Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Pacack]

Well I mean....they aren't the BEST option out there, nor the most accurate or anything like that, but Nintendo never gave us the real results so they're all we really have. It really should be noted that one common thread among the thousands and thosands of smaller online polls is that K. Rool placed high in all of them, regardless of website. It's not really CREDIBLE but it at least shows us that there's genuine demand for K. Rool in Smash

The results show that, among the hardcore fans who frequent gaming sites and vote on fan polls, K. Rool was popular.

Is it really presumptuous (given the limited sample size and the presumably older demographic) for me to conclude that older characters like K. Rool, Banjo and Kazooie, Isaac, Krystal, and Bomberman might have placed higher on online polls than on the actual ballot?

 

[KMDP]

If the three come back in Smash 6, they should split them up, as most people are over the novelty of transforming characters, and even Zelda and Samus have abandoned that aspect. That said, I think they should take the Red-Green alternate costume idea and give Charizard to Red, give Ivysaur to Green, and they can bring in Blue to take Squirtle, with said trainers acting as more of a cosmetic aspect rather than affecting how the pokemon play

Considering Blue and Green are switched in Japan (i.e. "Blue (Gary)" is "Green" in Japan), the Pokémon selections would probably be the other way around as a result, even if the Westerners don't get why.

 

[Makai Wars]

I think the lack of Stamina is so good for PKMN trainer not to mention how good Squrtle & Zard look so far, Ivy is looking kinda mediocre but still 3 characters in one with super fast switching is gonna be hella fun and potentially really good in compeitive play. (just adding to your statement)

One thing I'm floored about is the full on invincibility you get upon switching. Check it

Squirtle just eats Greninja's Fsmash for free, the entire animation is safe, I'd imagine the next Pokemon is also safe upon exit too, the best you can do to punish a random switch is maybe a grab? Because an attack will get parried. Really looking forward to seeing people do ad lib PT switch nonsense.

 

[Jedisupersonic]

One thing I'm floored about is the full on invincibility you get upon switching. Check it
View attachment 149465
Squirtle just eats Greninja's Fsmash for free, the entire animation is safe, I'd imagine the next Pokemon is also safe upon exit too, the best you can do to punish a random switch is maybe a grab? Because an attack will get parried. Really looking forward to seeing people do ad lib PT switch nonsense.

Yeah I saw stuff like that with ZeRo vs Leffen, although Leffen didn't push it much I noticed, ZeRo did whiff some moves because of it. The potential is absolutely insane.

 

[Sharkarat]

And Stamina wasn't the only bad thing about Pokemon Trainer. there was also the hilarious badly designed type effectiveness gimmick. that increased knockback.
Squirtle has the Damaging water Move, but there's also Fludd
Ivysaur literally only one with grass moves
And about half the cast has fire moves (13 whick has fire attacks that can be used to kill)

 

[Pacack]

Who would you say is the bigger villain of the DK series? The Tiki masks?

A. You did not answer any of my questions.

B. That's a strawman. My argument, that King K. Rool's situation is different from Ridley's, is a different one than you are putting forward.

 

[Jedisupersonic]

And Stamina wasn't the only bad thing about Pokemon Trainer. there was also the hilarious badly designed type effectiveness gimmick. that increased knockback.
Squirtle has the Damaging water Move, but there's also Fludd
Ivysaur literally only one with grass moves
And about half the cast has fire moves (13 whick has fire attacks that can be used to kill)

If they kept that mechanic just imagine the Roy v Ivysaur matchup lmao.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

K. Rool's most recent source of media was the references made in both Smash Bros and TF, with one being an entire costume based on the character. He is most definitely not unlikely.

The niche argument falls flat when characters like Ice Climbers were added

No. Sorry, but you don't get to use that argument. You can't just say "Ice Climbers got in, so therefore there aren't any standards."

Ice Climbers were chosen specifically to fill a role in which the criteria was to be a classic Famicom character. If any argument falls flat, it's the one you're using.

, and if we want to use not coming in until the finale as an excuse, why is Bowser and why was Bowser considered the most iconic villain in gaming when most of his portrayals have him show up as the final boss only in the main games and people constantly butcher his name as "Browser"?

Because that's not true.

 

[Will]

One thing I'm floored about is the full on invincibility you get upon switching. Check it
View attachment 149465
Squirtle just eats Greninja's Fsmash for free, the entire animation is safe, I'd imagine the next Pokemon is also safe upon exit too, the best you can do to punish a random switch is maybe a grab? Because an attack will get parried. Really looking forward to seeing people do ad lib PT switch nonsense.

