Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[---]

>Sakurai compares the excitement of unlocking new fighters in Smash to the feeling of buying new cars in racing games using money earned from races.

>Though, unlocking every fighter in Smash should be simpler than buying every car model in one of those games.

>picture of Stunt Race FX

This may not mean anything, but if it implies there will be a stage based on that game, it's such a tease.

I doubt a stage, but I'd love for some remixes from the game, particularly the title theme.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqIVRj7ldCM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHKbSDzM458

 

[Fenriraga]

Bayonetta got more songs than Cloud did, and released alongside Corrin. So time constraints wouldn't really work as a reason

Bayonetta, Platinum and SEGA were also already closely tied to Nintendo by that point, and her "remixes" are nothing more than instruments of her vocal songs with one or two added instuments. So that barely means anything.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Please guide us prophet. We mere mortals need your guidance.

Time to try something. Hey N3ON, will Master Chief make it in the game? *slides a 20 across the table*

 

[92MilesPrower]

I want to start to update my prediction roster, but I feel like I should wait a little bit for more news/info on the game.

 

[Zeox]

And arms rep

This is telling me the ballot characters with the most votes might be a base roster newcomers for this

Which would further the evidence that smash ultimate is focusing on fan requests for this one

Maybe daisy was pretty high on the ballot is how she got in.

But, and this is a big but, only because they were high doesn't means they are gonna be in the game.
I don't know how high any character did, but I would say that Waluigi got high, maybe even a little higher than Daisy just for the memes, yet he didn't made it.
And I think this is because, they don't just need to be high, but Sakurai must see potential on them (and if they don't, at least an easy way to make them echoes, like Daisy).
If Sakurai doesn't sees potential in K. Rool or Bandana Dee, he may not added them, so, nothing is confirmed yet.

 

[papagenos]

Regarding ballot popularity, Slime might be a genuine possibility since Square Enix is already involved in this game.

Dragon Quest is the best selling game series of all time for Japan, and the Slime is incredibly popular.

Slime could easily be the next bomberman, third party assist trophy.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

I think that, knowing when the project plan was determined, Mii costumes are more likely than ever to be what at least a few of our newcomers consist of. The purpose of them was to allow people to play as characters who were popular on the ballot. As has been mentioned, K. Rool even got entirely new textures. Knowing that the game was worked on alongside Smash Wii U DLC, it only makes sense that they developed that new K. Rool skin for a new character and then teased us with that costume using the same textures. Obviously not every one of those costumes get in, (Takamaru was already confirmed an AT), but it's a great place to start looking. Ashley, Isabelle, Viridi, Chrom, K. Rool, are all reasonable options in my opinion, Chrom and Viridi being the least likely of those if you ask me.

This is all speculation, but it makes one hell of a lot of sense.

 

[Deleted member]

I think that, knowing when the project plan was determined, Mii costumes are more likely than ever to be what at least a few of our newcomers consist of. The purpose of them was to allow people to play as characters who were popular on the ballot. As has been mentioned, K. Rool even got entirely new textures. Knowing that the game was worked on alongside Smash Wii U DLC, it only makes sense that they developed that new K. Rool skin for a new character and then teased us with that costume using the same textures. Obviously not every one of those get in, (Takamaru was already confirmed an AT), but it's a great place to start looking. Ashley, Isabelle, Viridi, Chrom, K. Rool, are all reasonable options in my opinion, Chrom and Viridi being the least likely of those imo.

This is all speculation, but it makes one hell of a lot of sense.

*cries in Takamaru*

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

*cries in Takamaru*

Cmon, Sakurai. Killing the two closest things we have to a Samurai in one short AT clip... *Cries in Lyn and Takamaru*

 

[Pacack]

How is this false? You cut out the fact that by end of Year X sold less than Xenoblade by the end of it's year.

"By the end of the year, a total of 114,665 were sold in Japan"
Where as according to what you state Xenoblade sold 160,000+ by end of year which was also a shorter time going from June to December than April to December for X.

Now Wikipedia could have the numbers wrong. I do think though that its not all based on sales. Part of the reason Shulk made it to Smash is because how big a deal Xenoblade was globally too. Not only that but I don't expect Elma to be looked at as a highly requested character in 2015.

Also sorry I'm responding so late, busy day for me.
Again if the numbers are off I'm just pulling from Wikipedia so that's fair. I think it's more than sales ultimately though.

Xenoblade Chronicles sold 161,000 units by the end of 2010 in Japan. What isn't mentioned is the Western sales.

