Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[NonSpecificGuy]

Dr. Eggman strike your fancy?

Edit: In a mech, perhaps?

He's the most preferable of all of them, yeah. But seeing as they already have a problem with Villain reps from Nintendo's own games I find it unlikely he'd be the choice.

 

[monadoboy]

On K.rool, I think everyone greatly overestimates him from personal experience. I've been playing Nintendo since I was a baby, basically (there's a picture of baby me holding a NES controller somewhere), but I have clear memories starting from the SNES era, and I exclusively played Nintendo for my whole life. Granted, I didn't play every game, but I played as many games I could get my hands on. I remember renting a ton of games on Blockbuster, including Donkey Kong games that I never finished. All of my friends in grade, middle and high school played Nintendo games, or at least Pokemon. I tried to get my hands on as many Nintendo Powers I could, since I only had internet access like 12 years ago.

But the only memory I have of K.rool is the Crystal Coconut movie. So when I started to lurk around Smash speculation, I was baffled to see K.rool having so much support in the Smash circles. I have never met someone irl who remotely cared or knew about K.rool. In my opinion, he is by far the most overblown character in the Smash speculation echo-chamber. To the point that I wondered if I missed something, but not really.

I don't have any opinion on him myself, I just don't care, but people here seem to go through as many mental hoops as possible to justify his "inevitable" presence in Smash. Obviously he can get in, but it has to be ballot or something like that, and even then, I would not bet on him being as high in the ballot as lurking these boards make it seem.

 

[Wyoming]

I honestly would find a new Sonic rep the most boring choice of all of them. Deserving maybe, but I dont necessarily think any Sonic character is ideal. I'd love someone like Raiden, or Black Mage, or Rodin, but Tails and Knuckles and Shadow etc. just seem so bland to me. Maybe it's because they are so similar to Sonic in their games? I dunno.

You are right, but mostly because the other series' have more variety in terms of powers, abilities and/or weapons at their disposal than the Sonic crew. I am not interested in mechs, realistic guns, or semi/full on clones of a character that spins for 3/4 of his moves so obviously a bias on my part.

Amy would be the most unique and interesting Sonic character for me but that's not happening.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

On K.rool, I think everyone greatly overestimates him from personal experience. I've been playing Nintendo since I was a baby, basically (there's a picture of baby me holding a NES controller somewhere), but I have clear memories starting from the SNES era, and I exclusively played Nintendo for my whole life. Granted, I didn't play every game, but I played as many games I could get my hands on. I remember renting a ton of games on Blockbuster, including Donkey Kong games that I never finished. All of my friends in grade, middle and high school played Nintendo games, or at least Pokemon. I tried to get my hands on as many Nintendo Powers I could, since I only had internet access like 12 years ago.

But the only memory I have of K.rool is the Crystal Coconut movie. So when I started to lurk around Smash speculation, I was baffled to see K.rool having so much support in the Smash circles. I have never met someone irl who remotely cared or knew about K.rool. In my opinion, he is by far the most overblown character in the Smash speculation echo-chamber. To the point that I wondered if I missed something, but not really.

I don't have any opinion on him myself, I just don't care, but people here seem to go through as many mental hoops as possible to justify his "inevitable" presence in Smash. Obviously he can get in, but it has to be ballot or something like that, and even then, I would not bet on him being as high in the ballot as lurking these boards make it seem.

Er, Ridley says hello.

Edit: literally everything you just said applied to Ridley as well. Until he got in.

 

[Will]

Dr. Eggman strike your fancy?

Edit: In a mech, perhaps?

I AM THE E.G.G.M.A.N.

 

[Pakky]

Also Wouldn't mind

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Personally my EU & JP idea holds true we could actually see Isaac as the Golden Sun games were big in France. And France has got a lot more people in it than you'd expect.

 

[Sharkarat]

DK series fits what I said about age-group earlier, cause that cartoon is 18 years old.

Not at all, I get what you're saying, while the dedicated Smasher really wants K. Rool, the average Smash casual probably cast a vote for uh............Goku? Minecraft Steve? Basically NOT K. Rool.
Counterpoint to this however is Bayonetta, who's game is rated M. She's an extremely niche character who (allegedly) was the highest placing contestant in the EU. Call me K. Razy but I'd imagine that if the audience for Bayo came out to show their support, the audience for K. Rool would match numbers in droves.

