Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[KMDP]

Damage scaling is a terrible way to balance a game and it's a good thing that Smash in general has no use for it (move staling isn't the same). Putting in a system like that just because of Bayonetta would be nerfing every other character just to keep her gimmick. If it only applies to her, well, I'm sure Sakurai wouldn't do that since it's a huge mechanical difference that isn't visually obvious. Beyond that, it actually probably wouldn't be that much of a nerf for two reasons:
Some of what makes her so obnoxious isn't from true combos, so it would be difficult to apply effectively
Bayonetta has a lot of very weak attacks, so all taking less damage would do is cause her opponent to be trapped in combos for longer before they're knocked too far, which might actually result in her becoming slightly stronger, and certainly would make her even more unfun to play against.

Ah, well, I never really put much stock into that idea anyway. Like you just pointed out, it wasn't even a good one. XD

 

[Graizen]

So everyone will now believe that the game was already planned and finalized in 2015/2016?
This is very wrong.

 

[Zerp]

So everyone will now believe that the game was already planned and finalized in 2015/2016?
This is very wrong.

I mean, there was that "Smash 6" job listing way back when, this didn't come out of nowhere.

 

[Fenriraga]

Just read that and I think his comments on Geno mean nothing. For one thing he was asked the question, he didn't bring it up, it would've been weird if he avoided it. And all he mentions is Geno being a requested character and him thinking about making him playable during Brawl. Nothing here gives away his current thoughts on Geno. That and given how he was talking about the end of Smash 4 (Dec 2015 Direct) while also planning the next Smash shows Sakurai has a good "poker face" lol.

Just a thought but does anyone think we could get an echo fighter as a fighter of the day randomly? Doesn't seem they'll have full trailer reveals, so it would be a cool surprise. One could hope.

Shhhhhshshshshshshshhhh.
Let me have that glimmer of hope, it's more than others can say for their top picks.

Anywho, I feel Echo characters will go one of two ways: The way you said, with them popping up in the Blog with little to no fanfair outside of the obligatory 20 seconds of footage. Kinda like what they did with all the Veterans in 4.

But I also feel most Echo fighters will probably be secret characters. So we probably won't see most of them until launch.

So everyone will now believe that the game was already planned and finalized in 2015/2016?
This is very wrong.

...What is there to "Believe"? The words came from Sakurai himself. This is fact, my guy.

 

[DarkFalcon]

So everyone will now believe that the game was already planned and finalized in 2015/2016?
This is very wrong.

In terms of characters? Yes.

 

[Idon]

Well, with all this new info released, here are my brand new roster expectations

Spoiler: Roster

 

[JustCallMeJon]

Smash News: Sakurai and More Smash Ultimate Information.

Sakurai talks new info about Smash Ultimate in terms of development, roster, characters, and many decisions.
It is written in Famitsu but there is a translation thanks to SourceGaming.

Link:https://sourcegaming.info/2018/06/20/smash-is-special-part-1-sakurais-famitsu-column-vol-557/

Translation:

On June 13th, we unveiled a ton of information about Super Smash Bros. Ultimate. I often doubt myself while working on the game, questioning whether we can really release it within the year. The first proposal was completed in December 2015, back while we were still working on DLC for the previous title. It wasn’t until later that I assembled a team and began development on this new title in earnest.

Many of you are likely already aware, but the concept for this entry is total inclusion: “Everyone is here!”

Mod Edit: Respecting SourceGaming's request. Only the first two paragraphs of the post should be copied and pasted onto another site. The rest should be linked. Future posts of Sourcegaming's content should follow said request. Thank you.

 

[Will]

I am talking in how Sakurai's sees it.
Ridley had a lot of main games and battles to show abilities, Waluigi had a lot of spinoff games where he does what other characters do, like play tennis or race in a kart, can you blame him for seeing more potential in Ridley than in Waluigi?

The only thing that orignates from Metroid is his tail attack and fireball breath. The whole command grab thing was just a SSE reference in my eyes, unless I forget Metroid stuff. Where did his recovery even come from, the man has wings and he just does a Fire Fox.

 

[dezeray112]

You guys see this?

