Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Cosmic77]

Despite what others are saying about the series, I'm still sitting in the S.S. We'reGettingANewZeldaCharacter.

Tingle was recently shown off as a Great Bay stage hazard, so we're down to our final four competitors. Impa, Skull Kid, Toon Zelda/Tetra, and the Champions.

 

[osby]

Because he repackaged the concept to make it sound a lot more interesting than it really is. "They're not near 1:1 clones, they're ECHO FIGHTERS ©!" It seems to have worked on Daisy fans because, hoo lad, most would have used your intestines as jump rope if you suggested in the past that Daisy would be a clone at best in Smash. Plus, as a fan base, I think we've evolved to the point where having a character in any playable form is better than nothing, especially with the introduction of the character equivalent of getting a debilitating leg cramp near the end of a marathon known as Mii costumes in SSB4.

So, Smash fans realized fighters are hard to make?

 

[True Blue Warrior]

In what world would Wolf and Young Link take just as long to create as Inklings and Ridley?

Wolf was confirmed by Sakurai to take around 70% of the effort of a whole new character in Brawl and he is far more unique than Young Link and Pichu. The latter two characters would definetly not take as much time and effort to create for Ultimate as .

 

[Graizen]

We can not rule out a WarGreymon appearing as Final Smash of Agumon.
And I believe a Mecha would really help develop a body for him.
You can see in the vídeo, he is a Giant Mecha Dinosaur that shoots fireballs.

 

[Deleted member]

Despite what others are saying about the series, I'm still sitting in the S.S. We'reGettingANewZeldaCharacter.

Tingle was recently shown off as a Great Bay stage hazard, so we're down to our final four competitors. Impa, Skull Kid, Toon Zelda/Tetra, and the Champions.

If we're getting a Zelda newcomer, I'm willing to bet it would just be Impa as a Sheik Echo.

 

[Shyy_Guy595]

Despite what others are saying about the series, I'm still sitting in the S.S. We'reGettingANewZeldaCharacter.

Tingle was recently shown off as a Great Bay stage hazard, so we're down to our final four competitors. Impa, Skull Kid, Toon Zelda/Tetra, and the Champions.

I really don't think Tetra is happening, unless we assume ALL of the Forbidden 7 are gonma be playable.

It's really Impa or Skull Kid imo, and I don't think he's been upgraded to playable so, yeah

 

[CaptainAmerica]

I'll give a go at seven newcomers...

1. King K. Rool. Based on what little we know of the ballot, it's really likely he did well. He's been acknowledged with a trophy every Smash game so far, so it's not like he's impossibly obscure, and the Mii costume suspiciously came out of nowhere - we wouldn't have gotten that unless Nintendo saw how well he was doing on the ballot.

2. Decidueye still seems like the most likely Gen 7 mon to me. Mimikyu'd make an excellent Pokéball summon, and Lycanroc's concept art leaves a lot to be desired. Incineroar could be competition, but I think Sakurai'd like that Deci's got more unique potential than a mon who could easily be considered 'Captain Falcon clone'

3. Chorus Kids, or at least something from Rhythm Heaven. Gematsu's basically confirmed as an early roster draft, so I can see them revisiting this. I'd prefer the Wrestler if given a choice since that game is kinda fun/ny.

4. Geno's been big. He's got a huge fanbase and Sakurai likes him. See K.Rool with the Mii outfit.

5. Elma's another name that's being thrown about a lot based on Xeno. If Nintendo is trying to promote that series, they'd probably want it to be one of the few non-original 12 series that has multiple reps.

6. Ashley, since she's got massive support in Japan and has pretty well become the face of WarioWare by now.

7. Rayman is at the top of my 'most likely third parties' list based on his inexplicable trophy in Sm4sh and the hype surrounding the Artsy Omni thing. I bet he did unexpectedly well because of that. Simon is on everyone's lips now due to Vergeben, and BK had a lot of support after Phil Spencer tweeted his support ("No, I don't want a bunch of free advertising for my IP on a competitor's system..." of course he wants it!), but I don't know. I'd love to be able to put Dovahkiin in this slot with the hope that Todd Howard requested it when porting Skyrim to the Switch, but that's just fantasy. Point is, I'm not expecting more than two vanilla 3rd parties, incuding Geno, based on who's already in.