Using a same company example, I think more in the direction of Smashers Wanting Geno while casuals wants Cloud.
And Bayonetta was fresh on everyones mind as star in her own nintendo-exclusive sequel the year before the ballot. K. Rool Hadn't been in a game in 7 years (which was mario sluggers) as a secondary character.
Going outside the Smash echo-chamber it really doesn't seems weird that she beats him.

Counterpoint: did the ‘casual Smasher’ know much about the ballot? I don’t want to assume K. Rool is in because I think he did well, but it also makes me wonder how many people voted in the ballot who were not involved in speculation on any website.

Also, the fact that Bayo is a new Nintendo exclusive and was really not mentioned online by anyone is suspicious. I’m to believe that none of these Bayonetta fans were online speculating, but some huge unseen fanbase all voted in unison for the same character? Smashboards has people all over the world, so if she was #1 in the EU, why didn’t people here know?

Probably a lot of casual smasher based on that fan-polls missed. And Casuals by definition aren't very loud. Remember hardcore smasher are like only a few percents of the full playerbase

 

[Will]

Also Wouldn't mind

Don't get confused. Mecha Sonic was a boss in Sonic 3 for Knuckles. Turbo Mecha Sonic is SMBZ, entirely new stuff.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Since we're on the topic of sleeper winners, anyone figure that Adol from Ys might make it in, even though he's usually not brought up? I could see that series' fanbase as one that's mostly silent.

Sonic's friends are about as similar to him as Mario's friends are to him. Like Luigi has a lot of similarites to Mario but he's still his own individual with only things he can do.

The same rings true of Tails, Knuckles, Shadow, Amy, etc.

Hell, the Street Fighter cast alone has a bunch of characters that are unique in their fighting styles and not just shotoclones.

 

[Shroob]

Er, Ridley says hello.

Edit: literally everything you just said applied to Ridley as well. Until he got in.

Ridley also didn't mysteriously fall off the face of the earth in his own franchise.

 

[Lady Byakugan]

Sonic's friends are about as similar to him as Mario's friends are to him. Like Luigi has a lot of similarites to Mario but he's still his own individual with only things he can do.

The same rings true of Tails, Knuckles, Shadow, Amy, etc.

It really depends on how different they WANT to make them. Tails, Shadow and Knuckles could be echos of Sonic all spinning around at high speeds, or they can be VERY unique with Tails' gadgets, Knuckles' power in place of speed, and Shadow's Chaos abilities.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Ridley also didn't mysteriously fall off the face of the earth in his own franchise.

That's implying that relevance is the ONLY thing that matters.

 

[Shroob]

That's implying that relevance is the ONLY thing that matters.

I mean, looking at the newcomers we got in Smash 4, barring Duck Hunt, kinda sorta yeah. Everyone appeared in a game in the past 5 years.

Relevance beats fan demand a lot of the time.

 

[Lady Byakugan]

Am I the only one who's baffled at the lack of Smash bros clones? Like, all I can think of is Playstation All Stars and that's it, and even then, the gameplay is awful. It's kinda bewildering with how popular the series is that other companies haven't tried to mimic it both in terms of the crossover aspect and gameplay.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Isabelle is in such a league of her own now that it's kind of dumb. If there's one major Nintendo breakout character since 2013, it's her. Let's go down the list:

-Has appeared in every Animal Crossing game since New Leaf.

-She has "spoken" in several Nintendo Directs to date.

-She had her own sticker set in Nintendo Badge Arcade.

-One of three ATs in SSB4 that got their own DLC costume.

-Nintendo acknowledged her birthday in 2014: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xcr4Hmb-L28&t=6s

-She has two Amiibos.

-She was playable in MF Mario Kart and Monster Hunter.

-She had cameos in Miitopia and Taiko Master.

This doesn't even put into consideration all the merchandise, regular inclusion in Nintendo commercials and social media sites, and popularity poll winnings. Hell, I feel like the only reason she missed out on SSB4 is because New Leaf was literally weeks old in North America when SSB4 primiered at E3 2013.

Yeah, pointing out her missing AT may be jumping the gun but, damn, she became a stupidly huge Nintendo icon in a goofy short amount of time to the point that she regularly rubs elbows with the icons that are now 30+ years old.

