Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Murlough]

I don't know how caught up you are, but source gaming recently translated an article that Sakurai wrote in which he stated that the game plan was finished in 2015. This lead a lot of people to write off characters such as Rex and Pyra, Springman, and any Gen 7 pokemon due to the development time.

No. It said the initial proposal occured in late 2015. That does NOT = "the game plan was finished."

Can we stop spreading misinformation? That would be phenominal.

"Initial" and "Last" are basically opposites. How are we mixing this up?

 

[Idon]

No. It said the initial proposal occured in late 2015. That does NOT = The game plan was finished.

Can we stop spreading misinformation? That would be phenominal.

Toooooo late.
Once misinformation comes out, no amount of correction will be able to fix it.

Hell, we still have some people that believe SSBU is a port of 4.

 

[KMDP]

On that note, Tifa AT when? I'd be fine with my main gal of that game getting in that way.

I see... Then you should head here for a spell!

You mean, if we even get another FFVII character.

Don't underestimate the votes of the general populace of casual gamers who don't know who they "shouldn't" vote for.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

I see... Then you should head here for a spell!

Been there earlier, heh. A Shantae one from you would be nice though.

 

[DarkFalcon]

I'd take a guess and say the idea of everyone coming back was part of the initial proposal.

 

[Deathcarter]

Actually regarding this I'm trying to find footage of her in Skyward Sword with the cape and I can not find any anywhere?! Like I vividly remember that cape but almost the entire game has her without it. There's tons of concept art and even her smash 4 trophy had the cape...which is more poncho like actually.

At most she might throw it off or something as her battle entrance lol.

She appears with when you meet her at Eldin Volcano.

 

[P.Kat]

My 7 Newcomers


Echoes
Isabelle: Popular AC character
Kat & Ana: (Ice Climbers echo) surprisingly easy to echo. Swap hammers with... KatAnas, freezie(s) with shuriken(s) or Kunai(s), and blizzard attack with Sharp, or hard hitting Sakura petals. Up Special, Side Special and standard moveset stays the same Final Smash can be their old Assist Trophy special just enhanced to better KO enemies.

Blaze The Cat: (even though its most likely gonna be Shadow who I'm also fine with) A Fire focused moveset with speed, and acrobatic skill sounds fun to use
Lycanroc or Gardevoir A Geokinectic wolf or a graceful psychic/fairy type with the ability to use black holes either one.

Amaterasu: She has a variety of weapons that she holds on her back and uses telekinetically: A Celestial Brush (her tail) that can create objects and obstacles with her ink as well as cut and attack enemies with it, A Reflector that can counter and reflect attacks it can also quickly be used offensively as well as defensively making it the most balanced weapon she has other the her Celestial Brush.

Rosary Beads can be used as a whip and the beads can be fired as bullets promoting long range speedy attacks. Finally the Glaive (blade), a long but somewhat heavy blade releases powerful attacks that are somewhat slow promoting close range power attacks Sakurai could either mix the uses of Al weapons together, or input a stance mechanic to change between the four weapons and moveset but Special Moves and throws will stay the same. (Darn it! I always end up rambling when it comes to Amaterasu )

Sora: Cut skyscrapers to pieces with one slash, various elemental attacks, flight, different forms, healing, control gravity, stop time, need I go o-.

Shantae: Other than the Genie's iconic transformation abilities, she can shoot various fire attacks (fireball, triple fireballs, flamethrower) with could work like Robin's elethunder (without the limited tome mechanic), She can summon Pike balls to surround her and take enemy attacks as well as attack enemies, and she can summon a large storm cloud to smite enemy right in front of her.

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

No. It said the initial proposal occured in late 2015. That does NOT = "the game plan was finished."

Can we stop spreading misinformation? That would be phenominal.

"Initial" and "Last" are basically opposites. How are we mixing this up?

I'd take a guess and say the idea of everyone coming back was part of the initial proposal.

Based on past games though it's safe to say not much changed and development began shortly after (early 2016, a month or so after dlc like Sakurai said when reffering to taking a break). Sakurai is pretty strict with his plans so I doubt much changed. For example if we had a legitimate leaked first proposal, I wouldn't say that those were 100% the characters we got just like the Gematsu situation. However we can probably expect things like a Gen 7 Pokemon place holder as well as not having any Switch representation in the form of characters. Also yea I'm sure the only thing that would be consistent on that project plan is all veterans returning as that is the theme of the game.