"In a later interview, it was stated that [Xenoblade Chronicles] sold better in the West than in Japan." We can conclude from this that the game sold at least 400,000 copies worldwide, since it had sold 200,000 copies by the end of 2013. That's over three years, mind.

Xenoblade Chronicles X had sold 114,665 physical copies by the end of the year, which doesn't account for the 23,000 digital copies during May 2015. Together, that accounts for 137,665 copies by the end of 2015. This is not counting digital sales for June, July, August, September, October, November, or December.

In the west, it sold better than the original did. "Upon its release in the United Kingdom, the game managed to secure 28th place in the charts. Despite its modest position, the game's launch sales was 73% higher than its predecessor had been in the same region," and "In the UK charts, Xenoblade Chronicles debuted at #7, and reached #2 in the dedicated Wii charts despite stock shortages." "In France, the game sold over 40,000 physical copies after two weeks." "In the United States, the game sold over 200,000 physical copies during the month of December, nearly doubling the game's then-lifetime sales in Japan."

Considering all of this, Xenoblade Chronicles X had sold 377,665 copies in 8 months, not counting digital copies, UK sales, Canada sales, non-France EU sales, or South American sales, which the above figure does include. Odds are that the game had matched the original's lifetime sales in 8 months when one considers these.

"Monolith Soft posted financial results for the fiscal year ending march 2016. Total profits were 2.7 billion yen, an increase over the 1 billion yen reported for the last FY." This also means that the game continued to sell well after the NA release in December. At the very least, the game reached half a million by 2016, which beats out the original game.

 

[papagenos]

The news of when smash went into development doesnt really change my predictions, i was already thinking it was almost entirely based on the ballot so that timeframe was where ive been looking anyway and have discounted ARMS and xenoblade2 as DLC not base game characters the whole time...

i even doubted and still kind of doubt a newer pokemon and had been placing my bets on squirtle ivysaur returning instead... shockingly (heh) we also got pichu!

 

[KMDP]

Cmon, Sakurai. Killing the two closest things we have to a Samurai in one short AT clip... *Cries in Lyn and Takamaru*

And then we get Ryoma instead.

 

[DLEAF]

Cmon, Sakurai. Killing the two closest things we have to a Samurai in one short AT clip... *Cries in Lyn and Takamaru*

And there I was thinking Takamaru was a shoe-in. Poor me.

 

[Deathcarter]

While this new info put a definitive dagger in Rex and Pyra's chances, I have a much brighter outlook on Bandana Waddle Dee and K. Rool now. Ballot's definitely where they are going to look for newcomers if they started on Ultimate right after Bayonetta and Corrin were announced.

I do wonder where this puts Elma. She'd be an obvious choice going by precedent in prior games but she already had great timing to be Smash 4 DLC but didn't make it while Corrin did despite Sakurai's apprehension at a 5th/6th Fire Emblem rep and I see little point in saving her for Ultimate rather than getting her in Smash 4 then and there. That combined with the limited amount of newcomers to prioritize returning veterans makes me very skeptical on her odds.

 

[StormC]

“I’ve decided to limit the number of fighters initially available to the original Nintendo 64 roster. This will keep the process of unlocking new challengers fun and exciting..."

So where are all of those people jumping thorough hoops claiming Sakurai didn't literally mean the original 64 fighters?

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

And then we get Ryoma instead.

Gross.

To give a real argument against him, picking just him and not Xander as well would probably be a greater injustice than picking one LoZ champion over the others

 

[Deleted member]

And then we get Ryoma instead.

But Takumi is the superior Hoshido brother.

 

[Zeox]

Cmon, Sakurai. Killing the two closest things we have to a Samurai in one short AT clip... *Cries in Lyn and Takamaru*

And Samurai Goroh

 

[Pokechu]

And your point is heavily flawed because it only focuses on the idea of the literal concept art sheet and not what the concept art actually represents.

They aren't unlikely just because of their concept art. They are unlikely because other options would be far more appealing based on what their concept art shows. And in Primarina's case specifically, its own body structure not working in a game like Smash.

The concept art is what Sakurai would have to look at to get an idea of how the Pokémon is and whether or not they would "fit". Whether or not he can see them "dance", as he puts it here:
https://sourcegaming.info/2015/07/09/megaman-villager-wiifit/

This is exactly what happened with Greninja. He saw Greninja's concept art from before it even had a name, and was able to envision how it would work in Smash in a single night based on what the concept showed him. And in the end, it was that concept that made Greninja beat out not just its other Starter cohorts, but other potential options he was shown.

