Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Pacack]

Most who played a SNES played DKC as a series, with 1 and 2 becoming some of the best damn platforms in history in the eyes of my generation. (3 a bit less so, but still up there)

This is factually inaccurate.

The SNES sold 49 million units vs. 9 million units of DKC and ~5 million for DKC2. That's impressive, but is by no means "most" of the SNES userbase.

From there, anyone who knew DK went on to see the cartoon, and if not the cartoon, DK64. One of the hypest games at the time. It was EVERYWHERE. You weren't cool if you didn't play it (though some game design has not aged well.)

I won't comment on the cartoon, but DK64 sold 2.3 million, which was good, but significantly less than DKC2.

Put bluntly, K. Rool should have been in since Melee just from a pure hero-to villain perspective. Mario had Bowser. Link had Ganondorft. Pokemon had Mewtwo. It just made sense. DK64 was still fresh back then anyway. All other omissions aside, it was an obvious inclusion that slipped through the Kraks.

So, should we include Kamek, Captain Syrup, Medusa, Medeus, and the like just to include a villain from every series in Smash?

K. Rool has merits, absolutely, but he was in no way more deserving than were for Melee.

Believe what you will. It won't change our minds.

This alone reveals that you're not looking for facts in this.

 

[Makai Wars]

Honestly I think part of why they're so upset is because of the Daisy deal, they tend to both only show up in the Spinoffs, etc etc.

I get that part, but in terms of development time, Daisy was pretty much a non factor. Take Peach, spruce up her moves and give her some new animations and bam, echo fighter.
Waluigi's lanky body would mean he can't be a clone of anyone, so he'd need to be built from scratch, thus taking up as much development time as a full on newcomer and honestly we have tons and tons of better options to take said devtime before Walmart Luigi. Maybe when Waluigi actually shows up in a game that's not sports, like a mainline Mario game, or even helping Wario in WarioWare, I'd be happy to welcome him, but until then "silly guy who drives a go-kart" fits the 'Assist Trophy' category perfectly.

 

[CannonStreak]

>K. Rool, former antagonist of the Donkey Kong Country series who hasn't had a major appearance 19 years and has been abandoned by his own series.
VS
>Spring Man, mascot of Nintendo's new up-and-coming IP Arms that has seen a push from Nintendo similar to Splatoon
>Rex and Pyra, main characters of Xenoblade Chronicles 2, the best-selling game of the Xenoblade series, Nintendo's up-and-coming RPG series.
>Bandana Dee, a main character in the Kirby series for ~7 years and stands with the likes of King Dedede and Meta Knight in terms of prominence

If you think K. Rool has more all-star power than these characters then you need to rethink the definition of all-star.

Some of those may have been just guesses, but even then, K. Rool definitely has been around much longer than those guys, even Bandana Dee who is still new compared to King K. Rool, and believe it or not, just because someone is from a new IP or a best selling game doesn't mean they are that much of all-stars. Stars don't necessarily become big in the beginning, for they must build themselves up over time, if you know what I mean. Rex, Pyra and Spring Man have not done that.

 

[monadoboy]

He was talking about how overblown K. Rool was in the Smash fanbase. I was pointing out that Ridley had that same following. There were also "reasons" he would never get in as well and yet here he is.

I feel like I should say again that it might be time to step back and look at this Smash as an entirely different beast from the franchise. Snake would never come back before this game. There was no way they would bring Young Link in with Toon Link. There was no way Pichu would ever see the light of day again. Ridley would never ever get in. There's no way Sakurai would ever try to appeal to eSports. Yet that all changed with one trailer. Point is, just because a character has this reason or that reason against him doesnt mean he won't get in. As a matter of fact I think Waluigi still has a chance to make it in DLC. We cant just dismiss characters anymore. We did that. And it blew up in our face.

I never said he wasn't getting in or anything, just pointing out how overstated his popularity/chances/etc. are in comparison to the greater audience.

