Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Shroob]

Just watch.
Smash run won't return but smash tour will.

I'm going to have to ask you to politely leave.

 

[Wyoming]

K. Rool has a 50/50 chance at best. The evidence pointing to his inclusion are all circumstantial, but nothing guaranteed or something to scoff at.

It all depends on:

1. How well he scored on the ballot. He has an online presence which bodes well for a statistic: he's popular in a somewhat decent number base across the globe, but that represents only 1% (and that's being somewhat generous) of the community and that's where the bias lies. Just because the numbers are high and steady for a very small base, that means it will remain that way outside of that group.

2. If he scored highly: How much Sakurai wants to use the ballot for characters. He clearly doesn't think playable status is all that is needed for a role in the game considering Bomberman, Krystal, and Waluigi got AT'd. Interestingly enough, those first two suffer from lack of relevancy when the project plan was established - just like K. Rool.

3. How many DKC fans actually like K. Rool over, say, Dixie Kong who was actually playable in those games and features in modern DK games. It's easier to be attached to a playable character than a villain, no matter how memorable the latter is.

I love K. Rool, but he and Ridley are not the same. The only things they have in common are a big online community and they are both villains. Relevancy, and roles in past Smash games they are worlds apart. Ridley actually was involved in the series in possibly the biggest ways outside of being playable in Brawl and Smash 4. K. Rool was a trophy in both.

We'll see, but when it is possibly a coin toss depending on how Sakurai feels about his Corn Flakes that morning, agreeing to disagree is the best option lol.

 

[Hinata]

Just watch.
Smash run won't return but smash tour will.

Don't you put that curse on us.

It's only been ten days since the direct and we're already starved for info. I wasn't on the boards for Smash 4, but I assume the waiting is definitely something we're gonna have to get used to?

Yup, this is the Smash Speculation Experience™.

 

[Billybae10K]

Just watch.
Smash run won't return but smash tour will.

And all the trophies used for Smash Tour are the ballot winners. That's the real truth behind the ballot, it's to pick new Smash Tour powerups

 

[KMDP]

I'm still going to stick with Sakurai's "Don't expect too many newcomers" comment. I really want to stay conservative about the roster number until proven otherwise.

Yesterday, I made a post talking about that.

"Don't expect too many newcomers" could mean two things.

1) "There's probably going to be new guys in the single figures this time."
2) "Don't get too hyped and think there's going to be, like, 20 new guys."
With how vague Japanese (and English) can get, we can't know until the game comes out, really.

 

[Will]

I loved Smash Run, it just needed a few tweaks and more than just one big map (I'd blame the 3DS on that). I even played it at the Best Buy Invitational, and I had a blast (this was back when I was so confident I would main Bowser).
Smash Tour, however... yeesh

 

[CannonStreak]

Just had a thought: Do you guys think it is plausible that after the reveal of the next newcomer, right after it, they give us a hint on who the next newcomer that will be revealed in the future might be? All in the same Direct, video or whatever?

 

[Untouch]

New speculation:
Can smash tour be redeemed, and how?

 

[Shroob]

I wouldn't lose any sleep if Smash Tour and random stat Equipment went away forever, those can stay in Smash4 like how Stickers stayed in Brawl for all I care.

At LEAST give us a shop to buy Mii Outfits with coins this time, making them as rare and random as hat drops in Team Fortress 2 was ridiculous.

 

[Jedisupersonic]

I only want one thing from Smash Tour and, that is a mode where every stock is a different character.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

I realize I haven't been commenting as often, and there are reasons for that, but all I can say is that I'm still beyond excited for this game. I got all my mains in one game, everybody from every game is back, I just about cried in front of my colleagues...oh yeah, it was a great day.

I've been spending a lot of time watching reaction videos, and I especially love the Nintendo NYC reaction. Those are good ol' fashioned Smash fans right there. I think it's funny that prior to the trailer, Snake was called a pipe dream or considered "not Nintendo enough", but then gets the biggest pop in every reaction video. While that's probably a mix of surprise and fans not expecting it, it gives me chills every time I see it. Not to mention, I like seeing people happy, especially when I feel the same emotion when I see the reveals. It's just awesome.

I would like to take a moment to bring up the bit of news we learned a few days ago in that development started during/while DLC was being developed.

Not trying to brag, but I TOTALLY CALLED THAT AND NOBODY BELIEVED ME. I TOLD YOU.

Ehem, er...sorry about that.

