Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[monadoboy]

DLC is always a possibility pal.

Yeah, but Rex doesn't seem as likely for DLC imo, considering timing, etc.

 

[Arcadenik]

>Sakurai compares the excitement of unlocking new fighters in Smash to the feeling of buying new cars in racing games using money earned from races.

>Though, unlocking every fighter in Smash should be simpler than buying every car model in one of those games.

>picture of Stunt Race FX

This may not mean anything, but if it implies there will be a stage based on that game, it's such a tease.

Stunt Race FX car as new retro rep confirmed.

 

[Deleted member]

Out of curiosity, what's the coffin in that analogy? Like, are you done with the series, orrrr...?

No. The coffin is my tolerance towards it.
I resentfully tolerated the Alolan forms in Gen 7, as well as the fact they gave a Mega evolution to one Pokemon that no one likes from Gen five. Then they remade the first Gen in the worst way imagineable.
I will not be buying this game. There's a limit to my consumer loyalty.

Honestly, they pander to gen1 because of people like me, who don't really play Pokemon anymore but have fond memories of it. I can name maybe ten pokemon past gen2, and they're almost entirely because of Smash.

I know, and that doesn't make me feel better about it.

 

[PsySmasher]

This is the problem honestly. How can the series progress if they are trying to please only the people who aren't in it anymore?

Sure referencing a little is nice but they are overdoing it as heck.

I think they're trying to build up the Pokemon player base for 2019. They did make it a point to say that Gen 8 is coming next year.

 

[Jubileus57]

I think they're trying to build up the Pokemon player base for 2019. They did make it a point to say that Gen 8 is coming next year.

Then why didn't they put every Pokémon in? Pokémon switch won't feature gen 1 and gen 8 only.

 

[Will]

... You know, that does bring up an interesting point. Are there any noticeable gaps in that massive piece of art? I know Ridley and Daisy didn't show up on it until after their reveals, of course.
Would they cram the remaining newcomers in with the rest of the crowd, or expand the picture?

1 minute in MS Paint later:

Spoiler: All the Red Circles are where I think you could plop someone

I had to settle for a URL since it was too big to upload.

 

[Troykv]

No. The coffin is my tolerance towards it.
I resentfully tolerated the Alolan forms in Gen 7, as well as the fact they gave a Mega evolution to one Pokemon that no one likes from Gen five. Then they remade the first Gen in the worst way imagineable.
I will not be buying this game. There's a limit to my consumer loyalty.

I know, and that doesn't make me feel better about it.

I'm not againt the existence of Let's Go... But damn... the game would feel so generic, like mobile game levels of generic if it wasn't for the fact it's Pokémon and has Pokémon Money.

 

[Murlough]

I'm curious, what'd be wrong if that's how Pokemon were chosen? Granted it'd be heavily in G1's favor but aside from that I don't see a problem.

YES.

"Recognizablility" is a subjective thing. Anyone who knows jack about Pokemon today can immediately recognize Mimikyu, Decidueye, and incineroar.

Just because some people stopped caring past Gen 2 doesn't mean we should only care about what they recognize, actually it should mean the opposite. They stopped caring. Why do they get to have their cake and eat it too?

Where's my cake?

In short, yeah thats a terrible way to decide newcomers. Pokemon didn't fall off the face of the Earth after Gen 2 and its dumb people want to pretend it did.

 

[Lady Byakugan]

IMO, I don't think they should try and force new Pokemon into the game if it's not needed. Pokemon's "main cast" of pokemon always changes with each generation, much like how FE or XBC's cast always changes. That doesn't mean these three franchises need a new rep every time a new cast of characters is presented. I mean, hey, look at LOZ. Zelda's had to go two games without a new, meaningful rep and Smash 5 will likely not give us another Zelda rep as well.

 

[Blargg888]

... You know, that does bring up an interesting point. Are there any noticeable gaps in that massive piece of art? I know Ridley and Daisy didn't show up on it until after their reveals, of course.
Would they cram the remaining newcomers in with the rest of the crowd, or expand the picture?

Above Samus and Below Rosalina. That's it really.

That said, I don't think the size of the mural is a reliable indicator of our remaining newcomers.

 

[Zerp]

Then why didn't they put every Pokémon in? Pokémon switch won't feature gen 1 and gen 8 only.