 

[Wyoming]

The whole Mario section? Other than Yoshi and Dr. Mario, what else bothered you about that section?

Bowser and Junior not being together.
Peach and Rosalina not being together.
Yoshi placed in the middle of it rather than starting a different pattern from himself to Diddy as "support" Mario characters.

Dr. Mario I get was in a clone section so meh, but still not pleasing to see him, Lucina, and DP not with their home series.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I simultaneously want K.Rool confirmed and deconfirmed just to shut up both sides of this annoying back and forth.

Neither side is moving an inch.

Move on.

 

[Billybae10K]

Yo, Ice Climbers just got featured as Today's Fighter on the Smash Blog.

"6/21/2018
Today's Fighter
#15: Ice Climbers
Back in the battle after a ten-year absence! There are two of them, so does that make them twice as strong as other fighters?"

 

[Untouch]

Yo, Ice Climbers just got featured as Today's Fighter on the Smash Blog.

"6/21/2018
Today's Fighter
#15: Ice Climbers
Back in the battle after a ten-year absence! There are two of them, so does that make them twice as strong as other fighters?"

Guess that debunks the theory of a character focus every week.

 

[MattOnwheels]

Your dedication gets my upmost respect, I do hope for all of you K.Rool fans. So you can feel that same rush I did when I saw Sonic clashing with Mario and posing beside him back in that old Brawl trailer.

I do like DKC and respect its legacy, I didn't get into it as say a good chunk of you lot but I can definitely respect the desire for K.Rool and again I do hope you can see him realized in Smash.

You have no idea how gratifying it is to hear that. Yes, I may seem heated, but I stand by every word I say. I know he isn't a "Shoe-in" (if that were the case logic dictates he would have been in by Brawl at the latest) but Ridley's Inclusion DOES set a precedent! Feedback matters, and while it may not have worked this year for Waluigi, as long as he isn't deconfirmed, we're going to keep fighting for K. Rool and that's that. I encourage ANYONE to keep supporting their characters. TO HELL with what anyone. thinks. YOU have the power to make things happen. Never give up.

 

[Will]

Rex, Pyra and Spring Man have not done that.

They have done one thing: Make a ****ton of money.

Haven't seen K. Rool do that.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Guess that debunks the theory of a character focus every week.

Eh?

What was this theory?

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

Anyone hoping Waluigi to make it in as DLC despite him already being an Assist Trophy are setting themselves up for disappointment.

Plus Sakurai immediately deleted all the death threat tweets sent to him regarding Waluigi. I think that alone speaks volumes of his opinion on the matter.

 

[Jedisupersonic]

Yo, Ice Climbers just got featured as Today's Fighter on the Smash Blog.

"6/21/2018
Today's Fighter
#15: Ice Climbers
Back in the battle after a ten-year absence! There are two of them, so does that make them twice as strong as other fighters?"

Reminds me of this quote from Tales of Symphonia

"If one sword has a power of 100, then using two swords would make it 200, right?"

 

[CannonStreak]

They have done one thing: Make a ****ton of money.

Haven't seen K. Rool do that.

LOL At least! I must admit to that.

 

[DGAMER]

They are going in the order from the direct. Mario, then Link, then Ice Climbers. The direct tells us what fighters will be spotlighted.

 

[StrangeMann]

I simultaneously want K.Rool confirmed and deconfirmed just to shut up both sides of this annoying back and forth.

Neither side is moving an inch.

Move on.

Feel much the same way about Pokemon and Xenoblade (although since the project plan was 2015 it's tending to be more mild, more people thinking Elma is likely)

 

[Untouch]

Eh?

What was this theory?

Earlier on in the thread people were suggesting that if we had a character feature every week up to release it'd show of the number of new characters.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Some of those may have been just guesses, but even then, K. Rool definitely has been around much longer than those guys, even Bandana Dee who is still new compared to King K. Rool, and believe it or not, just because someone is from a new IP or a best selling game doesn't mean they are that much of all-stars. Stars don't necessarily become big in the beginning, for they must build themselves up over time, if you know what I mean. Rex, Pyra and Spring Man have not done that.

