Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Cosmic77]

Daisy might wind up being the only echo fighter because, aside from Melee, Smash games usually don't add too many new clone characters and usually put more effort in making returning ones more unique.

Smash 64- Luigi
Melee- Doc, Ganon, Falco, Lad Link, Pichu, Roy
Brawl- Lucas, Wolf
SSB4- Lucina, Grit

If the 7 more newcomers thing winds up being true, I think they'll forego another easy +1 and make a character more unique ala a semi or Luigified clone like my Dixie Kong suggestion yesterday.

I'd be ecstatic if Sakurai came out and revealed exactly how many more Echo Fighters we'd get.

Seriously, it's annoying as heck to see clones get more attention on Smashboards than actual unique newcomers. I just wish people would stop acting like a simple name change is going to pave the way for three or four more clones.

 

[Jubileus57]

I'm just hoping that my Okami theory holds true when August comes around.

A Nintendo Direct + the stated release of Okami HD on Switch now being available (if the direct is August 9) = A (Slight) possible chance of Amaterasu coming to Smash as a newcomer. Outside of DLC, it would be Ammy's best chance at joining Smash and everything would pair up perfectly... Almost too perfectly. If it doesn't happen, that's fine its a hope of mine, not an expectation and there's still the hope of her making it to DLC.

Why not throw the announcement of a an Okami sequel on switch à la Bayonetta? THAT would be the hypest reveal of them all.

 

[92MilesPrower]

I now have a signature, as well as a masterpost containing every single codec I have written to date that can be found within my signature. I promised to make the masterpost last night, but I forgot until this morning. In other words: Kept you waiting, huh?

Now for the obligatory preview for tomorrow's codec, which I promise won't be as plain as today's:

Mei Ling: It's even more adorable than I imagined!

Next up:

Edit: Not sure if my signature is showing up, but here's a link to the masterpost: https://smashboards.com/threads/make-a-codec-call-for-the-new-characters.455835/post-22150283

 

[P.Kat]

Why not throw the announcement of a an Okami sequel on switch à la Bayonetta? THAT would be the hypest reveal of them all.

You mean a sequel to Okamiden? I'd love it if they did that, and just surprise us one time. Ammy's character reveal or not, August is looking to be pretty interesting

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Something I've been thinking about. Obviously this is the greatest roster in the history of Smash. Obviously, the title of "Ultimate" makes it seem as if this is "THE" Smash game. With a title like Ultimate, and a roster of every fighter in the series' history, if this roster isn't ported and built upon for further titles, no title with stand up to this one.

This truly feels like the base game for years to come.

That said, there are a lot of people talking about DLC for this game. I'm starting to think DLC is going to be treated differently for this game. Considering the title of the game, and the direction that Nintendo is heading I think we might see Smash turned into a platform.

By this I mean, characters will be added over time. We may get a smaller than expected roster (some people expected far over 10 ), but I think we'll see that remedied over the timespan of a few years. I think we'll get Spring Man this way, and if not on the base roster, Rex and Pyra. I think the latter are looking good to be in at some point simply because Sakurai loved XC2, and there's evidently a tweet from Skye Bennet about a "project" she can't talk about, but is excited for.

This isn't to say this is the "last" Smash game. I simply think this is a turning point in the series in terms of cuts. I don't know if we'll ever see cuts again. I also see Smash turning into the next Splatoon or ARMS, with content updated over time.

 

[Pakky]

Something I've been thinking about. Obviously this is the greatest roster in the history of Smash. Obviously, the title of "Ultimate" makes it seem as if this is "THE" Smash game. With a title like Ultimate, and a roster of every fighter in the series' history, if this roster isn't ported and built upon for further titles, no title with stand up to this one.

This truly feels like the base game for years to come.

That said, there are a lot of people talking about DLC for this game. I'm starting to think DLC is going to be treated differently for this game. Considering the title of the game, and the direction that Nintendo is heading I think we might see Smash turned into a platform.

By this I mean, characters will be added over time. We may get a smaller than expected roster (some people expected far over 10 ), but I think we'll see that remedied over the timespan of a few years. I think we'll get Spring Man this way, and if not on the base roster, Rex and Pyra. I think the latter are looking good to be in at some point simply because Sakurai loved XC2, and there's evidently a tweet from Skye Bennet about a "project" she can't talk about, but is excited for.