Now, considering the implications of that information, there are a few ways this game could end up. As I might include a few bullet points, the first thing I will address before that is what I feel is obvious. I firmly believe that many of the votes in the ballot were directed at missing veterans. I firmly and truly believe that veterans like Snake, Wolf, and the Ice Climbers (add PKMN Trainer in there too while we're at it) topped the ballot. While they probably didn't win the ballot, I think it's entirely plausible that Sakurai and co. saw this data, and decided to go that route with the roster.

Few side notes about this particular piece:
- If you're mad that all vets are back, get over it. That's the silliest thing to be mad about when this is probably the greatest roster ever compiled in history. This is basically the Infinity War of gaming. (Hell yeah!)
- It makes me feel good to think that manning the original Snake4Smash4 Twitter account might have done something to get him in the game. Shout out to the Snake thread. You guys encouraged me to do that, and you all fought the good fight when I couldn't.

Back to the "ways this game could end up":

There just might be a good chance this game ends up including ONLY ballot choices, SOME ballot choices AND Sakurai picks, or unfortunately only a few newcomers.

If the Vergeben leak holds up (which, I still believe it because no, Ridley was NOT A SAFE PICK. NEITHER WAS SNAKE. STOP SAYING THAT), then that would mean Simon Belmont is in. I personally don't see us getting more than 10 characters in this game, and I'm not sure if I include Echo characters in that tally just yet.

If that were to hold up, we'd have 7 newcomers left after Simon, Ridley, and Inklings. This gives plenty of room for Ballot picks and Sakurai newcomers. If the Ballot is taken into heavy consideration, that leaves a lot to consider. I do believe that being assigned as an Assist Trophy is a disconfirmation, and the absence of an Assist Trophy reveal for a previous Assist Trophy does not make them more likely to be playable. We were just literally shown this game. We should still be at least keeping our expectations low for particular characters making the leap to playable.

While I do not want to throw my hat into the ring to say that any particular character is "TOTALLY HAPPENING Y'ALL", considering we got Ridley and potentially several other ballot choices, I do think that at least one of Dixie Kong or King K. Rool will be joining the roster. There is simply no way that either of the two performed poorly enough to fall to the wayside. While I myself refer to the Smash fanbase as an echo chamber, there are particular characters that can beat that. I believe Ridley and K.Rool are two characters who can do that.

I'll probably make a Roster Maker pool of characters that still have a shot (I'd love input if anybody wants to give any), but I'm considering the Echo characters as well. I see Daisy as yet another Ballot pick, but was easier and faster to make as an Echo. It seems to me that Echo characters (clones previously) get in literally because they're similar enough to another character. Lucina, Daisy, and Dark Pit wouldn't be in otherwise.

Because of the new presentation of "Echo fighters", I have a hard time thinking Daisy is the only one. I certainly don't think there's going to be a huge presence of like, 7 of them. But I can definitely see maybe 2-3 more. Characters like Chrom (based on Ike) potentially come to mind. (Yes, I realize all that crap from Wii U about Chrom being "a mix". But Sakurai has changed things, blown everyones minds with this game. Expect the unexpected, I say.)

Another Echo I could totally see happening, is (waiting for the salt reaction to this) Isabelle. Isabelle is without a doubt the next character in line for Smash in terms of Animal Crossing considering Tom Nook is out of contention, and she's very popular among the fans. This doesn't mean I don't think she has any potential of her own (although an entire moveset of either "accidentally hurting people" or "summoning public works projects" both seem bizarre to me), i just can totally see this as another case of fans screaming about the potential of the character and then seeing them turned into an Echo.

That's it for now...sorry for the long wall. I got a bit excited there.

 

[Makai Wars]

I still think we're getting less than or exactly 10 whole fighters, echo or otherwise. The roster is already massive and outside of a few characters like Springman and Decidueye I'd say we've checked all the boxes, don't forget a ton of Smash 4 prerelease was spent praying [your main] didn't get cut.

I personally already have my Inklings and Ice Climbers, so I'm happy with the roster as long as there's no more Fire Emblem.

 

[Honest Slug]

Smash Tour is something that I would not miss at all. The final battle where you can have multiple characters as stocks has potential to be a fun mode though.

 

[Will]

New speculation:
Can smash tour be redeemed, and how?

No, and Smash Run should replace it because Smash Run was actually good.

