dixie
2.ashley
3.geno
4.medusa
5.lip
6.mimikyu/decidueye
7. Chorus kids

Actual predictions
1.king k rool
2.simon belmont
3.bandana see
4. Rhythm heaven rep/isabelle
5.elma
6.dark shamus echo
7.shadow echo

Sadly not to fond of the echo

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

This new 7 newcomers trend is about unique characters right?

Not necessarily. The 7 trend is based off the CSS and we are currently led to believe that echoes take up a spot, so that's 7 more including echoes.

But you can just have fun with it and do whatever of course.

 

[Murlough]

How many semi-clones did we get for the first time in four? I remember Lucina and Dark Pit were echos we got so thats 2 of those but I can't think of any semi-clones.

I guess we could count Roy due to his significant changes (do not start this again with me. Even Sakurai knows he isn't an echo).

 

[Slavic]

1) Africa
2) Antarctica
3) Asia
4) Australia
5) Europe
6) North America
7) Contraversial choice but I'm also gonna put South America on this list.

...fine
1) Captain Toad
2) King K. Rool
3) Dixie Kong
4) Bandana Dee
5) Elma
6) Impa
7) Rayman

 

[papagenos]

1. Simon Belmont
2.K Rool
3.Dixie Kong
4.Waddle Dee
5.Geno
6.Mach Rider
7.Chrom (echo)

thats my guess.

Ashley, Impa, Chorus Men, Pokemon Rep, Captain Toad, Elma, Skull Kid, Rayman, Banjo kazooie

are my runner ups.

Shovel Knight, Shantae, Isaac, Paper Mario, Isabelle, Lip, Chibi Robo, Medusa, Funky Kong, Excite Biker, Ray, Wonder Red, Heihachi, Lloyd, Dillon, Crash, Sora, Spyro, Tails, Dark Samus, Shadow, Ken, Louie

are the only other characters I'm actually considering have a shot at this point, and im highly doubtful of over half of them.

 

[Jedisupersonic]

DAISY HAS A GAME?
View attachment 149621

Uhhh yeah totally! it was Super Princess Daisy on the Wonderswan Japan only, I'm totally not making this up off the top of my head... uhh... I already kinda made this sound incredibly dumb.

 

[kirbstr]

Has there been any new information on Smash yet of some kind?

I don't know how caught up you are, but source gaming recently translated an article that Sakurai wrote in which he stated that the game plan was finished in 2015. This lead a lot of people to write off characters such as Rex and Pyra, Springman, and any Gen 7 pokemon due to the development time.

 

[PlayerOneTyler]

I'll bite. Though, I think it's weird that we're holding onto this "7 more" thing. Remember FINAL 5? You remember.

1. DK Newcomer: I'm willing to bet money on Dixie Kong (as a unique fighter), but I can see King K Rool coming back from the shadows of DKCR / TF. If neither of those, I can see Funky Kong being an easy Echo of DK.
2. Elma: My mac autocorrected to Elmo LOL. But I digress. I feel like she's a no-brainer considering Sakurai's love for Xenoblade, and X being the most recent game when Ultimate began development.
3. Pokemon Newcomer: I don't know why, but I just can't see them passing up a newcomer for this series. Maybe it's because we've gotten at least one with every new installment of Smash and I'm stuck on the "pattern"? Either way, I feel like we'll see Decidueye, Incineroar, or Mimikyu. Highly doubtful about Lycanroc for some reason. If we don't see a new Pokemon rep, I can totally see an 8th Gen once that info rolls out for DLC.
4. Simon Belmont, Rayman, or some other 3rd party: Just holding onto the Verg rumor. If it ain't true, I feel like we're still going to get a new 3rd party, no doubt about it. Rayman is a huge possibility considering Nintendo's becoming buddy-buddy with Ubisoft. This is also our chance for some GRANT KIRKHOPE MUSIC.
5. Isabelle: Maybe I'm just biased. I'd love her as an Echo of Villager.
6. Impa: Also my bias talking. I'd prefer her Hyrule Warriors form with no Echo ties to Sheik, but I can see them going the Echo route with her Skyward Sword look.
7. Chorus Kids or Bandana Dee: Honestly this is a filler because I just don't heckin' know what to think. Chorus Kids could be a pick up of where they left off in Smash 4, while Bandana Dee caters to Sakurai's bias. This could also go to another Echo like Chrom or Dark Samus.

This was... harder than I thought.

 

[Untouch]

Unique Characters
1. K Rool -> Just highly requested by the community, if not Dixie Kong, I don't think we'll get both.
2. Simon Belmont ->Though I'm starting to get reluctant, Vergeben did get some things right.
3. Chorus Kids -> It's pretty evident they were cut relatively late into Smash 4's development, maybe for performance issues? Could be any RH character.
4. Excite Bike -> Any retro character, I don't know, he seems fit for it.
5. Banjo Kazooie -> Not really entirely sold on this, but Microsoft has been getting close to nintendo and the idea has been pushed.

Echo Characters/Semi Clones
6. Chrom -> Haven't seen Robin's FS yet and there's no other FE characters to put in, as an Ike echo (was even joked about in Smash 4).
7. Jeanne -> I don't know, are we considering Bayonetta 3rd party still, it's basically nintendo IP at this point and Jeanne as a Bayo echo would make sense.

 

[Troykv]

Not necessarily. The 7 trend is based off the CSS and we are currently led to believe that echoes take up a spot, so that's 7 more including echoes.

But you can just have fun with it and do whatever of course.

Okay then; I'll do a bit basic with this

1.- King K. Rool
2.- Elma
3.- Isabellee
4.- Bandana Waddle Dee
5.- Something Pokémon
6.- Ashley
7.- Simon Belmont