This is where someone like Incineroar shines and someone like Primarina doesn't.

We can agree to disagree; I personally can see Primarina working just fine with its body structure and even if Incineroar's/whoever's concept art details more of their character, the premise of geokinesis or a blend of hydrokinesis and music could be what draws Sakurai to Lycanroc/Primarina. Concept art certainly does help you stand out, but concept art alone wouldn't get Lycanroc/Primarina out because they both provide unique and attractive abilities not yet in Smash (or in Primarina's case, barely in Smash), and also because Greninja('s moveset) obviously wasn't created solely off of his concept art; Sakurai had to had been given other resources after his initial interest in Greninja, thus bringing up the possibility that the same would happen for the Generation 7 Pokemon.

 

[Murlough]

Oh, I also believe K. Rool was at least top 25, but I just didn't see the correlation between that and recent game releases, which is what the post you quoted talked about.

K. Rool has had a dedicated fanbase for some time, but it wasn't really fueled any more by Tropical Freeze than it was by anything else.

Well the time fram doesnt leave a ton of room for recent releases but the ballot was still fairly fresh at the time.

So I assume that would mean K. Rool could have a higher chance based on that.

 

[Pacack]

Xenoblade Chronicles sold 161,000 units by the end of 2010 in Japan. What isn't mentioned is the Western sales.

"In a later interview, it was stated that [Xenoblade Chronicles] sold better in the West than in Japan." We can conclude from this that the game sold at least 400,000 copies worldwide, since it had sold 200,000 copies by the end of 2013. That's over three years, mind.

Xenoblade Chronicles X had sold 114,665 physical copies by the end of the year, which doesn't account for the 23,000 digital copies during May 2015. Together, that accounts for 137,665 copies by the end of 2015. This is not counting digital sales for June, July, August, September, October, November, or December.

In the west, it sold better than the original did. "Upon its release in the United Kingdom, the game managed to secure 28th place in the charts. Despite its modest position, the game's launch sales was 73% higher than its predecessor had been in the same region," and "In the UK charts, Xenoblade Chronicles debuted at #7, and reached #2 in the dedicated Wii charts despite stock shortages." "In France, the game sold over 40,000 physical copies after two weeks." "In the United States, the game sold over 200,000 physical copies during the month of December, nearly doubling the game's then-lifetime sales in Japan."

Considering all of this, Xenoblade Chronicles X had sold 377,665 copies in 8 months, not counting digital copies, UK sales, Canada sales, non-France EU sales, or South American sales, which the above figure does include. Odds are that the game had matched the original's lifetime sales in 8 months when one considers these.

"Monolith Soft posted financial results for the fiscal year ending march 2016. Total profits were 2.7 billion yen, an increase over the 1 billion yen reported for the last FY." This also means that the game continued to sell well after the NA release in December. At the very least, the game reached half a million by 2016, which beats out the original game.

tl;dr for this post:

Xenoblade Chronicles X had nearly matched Xenoblade Chronicles' lifetime sales in under a year, selling more than 377,665 copies in 8 months vs. Xenoblade Chronicles' 400,000 before 3D's release.

 

[DLEAF]

“I’ve decided to limit the number of fighters initially available to the original Nintendo 64 roster. This will keep the process of unlocking new challengers fun and exciting..."

So where are all of those people jumping thorough hoops claiming Sakurai didn't literally mean the original 64 fighters?

Did he say that in the Direct, or in a separate interview or something?

 

[StormC]

Did he say that in the Direct, or in a separate interview or something?

It's from the Twitter thread regarding Famitsu.

https://twitter.com/AllSourceGaming/status/1009466157567496192

 

[papagenos]

And there I was thinking Takamaru was a shoe-in. Poor me.

While this new info put a definitive dagger in Rex and Pyra's chances, I have a much brighter outlook on Bandana Waddle Dee and K. Rool now. Ballot's definitely where they are going to look for newcomers if they started on Ultimate right after Bayonetta and Corrin were announced.

I do wonder where this puts Elma. She'd be an obvious choice going by precedent in prior games but she already had great timing to be Smash 4 DLC but didn't make it while Corrin did despite Sakurai's apprehension at a 5th/6th Fire Emblem rep and I see little point in saving her for Ultimate rather than getting her in Smash 4 then and there. That combined with the limited amount of newcomers to prioritize returning veterans makes me very skeptical on her odds.