The project plan was finished in December 2015, when DLC for the previous game was still being developed. Gathering staff together for the new Smash was done later. pic.twitter.com/w1JyrtlKo7

— Source Gaming (@AllSourceGaming) June 20, 2018

Ok this means ultimate concept finished not too long after ballot finished

So this makes it far far more likely their eyes are pointed toward the most voted for in the ballot for smash ultimate

I think ballot characters with the most votes will be the base roster newcomers

Interesting. So I'm assuming with this, I'm guessing characters such as the likes of Rex & Pyra and Spring Man seem to be unlikely for the base roster?

Other than that, I could still imagine that they could still be in the game via the DLC route (if planned.)

 

[StrangeMann]

Smash News: Sakurai talks new info about Smash Ultimate in terms of development, roster, characters, and many decisions.
It is written in Famitsu but there is a translation thanks to SourceGaming.

Link:https://sourcegaming.info/2018/06/20/smash-is-special-part-1-sakurais-famitsu-column-vol-557/

Translation:

I'm assuming the "Risks" mentioned are related to Konami. I don't see anything else that would really be too risky about bringing all characters back.

 

[Will]

Players now select the stage before selecting their characters. This allows them to consider a fighter’s compatibility with the field of battle. If you set the rules so that the loser picks the next stage, this makes for a fairer competition.

God, that is going to be so uncomfortable for the first week. I will probably never get used to that.

 

[Graizen]

In terms of characters? Yes.

Very, very wrong.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

So everyone will now believe that the game was already planned and finalized in 2015/2016?
This is very wrong.

The project plan (which includes the full roster) was finished in December 2015. This was confirmed by Sakurai today.

That means that the full roster was decided in December 2015, bar exceptions (the only one really being Pokemon).

Very, very wrong.

Can you please explain your logic here? I don't understand.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

So I'm not sure if this was brought up earlier, but Sakurai has apparently gotten death threats and an attempted DDOS attack on account of Waluigi being an AT.

I want Waluigi to be playable too but isn't this taking it a BIT too far?

 

[BluePikmin11]

Shhhhhshshshshshshshhhh.
Let me have that glimmer of hope, it's more than others can say for their top picks.

This is a legitimate concern though.

 

[Will]

Very, very wrong.

The truth hurts, brother. Just let take it in. Acceptance is the path of the future.

 

[Fenriraga]

View attachment 149292
God, that is going to be so uncomfortable for the first week. I will probably never get used to that.

Aye, it was like that at E3 too. It's so insanely weird.

 

[DarkFalcon]

Very, very wrong.

Um, barring clones, I'm fairly certain this is one of the first things decided upon when the project plan starts. Clones can be added later, but most characters are decided very early on. There is one known exception to this, and it's Sonic in Brawl, and the game got delayed because of it.

 

[Chandeelure]

"Every single fighter that has ever appeared in the series is back and better than ever "

Bayonetta buffs confirmed.

 

[monadoboy]

Xenoblade Chronicles 2 just came out last year. That’s still pretty recent. Given that the game was an incredible success, has a major DLC update coming itself, and Sakurai loved the game, I don’t think it’s hard to see Rex & Pyra making it as a DLC newcomer. Not to mention, the potential for a unique moveset.

May I ask who are these other outshining options you speak of?

idk, I'm just keeping my expectations low.
But there's ARMS, Three Houses, Gen 8, BotW, some big game we might not know of, the usual third party speculated characters, and big first party characters that might not make it to main game (like K.rool, Dixie, Isaac, Kirby rep or something like that.)

 

[Pacack]

Honestly, the statement Sakurai made about Geno in 2016 makes me wonder if Geno was actually planned for Smash Ultimate in December 2015. Was he hiding something when he made that statement in April of 2016? I am getting skeptical and confused about Geno's situation right now.

I take his statement at face value; he wanted to include Geno because he was popular and interesting, but a Mii Costume was the best he could do.

Honestly, I think that quote hurts Geno more than anything. If Geno didn't become a reality before despite Sakurai acknowledging his fan requests, what has changed? The ballot won't suddenly make him aware of his popularity, since he already knows that he's popular, so what does he really have going for him now?