 

[Jedisupersonic]

Sonic's friends are about as similar to him as Mario's friends are to him. Like Luigi has a lot of similarites to Mario but he's still his own individual with only things he can do.

The same rings true of Tails, Knuckles, Shadow, Amy, etc.

Very much so, this is why Knuckles routes in 3&K and Mania to an extent are so different from Sonic's they're designed differently.

This is just one example of many too.

 

[Ze Diglett]

That's implying that relevance is the ONLY thing that matters.

Unfortunately, that's what some people seem to think... it's hard to believe it was only a couple weeks ago that new faces who are now considered dead in the water like Rex and Spring Man were considered shoo-ins.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Am I the only one who's baffled at the lack of Smash bros clones? Like, all I can think of is Playstation All Stars and that's it, and even then, the gameplay is awful. It's kinda bewildering with how popular the series is that other companies haven't tried to mimic it both in terms of the crossover aspect and gameplay.

There is also Brawlout and that Kickstarter game about indies bouncing around. As it turns out, imitating Smash is harder than it looks.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Am I the only one who's baffled at the lack of Smash bros clones? Like, all I can think of is Playstation All Stars and that's it, and even then, the gameplay is awful. It's kinda bewildering with how popular the series is that other companies haven't tried to mimic it both in terms of the crossover aspect and gameplay.

Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles had one. Cartoon Network had one.

There's been a few.

 

[Shroob]

Unfortunately, that's what some people seem to think... it's hard to believe it was only a couple weeks ago that new faces who are now considered dead in the water like Rex and Spring Man were considered shoo-ins.

To be fair, that was due to the Famitsu column, nothing else.

 

[Honest Slug]

Relevancy is not why Ridley got in. If that was the case he would've made it by Brawl.

Sakurai directly said fan demand is why he found a way to make him work.

 

[Lady Byakugan]

That's implying that relevance is the ONLY thing that matters.

imo relevance matters when we are talking about long running nintendo series with a consistent cast like Mario, DK, and Metroid. I say consistent cast because series like Pokemon, FE, and Xeno usually take characters that are relevant at the time of release of the smash bros game, and then, it doesn't matter if they fall into irrelevance. Take Jiggypuff or Pichu as examples, the former was relevant in the anime at the time and the latter was featured in the pikachu short prior to a movie. Granted, other factors played into their inclusions, like them being clones, but you get the idea.

 

[monadoboy]

Er, Ridley says hello.

Ridley and K.rool are an awful comparison. Just a few examples of what Rids boasts over k.rool: Ridley was in the Melee intro, he was a boss in Brawl, he has a whole stage in a random game (DoA), he was in the first minutes of Super Metroid, hails from all the way back to Metroid, he's in NintendoLand, he was in the Cpt. N show and is a crucial part of Samus' character. Anyone who knows Metroid knows Ridley. K.rool is nowhere near as prominent as Ridley.

I mean, Ridley's appearances in Smash alone overshadow K.rool's appearances in the last decade.

 

[KMDP]

It really depends on how different they WANT to make them. Tails, Shadow and Knuckles could be echos of Sonic all spinning around at high speeds, or they can be VERY unique with Tails' gadgets, Knuckles' power in place of speed, and Shadow's Chaos abilities.

'd by Lady Byakugan. XD I was just about to say a similar thing.

To expand on what she's saying:
Tails can fly, uses "Dummy Ring Bombs" in Sonic '06, and can spin dash. In Sonic Battle, he has a "ChuChu Bomb" (referencing ChuChu Rocket), and a mechanical boxing glove,
When we mention "Chaos Abilities", Shadow can teleport with "Chaos Control", can throw energy spears with "Chaos Spear", while also doing everything Sonic does (except Aerokinesis, which is unique to Sonic).
Amy has a hammer.

 

[MattOnwheels]

You are omitting the response that I believe is most likely.

"Uh...does he have one?"

He's recognized within his own series as a more recurring villain than any one-offs. That doesn't mean he's DK's Bowser so much as it means he's DK's Giygas.

Notable to his franchise? Sure. Notable to anyone who isn't specifically looking for a villain from the DK series? Eh...less so.

He hasn't been in a Donkey Kong Country game for 18 years. I am one of many people who grew up having never heard of him.