I could also see Isabelle as a Villager echo and Dixie as an echo or semi-clone of Diddy. Impa (Shiek) and Chrom (Ike) are also echoes that they could do.

For DLC, I'd guess Rex/Pyra (if Elma's not in) and Spring Man are already being considered. I wonder if there'll be another ballot specifically for DLC...the last one said it was for DLC, but the only character we got in from the ballot was made ground-up way too quickly to be believably from the ballot alone.

 

[MagnesD3]

Despite what others are saying about the series, I'm still sitting in the S.S. We'reGettingANewZeldaCharacter.

Tingle was recently shown off as a Great Bay stage hazard, so we're down to our final four competitors. Impa, Skull Kid, Toon Zelda/Tetra, and the Champions.

If Zelda got a newcomer I image it would be impa or skull kid but I doubt either make it in personally unless skull kid got high on the poll due to the majora remake. Impa could be an echo but I don’t think they would go that route since she is imo next in line for important Zelda characters to be included and her moveset I imagine would be based on the game where she was most prominent aka skyward sword.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Despite what others are saying about the series, I'm still sitting in the S.S. We'reGettingANewZeldaCharacter.

Tingle was recently shown off as a Great Bay stage hazard, so we're down to our final four competitors. Impa, Skull Kid, Toon Zelda/Tetra, and the Champions.

With Echo character being a thing, I'd add Hilda to that list.

 

[StrangeMann]

My 7:
DK newcomer (nonspecific)
Chorus Men
Simon Belmont
Elma
Pkmn Newcomer
and 2 echo fighters
Possibly replace echo fighters or Pkmn newcomer with Ubisoft rep or Kirby newcomer.

 

[Fatmanonice]

So, Smash fans realized fighters are hard to make?

More so that Mii costumes are kind of the character equivalent of purgatory where you're literally have to pretend it's the character you wanted, kind of like seeing purple Charizard as "Ridley." That said, most Smash fans will gladly take a true ALT like the Koopalings or an echo fighter over a Mii costume or assist trophy.

 

[MysticKnives]

Can't really predict newcomers myself assuming there's 7 left. I fully expect some of the ones the Smash fanbase want and or expect, but I'm hoping there's a few that aren't expected.

 

[Blargg888]

Thank you! Ever since the E3 event I feel like the primary discussion has been about echo fighters as if they are somehow more exciting than what they are. People DO realize they are asking for more Dark Pit's right? Why is this suddenly exciting?

Well, on a personal level, I never had any problems with direct clones to begin with, so long as they're implemented well.

You say that people are asking for more Dark Pits, but I think it'd be more accurate to say that people are asking for more Lucinas.

Lucina and DP may be out under the same categorization, but they're definitely not the same.

The idea of a character that takes a moveset that already exists and makes it slightly different is actually appealing in some regards.

Also, it's nice to finally be able to talk about this kind of thing without a ****storm starting up. I appreciate that most of all.

 

[Will]

We can not rule out a WarGreymon appearing as Final Smash of Agumon.
And I believe a Mecha would really help develop a body for him.
You can see in the vídeo, he is a Giant Mecha Dinosaur that shoots fireballs.

You're implying Agumon has a 100% chance to be in it.

 

[Pacack]

When has the character select screen meant anything in regards to how many newcomers we get?

Sakurai works to get as many characters done as possible, and then he puts them on a CSS after he's done. It's not like he looks at the character select screen and then goes "huh, guess I can only add seven more characters."

 

[Diddy Kong]

Despite what others are saying about the series, I'm still sitting in the S.S. We'reGettingANewZeldaCharacter.

Tingle was recently shown off as a Great Bay stage hazard, so we're down to our final four competitors. Impa, Skull Kid, Toon Zelda/Tetra, and the Champions.

So Impa is looking stronger every day. I really doubt Toon Zelda and Tetra as I don't think there will be 3 Zeldas in conjunct with 3 Links. I can't see that happening before we'd get yet another Mario. And even then, 3 same character additions for 2 characters of just 1 franchise is just a little too much.