This isn't to say this is the "last" Smash game. I simply think this is a turning point in the series in terms of cuts. I don't know if we'll ever see cuts again. I also see Smash turning into the next Splatoon or ARMS, with content updated over time.

Personally with the state of things and how the Switch and like how you said with ARMS and Splatoon it feels like the IDEAL system for fighting games and most competitive games really being that you can practice and lab test at anytime. It makes sense for this to be a platform that is simply added to rather than just another entry in the series.

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

>Ray, Arle and Magolor are among top choices
This pleases me.

I know you're just commenting off something else, but I do want to point out that the source Gaming Japan vote thing was only based off around 100 voters I believe (double checking).

That's a super innacurate representation of an entire country. Shouldn't be taken as any form of evidence.

(Edit sorry Murlough idk how I accidently quoted you lol)

So, if we get a max of 7 more newcomers, this would be how our roster would be aligned, barring the top row getting any echo fighters.

I'm not sure if we'll get exactly 7 more, and DLC will screw this up royally, but 71 characters, 75 with Miis and Transformations, I'd be more than okay with it.View attachment 149528


In fact, I'd argue that this WILL be out final roster count.

They're going to want to keep the original 12 together, especially since this game is about Smash's history.

Dlc won't mess with it if we get 12 dlc fighters, which is absolutely possible if we see long term (multiple years) dlc. This is kinda what I'm expecting.

Is there anyone here who still think Spring man has a chance to be playable in the base roster?

Sadly no . It was already low chances but with the project plan being dated 2015, I'd say ARMS was too early in development and was too new an IP. I'm fairly certain a character will make it to dlc though. My hope is a ARMS bundle with Springman and a Ribbon Girl echo, a stage, and most importantly the music! Also maybe a Byte assist trophy. That would be cute lol.

 

[KMDP]

Obviously, the title of "Ultimate" makes it seem as if this is "THE" Smash game.

Friendly reminder to all that the Japanese name of Super Smash Bros. Ultimate is 大乱闘スマシュブラザーズSPECIAL (Dairantō Smash Brothers Special/Super Smash Bros. Special). No "Ultimateness" implied.

 

[Cosmic77]

Something I've been thinking about. Obviously this is the greatest roster in the history of Smash. Obviously, the title of "Ultimate" makes it seem as if this is "THE" Smash game. With a title like Ultimate, and a roster of every fighter in the series' history, if this roster isn't ported and built upon for further titles, no title with stand up to this one.

This truly feels like the base game for years to come.

That said, there are a lot of people talking about DLC for this game. I'm starting to think DLC is going to be treated differently for this game. Considering the title of the game, and the direction that Nintendo is heading I think we might see Smash turned into a platform.

By this I mean, characters will be added over time. We may get a smaller than expected roster (some people expected far over 10 ), but I think we'll see that remedied over the timespan of a few years. I think we'll get Spring Man this way, and if not on the base roster, Rex and Pyra. I think the latter are looking good to be in at some point simply because Sakurai loved XC2, and there's evidently a tweet from Skye Bennet about a "project" she can't talk about, but is excited for.

This isn't to say this is the "last" Smash game. I simply think this is a turning point in the series in terms of cuts. I don't know if we'll ever see cuts again. I also see Smash turning into the next Splatoon or ARMS, with content updated over time.

Cuts are gonna happen again at some point. It's just not feasible to get 75 or 80 tweaked veterans in addition to several newcomers.

Sooner or later, Sakurai will have to start trimming the fat from the roster.

 

[AlphaSSB]

So, if we get a max of 7 more newcomers, this would be how our roster would be aligned, barring the top row getting any echo fighters.

I'm not sure if we'll get exactly 7 more, and DLC will screw this up royally, but 71 characters, 75 with Miis and Transformations, I'd be more than okay with it.View attachment 149528


In fact, I'd argue that this WILL be out final roster count.

They're going to want to keep the original 12 together, especially since this game is about Smash's history.