K. Rool has been around longer, sure, but that doesn't automatically make him an all-star.

By your own logic that all-star status must be gained, it can also be lost, and K. Rool has surely long lost his all-star status as he hasn't had a major appearance in 19 years. Also, he's been abandoned by his own series. You can't be an all-star if your own series doesn't want you.

Similarly, all-star status can be built fast, and it has for characters like Rex and Pyra and Spring Man. Maybe they're not at their height, but they're definitely more relevant than K. Rool, subjective "all-star" status aside.

 

[Zinith]

If their going by the order of the Direct, then 17 characters will be last...

And my boi is one of them

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

They are going in the order from the direct. Mario, then Link, then Ice Climbers. The direct tells us what fighters will be spotlighted.

Rip Zinith then................................

'd by who else

 

[Wyoming]

They are going in the order from the direct. Mario, then Link, then Ice Climbers. The direct tells us what fighters will be spotlighted.

Nice catch.

 

[Pacack]

You have no idea how gratifying it is to hear that. Yes, I may seem heated, but I stand by every word I say. I know he isn't a "Shoe-in" (if that were the case logic dictates he would have been in by Brawl at the latest) but Ridley's Inclusion DOES set a precedent! Feedback matters, and while it may not have worked this year for Waluigi, as long as he isn't deconfirmed, we're going to keep fighting for K. Rool and that's that. I encourage ANYONE to keep supporting their characters. TO HELL with what anyone. thinks. YOU have the power to make things happen. Never give up.

My dude, I'm not trying to tell you to stop supporting a character you want. I'm just trying to tell you that Ridley's inclusion doesn't make him a guarantee.

I know I may not seem like it, but I actually want K. Rool. I think he's a worthy addition and I would love to see him in, especially if it means he appears in DKC again.

But I don't think it's wise to confuse hopes and expectations.

 

[KMDP]

I've been caught up for years now, I'm well versed in the series and read the latest chapter when it came out a few days ago.

Spoiler: Part 8 stuff

Seriously what the hell happened to Speed King?
2013:
View attachment 149476

Literally four days ago, 2018:
View attachment 149477

I'm actually not caught up with Part 8, I got about midway through the part with the Biker Stand, and then switched laptops and haven't gotten around to continuing. Same deal with My Hero Academia, I got to the end of the License Exam arc and then haven't gotten around to it.

Yo, Ice Climbers just got featured as Today's Fighter on the Smash Blog.

"6/21/2018
Today's Fighter
#15: Ice Climbers
Back in the battle after a ten-year absence! There are two of them, so does that make them twice as strong as other fighters?"

If they have wobbling, then yes, they are stronger than the average fighter.

 

[Billybae10K]

Earlier on in the thread people were suggesting that if we had a character feature every week up to release it'd show of the number of new characters.

Actually, it still works. For the last two weeks, assuming posts go up every Tuesday through Friday (In my EU timezone at least) we've had three fighters per week. If next week, we get three more fighter spotlights and that is the same up until release, we'd have 78 character spotlights. So that implies 12 new characters if my theory holds up.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

I never said he wasn't getting in or anything, just pointing out how overstated his popularity/chances/etc. are in comparison to the greater audience.

That's... my point. He and Ridley both had the "overstated popularity" that was all I was getting at.

 

[Jedisupersonic]

They are going in the order from the direct. Mario, then Link, then Ice Climbers. The direct tells us what fighters will be spotlighted.

I thought Samus was shown after Mario? Or am I getting stuff mixed up

 

[monadoboy]

most popular Newcomer speculation thread by far with over 68 pages and growing

This means absolutely nothing at all. This website is an echo-chamber that means nothing in the greater audience. Just look at the ballot results.