She appears with when you meet her at Eldin Volcano.

I think that's the only time she wears it in game XD

 

[Phaazoid]

Can I just say it feels so good to list Ridley's stock icon under my name for mains finally?

So good

sweet victory

 

[Fenriraga]

I firmly believe we're going to get more FF/FF7 content this time around. There is no Limited DLC budget to restrict Cloud anymore. I'm expecting an Assist, some trophies and more music options. Maybe even a remix, perish the thought.

There's literally no excuse.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Friendly reminder to all that the Japanese name of Super Smash Bros. Ultimate is 大乱闘スマシュブラザーズSPECIAL (Dairantō Smash Brothers Special/Super Smash Bros. Special). No "Ultimateness" implied.

Based on the presentation of the game, I still feel there is a sense of “The Ultimate Smash Game” implied. Maybe that’s just me.

Cuts are gonna happen again at some point. It's just not feasible to get 75 or 80 tweaked veterans in addition to several newcomers.

Sooner or later, Sakurai will have to start trimming the fat from the roster.

That may very well be the case, but any roster that no longer has what Ultimate has is going to effectively be viewed as inferior. That seems to be a weird standard to set for the whole series.

If we take Sakurai’s words on the roster, and saying this game would be 1/3 the size or 1/3 smaller (I don’t have the exact wording, but you know what i’m saying), that roster in itself probably wouldn’t be viewed with as much positivity. This game sells on the characters you can play as.

I myself see it as beneficial for Nintendo to encourage/allow this roster to continue past this game. If it’s more of a port than this game is, I still see absolutely no problem with that.
—-
There was one other comment I wanted to respond to about characters “being more likely” because an AT, costume, or some other aspect didn’t show up at E3.

Absolutely not. There are still something like at least 20 Assist Trophies yet to be seen, and not all skins were available. Unless you think Meta Ridley and Fire Mario are scrapped (even though Meta Ridley was shown in the trailer), then that means there are still skins/costumes to see.

Don’t spread misinformation simply because it makes your character of choice seem more likely. If Lyn and Waluigi are still AT’s despite their popularity, there’s no reason to think Ashley, for example, is clear of sharing that fate.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Ike, Roy and Corrin would like to have a word with you...

Not the series symbol but the logo.

This thing.

 

[Zinith]

Not the series symbol but the logo.

This thing.

Ah okay. Sorry for the confusion

 

[Fenriraga]

Here's a thought.

Judging by the logos...

I say we can effectively deconfirm any character from Final Fantasy that isn't from Final Fantasy VII.

The logo for the game is specifically for Final Fantasy VII meaning other games are not counted.

Wait, I'm a bit confused. His logo is still the double-Fs in the series' traditional font, not specifically to 7. It's not the Meteor or anything. What do you mean the logo is specifically from 7, unless I missed something?

I mean, I'm of the same mindeset that only 7 will get representation, but still.

 

[Pazzo.]

As sweet, I can have the Inklings in my background now.

This is what I pay for. Can't wait to play in December

 

[Pacack]

No. It said the initial proposal occured in late 2015. That does NOT = "the game plan was finished."

Can we stop spreading misinformation? That would be phenominal.

"Initial" and "Last" are basically opposites. How are we mixing this up?

We're not. The initial project proposal includes the final newcomer roster barring last minute additions (like clones in Melee/Smash 4 or Sonic in Brawl) or cuts.

"All fighters on the roster are decided from the beginning, along with themes to help bring out their unique attributes. After everything is decided, the staff works as a single unit to create everything as planned...

Before deciding the roster I do some preliminary research on demand and popularirty, but I don't make any changes once the project is in motion."

 

[KMDP]

Can I just say it feels so good to list Ridley's stock icon under my name for mains finally?

So good

sweet victory

Maybe one day us Isaac fans will know the feeling.

I firmly believe we're going to get more FF/FF7 content this time around. There is no Limited DLC budget to restrict Cloud anymore. I'm expecting an Assist, some trophies and more music options. Maybe even a remix, perish the thought.

There's literally no excuse.

Cloud w/ Zack alt, Tifa assist and Sephiroth as a DLC Newcomer down the line?

Based on the presentation of the game, I still feel there is a sense of “The Ultimate Smash Game” implied. Maybe that’s just me.

Yeah, I feel ya!