Put on your tinfoil hats, because I've got a long-shot theory. Although I know the CSS doesn't impact roster creation, I went ahead and recreated the roster based on the website. With Pokemon Trainer and Mii Fighters taking one slot each, I can make five full rows of thirteen, without any blank slots for newcomers. 68 fighters total.

However, six rows of twelve would leave seven slots open for newcomers, for 75 fighters total. This would also leave the original twelve starting roster at the top. It's a long-shot, but I think seven more unrevealed fighters, clones or not, may be the sweet spot. There's five full months in-between now and the December launch, so if what I'm calling the "Seven Slot Theory" holds up, then maybe we'll see five more newcomers across each month, with two of those months showing an Echo fighter. Perhaps from the same series the newcomer they're revealed with is from?

Like I said, it's a long-shot, but something about it just feels right to me. Sakurai was hoping we weren't expecting too many newcomers, and so with Inklings, Ridley, and five more non-clone newcomers, that leaves seven total. Not too many, I'd say. I don't think Sakurai considers Echos as new fighters, either, seeing as how they don't have their own numbered slots on the website.

Or maybe I'm completely wrong, and just driven by my OCD of wanting a full CSS.

Yeah, the 7-Slot Theory has been a theory I've been going with for a while now. Our rosters even look the same, ha.

Spoiler: 7 Slot Theory Roster

Even though the CSS itself really doesn't impact roster creation, leaving the original 12 at the top, then unlocking more characters along the way seems plausible. With the last slot being the random, there would be seven remaining slots for possible newcomers. There's five full months between now and release, so we could possibly see a newcomer in July, August, September, October, and November. The remaining two could be revealed along side others if they're from the same series, are 'Echo' fighters, or if there's a special event that calls for 3 reveals at once.

 

[Jetsurge]

Cuts are gonna happen again at some point. It's just not feasible to get 75 or 80 tweaked veterans in addition to several newcomers.

Sooner or later, Sakurai will have to start trimming the fat from the roster.

Stares at Corrin

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

Yeah, the 7-Slot Theory has been a theory I've been going with for a while now. Our rosters even look the same, ha.

Spoiler: 7 Slot Theory Roster

Even though the CSS itself really doesn't impact roster creation, leaving the original 12 at the top, then unlocking more characters along the way seems plausible. With the last slot being the random, there would be seven remaining slots for possible newcomers. There's five full months between now and release, so we could possibly see a newcomer in July, August, September, October, and November. The remaining two could be revealed along side others if they're from the same series, are 'Echo' fighters, or if there's a special event that calls for 3 reveals at once.

Or they could be kept secret until the games release.

Can't wait for our aesthetically pleasing CSS screen to be debunked

but for real though 10 newcomers for this game plus all returning veterans is absloutely good with me

 

[Fatmanonice]

In the grand scheme of things, it's hard to tell what Sakurai means by telling us to not expect "too many" newcomers because of how he has acted in the past. Melee was originally supposed to have only seven but Zelda and the six clones we're pretty much added fairly late because he figured fans would be pissed at the final number. I recall him saying something similar with Brawl too and then we still wound up with 18 newcomers. I also remember how a lot of grounded speculators at the time suggested anything above 35 in all would be super generous and we got 36, technically 39 in all. For those keeping score at home:

Smash 64- 12
Melee- 14
Brawl- 18 (16 if you count PT as 1)
SSB4- 21 (17 before DLC)

I guess it's a good thing that we're being really conservative though but I think Sakurai's statements have historically been to people who think each Smash game is going to have a 20+ jump. If you average the low-ball numbers, you get about 14 which is still three less than SSB4'S base roster and still conservative in comparison. I dunno. I feel like he tries to condition us to have low expectations to ease potential butthurt.

 

[AlphaSSB]

Or they could be kept secret until the games release.

Can't wait for our aesthetically pleasing CSS screen to be debunked

but for real though 10 newcomers for this game plus all returning veterans is absloutely good with me

True, they could be kept secret, but I don't see us being kept in the dark all the way until release. Maybe a few clones may be kept secret, but I think we've still got a few reveals ahead of launch.

Judging by Smash 4's previous roster, I wouldn't be surprised if the final CSS end up uneven. Only time will tell.

