Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[MoonlitIllusion]

Based on everything we've learned so far, I think this is a pretty safe assumption for how this roster is going to go:

-Switch Era Characters are very likely a no go, at least for the base roster
-We may have a few less newcomers than we are use to due to the sheer number of returning fighters
-Given that the project plan seems to have started around the end of the ballot, and was finalized around the time of and 's reveal, along with them focusing on bringing back every fan favorite AND starting off the newcomers with two very popular choices among fans, I think it' a very safe assumption that the ballot is going to play a very large factor in this roster. Especially with the game wearing the title of "Ultimate/Special" proudly on it's sleeve.

I genuinely believe we are in for a treat, guys.

Yeah if we get say 10 characters I think it's possible that we'll get half fan favourites and half relevant/promotional characters, and there's also characters like Inkling, Bandana Dee, Dixie and Isabelle which fall into both categories as well.

 

[92MilesPrower]

A trophy whose model was made by Ubi themselves, no less. Plus as Sukapon's AT appearance showed, they at least got the limbless physics down.

Problem is, what are they gonna do for an amiibo? I doubt they'll want to use a lot of clear plastic or have him connected to something or anything, but who knows.

 

[GaroMaster]

It probably was, but it wasn’t leaked or revealed yet. Ubisoft’s relationship wasn’t as strong as it is now, so I’m doubting that Rayman gets in.

Konami's relationship with Nintendo also wasn't as good back then, yet Snake is coming back and Simon Belmont is looking pretty likely.
Remember when we all thought the Kojima controversy affected Snake's chances and Sakurai wouldn't put him in out of respect for Kojima? Well, look at where we are now.

 

[Pacack]

Regarding ballot popularity, Slime might be a genuine possibility since Square Enix is already involved in this game.

Dragon Quest is the best selling game series of all time for Japan, and the Slime is incredibly popular.

 

[Fenriraga]

Her odds are shaky, but not non-existent.

Shadows of Valentia entered development immediately after Fates released in Japan, and considering Sakurai had to go to them for Corrin anyway, he may have heard about the game. He's close like that with IS anyway. Plus due to it being a remake he at least had Gaiden to use as a basis for her moveset.

On the other hand, it's because of how close this was to Corrin being added that I'm not personally betting on her. He may see it as too much too soon.

So yeah, her odds aren't the best in light of recent news, but I don't think we should write her off completely.

Look at the bright side, at least her biggest competition is out of the picture!

Gazes longingly and totally not creepily at a picture of Lyn.

 

[Originality]

Problem is, what are they gonna do for an amiibo? I doubt they'll want to use a lot of clear plastic or have him connected to something or anything, but who knows.

I personally like the idea of this statue

There are many clever ways around having no limbs

 

[92MilesPrower]

I personally like the idea of this statue View attachment 149254
There are many clever ways around having no limbs

Thing is I doubt they'll have him on a structure like that or attached to anything else for his art, but who knows.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

Why are we ruling out Rayman on the basis of something as trivial as an amiibo figure

 

[Originality]

Thing is I doubt they'll have him on a structure like that or attached to anything else for his art, but who knows.

I don't really see why they wouldn't. I don't think Sakurai would care about an amiibo really. If he thinks Rayman should be in he'd put him in and let someone else figure out the amiibo

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

Thing is I doubt they'll have him on a structure like that or attached to anything else for his art, but who knows.

just have him sitting on the floor or something

 

[Deleted member]

My point wasn't that Primarina and Lycanroc are likely. It was just that they indeed are a possibility regardless of their concept art, as concept art isn't the only factor used to put a Pokemon in Smash.

I don't care which Pokemon gets in Smash, my personal pick is Lycanroc just because he's a dog, but he and Primarina aren't out because of their concept art was all I was trying to say.

And your point is heavily flawed because it only focuses on the idea of the literal concept art sheet and not what the concept art actually represents.

They aren't unlikely just because of their concept art. They are unlikely because other options would be far more appealing based on what their concept art shows. And in Primarina's case specifically, its own body structure not working in a game like Smash.

The concept art is what Sakurai would have to look at to get an idea of how the Pokémon is and whether or not they would "fit". Whether or not he can see them "dance", as he puts it here:
https://sourcegaming.info/2015/07/09/megaman-villager-wiifit/

This is exactly what happened with Greninja. He saw Greninja's concept art from before it even had a name, and was able to envision how it would work in Smash in a single night based on what the concept showed him. And in the end, it was that concept that made Greninja beat out not just its other Starter cohorts, but other potential options he was shown.