 

[zeldasmash]

I firmly believe we're going to get more FF/FF7 content this time around. There is no Limited DLC budget to restrict Cloud anymore. I'm expecting an Assist, some trophies and more music options. Maybe even a remix, perish the thought.

There's literally no excuse.

One Winged Angel as a music track. Come on, guys. No excuse this time. Alongside the Bombing Mission and JENOVA.

I do think they should get other tunes from other FF titles, like the Boss Theme from FFIV, Laughing Mad from FFVI, Liberi Fatali from FFVIII and so on and so forth.

 

[SquashiniKun]

Here are my 7 unique newcomers
1. Rhythm Heaven Character
2. Elma
3. Retro Character
4. Gen 7 Pokemon
5. New Mario/Zelda/Kirby Character
6. 3rd Party Character #1
7. 3rd Party Character #2

 

[Pazzo.]

I will boycott Midgar if JENOVA isn't a track.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Friendly reminder to all that the Japanese name of Super Smash Bros. Ultimate is 大乱闘スマシュブラザーズSPECIAL (Dairantō Smash Brothers Special/Super Smash Bros. Special). No "Ultimateness" implied.

I'm pretty sure there is some crazy fan out there that thinks Terry Bogard will be a shoo-in, just because this game has the subtitle "Special", like with Fatal Fury Special.

 

[Pyra]

Hey everyone.
It's been such a long time since I've participated on SmashBoards- last real time was when we were all scrambling over Sm4sh speculation.

I think it may be time for my return.

"who the **** are you???"

 

[KMDP]

I will boycott Midgar if JENOVA isn't a track.

They seriously should have these Music tracks on Midgar:
Let the Battles Begin
Fight on!
Opening ~ Bombing Mission
Crazy Motorcycle Chase
Aerith's Theme
J-E-N-O-V-A
Birth of a God
One Winged Angel
EDIT: Theme of Final Fantasy VII (yes, I know it's unfitting)

Yes this is pretty much all the battle themes, your point?

I'm pretty sure there is some crazy fan out there that thinks Terry Bogard will be a shoo-in, just because this game has the subtitle "Special", like with Fatal Fury Special.

*gasp*

Maybe we'll get Fortune Smash! 'Cause "Itadaki Street Special" is a thing! (I'm being facetious here)

 

[Pacack]

So, I was doing some research for my Daitoryo thread, and I wanted to share with everyone my research on why Duck Hunt's inclusion is historical in a similar vein to Mr. Game and Watch and R.O.B.

Even if you don't consider my "historical character" idea to be worthwhile, I think this is worth reading if you're interested in the origins of Nintendo.

Duck Hunt is a character which is a little less obvious about its historical ties. However, I would argue that the character represents not only the extremely well-selling Duck Hunt video game, but also the light gun as a whole. This included much earlier points in Nintendo's history, including the Beam Gun, Laser Clay Shooting System, Wild Gunman, and Duck Hunt products released in the 1970s. These products, while technically not "video games" are an early example of electro-mechanical games, which greatly contributed to the rise of the early arcade industry.

Nintendo was the predominant producer of light guns for the home in Japan at this time, and they had obtained a contract with Magnavox to produce the light gun peripheral for the first home video game console, the Magnavox Odyssey. Nintendo's involvement in the project gave them direct insight into the North American video game market, which likely influenced them to bundle a Light Gun (alongside R.O.B.) with the NES in North America. If it were not for the Light Gun, Nintendo may have not entered the home video game market at all.

 

[Pyra]

Can I just say it feels so good to list Ridley's stock icon under my name for mains finally?

So good

sweet victory

Looks like Ridley and Charizard are gossiping about the others.

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

So, I was doing some research for my Daitoryo thread, and I wanted to share with everyone my research on why Duck Hunt's inclusion is historical in a similar vein to Mr. Game and Watch and R.O.B.

Even if you don't consider my "historical character" idea to be worthwhile, I think this is worth reading if you're interested in the origins of Nintendo.

Duck Hunt has always been a historical rep in my mind, it just only clicked recently that he wasn't the main retro rep and that was rather Little Mac.

However something to note is that Sakurai only labels Duck Hunt as "this games surprise character" in the project proposal, meaning he might not be looking at it that way/it's just a coincidence. This is just oppinion, but I'm personally doubting a retro/historical rep this time because I do think this roster will be more fan and relevance driven. That and the biggest fan driven retro character was probably Takamaru, who got disconfirmed. I think the "Surprise" characters will be more in line with Ridley and Snake returning.