I didn't say that he was never going to be in Smash. But his situation isn't the same as Ridley's was. That's false equivocation.


What does about anything you said have to do with me being a Pac-Man fan? I assume you aren't comparing K. Rool's inclusion to Pac-Man's.

Maybe you haven'r been around DK fans much, but I'd say a lot of your post is incorrect. Gygass? Please. He was established in game after game as being the main villain for years.

You come across as someone screaming "YOUR WAYS ARE YOUR OWN, OLD MAAAAAAAN!" When you have no clue about his significance to the Kong mythos. Never mind any of the other things you posted. Your tone is off.

 

[Billybae10K]

Personally my EU & JP idea holds true we could actually see Isaac as the Golden Sun games were big in France. And France has got a lot more people in it than you'd expect.

I also know Golden Sun was fairly big in Spain at the time, so if France and Spain were part of a silent majority, dare I say it there's hope?

 

[monadoboy]

Isabelle is in such a league of her own now that it's kind of dumb. If there's one major Nintendo breakout character since 2013, it's her. Let's go down the list:

-Has appeared in every Animal Crossing game since New Leaf.

-She has "spoken" in several Nintendo Directs to date.

-She had her own sticker set in Nintendo Badge Arcade.

-One of three ATs in SSB4 that got their own DLC costume.

-Nintendo acknowledged her birthday in 2014: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xcr4Hmb-L28&t=6s

-She has two Amiibos.

-She was playable in MF Mario Kart and Monster Hunter.

-She had cameos in Miitopia and Taiko Master.

This doesn't even put into consideration all the merchandise, regular inclusion in Nintendo commercials and social media sites, and popularity poll winnings. Hell, I feel like the only reason she missed out on SSB4 is because New Leaf was literally weeks old in North America when SSB4 primiered at E3 2013.

Yeah, pointing out her missing AT may be jumping the gun but, damn, she became a stupidly huge Nintendo icon in a goofy short amount of time to the point that she regularly rubs elbows with the icons that are now 30+ years old.

She's so big she has two Nendoroids, and GSC only does characters that are guaranteed to sell (75% or more of nendos are waifu-bait) or are easy molds (Dark Pit).

 

[Lady Byakugan]

Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles had one. Cartoon Network had one.

There's been a few.

There is also Brawlout and that Kickstarter game about indies bouncing around. As it turns out, imitating Smash is harder than it looks.

I know there's been attempts, but I mean one that really captures the feel of SSB in terms of both gameplay and all-star power. I never played the TMNT one, so I can't speak on it's gameplay, but the fact that it isn't a crossover makes it fail as an SSB clone imo. Just as PSAS fails as an SSB clone due to it's gameplay shortcomings even though it has an all-star cast.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Ridley and K.rool are an awful comparison. Just a few examples of what Rids boasts over k.rool: Ridley was in the Melee intro, he was a boss in Brawl, he has a whole stage in a random game (DoA), he was in the first minutes of Super Metroid, hails from all the way back to Metroid, he's in NintendoLand, he was in the Cpt. N show and is a crucial part of Samus' character. Anyone who knows Metroid knows Ridley. K.rool is nowhere near as prominent as Ridley.

I mean, Ridley's appearances in Smash alone overshadow K.rool's appearances in the last decade.

He was talking about how overblown K. Rool was in the Smash fanbase. I was pointing out that Ridley had that same following. There were also "reasons" he would never get in as well and yet here he is.

I feel like I should say again that it might be time to step back and look at this Smash as an entirely different beast from the franchise. Snake would never come back before this game. There was no way they would bring Young Link in with Toon Link. There was no way Pichu would ever see the light of day again. Ridley would never ever get in. There's no way Sakurai would ever try to appeal to eSports. Yet that all changed with one trailer. Point is, just because a character has this reason or that reason against him doesnt mean he won't get in. As a matter of fact I think Waluigi still has a chance to make it in DLC. We cant just dismiss characters anymore. We did that. And it blew up in our face.

 

[Lady Byakugan]

'd by Lady Byakugan. XD I was just about to say a similar thing.