People complaining about Charizard being forced back into a trio when that trio launches him into top tier.

 

[MopedOfJustice]

One thing I'm floored about is the full on invincibility you get upon switching. Check it
View attachment 149465
Squirtle just eats Greninja's Fsmash for free, the entire animation is safe, I'd imagine the next Pokemon is also safe upon exit too, the best you can do to punish a random switch is maybe a grab? Because an attack will get parried. Really looking forward to seeing people do ad lib PT switch nonsense.

I doubt intangibility covers anything but the lag of the switch itself, meaning you can still punish with anything.
Also, remember that parries aren't like in Third Strike, they still have startup. Additionally I think it's still unknown if you can parry while intangible.

 

[Jedisupersonic]

People complaining about Charizard being forced back into a trio when that trio launches him into top tier.

Duuude and Zard looks pretty buff this time around ontop of that, but maybe that's just the faster engine giving me higher opinions of everything right now haha.

 

[Dragoncharystary]

I hope the website starts revealing more ATs soon so we can stop it with the "X assist trophy wasn't seen at E3 so they must be playable!"

 

[Makai Wars]

The results show that, among the hardcore fans who frequent gaming sites and vote on fan polls, K. Rool was popular.

Is it really presumptuous (given the limited sample size and the presumably older demographic) for me to conclude that older characters like K. Rool, Banjo and Kazooie, Isaac, Krystal, and Bomberman might have placed higher on online polls than on the actual ballot?

Not at all, I get what you're saying, while the dedicated Smasher really wants K. Rool, the average Smash casual probably cast a vote for uh............Goku? Minecraft Steve? Basically NOT K. Rool.
Counterpoint to this however is Bayonetta, who's game is rated M. She's an extremely niche character who (allegedly) was the highest placing contestant in the EU. Call me K. Razy but I'd imagine that if the audience for Bayo came out to show their support, the audience for K. Rool would match numbers in droves.

 

[Jedisupersonic]

I hope the website starts revealing more ATs soon so we can stop it with the "X assist trophy wasn't seen at E3 so they must be playable!"

Shhh lemme keep my hopes up for Shadow a bit longer.

 

[Murlough]

One thing I'm floored about is the full on invincibility you get upon switching. Check it
View attachment 149465
Squirtle just eats Greninja's Fsmash for free, the entire animation is safe, I'd imagine the next Pokemon is also safe upon exit too, the best you can do to punish a random switch is maybe a grab? Because an attack will get parried. Really looking forward to seeing people do ad lib PT switch nonsense.

Wait it isn't punishable after the swap? How do we know that?

Honestly, if swapping is frame 1 Pokemon Trainer might be legit this time around. There are so many setups that a frame 1 escape destroys. Even more so if the opponent has to guess for the punish.

It's also really hype that you could just rack up damage with Squirtle or Ivysaur, depending on the Matchup, and then swap to Charizard once the opponent reaches kill percent.

Pokemon Trainer at high level is gonna be hype to watch.

 

[Will]

I hope the website starts revealing more ATs soon so we can stop it with the "X assist trophy wasn't seen at E3 so they must be playable!"

The only one I genuinely believe in is Dark Samus, just so Sakurai can make a joke about there being 3 Links and 3 Samuses (Samusi?).
Too many FE people for Chrom right now, Sakurai voiced his concerns with Corrin. The rest is just conspiracy tinfoil.

 

[Zinith]

A lack of evidence of Boshi means he's definitely gonna be in Smash!!!

I can logic...

 

[PsySmasher]

I hope the website starts revealing more ATs soon so we can stop it with the "X assist trophy wasn't seen at E3 so they must be playable!"

I hope they will too, but honestly, they’re probably just going to reveal information we already know for quite a while.

 

[ned_ballad]

People complaining about Charizard being forced back into a trio when that trio launches him into top tier.

In my travels on 4chan looking for silly fake leaks to read, I did stumble on this one, which actually mentions a solo charizard echo

i work in a factory making amiibo for nintendo. i know of there plans for the next year for amiibos we have started preproduction

Q3
- ridley
- inkling
- snake
- ice climbers

Q4
- incineora
- pichu
- wolf

Q4
- trainer deluxe amiibo

Q1
- king rool
- dixie kong
- youn link

Q1
- daisy
- dark samus
- charizard
- ninten

sorry thats it. no more

maybe next year there will be more

It has a surprising amount of posts for a dumb 4chan "leak"

 

[Jedisupersonic]

I hope they will too, but honestly, they’re probably just going to reveal information we already know for quite a while.