Toon Zelda also has little to offer besides being a old skool clone, as Echo doesn't fit as she's marginally smaller than ALBW Zelda. Tetra also has little to offer if she's not directly based of Hyrule Warriors, and if they do that, why not Impa?

Neither are really "relevant" or highly demanded either, so am pretty sure a 3rd Zelda will be skipped over.

Skull Kid has a slight possibility, but he might just show up as a AT later on. With Young Link back, he's got quite a chance actually. Bigger than ever. Am not sure how he did on the ballot, but there's a chance he did far better than we ever expected. Majora's Mask 3DS has been released around the time the ballot came up, so there's that to consider.

The Champions are in a kind of weird position. They have some uniqueness to offer, all of them, yet they are obvious one-offs and there's the whole stigma of having just one of them presented instead of all of them. None of the Champions screams as more important or unique above the rest. Maybe Daruk? Aside from him being a super heavy weight, the Gorons are easily the most consistant appearing race in the Zelda franchise. The Rito, Gerudo and Zora miss out on a lot of titles most of the time. I'd like to see Urbosa, but am not seeing it happening.

Impa is easily the most likely Zelda newcomer, and she could also be added as a Echo of Sheik whenever another Zelda character would join. She really wouldn't take away a spot in any way or shape like that. I'd love to see her as a unique fighter however, and there's still chance for that. But I think it's about time she gets her proper respect as the most likely Zelda newcomer.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

I feel like Hilda could be in a decent position tp be an Echo character. That's not exactly what everyone wants but hey it's something. I would prefer Impa Skyward Sword but y'know.

 

[Will]

With all of thesse old stages coming back, it makes me wonder about how large the possible selected tracks would be per stage. I would love to have some new additions of course its just curious about what they'll balance out per stage.

Spoiler: You haven't lived until you hear Disco Kid's theme

 

[KingBroly]

I wonder how many people are upset that Charizard solo isn't playable.

 

[Will]

I wonder how many people are upset that Charizard solo isn't playable.

They'll stop being upset once they realize all these Trainer buffs and invincibility frames will make him top tier.

 

[KMDP]

Despite what others are saying about the series, I'm still sitting in the S.S. We'reGettingANewZeldaCharacter.

Tingle was recently shown off as a Great Bay stage hazard, so we're down to our final four competitors. Impa, Skull Kid, Toon Zelda/Tetra, and the Champions.

What about Vaati?

 

[Blargg888]

A Fourside "Echo Stage", Moonside, where you have higher knockback the LOWER your percentage is.

Pichu is god tier.

How about another Green Hill but with sand!
"Green Hill's Looking A Lot More Like Sand Hill Right Now"

I mean, if it had some unique stage elements, I wouldn't mind.
It'd be better than another greenery Sonic stage at least.

 

[Opossum]

7. Mach Rider: I have my doubts that we'll be seeing Elma on the roster, looking at how the Xenoblade series emblem is still the Monado. It has no relation to XCX, and it'd be odd to see the emblem suddenly changed, or for her to get a different emblem despite being from the same franchise.

The Fire Emblem series symbol is Marth's Falchion despite it being reforged in Robin and Lucina's world, and nonexistent all together for Roy, Ike, and Corrin's worlds. Elma with the Monado isn't that strange.

 

[Pacack]

In really weird news, the German box art of Smash Bros Ultimate has removed Yoshi to make room for the USK rating logo.

Zinith Will not be happy.

 

[Will]

The Fire Emblem series symbol is Marth's Falchion despite it being reforged in Robin and Lucina's world, and nonexistent all together for Roy, Ike, and Corrin's worlds. Elma with the Monado isn't that strange.

Maybe Sakurai had no idea how to make the Fire Emblem an actual Emblem for their series.

 

[PeridotGX]

If we only get 7 more newcomers in the base game, here's what I expect, going from the one I'm most confident in.

1. Bandana Dee. He really does check all the boxes. (Presumably) did very well in the ballot, and is popular with both casuals and competitive people, across the globe. In 2015, when the roster was made, Kirby and the Rainbow Curse released, with Dee as the only Player 2.