To expand on what she's saying:
Tails can fly, uses "Dummy Ring Bombs" in Sonic '06, and can spin dash. In Sonic Battle, he has a "ChuChu Bomb" (referencing ChuChu Rocket), and a mechanical boxing glove,
When we mention "Chaos Abilities", Shadow can teleport with "Chaos Control", can throw energy spears with "Chaos Spear", while also doing everything Sonic does (except Aerokinesis, which is unique to Sonic).
Amy has a hammer.

lol Really wish Sega would just give as a Sega All-Stars Battle game to make all this happen, since these characters getting into SSB together seems near impossible. And of course, such a Sega fighting game would have to be in SSB style, since I personally hate, hate, hate Street Fighter-esque or Arena-esque fighting games.

 

[KMDP]

Am I the only one who's baffled at the lack of Smash bros clones? Like, all I can think of is Playstation All Stars and that's it, and even then, the gameplay is awful. It's kinda bewildering with how popular the series is that other companies haven't tried to mimic it both in terms of the crossover aspect and gameplay.

Jump Super Stars and it's sequel, Jump Ultimate Stars, for the Nintendo DS come to mind.

The closest thing we'll get to Goku in Smash. XD

 

[Lady Byakugan]

Jump Super Stars and it's sequel, Jump Ultimate Stars, for the Nintendo DS come to mind.

The closest thing we'll get to Goku in Smash. XD

Those were pretty good. A shame really that Jump Force is going down a different route instead of expanding on JSS's gameplay

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

lol Really wish Sega would just give as a Sega All-Stars Battle game to make all this happen, since these characters getting into SSB together seems near impossible. And of course, such a Sega fighting game would have to be in SSB style, since I personally hate, hate, hate Street Fighter-esque or Arena-esque fighting games.

Easy, just get Sumo Digital to do it (not that I would mind arena-esque, we haven't had a new Power Stone since the Dreamcast days).

 

[Will]

Jump Super Stars and it's sequel, Jump Ultimate Stars, for the Nintendo DS come to mind.

The closest thing we'll get to Goku in Smash. XD

If Jump Force isn't powerful enough to melt the Switch, it could be the closest we'll ever get.

 

[Lady Byakugan]

Easy, just get Sumo Digital to do it (not that I would mind arena-esque, we haven't had a new Power Stone since the Dreamcast days).

They seem to be stuck on racing, considering all we've got from them has been All-stars racing, transformed, and now Team Sonic racing.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

They seem to be stuck on racing, considering all we've got from them has been All-stars racing, transformed, and now Team Sonic racing.

I thought they did that Tennis game?

 

[Pacack]

That's implying that relevance is the ONLY thing that matters.

No, it's implying that relevance is something that is considered, alongside other variables.

Compare Isaac and Shulk in Smash 4.

Maybe you haven'r been around DK fans much, but I'd say a lot of your post is incorrect. Gygass? Please. He was established in game after game as being the main villain for years.

Ergo my comparison. K. Rool is the most relevant of the Donkey Kong antagonists, sure.

But how well-known are Donkey Kong antagonists to begin with?

You come across as someone screaming "YOUR WAYS ARE YOUR OWN, OLD MAAAAAAAN!" When you have no clue about his significance to the Kong mythos. Never mind any of the other things you posted. Your tone is off.

This is ad hominem. You haven't said why anything I've said is wrong, you've simply attacked me for not agreeing with you.

 

[Lady Byakugan]

I thought they did that Tennis game?

That too, but I meant in recent years, all they've done for Sonic is racing games.

 

[Frihetsanka]

I know there's been attempts, but I mean one that really captures the feel of SSB in terms of both gameplay and all-star power.

Most companies don't really have the same number of notable IPs and characters as Nintendo does, especially if you want to make it strictly first-party. Rivals of Aether has really good gameplay but doesn't really have the "all-star power". Capcom could make a pretty good one though (with IPs like Ace Attorney, Bionic Commando, Breath of Fire, Dead Rising, Devil May Cry, Final Fight, Ghosts 'n Goblins, Ghost Trick, Mega Man, Monster Hunter, Resident Evil, Street Fighter, and Viewtiful Joe). They've already done some games like that, however: The Marvel vs. Capcom games, so it seems unlikely that they'd create a Smash clone (especially since Mega Man and Ryu are in Smash already).

Also, I think it'd be hard to compete with Smash. Even Rivals of Aether, which is a really good game, doesn't exactly have a huge playerbase.