Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Tree Gelbman]

Well for starters this was Dark Samus's assist trophy:

Not a thing there says ''Echo of Samus"

I agree Shadow has unique potential, and I agree with someone earlier saying that third parties get guest treatment. I don't know how a third party company would feel if their character's ''guest treatment" was just ''Almost exactly like your other character in the game."

Only Capcom might be okay with that if it was say Ken for Ryu or something.

 

[Curious Villager]

Can't we just go back to having clones/semi-clones? Echo's feel way too restrictive imo...

 

[Deleted member]

Language warning:

Spoiler

This fan theory is already rather known, but I'd just add to it that comes back in Smash Ultimate as that Alolan Raichu which can be summoned with Pokéballs.

 

[KMDP]

I like how everyone is near unanimously saying Dark Samus would be a semi-clone but Shadow has been near unanimously written off as an echo.

Like wut. Tbf I've never played Metroid so I don't know jack about Dark Samus but it makes me think that the same is true for the people who think Shadow should just be an echo.

Seriously, if someone could clear that up for me that would be great. I really have a hard time believing a "Dark" version of another character could be more different from the original than Shadow is to Sonic.

(Also not really trying to have the Shadow discussion again. I just don't understand the logic in here sometimes.)

Seems like Pro-Nintendo, anti-Sega Bias to me.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Well for starters this was Dark Samus's assist trophy:

Not a thing there says ''Echo of Samus"

I agree Shadow has unique potential, and I agree with someone earlier saying that third parties get guest treatment. I don't know how a third party company would feel if their character's ''guest treatment" was just ''Almost exactly like your other character in the game."

Only Capcom might be okay with that if it was say Ken for Ryu or something.

Well to be fair, Ridley was a boss, three times over so things can change.

As for 3rd Party Echos, I have a feeling if they're a thing each COMPANY will only get one each so Shadow getting in won't force a Bayonetta one. Question is, are Capcom Japan (Mega Man) and Capcom USA distinct enough for one each?

 

[Murlough]

Well for starters this was Dark Samus's assist trophy:

Not a thing there says ''Echo of Samus

I could say the say the same about Shadow's AT.

Seems like Pro-Nintendo, anti-Sega Bias to me.

I dunno about that. I feel like this is closer to a "Gen 1" issue. I feel like alot of people who argue Shadow is just Sonic played the games up to Adventure 2 and then stopped playing so they never got to see Shadow branching off from Sonic.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Stupid gif didn't load. Found others.

Either way. Two specials are legit right there for Sakurai.

If he wanted to make her a fighter. He's only gotta worry about smash attacks and two other attacks. And that stuff could potentially be borrowed from Samus.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

Can't we just go back to clones/semi-clones? Echo's feel way too restrictive imo...

yeah tbh I'd rather they just given them their own numbers and luigified them a little rather than doing the whole echo thing

 

[Shroob]

Admit it, you'd have missed Pichu in Brawl if this had been the Pichu that we got in Gold/Silver originally.

 

[Iridium]

Oh and a pretty important thing I never tweeted about regarding Ultimate

Tethers/grapples don't bypass the time you have to stay on ledge. You can't tether and immediately do a ledge option anymore, which generally makes them worse.

— ESAM (@imESAM) June 20, 2018

I remember talking about the changes to tether recoveries, but this is one aspect of them.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Is there anyone here who still think Spring man has a chance to be playable in the base roster?

 

[KMDP]

Is there anyone here who still think Spring man has a chance to be playable in the base roster?

Frankly, I think DLC is more likely, but I'd give Base Roster playability a... 30% chance? Sakurai could have been given concept art details about him well in advance.