This is where someone like Incineroar shines and someone like Primarina doesn't.

 

[KingBroly]

Regarding ballot popularity, Slime might be a genuine possibility since Square Enix is already involved in this game.

Dragon Quest is the best selling game series of all time for Japan, and the Slime is incredibly popular.

Considering how High and Mighty Square Enix acts, don't hold your breath.

 

[92MilesPrower]

Why are we ruling out Rayman on the basis of something as trivial as an amiibo figure

We're not ruling him out, we're just trying to figure out what would be the best way to approach making his inevitable amiibo if he's in the game. If his art won't have him on a structure then they have to get creative with making sure his body parts are "floating".

 

[Pacack]

Considering how High and Mighty Square Enix acts, don't hold your breath.

In what way? Having Dragon Quest's mascot in Smash Bros. is nothing but good for them, promotion-wise.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

We're not ruling him out, we're just trying to figure out what would be the best way to approach making his inevitable amiibo if he's in the game. If his art won't have him on a structure then they have to get creative with making sure his body parts are "floating".

I'd personally just pull a Duck Hunt and have plastic rods connecting the body parts.

 

[KingBroly]

In what way? Having Dragon Quest's mascot in Smash Bros. is nothing but good for them, promotion-wise.

With Cloud, we got only 2 songs and a Stage. Whereas other 3rd parties had many more

 

[Cutie Gwen]

In what way? Having Dragon Quest's mascot in Smash Bros. is nothing but good for them, promotion-wise.

I think he might be referring to how Square were about Cloud and Lara Croft for Sony Smash but. Their poster boy is already in

 

[92MilesPrower]

just have him sitting on the floor or something

He still lacks a neck, but they could use a little bit of clear plastic for making his head "float".

 

[Zeox]

You guys see this?

The project plan was finished in December 2015, when DLC for the previous game was still being developed. Gathering staff together for the new Smash was done later. pic.twitter.com/w1JyrtlKo7

— Source Gaming (@AllSourceGaming) June 20, 2018

Ok this means ultimate concept finished not too long after ballot finished

So this makes it far far more likely their eyes are pointed toward the most voted for in the ballot for smash ultimate

I think ballot characters with the most votes will be the base roster newcomers

So, unless they are DLC, forget about rex and pyra.

 

[Shadowwolflink]

In the same vein as the other statue, this could easily work as a Rayman amiibo.

 

[Pacack]

With Cloud, we got only 2 songs and a Stage. Whereas other 3rd parties had many more

That could very easily have been time constraints. We do not know what Cloud is going to get in this game.

And, regardless, Cloud being in at all is a clear sign that SE is willing to work with Nintendo.

 

[N3ON]

2016:

It's not a huge leap to predict the Smash game will also get new content as well. For all we know, it was being developed concurrently with the DLC.

2017:

Given that, the time passed since the last title, how much hype characters create, and the fact that it seems entirely possible they could've been worked on concurrently with the DLC, I'm given to think the Smash title (which I believe exists and will be released in 2018) will feature at least a few additional characters and perhaps some consolidated content between the versions.

2018:

I believe work probably happened either concurrently with the DLC or immediately after.

 

[Krysco]

I'm only ever like 20 pages and a few hours behind this thread and yet I still miss out on entire topics.

The Waluigi drama is pretty silly to me. Every fandom has it's bad side. Heck, the Waluigi supporters are a mere subsection of an already toxic fandom that is the Smash one. I also don't entirely get how Waluigi is a meme. Like, is it just people saying 'I want Waluigi because wah'? I genuinely think Waluigi would be a fun addition if they carried over his personality and wackiness. Swimming through the air, spinning in the upside down L shape, vine powers (granted Strikers gave everyone weird powers). As for personality, you've got his 'you're lousy' taunt from Mario Party, his crotch chops, he's got plenty from Strikers like when he gets a goal he'll sometimes say to an opponent 'want the ball? Eh, here!' and throws the metallic soccer ball at their head. When the opposing team gets a goal he'll make a goofy face with his tongue out and his hands by his ears. From Power Tennis, there's the bloopers like when Bowser gets electrocuted and Waluigi says 'don't expect mouth to mouth'. There's more but that's the kinda stuff that would need to be in his moveset for Waluigi to be worth adding.