" is quite the speedy guy!"
" has teh ph1r3"

 

[Will]

It has a surprising amount of posts for a dumb 4chan "leak"

1. Because it's dumb
2. Because it has plenty typos
3. Because it's something to do while we wait forever.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Y'know, we never saw Devil as an AT. Maybe he's our new retro pick.

I'd genuinely laugh at the prospect of a villain getting in over the hero (whose trophy was barred from US Melee).

If Mach Rider or Excitebike happen, they're gonna be on their bike. Mach Rider probably works better because he can teleport and deteleport his bike for certain animations, but if Mach Rider's not riding his bike, then it isn't really Mach Rider, unlike Captain Falcon.

It's literally what makes him unique to begin with and it's in his name.

Good point, there. If anything, it'd be an interesting challenge to play as him, since you'd go fast constantly and try not to accidentally fall off.

 

[Shroob]

In my travels on 4chan looking for silly fake leaks to read, I did stumble on this one, which actually mentions a solo charizard echo

It has a surprising amount of posts for a dumb 4chan "leak"

But, 'Zard already has a Smash Amiibo.

 

[Wyoming]

I hope the website starts revealing more ATs soon so we can stop it with the "X assist trophy wasn't seen at E3 so they must be playable!"

Can't wait for the first bit of news that isn't from E3 personally. Think we're in for a wait, mind.

I think its time to reveal the next character, Sakurai. Smashboarders are getting antsy with the spinning around in circles!

 

[Pacack]

Not at all, I get what you're saying, while the dedicated Smasher really wants K. Rool, the average Smash casual probably cast a vote for uh............Goku? Minecraft Steve? Basically NOT K. Rool.

Probably characters like Shadow, Tails, Captain Toad, Daisy, Waluigi, Dixie Kong, Ashley, Impa, Bandana Dee, Inklings, Isabelle, and veterans.

Counterpoint to this however is Bayonetta, who's game is rated M. She's an extremely niche character who (allegedly) was the highest placing contestant in the EU.

Bayonetta was likely voted for by non-Nintendo fans with a casual interest in Smash Bros.

Bayonetta 2 not getting released on Xbox and Playstation had a huge outcry, and that shows that there was a group of people who liked Bayonetta despite not participating in hardcore Nintendo discussion.

That's how I imagine she won. And it makes more sense to me than assuming the ballot was rigged.

Call me K. Razy but I'd imagine that if the audience for Bayo came out to show their support, the audience for K. Rool would match numbers in droves.

Bayonetta has an active current fanbase. K. Rool has a more dormant past fanbase.

It's entirely possible that the type of votes we saw from fan ballots included the majority of his fans, while it only included a fraction of Bayonetta's.

 

[Lady Byakugan]

I hope Stage Builder is given a revamp. I hated smash 4's stage builder.

 

[Zinith]

Can't wait for the first bit of news that isn't from E3 personally. Think we're in for a wait, mind.

I think its time to reveal the next character, Sakurai. Smashboarders are getting antsy with the spinning around in circles!

There are certain characters left in the dust (Robin, Greninja, etc.) that I want to know more about, but especially Yoshi. The fact that one of the original 8 characters is MIA without even knowing what his Final Smash is is getting me both excited and concerned at the same time

 

[Slavic]

There are certain characters left in the dust (Robin, Greninja, etc.) that I want to know more about, but especially Yoshi. The fact that one of the original 8 characters is MIA without even knowing what his Final Smash is is getting me both excited and concerned at the same time

What would your dream Yoshi FS be, if I may ask?

 

[Zinith]

What would your dream Yoshi FS be, if I may ask?

Not a "dream" FS per say, but a solid prediction: Mega Eggdozer from Yoshi's New Island. A giant egg that will fly and bounce all over the stage destroying everything in its path. Luigi and Captain Falcon are the only other OG 12 characters whose FS's are MIA but it's safe to assume they won't change

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Can't wait for the first bit of news that isn't from E3 personally. Think we're in for a wait, mind.

I think its time to reveal the next character, Sakurai. Smashboarders are getting antsy with the spinning around in circles!