I wouldn't lose any sleep if Smash Tour and random stat Equipment went away forever, those can stay in Smash4 like how Stickers stayed in Brawl for all I care.

At LEAST give us a shop to buy Mii Outfits with coins this time, making them as rare and random as hat drops in Team Fortress 2 was ridiculous.

Can we just admit that Equipment was Smash 4's equivalent of Stickers? They served the same purpose.

 

[Billybae10K]

New speculation:
Can smash tour be redeemed, and how?

It can be redeemed by staying in Smash 4.

 

[KMDP]

It's only been ten days since the direct and we're already starved for info. I wasn't on the boards for Smash 4, but I assume the waiting is definitely something we're gonna have to get used to?

Just watch.
Smash run won't return but smash tour will.

Personally, I'd really like a mode based on Fortune Street.

I know, I'm crazy.

 

[Jedisupersonic]

Personally, I'd really like a mode based on Fortune Street.

I know, I'm crazy.

Fortune Smash where stages become Fortune Street Boards.

Gotta stop Ganondorf from buying out that local laundrymat

 

[Untouch]

I wouldn't lose any sleep if Smash Tour and random stat Equipment went away forever, those can stay in Smash4 like how Stickers stayed in Brawl for all I care.

At LEAST give us a shop to buy Mii Outfits with coins this time, making them as rare and random as hat drops in Team Fortress 2 was ridiculous.

Equipment should be cut just so we don't have to go through what the smash 4 community went through in regards to equipment legality.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Ten newcomers in the initial roster sounds about right to me. Ridley, Inkling, Daisy, a new Pokemon, a new third party character, a new clone (echo, semi, or Luigified), three characters that make us go "huh, that makes sense", and then a patented Sakurai Choice™ that's either a billion years old or literally only 5 people wanted. Then I could see an additional 3 or 4 DLC where they just go slam bam "who ordered the ham" on popular requests that people thought were practically impossible.

 

[Jedisupersonic]

Equipment should be cut just so we don't have to go through what the smash 4 community went through in regards to equipment legality.

Yeah we don't need smooth lander debates again.

 

[Will]

Personally, I'd really like a mode based on Fortune Street.
I know, I'm crazy.

It's a niche way of getting coins I'd reckon, more than gambling online for who's gonna win a fight. I like Monopoly, so this ain't so bad.

Gotta stop Ganondorf from buying out that local laundrymat

Now you must pay in pennies instead of quarters Welcome to TRUE darkness.

 

[KMDP]

Fortune Smash where stages become Fortune Street Boards.

Gotta stop Ganondorf from buying out that local laundrymat

Fortune Smash is exactly the name I'd give it.

To be honest, it wouldn't even be that hard or resource intensive. And Fortune Street, when you know what you're doing, is fun as hell.
Plus, as a benefit, it would give players a roundabout way to play as Assist Trophies. (The dreaded return of Waluigi's Bridal Boutique.

We really need a new Fortune Street in the west, I don't care how much the Japanese fans hated the Wii version. It was the only one we got! OTL

 

[Zinith]

Fortune Smash where stages become Fortune Street Boards.

Gotta stop Ganondorf from buying out that local laundrymat

You think THAT'S bad, Yoshi would buy a studio to make a movie write-off!!!

See, creativity with memes people!!! Git Gud!!!

 

[Jedisupersonic]

Now you must pay in pennies instead of quarters Welcome to TRUE darkness.

How devilish, Xehanort would be proud.

 

[Lady Byakugan]

In the "everyone is here" trailer yes, but in the showcase, it went Mario, Link then Ice Climbers

which one is that?

 

[Shroob]

While I'm content with the roster, I just wanna see how the banner will look when more characters get added.

When that thing's done, it's going to be the most legendary piece of Nintendo crossover artwork to ever grace us, ever since AbyssWolf's Brawl sprites.

 

[Will]

Throw a bone for Waluigi in Fortune Smash, name a location Waluigi's Pinball & Arcade.

 

[Omega Tyrant]

Sakurai is also the man that gave Pit swords in Brawl instead of making him a dedicated archer, though. And he likes grapplers if Ganondorf (his main) is anything to go off of.

Sakurai maining Ganondorf is a myth, based just off of that one video of him playing a single match on some Japanese game show. When asked about who he mains, he once stated Captain Falcon in the early 2000s and then every time afterward has been insistent he has no favorite.

 

[KMDP]

Now you must pay in pennies instead of quarters Welcome to TRUE darkness.