These two things combined are really making me a fan of Icedragonadam 's idea that mach rider is our retro rep AND the person who the toy robots gun sakurai bought to model for a new game is for, and not elma's skell.

it all just fits really well as we have no retro frontrunner now and mach rider was a pretty popular choice back in the day as sakurai has mentioned mach rider in the past.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

At this rate I'd even take Samurai Shodown's Haohmaru.

That aside, did anyone here (besides me) try to influence the ballot results by voting for a new character every day? I wonder if that affected things.

 

[KMDP]

Did he say that in the Direct, or in a separate interview or something?

Sakurai said "the roster may be as small as the original Nintendo 64 roster" (paraphrased from memory).

To clear up an issue I think people have with this: "may" in this context can mean "it might be this, but don't worry" and not "maybe it will be this".

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

It's from the Twitter thread regarding Famitsu.

https://twitter.com/AllSourceGaming/status/1009466157567496192

I will say that its possible a little something was lost in translation. Its possible he meant the size of the initial roster will only be that of the 64 roster, but not necessarily consisting of the OG 8/12 characters specifically.

 

[staindgrey]

If I was Sakurai I'd straight up remove all Waluigi content from the final game.
I'd show zero tolerance for that kinda stuff.
Any one else thinks of pulling stunts like that in the future, maybe they'll think twice.

Luigi wouldn't even have a purple color swap.

Or maybe, just maybe, Sakurai is an adult with thicker skin than that.

What you just described is a tantrum that I don't believe anyone with his position of authority should-- oh **** I accidentally just got political.

 

[StormC]

I will say that its possible a little something was lost in translation. Its possible he meant the size of the initial roster will only be that of the 64 roster, but not necessarily consisting of the OG 8/12 characters specifically.

The Smash Direct literally showed the 64 roster. Why do people think he meant anything but that?

 

[Deleted member]

Or maybe, just maybe, Sakurai is an adult with thicker skin than that.

What you just described is a tantrum that I don't believe anyone with his position of authority should-- oh **** I accidentally just got political.

Stop he's already dead

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

The Smash Direct literally showed the 64 roster. Why do people think he meant anything but that?

I mean that may have just been an example? Maybe they don't want to show our starting roster yet. I'm not trying to say it WON'T be the OG 12, what I'm saying is it's possible they only meant the size of the initial roster is that size.

 

[Deathcarter]

Xenoblade Chronicles sold 161,000 units by the end of 2010 in Japan. What isn't mentioned is the Western sales.

"In a later interview, it was stated that [Xenoblade Chronicles] sold better in the West than in Japan." We can conclude from this that the game sold at least 400,000 copies worldwide, since it had sold 200,000 copies by the end of 2013. That's over three years, mind.

Xenoblade Chronicles X had sold 114,665 physical copies by the end of the year, which doesn't account for the 23,000 digital copies during May 2015. Together, that accounts for 137,665 copies by the end of 2015. This is not counting digital sales for June, July, August, September, October, November, or December.

In the west, it sold better than the original did. "Upon its release in the United Kingdom, the game managed to secure 28th place in the charts. Despite its modest position, the game's launch sales was 73% higher than its predecessor had been in the same region," and "In the UK charts, Xenoblade Chronicles debuted at #7, and reached #2 in the dedicated Wii charts despite stock shortages." "In France, the game sold over 40,000 physical copies after two weeks." "In the United States, the game sold over 200,000 physical copies during the month of December, nearly doubling the game's then-lifetime sales in Japan."

Considering all of this, Xenoblade Chronicles X had sold 377,665 copies in 8 months, not counting digital copies, UK sales, Canada sales, non-France EU sales, or South American sales, which the above figure does include. Odds are that the game had matched the original's lifetime sales in 8 months when one considers these.

"Monolith Soft posted financial results for the fiscal year ending march 2016. Total profits were 2.7 billion yen, an increase over the 1 billion yen reported for the last FY." This also means that the game continued to sell well after the NA release in December. At the very least, the game reached half a million by 2016, which beats out the original game.