 

[Arcadenik]

If I could guess, fighting game characters. Most other characters aren't """competing""" franchises, like the FFVII fanbase has a likely huge intersection with the Smash fanbase. Characters from Tekken, Mortal Kombat, Soul Calibur etc. would attract new players more than most third parties, especially if done with the same amount of detail as Ryu. The reason isn't necessarily that the effect would be huge but its hard to put myself in the shoes of a Minecraft gamer, casual or hardcore, and say "I love sandbox games, Steve's in Smash? Time to learn how to fighting game for 1/70 some characters." It's not an impossibility, but I think attracting the fighting game audience would be Smash's best bet if this was their goal with third parties.

Ooh! I like this idea!

Add iconic characters from iconic fighting games in Smash!

Imagine that... iconic characters from the iconic arcade fighting games from the 1990s battling in Smash!

• Street Fighter II (1991, Capcom) - Ryu (Chun-Li Assist Trophy)
• Fatal Fury (1991, SNK) - Terry Bogard (Mai Shiranui Assist Trophy)
• Mortal Kombat (1992, Midway) - Scorpion (Sub-Zero Assist Trophy)
• Virtua Fighter (1993, Sega) - Akira Yuki or Jacky Bryant (don’t know much about the series but I assume these two are most important/popular... I guess one of them could be an Assist Trophy)
• Tekken (1994, Namco) - Heihachi Mishima (maybe King Assist Trophy... don’t know why this sticks in my mind... maybe it’s the jaguar mask?)

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Ooh! I like this idea!

Add iconic characters from iconic fighting games in Smash!

Imagine that... iconic characters from the iconic arcade fighting games from the 1990s battling in Smash!

• Street Fighter II (1991, Capcom) - Ryu (Chun-Li Assist Trophy)
• Fatal Fury (1991, SNK) - Terry Bogard (Mai Shiranui Assist Trophy)
• Mortal Kombat (1992, Midway) - Scorpion (Sub-Zero Assist Trophy)
• Virtua Fighter (1993, Sega) - Akira Yuki or Jacky Bryant (don’t know much about the series but I assume these two are most important/popular... I guess one of them could be an Assist Trophy)
• Tekken (1994, Namco) - Heihachi Mishima (maybe King Assist Trophy... don’t know why this sticks in my mind... maybe it’s the jaguar mask?)

Given that, any third party that had some level of involvement with platformers and fighting games seem to stand the best chance of making it in. Even cases like Duke Nukem had platformers had some points in their career.

Also, who here bets that SNK would want to include Terry alongside Metal Slug's Marco?

 

[RiotLupine]

this one?
View attachment 149524

lmfao

babby's furst maya model lol

But for the record, it's kind of amazing how we actually have Ridley for once. I always felt like he was gonna stay a boss character forever or something.
Sorry if what I'm saying isn't much right now, due to SSBU hype I thought I'd log back on to my account and join in the speculation. Also stoked that everyone is in the game. I'm so happy to see Snake and Young Link return. Played them loads.

 

[KMDP]

Ooh! I like this idea!

Add iconic characters from iconic fighting games in Smash!

Imagine that... iconic characters from the iconic arcade fighting games from the 1990s battling in Smash!

• Street Fighter II (1991, Capcom) - Ryu (Chun-Li Assist Trophy)
• Fatal Fury (1991, SNK) - Terry Bogard (Mai Shiranui Assist Trophy)
• Mortal Kombat (1992, Midway) - Scorpion (Sub-Zero Assist Trophy)
• Virtua Fighter (1993, Sega) - Akira Yuki or Jacky Bryant (don’t know much about the series but I assume these two are most important/popular... I guess one of them could be an Assist Trophy)
• Tekken (1994, Namco) - Heihachi Mishima (maybe King Assist Trophy... don’t know why this sticks in my mind... maybe it’s the jaguar mask?)

I'd add Nightmare from Soul Calibur to that list.
Reverse the crossover from 2002 with Team Soul's Mascot!

 

[Cosmic77]

Is there anyone here who still think Spring man has a chance to be playable in the base roster?

Spring Man's biggest hurdle isn't timing, but rather his series being a completely new IP.