2. Ashley (WarioWare). HUGELY popular in Japan. We know the Ballot is going to play a major role ion the roster, and I cant imagine she did bad in the ballot. Also, her AT is absent.

3. Octolings (Inkling Echo). Incredibly easy pic. Simmilar to Roy, I see them added to promote the Octo Expansion. Plus if they want to make them more unique, they could do it easy with all the different weapons in Splatoon.

4. King K.Rool. While we may not know exactly how the Ballot went, Smashboards and similar places pushed K.Rool so much I imagine he did will. The only reason he's not higher is because we already have a Western Ballot Pick ()

5. Gen 7 Pokémon. I'm not sure which one, but I think it's either going to be Decidueye or Lycanroc.

6. Elma (Xenoblade X). She was relevant when the roster was made

7. Ninten (Ness Echo). I can imagine Sakurai would want the MC from each Mother game in. It's a small thing that would make it more "ultimate".

 

[Staarih]

I dunno, I'm not convinced we'll get too many Echo Fighters. I have serious doubts for the likes of Dark Samus and Chrom, for example. They may have introduced a new term (maybe as more of a way for them to feel "okay"), but to me it would feel weird to add clones just for the sake of... adding clones - which usually have been lowest priority and last minute additions. Though I guess that's what happened with Daisy, so who knows, this time could be different.

Is there anyone here who still think Spring man has a chance to be playable in the base roster?

My puny heart would love Spring Man and major ARMS content in Smash from the get go, but sadly I think it'll be DLC at best.

 

[Deleted member]

People who don't have any third-party newcomers on their predictions remind me that this really is Smashboards.

 

[Blargg888]

Maybe Sakurai had no idea how to make the Fire Emblem an actual Emblem for their series.

Well, the problem with using the Fire Emblem is that it's not consistent between the different FE universes. In Marth's it's the Shield of Seals, in Corrin's it's the Yato, in Roy's it's a seal, and in Ike's it's a medallion. So it's not consistent across the series either.

They probably figured that they could use Falchion to mark the series origin as a symbol, or something like that.

 

[Pacack]

Maybe Sakurai had no idea how to make the Fire Emblem an actual Emblem for their series.

Yep. Super difficult for that one. Fire Emblem just didn't have anything super obvious to use as an emblem, I guess.

Such a shame.

 

[SlickWylde]

People who don't have any third-party newcomers on their predictions remind me that this really is Smashboards.

I think it's less "I don't think there will be any 3rd party newcomers" and more "I think it's easier to predict 1st party newcomes. 3rd party newcomers could literally be anyone"

 

[Will]

I have my doubts that we'll be seeing Elma on the roster, looking at how the Xenoblade series emblem is still the Monado. It has no relation to XCX, and it'd be odd to see the emblem suddenly changed, or for her to get a different emblem despite being from the same franchise.

There's more Xeno games than Xenoblade. Xenogears and Xenosaga all have non-Monado properties. No other Xenoblade game was out when Smash 4 released. If it WERE to get a redesign (which I doubt), it'd just be the X from the weird font it uses.

People who don't have third-party newcomers on their predictions remind me that this really is Smashboards.

Who's left to predict that's a third party and plausible? I'm not sold on Simon, definitely not sold on Rayman, and any other Sonic character that isn't Eggman makes me want to cease existing.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

I feel like Hilda could be in a decent position tp be an Echo character. That's not exactly what everyone wants but hey it's something. I would prefer Impa Skyward Sword but y'know.

I doubt they will go with such an obscure one off character from several years ago that almost no one asked for, even as an echo fighter. I don't think they are going to get too carried away and just add any of Nintendo's characters who would work as an echo fighter.

 

[UberPyro64]

My final seven prediction is in my signature. Choices were made based on popularity, what Sakurai has said in the past, recent events and recent titles when the game started development. I think it'd be pretty darn good base game roster.

 

[Phaazoid]

In really weird news, the German box art of Smash Bros Ultimate has removed Yoshi to make room for the USK rating logo.