How devilish, Xehanort would be proud.

: Money is the heart's true essence! That and whiter than white shirts.

 

[Zinith]

which one is that?

Right after the "Everyone Is Here" trailer, Sakurai went into detail certain characters. Mario was first, Link was next, then Ice Climbers. If Ike is the next person to be showcased, then there's a pattern

 

[Will]

: Money is the heart's true essence! That and whiter than white shirts.

You think that's evil? He'll use dark magic to make a red sock appear in your machine mid-wash so it'll stain all your whites.

 

[Murlough]

I wouldn't lose any sleep if Smash Tour and random stat Equipment went away forever, those can stay in Smash4 like how Stickers stayed in Brawl for all I care.

At LEAST give us a shop to buy Mii Outfits with coins this time, making them as rare and random as hat drops in Team Fortress 2 was ridiculous.

I want rng based unlocks completely removed. Make coins the standard reward and characters/stages rewards based on doing certain things like completing targets mode with "____." Make us use coins to unlock the other stuff like Mii Costumes and customs if they choose to keep them. Maybe even give us the option to purchase characters with coins if some of the missions are too difficult or for those of us who want to quickly play the characters we are hyped for.

This kills the stupid RNG BS that was Smash 4 unlocks AND it makes coins worth something.

Also, bring back the slot machine trophy dispenser from Melee. I don't know why but I was obsessed with that thing. I went for hours just trying to unlock the trophies so I could read the summaries. I didn't even bother with the trophies in 4...

 

[blackghost]

I'm pretty sure one of the reasons why Bayonetta was chosen for Smash 4 DLC over others was that they wanted to save some of their big guns for Smash 5. We still don't know a lot of the top picks, especially in the US.

This is why I never thought Inklings would make it at the time.

inklings couldnt be dlc in smash 4 for one major reason: their ink itself. smash 4 had no physics to apply ink to the ground or opponents. they would not be added without that mechanic present much like if theclock item wasnt in brawl and smash 4 bayo wouldnt be in smash 4 dlc becuase witch time is fundemental to her game design and character. sakurai prides himself on placing chaarcters in close to thier original portrayal smash 4 couldnt do inklings.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

While I'm content with the roster, I just wanna see how the banner will look when more characters get added.

When that thing's done, it's going to be the most legendary piece of Nintendo crossover artwork to ever grace us, ever since AbyssWolf's Brawl sprites.

I'm impressed by the fact they managed to make it loop around so smoothly. Also, that reminds me that Card Sagas War will never be a thing due to technical memory issues with Mugen,,,

 

[Sharkarat]

Clones and Retros and are the hardest part of the roster to predict. But the real hardest part is roster size. That and people's wants is the reason for most prediction misses, not because "Sakurai choose random surprise characters", pretty much with the exception of the retro pick where his coices are more unique.
Easy to guess who can be a clone, harder to guess who get in as a clone.

I firmly believe that many of the votes in the ballot were directed at missing veterans. I firmly and truly believe that veterans like Snake, Wolf, and the Ice Climbers (add PKMN Trainer in there too while we're at it) topped the ballot. While they probably didn't win the ballot, I think it's entirely plausible that Sakurai and co. saw this data, and decided to go that route with the roster.

they pretty much says this in this in the Bayonetta reveal.

 

[Pakky]

Just watch.
Smash run won't return but smash tour will.

But why you gotta be like that?

 

[monadoboy]

Good paper mario games are popular and we havent gotten one of those for the last 2 games

Didn't Sticker Star sell well enough?
Paper Mario is in a weird spot because of all the Miyamoto stuff.

 

[**Gilgamesh**]

Geno / Sora / Black Mage would be the most interesting 3rd party characters for me and ironically Square-Enix was apart of it. I see Square-Enix getting a 2nd Rep imo just due to how popular their characters are. (Black Mage / White Mage both appeared as characters in Mario Sports mix to my pleasant surprise}

 

[Pacack]

Sakurai maining Ganondorf is a myth, based just off of that one video of him playing a single match on some Japanese game show. When asked about who he mains, he once stated Captain Falcon in the early 2000s and then every time afterward has been insistent he has no favorite.

He also played Ganondorf when the Treehouse had him play, didn't he?

 

[Omega Tyrant]

He also played Ganondorf when the Treehouse had him play, didn't he?

No he was playing Link. There's never been a consistent character Sakurai has played in the very few recorded instances we have of him playing Smash.