As for main picking, I'm hoping to stick with Wolf and I'll probably still use Falco and Ganon since I've used them in every game. After that, I'm willing to give nearly everyone a try but there's certain characters that I know from playstyle alone that I won't like.

And for anyone that cares, I was around for Sm4sh speculation. Wouldn't shut up about Ganondorf, Wolf, Pichu and how cute Kirby was.

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

This is plainly false.




In Japan, X sold very similarly to its predecessor despite being on a console with a smaller userbase.

How is this false? You cut out the fact that by end of Year X sold less than Xenoblade by the end of it's year.

"By the end of the year, a total of 114,665 were sold in Japan"
Where as according to what you state Xenoblade sold 160,000+ by end of year which was also a shorter time going from June to December than April to December for X.

Now Wikipedia could have the numbers wrong. I do think though that its not all based on sales. Part of the reason Shulk made it to Smash is because how big a deal Xenoblade was globally too. Not only that but I don't expect Elma to be looked at as a highly requested character in 2015.

Also sorry I'm responding so late, busy day for me.
Again if the numbers are off I'm just pulling from Wikipedia so that's fair. I think it's more than sales ultimately though.

 

[Zeox]

Why are we ruling out Rayman on the basis of something as trivial as an amiibo figure

Dunno but I can do the same with other Characters.
Porky cannot be playable because in his amiibo figure he have to be the same size as Ness and Lucas, but at the same time be in a spider mech, that would be too big for the amiibo stand so he cannot fit in the amiibo so he cannot be playable.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Regarding ballot popularity, Slime might be a genuine possibility since Square Enix is already involved in this game.

Dragon Quest is the best selling game series of all time for Japan, and the Slime is incredibly popular.

Wouldn't mind it, since he even had his own games (which sadly were mostly not exported).

 

[StrangeMann]

2016:

2017:

2018:

Hello smash prophet N3ON. Please tell us the future. What are the newcomers of the next game? Echoes?

 

[Fenriraga]

Considering how High and Mighty Square Enix acts, don't hold your breath.

I think people are giving Square WAY more flack for this than they really deserve to get.

Yes, Square is very likely the hardest of the third parties in Smash to work with. That doesn't make them unreasonable.

If you're using Cloud's limited series representation as an example (which I'm not saying you personally are), it's really not one that holds up when you do a bit of research. Steve Burton's lack of voicing Cloud for the English Dub comes down to an issue of unions. Companies are VERY touchy with these for some reason. As an example, Sega was going to bring Ryan Drummond (Sonic's Adventure Era VA) back in Sonic Generations in one way or another, but were scared off upon figuring out Drummond was unionized, and therefore offered him next to no payment to return.

The lack of music tracks, remixes and trophies for FF7 can be chalked up to 4 having a limited DLC budget. This can be seen with Bayonetta too, to an extent, considering her "remixes" only amount to enhanced instrumentals of the games' vocal tracks and her trophies were just ported models from her games. Plus, with Ryu and Bayonetta, they already had their foot in the door with Capcom and SEGA. Square was a completely new company to deal with, and they likely had a smaller budget to work with. The same issue would have been present, I feel, if any other major company were to have gotten a rep via DLC at the time.

Don't forget that Sakurai said Namoura was surprisingly easy to work with and even a bit more hands-off than other characters he had developed before. So that wasn't an issue either.

With how much FF has been crossing over as of late (Smash, Tekken, Monster Hunter, and much more), Square clearly is not against the idea of crossovers as much as people think. So a second Square Enix rep is ABSOLUTELY possible with the significantly larger budget Ultimate has.

And if anything else, Cloud is going to get a lot more Doo dads and nick nacks this time around, I absolutely guarantee it.

And insert Geno comment here.

 

[monadoboy]

So, Elma is looking likelier with the project plan stuff? (RIP Shulk & Rex meeting again for Smash, just when I started liking the idea of Rex in Smash a lot more)
If so, I'll be lowkey waiting for a triple Elma reveal during a Direct (Smash, X port, XC2 Blade)

 

[Will]

In the same vein as the other statue, this could easily work as a Rayman amiibo.View attachment 149256

Yo I don't think that Rayman on the right is feeling so good...

 

[Graizen]

I would love a Agumon Amiibo actualy!