 

[KMDP]

In the grand scheme of things, it's hard to tell what Sakurai means by telling us to not expect "too many" newcomers because of how he has acted in the past. Melee was originally supposed to have only seven but Zelda and the six clones we're pretty much added fairly late because he figured fans would be pissed at the final number. I recall him saying something similar with Brawl too and then we still wound up with 18 newcomers. I also remember how a lot of grounded speculators at the time suggested anything above 35 in all would be super generous and we got 36, technically 39 in all. For those keeping score at home:

Smash 64- 12
Melee- 14
Brawl- 18 (16 if you count PT as 1)
SSB4- 21 (17 before DLC)

I guess it's a good thing that we're being really conservative though but I think Sakurai's statements have historically been to people who think each Smash game is going to have a 20+ jump. If you average the low-ball numbers, you get about 14 which is still three less than SSB4'S base roster and still conservative in comparison. I dunno. I feel like he tries to condition us to have low expectations to ease potential butthurt.

A notion I have conveyed more than once on this very thread!

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

In the grand scheme of things, it's hard to tell what Sakurai means by telling us to not expect "too many" newcomers because of how he has acted in the past. Melee was originally supposed to have only seven but Zelda and the six clones we're pretty much added fairly late because he figured fans would be pissed at the final number. I recall him saying something similar with Brawl too and then we still wound up with 18 newcomers. I also remember how a lot of grounded speculators at the time suggested anything above 35 in all would be super generous and we got 36, technically 39 in all. For those keeping score at home:

Smash 64- 12
Melee- 14
Brawl- 18 (16 if you count PT as 1)
SSB4- 21 (17 before DLC)

I guess it's a good thing that we're being really conservative though but I think Sakurai's statements have historically been to people who think each Smash game is going to have a 20+ jump. If you average the low-ball numbers, you get about 14 which is still three less than SSB4'S base roster and still conservative in comparison. I dunno. I feel like he tries to condition us to have low expectations to ease potential butthurt.

Earlier I made a post where I counted past returning veterans as newcomers and with that we are at 10 "new" characters( ) so expecting 7 or so more newcomers would make it a pretty average Smash roster. I agree that it's good the community is taking his stament to mean low expectations, the game already has so much that any extra surprises should feel great, instead of feeling dissapointment over not getting 15+ newcomers.

True, they could be kept secret, but I don't see us being kept in the dark all the way until release. Maybe a few clones may be kept secret, but I think we've still got a few reveals ahead of launch.

Judging by Smash 4's previous roster, I wouldn't be surprised if the final CSS end up uneven. Only time will tell.

Oh yeah there will defintely be more reveals. I totally think if there are any hidden seceret characters they will be echos. Mayyyybe a surprise retro or something.

 

[RileyXY1]

I think that the majority of the newcomers will be echo fighters.

 

[Pakky]

I think that the majority of the newcomers will be echo fighters.

But why?

 

[Deleted member]

I actually think we're only getting 2 more Echo Fighters at most.
I don't think Sakurai wants to bloat the roster with them, given that he knows how much people dislike them.

 

[RileyXY1]

But why?

They take much less development time to create, especially considering they spent a lot of time to bring back everyone.

 

[Dragoncharystary]

So if 7 more newcomers is the current theory, gonna try predicting who they could be.
K. Rool - Enough has been said on this one.
Dixie - Semi-Clone of Diddy
Rayman - Only third party rep at this time. Don't know why people are still talking about Simon.
Bandanna Dee - Fan demand and also just makes a lot of sense based on becoming arguably the second most important character in the Kirby series right now.
Chorus Kids - Sakurai deciding to take another crack at the Rhythm Heaven character idea in part due to people clamoring for it after the Gematsu leak.
Shadow - Not an echo but more of a Dr. Mario type clone of Sonic.
Dark Samus - Semi-Clone of Samus.

Couple of afterthoughts: I didn't include anymore echoes. I definitely think people are making echoes out to be a way bigger deal then they are and Sakurai will want to keep the number of echoes only at 3 as to not make the roster look too lazy. Anyway characters that narrowly missed the mark were Ashley and Isabelle. The last spot was between them and Chorus Kids and I went with Chorus Kids simply because they represent a new IP. That last spot could be swapped with one of the other two in the future though.