Because it's GameFreak and GameFreak is lazy, they probably would rather wait till next game to touch up all the Sun/Moon models for non-Gen 1 Pokemon.

 

[Deleted member]

IMO, I don't think they should try and force new Pokemon into the game if it's not needed. Pokemon's "main cast" of pokemon always changes with each generation, much like how FE or XBC's cast always changes. That doesn't mean these three franchises need a new rep every time a new cast of characters is presented. I mean, hey, look at LOZ. Zelda's had to go two games without a new, meaningful rep and Smash 5 will likely not give us another Zelda rep as well.

I've said it once and I'll say it again.
"Needed" is subjective.

 

[MopedOfJustice]

Rayquaza will never be as famous as this:
View attachment 149273

I'm tired of all these anime kickers
etc
Kicking is so overrepresented in Smash, if I wanted to look at feet I have imgur albums for that. It gets so stale looking at them doing things with their legs when it's all just kicking. Literally the only thing distinguishing Ryu from Sheik is that Sheik's projectiles work differently. I thought they were on the right track in Melee, giving Ganon dark particle effects on Wizard's Foot so there would be at least something different, but I guess they ran out of elements and now it's just more generic anime kicking.
They should use a style that actually has internal variation, like traditional weapons (e.g. swords). Those can be completely different in their structure and possible uses, meanwhile a leg is just a leg with no distinguishing traits.

 

[Deathcarter]

but do we know if it's just going to be ballot characters though? Smash has always included fan favourites as well as characters that represent relevant games, I don't see why this game would really be any different tbh. I think you're setting your hopes a little high if you expect all the newcomers to be chosen just because of the ballot

With the limited amount of newcomers we're getting thanks to all the returning veterans, I do think the newcomers will largely be ballot favorites and A-listers like Inklings and Isabelle. Unless we have a huge buffer of something like 12+ newcomers which is far more than I'm expecting (somewhere around 8 unique newcomers), there wouldn't be much room for her without kicking out a more popular character. She couldn't even beat Corrin back in Smash 4, I doubt she's getting in over Bandana Dee, Ashley, Gen 7 Pokemon, Dixie Kong, Captain Toad, Isabelle, K. Rool, Excite Biker or another retro, or any potential 3rd party like Simon Belmont, Steve, or Sora.

 

[Jubileus57]

Because it's GameFreak and GameFreak is lazy, they probably would rather wait till next game to touch up all the Sun/Moon models for non-Gen 1 Pokemon.

A shame, really, that really is like a backstab to nowadayw Pokémon fans. Not everyone does even like gen 1.

 

[Lady Byakugan]

I've said it once and I'll say it again.
"Needed" is subjective.

Never said otherwise

 

[staindgrey]

This is the problem honestly. How can the series progress if they are trying to please only the people who aren't in it anymore?

Sure referencing a little is nice but they are overdoing it as heck.

To clarify, I'm not at all saying it's the right decision. But people like me are the reason they're doing it.

My brother and I are contemplating buying Let's Go Pikachu/Eevee to have a simple, bigscreen way to relive our Pokemon nostalgia (he inherited my Yellow game when I moved onto Silver, so it's the one Pokemon we ever shared), and to have a reason to play Pokemon Go again. But had this been, say, a remake of gen4 instead with the exact same gameplay, we probably wouldn't be interested.

Ultimately, Nintendo has to cater to what sells the most. Whether that's a self-fulfilling prophecy or not is up to their marketing guys to decide. Eventually the kids who started with later generations will have a much larger market, and maybe then they'll shift gears.

 

[Will]

I missed a spot, you could lay someone down underneath Falcon. Popo is hammering down, so he's either trying to hit the Duck (he missed terribly) or he's clobbering at an unknown individual. Mysterious.

 

[SuperSmashStephen]

Yeah, but Rex doesn't seem as likely for DLC imo, considering timing, etc.

How do you figure that? DLC opens the door for so many characters that have since been released.

 

[KMDP]

... You know, that does bring up an interesting point. Are there any noticeable gaps in that massive piece of art? I know Ridley and Daisy didn't show up on it until after their reveals, of course.
Would they cram the remaining newcomers in with the rest of the crowd, or expand the picture?