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

So, Elma is looking likelier with the project plan stuff? (RIP Shulk & Rex meeting again for Smash, just when I started liking the idea of Rex in Smash a lot more)
If so, I'll be lowkey waiting for a triple Elma reveal during a Direct (Smash, X port, XC2 Blade)

Now wait a damn minute, you might be onto something there with the triple reveal thing, that would be amazing fr

 

[Idon]

Look at the bright side, at least her biggest competition is out of the picture!

Gazes longingly and totally not creepily at a picture of Lyn.

No don't worry!

dons tinfoil hat.

Calculating the future release dates of an FE game/remake coming out every year, we will get an FE7 Remake/Shadows of Elibe 2 in the year 2023 which coincides with a Switch successor announcement, which coincides with a Smash announcement. One year after that announcement should be the release of Smash 6. And considering DLC lasts from launch year till next year like Smash 4, this can only mean one thing.

You heard it here first boys.

Lyn confirmed for Smash 6 DLC: 2026.

 

[GaroMaster]

Here's the thing about an Ubisoft rep and this is my take on it:

Spoiler

Given the fact that Smash Ultimate's project plan was finalised in December 2015, that most likely means Sakurai did not know about Mario + Rabbids.
This potentially means that the Rabbids, along with Spring Man and Rex & Pyra, came along too late to be considered for the base game. Granted, the Rabbids have been a successful franchise since the Brawl days, but the demand for the Rabbids to appear only started to grow with Mario + Rabbids due to it being a high profile Switch exclusive. However, the game came out in August 2017, which was about a year and a half after Ultimate's finalization in December 2015. At this rate, the Rabbids could make an appearance as an AT unless if Sakurai wants to make them a DLC fighter.
What does this timing mean for Rayman, then? Well, a lot, actually.
For starters, Rayman Legends was still a pretty recent game as it released in September 2013. It was one of the few high profile third party games on the Wii U. Additionally, you could make an argument that Rayman's popularity was at its peak during the Ballot era due to the three trophies in Smash 4 and the fake Omni leak. Whether that popularity would get him in over other candidates is entirely debatable since none of us know the top requested characters on the Ballot other than Cloud, Bayonetta, and maybe Snake. We also don't know how popular Rayman really is outside of Smashboards, but you can say the same thing about every other potential newcomer.
As for Sakurai not knowing about Ubisoft's extensive support, I don't really think that's an issue. Besides the fact that Ubisoft was the biggest supporter of the Wii U, you could argue that this aspect does not matter much for a character's inclusion since Konami did not really support the Wii U and 3DS back then. Despite this, though, not only did we get Snake back (as well as David Hayter!), but if the leaks are to be believed, then Simon Belmont may very well happen.
By no means is Rayman a guarantee. His biggest obstacle is the lack of Japanese popularity. However, Rayman already has his foot in the door and I do think the timing of this project plan bodes well for him.

 

[Troykv]

So, Elma is looking likelier with the project plan stuff? (RIP Shulk & Rex meeting again for Smash, just when I started liking the idea of Rex in Smash a lot more)
If so, I'll be lowkey waiting for a triple Elma reveal during a Direct (Smash, X port, XC2 Blade)

DLC is always a possibility pal.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

So, unless they are DLC, forget about rex and pyra.

And arms rep

This is telling me the ballot characters with the most votes might be a base roster newcomers for this

Which would further the evidence that smash ultimate is focusing on fan requests for this one

Maybe daisy was pretty high on the ballot is how she got in.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

And if anything else, Cloud is going to get a lot more Doo dads and nick nacks this time around, I absolutely guarantee it.

And insert Geno comment here.

Do you figure that they might sneak in a song from the FFVII Remake that's under development to tease the fans, as a cross-promotion?

 

[Sonic Poke]

2016:

2017:

2018:

Please guide us prophet. We mere mortals need your guidance.

 

[KingBroly]

That could very easily have been time constraints. We do not know what Cloud is going to get in this game.

And, regardless, Cloud being in at all is a clear sign that SE is willing to work with Nintendo.

Bayonetta got more songs than Cloud did, and released alongside Corrin. So time constraints wouldn't really work as a reason

 

[Fenriraga]

Do you figure that they might sneak in a song from the FFVII Remake that's under development to tease the fans, as a cross-promotion?

Nah. Even Brawl's Theme of Love Remix from MGS4 was exclusive to Smash, and Brawl came out a decent while before MGS4 did. If they remix anything, it'll be exclusive to Smash.