Edit: Completely forgot a Gen 7 Pokemon. Don't know which one it could be but once my mind is set on which Pokemon, I'll probably swap that out with Chorus Kids.

 

[Pakky]

They take much less development time to create, especially considering they spent a lot of time to bring back everyone.

True but that doesn't mean they'll be the majority of what's new.

 

[Omega Tyrant]

This whole thing with "don't expect too many newcomers" reminds me of shortly after Smash 4's unveiling, where Sakurai said in an interview that "newcomers aren't the focus", "we can't just make a roster of 50 characters and call it a good game", "we're reaching the upper limit of what's feasible", and "a change in direction may be needed". I remember so many people panicking over what that implied for the roster, and thinking that Smash 4's roster was not only going to get a lot less newcomers than Brawl, but that the roster was going to be smaller. Even when the amount of confirmed characters surpassed 30 pre-release, with many veterans still unconfirmed with months to go, there were still people thinking the roster was going to be smaller than Brawl's. Yet when Smash 4 released, we had 15 very unique newcomers, alongside Dark Pit, Lucina, and Dr. Mario's return, with only 6 cuts, for a roster of 51 characters (49 if you want to not count Dark Pit/Lucina), which was inline with the expansion in Brawl. Additionally, this was with Smash 4 having the huge development sink of having to make the game for two very different systems simultaneously, and having to make the jump to HD (limiting asset reuse and introducing other problems that jumping to HD brings).

At face value, I'm just going to take what Sakurai said to mean don't expect as much or more newcomers than what Brawl and Smash 4 got, as it just looks like another statement to temper the wild expectations that come with each Smash game, which means around 10 or so unique newcomers is still reasonable.

 

[CodakTheWarrior]

When people suggest sandbag for smash they are joking right? Because if people are serious about it I'm going to be sad and a little scared.

I don't think it's likely at all, but, as others have said, I do think it would be the perfect joke character to end the series's with. You gotta admit it would cool if he used master/crazy hand for his smashes and if master core ripped out of his body for his final smash. He'd probably be the best joke character of the series honestly.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Come to think of it, we were really conservative with Smash 4 too because Gematsu was pretty much taken as absolute truth up until a few months before the game came out. To those who are new, this rumor had the following as newcomers:

-Villager
-Megaman
-Wii Fit
-Little Mac
-A new Pokemon
-Palutena
-Pac-Man
-Miis
-Shulk
-Chrom
-Chorus Men

We would later learn that this list came from really early on in the game's development and I wouldn't be surprised if we're in the same situation again. I feel like why Ver... However you spell it, mentioned Ridley and Simon because it would have fit past patterns. New third party characters have technically been announced for Smash at E3 in 2006, 2013, 2014, and 2015 but this time it didn't happen for whatever reason. I feel like that why this guy is keeping his mouth shut about the other 7 because, historically speaking, at least one is probably wrong and the final product will have characters that weren't part of the initial plans like Bowser Jr and Rosalina in Smash 4.

 

[Untouch]

I see a lot of people treating the veterans as if they aren't new characters.
They have probably taken equal amount of effort to add compared to new characters, even the semi-clones like wolf and young link.

 

[Pakky]

I see a lot of people treating the veterans as if they aren't new characters.
They have probably taken equal amount of effort to add compared to new characters, even the semi-clones like wolf and young link.

True but that would be they have been reworked, you still see a lot of old stuff from Melee in

And a lot of guys got new stuff but I wouldn't call them new characters

Just because you give your car a tune up doesn't make it 'New' better, but not new.

 

[KMDP]

I see a lot of people treating the veterans as if they aren't new characters.
They have probably taken equal amount of effort to add compared to new characters, even the semi-clones like wolf and young link.

After remaking Dr. Mario, Mewtwo, Lucas, and Roy; I think Sakurai was able to make a conservative estimate about how long the returning vets of this game would take, and would have been able to factor it in to the plan for SSBU.

In fact, he may even have been working on them before even submitting the project plan, if it was his plan from the start.