I love how everyone seems so defensive when I never said he's not getting in or anything.
If K.rool is so popular then why isn't he in the DK main games instead of getting small cameos and mii costumes? Nintendo's not stupid enough to dismiss a character as "popular" as y'all painting k.rool to be.
Obviously things might change, but they haven't yet.
Just like Ridley pre-Smash 4, he had many things going against him and ended up not happening, and just because Ridley made it doesn't mean everything this website or any other group of fans want will happen.

 

[Zinith]

I thought Samus was shown after Mario? Or am I getting stuff mixed up

In the "everyone is here" trailer yes, but in the showcase, it went Mario, Link then Ice Climbers

 

[Hinata]

They are going in the order from the direct. Mario, then Link, then Ice Climbers. The direct tells us what fighters will be spotlighted.

If your theory holds water, then next will be Ike.

 

[Honest Slug]

This means absolutely nothing at all. This website is an echo-chamber that means nothing in the greater audience. Just look at the ballot results.

Just because we don't know if K Rool did well on the ballot doesn't mean we can say he didn't do well on the ballot either.

 

[monadoboy]

That's... my point. He and Ridley both had the "overstated popularity" that was all I was getting at.

I just doubt Ridley's popularity was as overstated as K.rool's is now, seeing as how much more prominent Ridley has been during k.rool's absence.

 

[Shroob]

So we're getting 3 character spotlights a week via PotDs?

How many weeks will it take before we run out?

 

[Jedisupersonic]

In the "everyone is here" trailer yes, but in the showcase, it went Mario, Link then Ice Climbers

I got my wires crossed oops, thanks for clearing it up.

 

[Untouch]

You can't base anything off the ballot because we don't know the actual results.
The direct said that bayonetta was just #1 based on "realizable characters", so we don't even know if she truly was #1.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Ugh.

People simultaneously overstate and understate K.Rool's popularity.

K.Rool doesn't have some gigantic lead when it comes to popularity. He's popular but not a definite leader. If you think he is, you're delusional.

K.Rool ALSO isn't some obscure oneoff character that no one cares about. People clearly do and he has a sizable and notable fanbase that has been acknowledged several times. If you think he doesn't have that, you're delusional.

Now shut up about K.Rool.

 

[GaroMaster]

So we're getting 3 character spotlights a week via PotDs?

How many weeks will it take before we run out?

Seems like it would take around 20-22 weeks.
Does that sound about right?

 

[CannonStreak]

K. Rool has been around longer, sure, but that doesn't automatically make him an all-star.

By your own logic that all-star status must be gained, it can also be lost, and K. Rool has surely long lost his all-star status as he hasn't had a major appearance in 19 years. Also, he's been abandoned by his own series. You can't be an all-star if your own series doesn't want you.

Similarly, all-star status can be built fast, and it has for characters like Rex and Pyra and Spring Man. Maybe they're not at their height, but they're definitely more relevant than K. Rool, subjective "all-star" status aside.

I didn't say that long-runningness was the only thing that makes them an all star, did I?

Plus, if K. Rool has lost any of his all-star-ness, who do many people still give a care about him and still want him in Smash? I'd say K. Rool has hardly lost any of his all-star-ness, let alone appeal, or else he wouldn't get a Mii costume in the last game, don't ya think?

Maybe in that sense, but to me, K. Rool still has some all-star power in him, and quite a lot from what I see. Also, some of his all-star power is what Spring Man and Rex and Pyra don't have yet. Like I said, there is more to all-star power than just selling fast, ya know.

 

[Hinata]

So we're getting 3 character spotlights a week via PotDs?

How many weeks will it take before we run out?

At 3 a week, if my math is right, it'll take us 22 weeks to run out of currently known characters to spotlight.

 

[Honest Slug]

I wouldn't put too much stock into character spotlights yet, there's a lot of content we don't know about. When they run out of characters there's plenty of other things to focus on.

 

[Jedisupersonic]

So we're getting 3 character spotlights a week via PotDs?

How many weeks will it take before we run out?

Roughly 21 weeks?