If you look at the two currently known versions of the mural, before and after Daisy and Ridley were revealed, the other characters are ever so slightly pushed together in the picture with the two additional newcomers, so they can make room.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

But, and this is a big but, only because they were high doesn't means they are gonna be in the game.
I don't know how high any character did, but I would say that Waluigi got high, maybe even a little higher than Daisy just for the memes, yet he didn't made it.
And I think this is because, they don't just need to be high, but Sakurai must see potential on them (and if they don't, at least an easy way to make them echoes, like Daisy).
If Sakurai doesn't sees potential in K. Rool or Bandana Dee, he may not added them, so, nothing is confirmed yet.

Ridley finally made it and is the western and big man did a change of heart for us

And your telling me its not fan focused this time

 

[PsySmasher]

Then why didn't they put every Pokémon in? Pokémon switch won't feature gen 1 and gen 8 only.

Fair point. Game Freak might just want to stall for time to finish up the rest of the Pokemon models, plus Let's Go is highly connected with Pokemon Go, so it doesn't makes sense to add in all the Pokemon if Go is only up to like Gen 3.

 

[Jubileus57]

Fair point. Game Freak might just want to stall for time to finish up the rest of the Pokemon models, plus Let's Go is highly connected with Pokemon Go, so it doesn't makes sense to add in all the Pokemon if Go is only up to like Gen 3.

...Which is already 2 more generations than Let's Go tbh

 

[Questionmark222]

Has anyone seen Sakurai's new Famitsu column? Here's the link if not (https://sourcegaming.info/2018/06/20/smash-is-special-part-1-sakurais-famitsu-column-vol-557/). Gamexplain also just posted a video that sums it up (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cb3gWV-3_nE)

If you did read it, any comments? What he said about character unlock methods is pretty interesting imo.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Where's my cake?

The cake is a lie.

 

[Slavic]

obviously there can only be one Pokemon rep, who will represent the most beloved and important aspect of any of the Pokemon games with borderline instant recognizability.

Spoiler: This Guy!

 

[Pokechu]

I resentfully tolerated the Alolan forms in Gen 7, as well as the fact they gave a Mega evolution to one Pokemon that no one likes from Gen five. Then they remade the first Gen in the worst way imagineable.

You take that back.

Audino is the best Pokemon ever made. :'^(

 

[Lady Byakugan]

Speaking of LOZ, I really don't get why Zelda can't just be given her various designs as alternate costumes, like Twilight Zelda or OOT Zelda, instead of being replaced every few games. They did it with Link, giving him BOTW and his classic green tunic

 

[StrangeMann]

I'm currently on board with the thinking that our Pokemon rep is going to be Incineroar or Mimikyu, with a smaller chance of Decidueye, and Lycanroc behind that, followed distantly by minor alternatives.
Man Pokemon seems to be such a passionate topic: I would personally be okay with any of the gen 7 options getting in as they all seem pretty fun to me (although Lycanroc for me would be the least so, even though I think it would be fun for other people just not for me). It's entirely possible we get no one at all though, even though I've seen people argue that it's better no new Pokemon gets in at all over some of the options and I just can't understand it. I would say Sun/Moon has one of the best rosters of any region outside of Gen 3 and Gen 1, but I understand it's subject and matter of opinion.

 

[Noipoi]

YES.

"Recognizablility" is a subjective thing. Anyone who knows jack about Pokemon today can immediately recognize Mimikyu, Decidueye, and incineroar.

Just because some people stopped caring past Gen 2 doesn't mean we should only care about what they recognize, actually it should mean the opposite. They stopped caring. Why do they get to have their cake and eat it too?

Where's my cake?

In short, yeah thats a terrible way to decide newcomers. Pokemon didn't fall off the face of the Earth after Gen 2 and its dumb people want to pretend it did.

THANK YOU
I get that gen one started the series, it was a phenomenon, POKEMANIA they called it!
but that DOESN'T mean you have to ignore every other part of the franchise!
(Gen 5 cries in the corner)

 

[Arcadenik]

Yeah. I don't need any more Gen 1 Pokemon playable. I'm completely fine with Let's Go's existence since Gen 8 is coming in 2019, but that's the main reason why.

I do need one more Gen 1 Pokemon playable.