 

[AlphaSSB]

It's hard to guess how many newcomers and clones we'll be guessing, especially when you try to fit the ratio across seven more fighters. I do agree with Lampy though, and I think we'll probably see two more at most.

If I had to guess seven:

Dixie Kong - Unfortunately, as either a pure clone of Diddy Kong or as a semi-clone of him. I think there's too much potential there for Sakurai to pass up. I can easily see a few specials, smashes, and tilts be changed to use her hair as a weapon. Runner-up for this position would be King K. Rool, for sure.

Impa - Specifically as a Sheik clone. I think the Zelda cast having designs being spread across different installments really open up the doors for Impa to appear based on her Skyward Sword appearance. Runner-ups for this position would be Skull Kid and Urbosa.

Decidueye - Based off concept art alone, I think Sakurai would give Decidueye a shot. He's a starter, which I do believe gives him an edge, not to fulfill the starter trio, but because starters are easy to recognize. Runner-up would be Lycanroc, especially if GameFreak planned on promoting Lycanroc and its Dusk form from its conception.

Elma - With how well Shulk's inclusion was received, and how well Xenoblade is doing, I'd be surprised if we didn't see a Xenoblade newcomer. Paired with the timing of the game's plan, and that model figure Sakurai picked up a while back, I think Elma is already in. Runner-up would be Rex and Pyra if Monolith Soft already had their designs planned, knew the release date for XC2 would align with Smash Ultimate's projected release, and pushed for them.

Isabelle - Possibly as a Villager Echo, I'm afraid, but she definitely has her merits to warrant her getting in with a unique moveset. She's the face of Animal Crossing now, and has crossed over alongside Villager in Mario Kart. I think she absolutely has a chance to make it as playable, unless she's been deconfirmed already and I've yet to learn of it. No runner-ups for this position, with Tom Nook deconfirmed.

Geno - Sakurai has expresses knowledge of Geno's popularity, and he was planned for, I believe Brawl, but couldn't be done at the time. I think him making it as a Mii Costume in Smash 4 was definitely a good sign for him, and with Cloud returning, I wouldn't be surprised of Geno was promoted. If Geno's ever going to make it as playable, I'd say its now. Unless Sakurai thinks Geno's better off as a Mii Costume or can't come up with a moveset for him.

Simon Belmont - With Snake back, and Bomberman as an Assist Trophy, I wouldn't be surprised if he went out and managed to get Simon Belmont on board. Sakurai has a history with Castlevania, and I think he may just seize the opportunity of working with Konami again to add him in. Plus, we've got Ryu AND Mega Man from Capcom, as well as Sonic AND Bayonetta from Sega. Snake AND Simon isn't out of the question.

 

[NintenRob]

I like the idea of having the original 12 stand be the top row of characters, but I'd rather have every franchise grouped together as usual instead of chronological like in the demo

Curious as to how they'll handle the Mii though. Will they be at the end again? Will we be able to play as them through random?

 

[CaptainAmerica]

True but that would be they have been reworked, you still see a lot of old stuff from Melee in

And a lot of guys got new stuff but I would call them new characters

Just because you give your car a tune up doesn't make it 'New' better, but not new.

Filetypes, though. You may be able to tune up an old car, but if you go to the junkyard and get an old frame and need to rebuild the entire motor, that's more than just popping over to Maaco and getting a paint job.

Brawl is now 10 years old, and Melee's even older. I have a feeling that Pichu and YL were made with Pika and Sm4sh Link assets rather than porting from Melee just because it would be easier.

 

[Cosmic77]

I see a lot of people treating the veterans as if they aren't new characters.
They have probably taken equal amount of effort to add compared to new characters, even the semi-clones like wolf and young link.

In what world would Wolf and Young Link take just as long to create as Inklings and Ridley?

Clones aside, veterans already have an established moveset. When adding these guys in Smash, it's like looking at a drawing and trying to copy it by tracing, making a few changes here and there to make it look better. With actual newcomers, you have to sit down and create a moveset from scratch, implement that moveset into the game, tweak it, and balance the character.

Needless to say, newcomers require a lot more meticulous work than veterans.