No kidding, the wait for December is already starting to feel like ages, and the main website doesn't consistently get updated daily even in Japan.

 

[Cyn]

Since we learned at E3 that all veterans were returning, I moved all still-relevant threads from the Veteran Speculation forum to here in the general forum and archived the rest of the Veteran Speculation forum. If you wish to view that forum and the remaining threads contained in it, it can be found here.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

With the amount of stages and playable/assist characters in Smash Ultimate...I have no idea how many old+new songs will be in the game...oh mythat's crazy

 

[Shroob]

In my travels on 4chan looking for silly fake leaks to read, I did stumble on this one, which actually mentions a solo charizard echo

It has a surprising amount of posts for a dumb 4chan "leak"

Like, lowkey, I'm absolutely fine with all of these choices but.... a 2nd Charizard?

I get that Zard probably lost Rock Smash and his Mega Form, but unless it was Mega-Zard X or Y at all times, how the hell would they differentiate him from Pokemon Trainer's 'Zard, appearance-wise?

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Not at all, I get what you're saying, while the dedicated Smasher really wants K. Rool, the average Smash casual probably cast a vote for uh............Goku? Minecraft Steve? Basically NOT K. Rool.
Counterpoint to this however is Bayonetta, who's game is rated M. She's an extremely niche character who (allegedly) was the highest placing contestant in the EU. Call me K. Razy but I'd imagine that if the audience for Bayo came out to show their support, the audience for K. Rool would match numbers in droves.

Counterpoint: did the ‘casual Smasher’ know much about the ballot? I don’t want to assume K. Rool is in because I think he did well, but it also makes me wonder how many people voted in the ballot who were not involved in speculation on any website.

Also, the fact that Bayo is a new Nintendo exclusive and was really not mentioned online by anyone is suspicious. I’m to believe that none of these Bayonetta fans were online speculating, but some huge unseen fanbase all voted in unison for the same character? Smashboards has people all over the world, so if she was #1 in the EU, why didn’t people here know?

 

[Lady Byakugan]

Does anyone know where it was ever said that there can only be one character per third party franchise? Because people seem to throw that around as a means of dismissing Shadow, yet I don't seem to recall such a thing being said by Sakurai.

 

[Shroob]

Does anyone know where it was ever said that there can only be one character per third party franchise? Because people seem to throw that around as a means of dismissing Shadow, yet I don't seem to recall such a thing being said by Sakurai.

There's no rule, but afaik, Sakurai treats 3rd parties as something akin to an honored guest.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Does anyone know where it was ever said that there can only be one character per third party franchise? Because people seem to throw that around as a means of dismissing Shadow, yet I don't seem to recall such a thing being said by Sakurai.

That was never said. It's just a made up rule by the fanbase. Smash fans tend to do that a lot.

Preferably I would only want one per franchise because usually third parties have a bunch of great properties that it feels like a waste to use the same ip twice.

 

[KMDP]

Does anyone know where it was ever said that there can only be one character per third party franchise? Because people seem to throw that around as a means of dismissing Shadow, yet I don't seem to recall such a thing being said by Sakurai.

Sakurai has never said anything about it, it's just one of those fan-created notions like rep limits for Mario, Pokémon and Fire Emblem.

 

[Wyoming]

Does anyone know where it was ever said that there can only be one character per third party franchise? Because people seem to throw that around as a means of dismissing Shadow, yet I don't seem to recall such a thing being said by Sakurai.

No source. it simply hasn't happened yet and people are assuming.

Honestly the only existing franchises worth a dip into would be Sonic, Final Fantasy and Street Fighter for a 2nd character imo. Mega Man, Pac-Man, and Bayonneta don't really have any standout characters aside from their main protagonist.

 

[MattOnwheels]

A. You did not answer any of my questions.

B. That's a strawman. My argument, that King K. Rool's situation is different from Ridley's, is a different one than you are putting forward.

Yes I did answer your question. Well, one of them. That being why do I feel he isn't a forgotten villain. You ask ANYONE who DK's big bad is, It's K Rool. He's Iconic to the series and has appeared in most of his games. DKCR and TF are the only main DK games to omit him. So, no. He's far from a relic.

Further, he's the same in the sense that now he is the new "Never gonna be in Smash, suck it, fanboys!" which is such a fallacy. I mean, for pete's sake, why am I explaining this to a PAC MAN fan! You of all people should know anything can happen and my reasoning for the support i give.