 

[Pazzo.]

Duck Hunt has always been a historical rep in my mind, it just only clicked recently that he wasn't the main retro rep and that was rather Little Mac.

However something to note is that Sakurai only labels Duck Hunt as "this games surprise character" in the project proposal, meaning he might not be looking at it that way/it's just a coincidence. This is just oppinion, but I'm personally doubting a retro/historical rep this time because I do think this roster will be more fan and relevance driven. That and the biggest fan driven retro character was probably Takamaru, who got disconfirmed. I think the "Surprise" characters will be more in line with Ridley and Snake returning.

I'm not 100% sure that Little Mac is a retro rep. I always saw him as the Little Mac from the Punch Out Wii-make, but this just may be an irrelevant point considering how close that was to the NES version.

He does have arcade alts. after all...

 

[Pacack]

Duck Hunt has always been a historical rep in my mind, it just only clicked recently that he wasn't the main retro rep and that was rather Little Mac.

However something to note is that Sakurai only labels Duck Hunt as "this games surprise character" in the project proposal, meaning he might not be looking at it that way/it's just a coincidence. This is just oppinion, but I'm personally doubting a retro/historical rep this time because I do think this roster will be more fan and relevance driven. That and the biggest fan driven retro character was probably Takamaru, who got disconfirmed. I think the "Surprise" characters will be more in line with Ridley and Snake returning.

Personally, I would be surprised to not see a Sakurai-style surprise. Even in Melee, which was lacking King Dedede, Wario, and Diddy Kong, mind, Sakurai thought it best to prioritize Mr. Game and Watch as a surprise character.

I'm pretty confident that this was a love letter to Nintendo's history, as Mr. Game and Watch represents Nintendo's first major financial success. I can't see how he'd be considered at all if not as a "surprising character with historical significance to Nintendo."

I'm not 100% sure that Little Mac is a retro rep. I always saw him as the Little Mac from the Punch Out Wii-make, but this just may be an irrelevant point considering how close that was to the NES version.

He does have arcade alts. after all...

Sakurai has stated outright that Little Mac was inspired by his Arcade and Famicom iterations.

Punch-Out!!” arcade machines were in operation thirty years ago. The game was copyrighted in 1983–the same year that saw the birth of the Famicom.

Everything about the game was incredible to me: the wire-frame avatar and the cartoonishly exaggerated opponents, the multi-screen display reminiscent of the Nintendo DS, the synthesized speech. In a genre that tends toward launching punches at random, this game stood out as one that encouraged you to logically consider how to attack the opponent.

I suppose the Famicom version of the game is far more popular–which I of course understand, but its arcade predecessor is a classic in its own right.

Little Mac was considered as much of a retro to Sakurai then as we consider Excitebiker to be now. He may have had other games, but his claim to fame was (and is) his classic titles.

 

[SquashiniKun]

I just had this thought, what if the surprise character is the ULTIMATE surprise character, the character literally no one would see coming, the character that would dramatically increase the entire smash community's hype, The character that literally requires Sakurai breaking one of his rules on who should be in smash.
What if the surprise character...
was Goku?
I mean think about, he's one of the most requested characters in Smash 4, and nobody would even expect him due to not him originating from a game. That's why he would be the ULTIMATE surprise character.

 

[Pacack]

I just had this thought, what if the surprise character is the ULTIMATE surprise character, the character literally no one would see coming, the character that would dramatically increase the entire smash community's hype, The character that literally requires Sakurai breaking one of his rules on who should be in smash.
What if the surprise character...
was Goku?
I mean think about, he's one of the most requested characters in Smash 4, and nobody would even expect him due to not originating from a game. That's why he would be the ULTIMATE character.

Ironically, because you (and others) have thought about this, he would be seen coming by some people.

And, tbh, Mickey Mouse and Popeye are superior fourth party reps.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

I just had this thought, what if the surprise character is the ULTIMATE surprise character, the character literally no one would see coming, the character that would dramatically increase the entire smash community's hype, The character that literally requires Sakurai breaking one of his rules on who should be in smash. What if the surprise character... was Goku? I mean think about, he's one of the most requested characters in Smash 4, and nobody would even expect him due to not originating from a game. That's why he would be the ULTIMATE character.

Honestly I think Goku could be the one of the only characters to surpass Cloud in terms of pure, unadulterated net hype generated, alongside characters like Mickey Mouse. Him being in Smash could cause an internet s***storm of rage and hype.