 

[Arcadenik]

So, if we get a max of 7 more newcomers, this would be how our roster would be aligned, barring the top row getting any echo fighters.

I'm not sure if we'll get exactly 7 more, and DLC will screw this up royally, but 71 characters, 75 with Miis and Transformations, I'd be more than okay with it.View attachment 149528


In fact, I'd argue that this WILL be out final roster count.

They're going to want to keep the original 12 together, especially since this game is about Smash's history.

7 more newcomers sound about right. 6 months to go... and 7 more newcomers... hmmm... what if we get 6 unique newcomers and 1 new Echo Fighter?

 

[Murlough]

I'd be ecstatic if Sakurai came out and revealed exactly how many more Echo Fighters we'd get.

Seriously, it's annoying as heck to see clones get more attention on Smashboards than actual unique newcomers. I just wish people would stop acting like a simple name change is going to pave the way for three or four more clones.

Thank you! Ever since the E3 event I feel like the primary discussion has been about echo fighters as if they are somehow more exciting than what they are. People DO realize they are asking for more Dark Pit's right? Why is this suddenly exciting?

 

[Deleted member]

Seven newcomers, eh?

Still banking on a Gen 7 mon, either Decidueye, Incineroar, or Mimikyu. This is a Greninja situation, so I think Sakurai will just choose whoever he deems to be the most unique. I can see Lycanroc being suggested by TPCi, but rejected due to his concept art not having enough detail for Sakurai to work with.

Also I'm pretty confident that K. Rool did well in the ballot. I've seen good arguments for why he's not in yet or why not many people know him, but I'm still convinced that the Mii costume was made because Sakurai wanted to save him for Ultimate.

Elma seems likely due to being the only character that matches the description of the mech toy that Sakurai bought, and Xenoblade X's timing.

I'm 100% sure we'll see at least one third party newcomer in the base game (that isn't Geno). The question is who.

If we get a total of 7 then I'm convinced that they will all be from the ballot, but I'm not gonna guess who did well in the ballot since I have nothing to go off of.
Edit: 1-2 of them could be echoes i guess

 

[92MilesPrower]

Seven other newcomers, eh? I'll take a shot at it:
1. King K. Rool/Dixie Kong: As much as I'd like to see both in the game, I have this feeling deep down that we'll only get one of the two. I'd be very disappointed if Dixie ended up as an echo of Diddy, and I doubt that she'll end up being an echo, so it's either one or the other.

2. Bandana Dee: I still really want to see him in Smash, a spear fighter would be really fun, and he's also extremely adorable too. He's basically a staple of the Kirby games now, cementing his spot as the fourth member of Kirby's quartet, and I'd be surprised to not see him.

3. Rayman/Simon Belmont/Another 3rd Party: Though I'd like to see 2 new 3rd party characters, I feel we're likely to only get 1, unfortunately, and I feel Rayman and Simon Belmont are both the most likely candidates, although we could get another Namco or Square Enix character, or someone else entirely.

4. 7th Generation Pokémon: It's either Decidueye, Incineroar, or Mimikyu. Though I am still rooting for Decidueye, all have potential for interesting movesets and playstyles (Decidueye has a bunch of archery moves, Incineroar has wrestling moves, Mimikyu can use some interesting ghost type moves) and I'd be down to see any of them.

5. Dark Samus: The removal of the Dark Samus palette swap and no sight of her as an AT so far points to her very likely becoming an echo fighter. Even though the AT showed her pulling off plenty of unique and interesting moves, she can still be an interesting echo with Phazon enhanced attacks and such.

6. Shadow the Hedgehog: I'm really hoping for him to be either unique or a Luigified semi clone, but I'm fearful that we could see him as just an echo. Either way, I have the feeling that he will be playable with Knuckles appearing as an AT so far with no sight of him. Once again, I'm praying for a semi clone at the least, I want him to be able to use his various Chaos powers rather than all of the basic spins that Sonic does.