View attachment 149584

Zinith Will not be happy.

yoshi cut from the roster confirmed

 

[Deleted member]

I think it's less "I don't think there will be any 3rd party newcomers" and more "I think it's easier to predict 1st party newcomes. 3rd party newcomers could literally be anyone"

Who's left to predict that's a third party and plausible? I'm not sold on Simon, definitely not sold on Rayman, and any other Sonic character that isn't Eggman makes me want to cease existing.

I agree with the sentiment, but no one leaves an open slot for third-parties. Heck, I've even seen someone who explicitly predicted that the only third-party newcomer is going to be Geno.

 

[Will]

Ninten (Ness Echo)

I hate this meme with all my everything.
Ninten doesn't have any of the moves Ness has, sans haha a baseball bat. He only has defensive PSI moves, and some are very important differences from the Mother games. PSI Magnet isn't the same as PSI Shield. The best Ninten has at his disposal is a PK Beam that he used in a Japanese commercial. I don't think Sakurai would try to incorrectly label him with moves he doesn't have, especially since he fixed the PK Starstorm Final Smash by adding the appropriately placed characters who uses them in the game (+ Boney).

 

[Pacack]

The Fire Emblem series symbol is Marth's Falchion despite it being reforged in Robin and Lucina's world, and nonexistent all together for Roy, Ike, and Corrin's worlds. Elma with the Monado isn't that strange.

Plus, one can argue that the X series is an offshoot of the Xenoblade franchise, akin to Yoshi, Wario, or Donkey Kong. If so, then having the X as the logo isn't really out of place whatsoever.

 

[Just a random scrub]

Do you really not understand? I literally explained why in the post you are replying too.

Echo Fighters are nearly IDENTICAL to their base fighters. This means they share almost all animations when their base fighter. I already said: "Dr. Mario, Pichu, and Wolf are not labelled as Echo Fighters."

Sonic has too many animations that would have to be completely different in order for Shadow to be portrayed appropriately.

These animations include: Idle pose, running, Up Throw, Up Special, Side Smash, crouch, etc.

This is like saying it's not impossible for Daisy and Dark Pit to be costumes. Yeah. It's not IMPOSSIBLE. It's just that Sakurai has higher standards for characters than that. It's not "impossible" to replace all the character models with bologna sandwiches. And nobody said it was impossible.

And please don't come to me with some half baked argument that "Daisy uses Toads, so how can you say portraying characters accurately matters? There's no standards, right, because Alph uses the Hocatate Ship! Just make all the characters into costumes."

Honestly, it could go either way with Shadow.

Shadow has played nigh-identically to Sonic in multiple games (including most recently Sonic Forces, where I think his only difference was having a stronger Homing Attack), so him being an echo wouldn't be all that strange and could definitely happen. Echos can still have different poses for things that aren't related to fighting and slightly altered animations for a few attacks to convey personality better (like Peach and Daisy's neutral special; Peach turns away as if she can't look at the carnage, while Daisy's animation looks more like she's asking her Toad "Did you get him?"), so conveying Shadow's personality wouldn't be too big of an issue.

HOWEVER, Shadow definitely has a lot of unique skills as well that could make a very interesting and distinct moveset, like his Chaos Powers, his guns, etc, so he could just as easily get a unique moveset too.

So the gist of this is that both the pro-echo and anit-echo people need to understand that just because Shadow could be an echo or a uniqe character dosen't mean he'd only make sense as one or the other. Shadow being an echo, a semi-clone, or a unique character are all very possible and they all make total sense in my eyes. That is all.

 

[Pacack]

I hate this meme with all my everything.
Ninten doesn't have any of the moves Ness has, sans haha a baseball. He only has defensive PSI moves, and some are very important differences from the Mother game. PSI Magnet isn't the same as PSI Shield. The best Ninten has at his disposal is a PK Beam that he used in a Japanese commercial. I don't think Sakurai would try to incorrectly label him with moves he doesn't have, especially since he fixed the PK Starstorm Final Smash by adding the appropriately placed characters who uses them in the game (+ Boney).

Ness and Lucas don't even use PK Fire, Freeze, or Thunder... I don't think Sakurai cares.

Make PSI Shield a reflector and give him PK Beam as his offensive attacks, and boom. Maybe give him 4th-D Slip as a teleport up b if you want, and he's already more faithful to his games than Ness and Lucas.