They already started work on Ultimate in the same month Xenoblade X released so western popularity means zilch when it comes to Elma's chances and they couldn't wait to see if she'd have staying power. The fact that Corrin was chosen over her despite Sakurai's misgivings about a 6th FE does suggest that he thought her potential inclusion wouldn't be a considered a big deal.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

Xenoblade X was a commercial and financial success and was one of the biggest titles on the wii u, especially in 2015 when the project plan was made, 2015 was barren apart from that, mario maker, splatoon and fates, the rest of the releases were all just spin-offs like kirby and the rainbow paintbrush and triforce heroes. Elma's inclusion makes sense, the game was big, monolith are open to it, she has the moveset potential and the game essentially ends on sequel bait so the character is sure to have a future.

 

[Lady Byakugan]

We can agree to disagree; I personally can see Primarina working just fine with its body structure and even if Incineroar's/whoever's concept art details more of their character, the premise of geokinesis or a blend of hydrokinesis and music could be what draws Sakurai to Lycanroc/Primarina. Concept art certainly does help you stand out, but concept art alone wouldn't get Lycanroc/Primarina out because they both provide unique and attractive abilities not yet in Smash (or in Primarina's case, barely in Smash), and also because Greninja('s moveset) obviously wasn't created solely off of his concept art; Sakurai had to had been given other resources after his initial interest in Greninja, thus bringing up the possibility that the same would happen for the Generation 7 Pokemon.

in my opinion, I think pokemon reps should be major, consistent parts of the series. It's one of the reasons why Greninja sticks out so weirdly compared to the other pokemon reps

so i don't personally want every smash to get a new gen pokemon but rather well known and more important pokemon that game freak as shown consistent attention to. Like Meowth, Eevee, or Mew. ESPECIALLY Meowth.

 

[Deathcarter]

These two things combined are really making me a fan of Icedragonadam 's idea that mach rider is our retro rep AND the person who the toy robots gun sakurai bought to model for a new game is for, and not elma's skell.

it all just fits really well as we have no retro frontrunner now and mach rider was a pretty popular choice back in the day as sakurai has mentioned mach rider in the past.

I still think Excite Biker is the retro front runner but the rifle thing does line up with Mach Rider.

 

[Deleted member]

in my opinion, I think pokemon reps should be major, consistent parts of the series. It's one of the reasons why Greninja sticks out so weirdly compared to the other pokemon reps

so i don't personally want every smash to get a new gen pokemon but rather well known and more important pokemon that game freak as shown consistent attention to. Like Meowth, Eevee, or Mew. ESPECIALLY Meowth.

Thankfully, this isn't how Pokemon newcomers are chosen.

 

[Jubileus57]

in my opinion, I think pokemon reps should be major, consistent parts of the series. It's one of the reasons why Greninja sticks out so weirdly compared to the other pokemon reps

so i don't personally want every smash to get a new gen pokemon but rather well known and more important pokemon that game freak as shown consistent attention to. Like Meowth, Eevee, or Mew. ESPECIALLY Meowth.

Lords above not yet another gen 1 Pokémon. We are nearing the Gen 1 overdose in these times.

 

[Pacack]

They already started work on Ultimate in the same month Xenoblade X released so western popularity means zilch when it comes to Elma's chances and they couldn't wait to see if she'd have staying power. The fact that Corrin was chosen over her despite Sakurai's misgivings about a 6th FE does suggest that he thought her potential inclusion wouldn't be a considered a big deal.

My point is that the game's sales were comparable to the original Xenoblade Chronicles in Japan despite the game releasing on the underselling Wii U rather than the massively popular Wii.

If Sakurai was going to consider a new character for the Xenoblade franchise, it makes perfect sense to go for Elma, the protagonist of a game which just came out to good sales in Japan.

 

[Pokechu]

in my opinion, I think pokemon reps should be major, consistent parts of the series. It's one of the reasons why Greninja sticks out so weirdly compared to the other pokemon reps

so i don't personally want every smash to get a new gen pokemon but rather well known and more important pokemon that game freak as shown consistent attention to. Like Meowth, Eevee, or Mew. ESPECIALLY Meowth.

This is my opinion too, actually. I'm actually rather sad that Meowth isn't in to be honest,

I'd much rather a roster of iconic/important Pokemon (even if they'd all likely be from Generation 1) over a roster where half the Pokemon aren't recognizable. But that's just me. also I always loved mew and seeing him in smash would be adorable lol

Thankfully, this isn't how Pokemon newcomers are chosen.

I'm curious, what'd be wrong if that's how Pokemon were chosen? Granted it'd be heavily in G1's favor but aside from that I don't see a problem.

 

[N3ON]

Time to try something. Hey N3ON, will Master Chief make it in the game? *slides a 20 across the table*

nah

$20 plz