So, with all this exciting new info I updated my roster prediction to make it reflect the ballot, recent games as of the project plan, and Mii Costumes, which I feel will contain most, if not all of our newcomers:

Spoiler: Prediction Roster

View attachment 149285

All I'm saying is that it would make a lot of sense for Sakurai and his team to make the most of characters they're already making (Ashley, K. Rool, Chrom) and characters they've been given permission to use (Geno, Lloyd, Monster Hunter).

I like the roster except for a couple of things. Namely, I don't think Geno, Monster Hunter, or Lloyd have any realistic chance.

• Personally, I would urge you to consider more commonly requested third party characters from companies already involved in Smash. (Sega still has Tails, Eggman, and Shadow, Capcom has Phoenix Wright, Okami, and Felyne as an alternative Monster Hunter character, Square Enix has Slime and Sora*, Bandai Namco has Heihachi and KOS-MOS)
• I also would heavily recommend considering Captain Toad. I'd be extremely surprised to not get a unique Mario newcomer given how huge the franchise is for Nintendo.
• Lip is a bold pick for a retro, but one that I can still get behind.
• I don't believe Dixie Kong can be made into an Echo.

However, I applaud the inclusion of King K. Rool, Bandana Dee, Ashley, Elma, and Simon. I'm sorta neutral to the Chorus Kids, but they're not an unreasonable addition.

 

[Will]

"Every single fighter that has ever appeared in the series is back and better than ever "

Bayonetta buffs confirmed.

So is everybody's buffs confirmed, they're all just better than Bayonetta's to even it out.

 

[Fenriraga]

Um, barring clones, I'm fairly certain this is one of the first things decided upon when the project plan starts. Clones can be added later, but most characters are decided very early on. There is one known exception to this, and it's Sonic in Brawl, and the game got delayed because of it.

And even then, Sonic was in Sakurai's original draft, but Sega/ST refused.

...Then came back around more than a year later going "Actually put him in now pls."

 

[Will]

Sega still has Tails, Eggman, and Shadow

I think people are sleeping hard on Eggman. Do people not remember that sick ass mech he had in SA2?

And don't tell me you wouldn't lose your **** over E.G.G.M.A.N. playing on a stage.

 

[staindgrey]

Interesting. So I'm assuming with this, I'm guessing characters such as the likes of Rex & Pyra and Spring Man seem to be unlikely for the base roster?

Other than that, I could still imagine that they could still be in the game via the DLC route (if planned.)

Unlikely but not unfeasible. Particularly with ARMS, since that was developed in-house by Nintendo. It's possible that if Nintendo was all-in on ARMS, they could have given Sakurai concept art and initial gameplay early in development, which should have started before Smash.

Still unlikely given the timing and how companies typically hold off on going all-in with new IPs until they're confident they're coming together. But it's not impossible. With Rex & Pyra, I don't know how close Monolift Soft's relationship is to Nintendo, and whether character designs were far enough along to be handed to Sakurai in the first place.

 

[RandomAce]

Tbh, my roster predictions still stay the same, even with the information on the development time.

4-5 recent characters
3-4 Ballot picks
1 Retro
Maybe an IP revival character?

Max: 11
Min: 8

I’m not including echoes in this because they are made last minute, so they don’t require a lot of effort

I can see Sakurai going into characters from 2016 but not past 2017.

 

[Koopaul]

People keep bringing up Lip as a retro. But has a SNES generation character ever been considered retro in Smash? It seems like only NES and older are given that status.

 

[RileyXY1]

People keep bringing up Lip as a retro. But has a SNES generation character ever been considered retro in Smash? It seems like only NES and older are given that status.

There's also the fact that she's Japan only, which lowers her chances.

 

[Graizen]

The truth hurts, brother. Just let take it in. Acceptance is the path of the future.

Its hard to talk to you my friend.
But no, thats not the truth for me , so it will never hurt.

 

[Fenriraga]

I take his statement at face value; he wanted to include Geno because he was popular and interesting, but a Mii Costume was the best he could do.