Meowth for Smash
Meowth 4 lyfe

 

[KMDP]

You take that back.

Audino is the best Pokemon ever made. :'^(

Audino just wants to help your team get stronger!

 

[RandomAce]

Konami's relationship with Nintendo also wasn't as good back then, yet Snake is coming back and Simon Belmont is looking pretty likely.
Remember when we all thought the Kojima controversy affected Snake's chances and Sakurai wouldn't put him in out of respect for Kojima? Well, look at where we are now.

Well the Kojima controversy wasn’t why I believed he got cut, Kojima still wanted Snake in Smash 4, but he still got cut despite Sakurai being friends with him.

If Simon gets in, it’s because he is an iconic character that also holds sentimental value to Sakurai.

I’m saying that unless there was noticeable support for Rayman, I’m not sure if he’s getting, or any Ubisoft rep. I do think if DLC comes around, a Ubisoft Rep is highly likely.

 

[Jubileus57]

THANK YOU
I get that gen one started the series, it was a phenomenon, POKEMANIA they called it!
but that DOESN'T mean you have to ignore every other part of the franchise!
(Gen 5 cries in the corner)

I feel you. I love gen 5.
Where is my darling Vanilluxe?

 

[Corbin]

>_>

<_<

You know, I would love to see Geno in Smash, if this song get in, remix or original.

They are many great songs in SMRPG, don't get me wrong, but hearing this song in Smash Ultimate would be like...
View attachment 149268
Perfection.

Oooh man, I would love this. If Geno gets in, I really would love a SMRPG level. Literally any location from the game would make me squeal.

 

[Fenriraga]

Speaking of LOZ, I really don't get why Zelda can't just be given her various designs as alternate costumes, like Twilight Zelda or OOT Zelda, instead of being replaced every few games. They did it with Link, giving him BOTW and his classic green tunic

If it's anything to go off of, someone who pretty much 99% correctly listed everything in the Smash presentation a day before the Direct said she'll still have her BOTW costume as an alt.
Either way, it's not too out there to assume more characters are going to get alts. With the sheer number we already have, and with costumes like 's Meta/Samus Returns look from his reveal not being in the demo, it's very likely something we'll see more of.

Cosmetics are usually something that a team focuses on more-so towards the end of development since the art/modeling team really doesn't have much to do but twiddle their thumbs. I got a good feeling we'll see more closer to release.

Also, where is that Bayonetta and Sonic pic in your avatar from? I know it's probably not official, but it's adorable.

 

[Deleted member]

You take that back.

Audino is the best Pokemon ever made. :'^(

Audino is a Pokemon?
I thought it was just a walking EXP Pinata.

 

[blackghost]

That’s implying Bayonetta isn’t going to be nuked before launch

Considering people that play her already said shes worse dont think much is gonna change. Most of this fanbasr wont be happy ubtil she cannot combo at all. The character thats getting nuked is pika. Easily was the best character in the demo.

 

[Troykv]

I had a little thought... Snake was the character added for pretty much the most selfish reasons, a gift for single child (MG means nothing to Nintendo, and that franchise pretty much doesn't exist in Nintendo outside of half-assed ports).

But somehow we ended up all loving his existence in Smash... Freaking Kojima, you make people love even your darkest ideas.

 

[Deathcarter]

What reason do you have to expect only ballot characters? You have no evidence that Sakurai would overlook new characters when deciding who to include.

It would have made sense to include Elma then, but Corrin was from a series that had much more proven sales potential. Further, Corrin was a transforming dragon unit, something Sakurai wanted to represent.

If Elma can't even beat Corrin despite Corrin being just as unestablished and his series still being B-tier then what would suggest she'd get in over more popular characters from bigger series.

Notably, having no popularity at the time would likely have been considered by Sakurai when looking at character choices. A character from a new game wouldn't be able to do well in the ballot because it wouldn't have a fanbase yet; therefore, Sakurai would have to make a judgement call to include some new characters that he believes will be popular.

Or you know, he just puts in Inklings, a few ballot newcomers, and the returning veterans instead of taking a risk on a character he already rejected once back during Smash 4. Besides, its not like the complaints about Xenoblade X's poor characters weren't already festering before Smash Ultimate started development. Even Tetsuya Takahashi himself noted the dissastisfaction with X's characters.