Spring Man has such an obvious yet unique gimmick that I couldn't see Sakurai not wanting to consider adding him. That being said, I could easily see him dismissing Spring Man and adding him as an Assist Trophy just because he might not feel like ARMS deserves a character (or at least back then when he wasn't sure how well ARMS would do).

 

[Deleted member]

Is there anyone here who still think Spring man has a chance to be playable in the base roster?

I sure as hell don't.
Though frankly, I stopped thinking he has a chance at the base roster a long time ago.

 

[Murlough]

I think timing is still an issue. I don't think many series get the "conecpt art" treatment Pokemon got. Especially a brand new IP that may or may not be a colossal failure.

I think ARMS did relatively well for itself though so its entirely possible Spring Man gets in as DLC later.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

Is there anyone here who still think Spring man has a chance to be playable in the base roster?

Not a chance, timing is not on his side and even if by some stretch they wanted to add him before his game was released, as a new ip they'd have no idea if it would even be successful.

That being said he's a strong contender for DLC, arms is sure to continue given it's success

 

[KMDP]

Here's an idea:

You can KO Assist Trophies now, does that mean Assist Trophies that can be KO'd will have their own Icons like Ridley did in Smash Wii U?

Discuss.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

Here's an idea:

You can KO Assist Trophies now, does that mean Assist Trophies that can be KO'd will have their own Icons like Ridley did in Smash Wii U?

Discuss.

Yes they probably will, that said though I wonder how many are able to be killed, you can't exactly ko andross or the squid sisters.

 

[Curious Villager]

Here's an idea:

You can KO Assist Trophies now, does that mean Assist Trophies that can be KO'd will have their own Icons like Ridley did in Smash Wii U?

Discuss.

I don't know, probably, was it shown in the demo?

Now that I think about it, I haven't really taken a proper look at the new results screen other than the new victory poses and all.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Is there anyone here who still think Spring man has a chance to be playable in the base roster?

The possibility is there, but unless Sakurai received ARMS concept art before 2016, it's probably not too likely that he'll be in the base roster.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Here's an idea:

You can KO Assist Trophies now, does that mean Assist Trophies that can be KO'd will have their own Icons like Ridley did in Smash Wii U?

Discuss.

Nope. Too much work considering Metal Face didn't get an icon in 4

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Here's an idea:

You can KO Assist Trophies now, does that mean Assist Trophies that can be KO'd will have their own Icons like Ridley did in Smash Wii U?

Discuss.

I imagine there'll just be an icon that represents all ATs, and not necessarily a unique icon for every AT that can be KO'd, that's just not worth the effort.

 

[KMDP]

Nope. Too much work considering Metal Face didn't get an icon in 4

You say "too much work", I say it takes me like, 30 minutes to make one, by myself, relatively sloppily.
Sakurai has a team of guys working under him, they could do it if they wanted.

 

[RiotLupine]

Considering that ARMS is quite recent, There may be some representation of ARMS, maybe not as a character or stage, but maybe something like Trophies or music?
W101 got the same treatment, Like ARMS, it was a great title, just wasn't popular enough and it's too young, unlike Splatoon, and, in Smash 4's case, Xenoblade Chronicles.

But still, we could get music, I know I wanna hear ARMS's menu theme in Smash.

What were the lyrics again? Ooooh...

 

[Chron]

Arms trophies for sure, and possibly a stage would be my guess.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

I really need to hear them soulful ''OOOOH OOOOHH OHHHH OOHHH OHHHS." in Smash Brothers at some point.

 

[KMDP]

I really need to hear them soulful ''OOOOH OOOOHH OHHHH OOHHH OHHHS." in Smash Brothers at some point.

Riot if we don't hear "WOOOAH-HOOOOOOO~!" in Shadow Moses.

 

[Dragoncharystary]

I think Dillon is a likely DLC candidate for the reasons stated above on Spring Man.