Honestly, I think that quote hurts Geno more than anything. If Geno didn't become a reality before despite Sakurai acknowledging his fan requests, what has changed? The ballot won't suddenly make him aware of his popularity, since he already knows that he's popular, so what does he really have going for him now?

Because he was presented with the chance to include Cloud Strife. If you have the chance to pick one of the most iconic characters in all of gaming, of course you're going to jump on them first. Cloud is obviously a much bigger deal.

To me, the hopeless dreamer, I take it as "If I do get to work on another Square Enix rep, it's going to be Geno." I don't think that's an entirely unreasonable conclusion. Probably not a completely sturdy one, but I stand by it.

Its hard to talk to you my friend.
But no, thats not the truth for me , so it will never hurt.

I... What?

It IS the truth. It doesn't matter if it isn't "your truth" (Seriously what is this, a poetry slam?), it is THE truth. This is straight from the horse's mouth.

 

[SlickWylde]

I wonder how the process of putting in a 3rd party character goes. Does he design the character and figure out their moves, then ask for the rights? Or does he get the rights then design the character?

 

[Will]

But no, thats not the truth for me , so it will never hurt.

Denial is unhealthy, man.

 

[Koopaul]

There's also the fact that she's Japan only, which lowers her chances.

I wish these weren't factors. Fire Emblem in Melee and Lucas in Brawl proved to do well. The whole Japan only thing seems like a bad reason to keep out a character. But I do know that it is a barrier and something Sakurai thinks about.

 

[DarkFalcon]

Its hard to talk to you my friend.
But no, thats not the truth for me , so it will never hurt.

But it IS the truth. Plugging your ears saying "I can't hear you" doesn't stop it from being true.

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

Shhhhhshshshshshshshhhh.
Let me have that glimmer of hope, it's more than others can say for their top picks.

Anywho, I feel Echo characters will go one of two ways: The way you said, with them popping up in the Blog with little to no fanfair outside of the obligatory 20 seconds of footage. Kinda like what they did with all the Veterans in 4.

But I also feel most Echo fighters will probably be secret characters. So we probably won't see most of them until launch.

...What is there to "Believe"? The words came from Sakurai himself. This is fact, my guy.

Wait wait what? No I wasn't trying to say he wasn't likely! I was just saying I don't think his comments meant anything on his chances.

It's a good point that Sakurai was always aware of his fans so the ballot wouldn't change much, but there's still the possibility Sakurai could go back to the idea because this is a fan servicey game, so don't lose hope!

And yea echoes as secret characters make sense.

 

[**Gilgamesh**]

"Personally speaking, I find that, when I pick up a fighting game, I often put it down before I get around to playing all of the different characters. " - Sakurai

Does this mean that Sakurai acknowledges Smash Bros as a fighting game and not a PARTY game :DDDDD confirmed?!!!!!?

 

[GaroMaster]

I think people are sleeping hard on Eggman. Do people not remember that sick *** mech he had in SA2?

View attachment 149295

And don't tell me you wouldn't lose your **** over E.G.G.M.A.N. playing on a stage.

You know, Melee may have had the best villain newcomers, but I can see Ultimate matching it with Ridley and including K. Rool and Eggman.
I realize that is extremely unlikely, but that would be so cool.

 

[Icedragonadam]

I can't believe I'm saying this but even the most obsessed Daisy fans are far more tame compared to the obsessed Waluigi fans.

Also, the Mii Costumes = Ballot consolation prizes theory still hold right?

 

[Fenriraga]

Wait wait what? No I wasn't trying to say he wasn't likely! I was just saying I don't think his comments meant anything on his chances.

It's a good point that Sakurai was always aware of his fans so the ballot wouldn't change much, but there's still the possibility Sakurai could go back to the idea because this is a fan servicey game, so don't lose hope!

And yea echoes as secret characters make sense.

I know, which is why I was choosing to go the always popular "Nanananabooboo I can't hear you, that clearly helps his chances aaaaa" to anything remotely not in favor of my baby boy.

Jokingly, of course.

 

[DarkFalcon]

Eggman would low key be a really awesome addition. Charismatic, and has a lot of different weapons at his disposal.