7. Mach Rider: I have my doubts that we'll be seeing Elma on the roster, looking at how the Xenoblade series emblem is still the Monado. It has no relation to XCX, and it'd be odd to see the emblem suddenly changed, or for her to get a different emblem despite being from the same franchise. Either way, we're likely to see another "WTF" character, and the mecha machine gun that Sakurai used for a reference points to Mach Rider for me. Sakurai has stated many years ago that he'd like to see Mach Rider in Smash, and he can finally add him/her to the game in Ultimate.

 

[MagnesD3]

Changed my mind on some things after hearing about when Sakurai knew what the roster was gonna be

I think we will get 9 real characters and 3 echos.

Newcomers

Inkling
Ridley
Elma (mech character from Sakurai tweet, fits with timeline for roster being finished)

Simon (matches with rumor, snake/Bomberman shows better ties with Konami)

Chorus Kids (some things suggest these suckers were being worked on for smash 4, fits Sakurai weird character, gives rhythm heaven a rep, I think rhythm heaven had a release around time of final roster being figured out)

Decidueye (most popular among the new gen starters, Pokemon will def have a new rep, probably a greninja situation)

Geno (had a strong cult following, better relations to square with cloud, Sakurai has talked about his inclusion/fan desires, mii hat)

King K Rool (iconic to older Nintendo fans, probably did very well on the poll, has been very popular for awhile, mii hat)

Banjo Kazooie (big 3rd party character/potentially with Minecraft stage deal, iconic to older Nintendo fans, Phil spencer open to it, Probably did well on the poll, was in line to be potentially in melee)

Echoes

Daisy
Isabella (popular probably did well on the polls, not much to go with moveset wise but would be very easy to work with villagers moveset)

Chrom (fans were teased a bit with last game, he was very popular then, easy with Ike, Sakurai doesn’t like to hurt fans)


Dlc I think it could be from 6-9 characters

Dixie Kong (easy semi clone, probably did well on ballot, was going to be included in brawl, has appeared in new titles)

Isaac (golden sun has no rep, assist trophy is gone, probably did pretty well on polls, has been requested for awhile)

Paper Mario (probably did well on polls, has had an entry not too long ago, has a stage)

Rayman (Ubisoft wanted him in, Nintendo’s relations with Ubisoft is strong)

Spring Man (main character of brand new title arms, would be base game of roster hadn’t been already realized)

Heihachi (Bandai Namco will probably get a second rep due to very good relations, Harada wanted him in if I recall, could be another fighting game character to add to the roster)

Shadow ( easy semi clone, no assist trophy so far, I imagine he did very well on the polls, Sonics a popular enough franchise for a 3rd party to receive another rep)

Crash Bandicoot (just got the trilogy on switch, may have done well on poll, iconic rival to old Nintendo)

Spyro (may get its trilogy on switch, only coming if in a bundle with crash since Spyro is iconic for the time period as well)

 

[Graizen]

Agumon is the right choice here.
He can digivolve in to WarGreymon and all!

 

[Jetsurge]

So, if we get a max of 7 more newcomers, this would be how our roster would be aligned, barring the top row getting any echo fighters.

I'm not sure if we'll get exactly 7 more, and DLC will screw this up royally, but 71 characters, 75 with Miis and Transformations, I'd be more than okay with it.View attachment 149528


In fact, I'd argue that this WILL be out final roster count.

They're going to want to keep the original 12 together, especially since this game is about Smash's history.

Your roster theory with the original 12 together at the top will be ruined by Dark Samus as an echo. It's looking likely. No assist trophy in sight, no skin and Ridley's victory is an evil Metroid theme instead of his theme which would also be used for Dark Samus.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Thank you! Ever since the E3 event I feel like the primary discussion has been about echo fighters as if they are somehow more exciting than what they are. People DO realize they are asking for more Dark Pit's right? Why is this suddenly exciting?

Because he repackaged the concept to make it sound a lot more interesting than it really is. "They're not near 1:1 clones, they're ECHO FIGHTERS ©!" It seems to have worked on Daisy fans because, hoo lad, most would have used your intestines as jump rope if you suggested in the past that Daisy would be a clone at best in Smash. Plus, as a fan base, I think we've evolved to the point where having a character in any playable form is better than nothing, especially with the introduction of the character equivalent of getting a debilitating leg cramp near the end of a marathon known as Mii costumes in SSB4.