 

[RiotLupine]

I really need to hear them soulful ''OOOOH OOOOHH OHHHH OOHHH OHHHS." in Smash Brothers at some point.

Nah...

NAH NAH NAH, NAAH NAH NAH NAAH, NAAH NAH NAH NAAAH NAH NAH NAH NA-

sorry

Anyways, I'm looking forward to what other tracks they'll have. I mean, we now have the MGS series back, I would love to hear RULES OF NATURE.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

I hope they payed that woman well to basically sit her ass in a recording studio and essentially just warm up her voice like velvety butter.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Daisy might wind up being the only echo fighter because, aside from Melee, Smash games usually don't add too many new clone characters and usually put more effort in making returning ones more unique.

Smash 64- Luigi
Melee- Doc, Ganon, Falco, Lad Link, Pichu, Roy
Brawl- Lucas, Wolf
SSB4- Lucina, Grit

If the 7 more newcomers thing winds up being true, I think they'll forego another easy +1 and make a character more unique ala a semi or Luigified clone like my Dixie Kong suggestion yesterday.

 

[Omega Tyrant]

Is there anyone here who still think Spring man has a chance to be playable in the base roster?

I know what happened with Greninja gives people hope that an Arms and Xenoblade 2 character will still make it in, but Sakurai even said with Greninja that it was an exception because it's Pokemon (and Roy's situation in Melee isn't applicable here as Roy was a last minute clone and his game was scheduled for release before Melee). A new unproven IP and a new entry in a mid tier series are not going to get the same treatment that Pokemon did. They're prime DLC candidates, but it's just unrealistic to think they're still going to be on the base roster.

 

[Arcadenik]

Here's an idea:

You can KO Assist Trophies now, does that mean Assist Trophies that can be KO'd will have their own Icons like Ridley did in Smash Wii U?

Discuss.

I hope Pokeball Pokémon can be KO'd. I want that sweet Meowth icon.

 

[P.Kat]

I'm just dying internally since we probably won't get a Direct until August... which means rehashed information through July.

I'm just hoping that my Okami theory holds true when August comes around.

A Nintendo Direct + the stated release of Okami HD on Switch now being available (if the direct is August 9) = A (Slight) possible chance of Amaterasu coming to Smash as a newcomer. Outside of DLC, it would be Ammy's best chance at joining Smash and everything would pair up perfectly... Almost too perfectly. If it doesn't happen, that's fine its a hope of mine, not an expectation and there's still the hope of her making it to DLC.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Daisy might wind up being the only echo fighter because, aside from Melee, Smash games usually don't add too many new clone characters and usually put more effort in making returning ones more unique.

Smash 64- Luigi
Melee- Doc, Ganon, Falco, Lad Link, Pichu, Roy
Brawl- Lucas, Wolf
SSB4- Lucina, Grit

If the 7 more newcomers thing winds up being true, I think they'll forego another easy +1 and make a character more unique ala a semi or Luigified clone like my Dixie Kong suggestion yesterday.

I don't think that they'd come up with a brand new term for clone characters if it wasn't because they had included more than just Daisy, would seem a bit odd otherwise. Semi clones are obviously still possible, and Dixie would likely be one should she get in, but I also expect at least one more new echo fighter.

Also, Jigglypuff was a Kirby semi-clone in 64.

 

[92MilesPrower]

*AUX CALL PUSH SELECT*

Snake: Looks like someone got quite a nose job compared to the last time I saw him.

Colonel: Be on your guard, Snake, Ganondorf isn't fooling around this time. He's stronger than ever, and quite a force to be reckoned with.

Snake: Aside from the obvious wardrobe change, what's new about him that makes him so dangerous?

Colonel: That sword of his is the main reason, he now has access to attacking any opponent at a further range than ever before. His more youthful appearance also lets him move faster, ever so slightly, so watch out for him.

Snake: ...So he just has a long range weapon and is younger... that's it? Changed or not, I'm still gonna try to blow him sky high with C4s. Better than any old sword.