Plus, Goku vs. Mario could actually be a thing. That's ridiculous.

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

I just had this thought, what if the surprise character is the ULTIMATE surprise character, the character literally no one would see coming, the character that would dramatically increase the entire smash community's hype, The character that literally requires Sakurai breaking one of his rules on who should be in smash. What if the surprise character... was Goku? I mean think about, he's one of the most requested characters in Smash 4, and nobody would even expect him due to not originating from a game. That's why he would be the ULTIMATE character.

I literally see this as a possibility, maybe as the last DLC fighter. The fact the Bandai does the Dragon Ball games makes this feel right...I personally wouldn't care either way EXCEPT that it opens the flood gates for all kinds of crappy requests and I do think that's something that Sakurai is wary of.

Also...after characters like Cloud and Bayonetta and now Ridley, there aren't a lot of game changers. Sure Hanafunda would be a surprise, but it's way more a huh? surprise and defintely not a hype surprise. With this possibly being the last iteration of Smash, at least before a reboot, I could see something as crazy as Goku being the most hype possible character.

 

[Zeox]

Can I just say it feels so good to list Ridley's stock icon under my name for mains finally?

So good

sweet victory

I know, i feel the same.
Rip Bowser, got replaced by some space dude.

 

[KMDP]

I just had this thought, what if the surprise character is the ULTIMATE surprise character, the character literally no one would see coming, the character that would dramatically increase the entire smash community's hype, The character that literally requires Sakurai breaking one of his rules on who should be in smash.
What if the surprise character...
was Goku?
I mean think about, he's one of the most requested characters in Smash 4, and nobody would even expect him due to not originating from a game. That's why he would be the ULTIMATE character.

If he comes with "Ultimate Battle", we golden.

EDIT:

A character we would never see coming.

 

[Jexulus]

Personally, I would be surprised to not see a Sakurai-style surprise. Even in Melee, which was lacking King Dedede, Wario, and Diddy Kong, mind, Sakurai thought it best to prioritize Mr. Game and Watch as a surprise character.

I'm pretty confident that this was a love letter to Nintendo's history, as Mr. Game and Watch represents Nintendo's first major financial success. I can't see how he'd be considered at all if not as a "surprising character with historical significance to Nintendo."


Sakurai has stated outright that Little Mac was inspired by his Arcade and Famicom iterations.


Little Mac was considered as much of a retro to Sakurai then as we consider Excitebiker to be now. He may have had other games, but his claim to fame was (and is) his classic titles.

Coming soon to Smash Ultimate: "Ultra Hand reaches out!"

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

You know, doesn't Sean Schemmel even already voice Lucario in Smash? That's one thing that can make this theory hold water. Although...

Ironically, because you (and others) have thought about this, he would be seen coming by some people.

And, tbh, Mickey Mouse and Popeye are superior fourth party reps.

Popeye would be much more fitting in regards to Nintendo's legacy, yes.

 

[KMDP]

You know, doesn't Sean Schemmel even already voice Lucario in Smash? That's one thing that can make this theory hold water. Although...

Makes it impossible to ask him if he's done work for Smash... because, well, yes, he has!

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

If he comes with "Ultimate Battle", we golden.

EDIT:

A character we would never see coming.

You know what I change my mind. I think a Persona character would be a new level of hype, especially in Japan, and I could see it happen because Sakurai loves the series and is a weeb.

Honestly I forgot there are still cool 3rd party possibilities before we jump to things like Goku. We should get those first.

(Also I always for get the name of that song from Persona 5 but that would be amazingggg to battle to. I haven't seen enough of the game, but that casino area would be a cool arena too)(Last Surprise! Yea that one lol)

 

[Pacack]

Popeye would be much more fitting in regards to Nintendo's legacy, yes.

Disney has quite the place in Nintendo's legacy also, though. Namely, the first products Nintendo made aside from Hanafuda cards were Western-style cards with Disney characters on them. They also produced a ton of merch for the Mouse in the form of board games and the like.

Spoiler: Large images

Some really odd matchups happened during that time, actually. Not often you see Donald Duck and Aurora interacting.

Of course, Popeye got a similar treatment. Though, he wasn't quite as popular as Mickey and co.

Spoiler: Large Image

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Why oh why? Must we used this word ''fourth party."

So unintelligent sounding. So laughable.

There's first party, second party, and third party.

4th party is literally impossible.