Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[MamaLuigi123456]

Pokemon currently has 9 reps.

Pokemon is literally the second best-selling video game franchise of all time, behind Mario.

If it gets 10 reps I'd say it's well-deserved.

 

[Will]

Considering Pokemon Trainer is back, there's no need to have another Grass Pokemon since you'd be stuck with a Fire Pokemon being left out. It'd be Mimikyu, Lycanroc, or no one.

rude

 

[RileyXY1]

Pokemon is literally the second best-selling video game franchise of all time, behind Mario.

If it gets 10 reps I'd say it's well-deserved.

That's just too much Pokemon. It's the Fire Emblem situation from Smash 4, except even worse.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Well **** that’s was a lot earlier than expected. This means a lot of things:

A) Development time for this game could begin in early 2016, allowing more time for more content.

B) The Smash Fighter Ballot proabably takes a larger role in the roster since it probably gave Sakurai enough characters to be made into the newcomer line up.

C) The relevant window could decrease for only games and characters up to 2016.

D) Pokémon Sun and Moon could now be in the same boot as Pokémon X and Y.

However, games like Super Mario Odyssey are still represented in the game despite being far from done at that time, so maybe there is more lee way for “relevant” newcomers, but not a lot seeing how there wasn’t many hit games during the end of Wii U/3DS and early Switch era that aren’t represented yet.

Not to mention Gen 7 Pokemon still show up in Poke Ball summons.

Sun and Moon definitely feels like it's in the same spot as X and Y right now.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Of the interviews I read about Corrin's inclusion, I don't think I have seen Sakurai say anything about international releases being a major factor for his inclusion. :/

I think you missed this bit.

Ultimate's Project Plan was completed in December 2015:

https://twitter.com/AllSourceGaming/status/1009455106637656064

Spring Man and Rex+Pyra definitely aren't making it, then.

Huh. I can still see a Gen 7 newcomer getting the Greninja treatment.

Pokemon currently has 9 reps.

So? It's Pokemon, one of Nintendo's biggest franchises.

That's just too much Pokemon. It's the Fire Emblem situation from Smash 4, except even worse.

Except for the fact that Pokemon is far more popular than Fire Emblem.

 

[Deleted member]

Pokémon newcomers aren't out of the question, just maybe not from Gen 7.

Pokemon newcomers don't work like that. They're added solely for promotion.

I don't know, Incineroar looking like an actual fighter compared to the others in just seeing concept art could make things worse or less. No real wrestlers in the game.

Again, all I'm saying is that the arguments about Decidueye's lack of promotion and popularity would both become moot points.

Considering Pokemon Trainer is back, there's no need to have another Grass Pokemon since you'd be stuck with a Fire Pokemon being left out. It'd be Mimikyu, Lycanroc, or no one.

Greninja and Squirtle are both in the game. Sakurai wouldn't have chosen Decidueye because of his typing, and Decidueye would play nothing like Ivysaur anyway.
I'm ****ing sick of people bringing it up. It makes me want to remove some names from the Decidueye support list because I know their support was ungenuine.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

That's just too much Pokemon. It's the Fire Emblem situation from Smash 4, except even worse.

Except everyone's problem with Fire Emblem in Smash 4 was that the series was nowhere near as big as other franchises like Mario or Zelda. Pokemon is.

Frankly though I've always been in the camp that the number of reps a series has doesn't matter as long as said reps are all fun to play as. I'd take 50 Fire Emblem characters if all of them were cool and unique.

 

[papagenos]

Pokemon is literally the second best-selling video game franchise of all time, behind Mario.

If it gets 10 reps I'd say it's well-deserved.

yeah and if you take "video games" out of the equation and just look at it as a franchise, it beats out Star wars, Marvel Comics, Lord of the Rings, Harry Potter, the Simpsons, Dragon Ball Z etc... it is literally the top media franchise in the world.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Ultimate's Project Plan was completed in December 2015:

https://twitter.com/AllSourceGaming/status/1009455106637656064

Spring Man and Rex+Pyra definitely aren't making it, then.

That's significantly earlier than I expected, it's pretty crazy they were still developing DLC while Ultimate's project plan was completed. It's also interesting when we take some of the Mii Costumes that seem to be consolation prizes into account, the Geno costume for example was released in December 2015, while the K. Rool one was released half a year earlier.

 

[Fenriraga]

Hot dang, if the project plan was FINALIZED at that time, the ballot is seriously going to have a bigger influence than we could have hoped. That would mean they began making the plan hot off the heels of it.

This is gonna be an interesting roster.

 

[Pokechu]

Pokemon is literally the second best-selling video game franchise of all time, behind Mario.

If it gets 10 reps I'd say it's well-deserved.

In a game where it got 3 veterans back and there are limited newcomers, it is likely Sakurai decided to invest those newcomers in other series and not in Pokemon, regardless of the newcomer's moveset potential. After all, when FE had 5 characters Sakurai hesitated on adding Corrin, despite them being one of the most unique movesets in the roster and definitely the most unique swordsman.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

That's just too much Pokemon. It's the Fire Emblem situation from Smash 4, except even worse.

How is it worse?

Despite having 9 reps, people still want a Gen 7 rep because it could bring some unique stuff to the table.

So the problem about Fire Emblem is that half the cast has the same moveset and two of the remaining three characters also share some moves. Ike's really the only unique one here when it comes to the entire moveset and that lack of originality, something Pokemon is very, VERY far from having, might be why people complain so much.

 

[Green_Pikmin*]

Ultimate's Project Plan was completed in December 2015:

https://twitter.com/AllSourceGaming/status/1009455106637656064

Spring Man and Rex+Pyra definitely aren't making it, then.

Whats to say he altered some of his project plans during the actual development? Sakurai would have had plenty of time between 2015 and 2018 to look into future installments and new IPs? (Although only time will tell).

 

[True Blue Warrior]

I think based off when the project plan is completed, I think anything from 2016 (or might as well has been, given Oddysey and Breath of the Wild) is safe. Though that does mean that it is severely unlikely Samus Returns would have had an impact on Ridley's inclusion.

 

[RandomAce]

Pokemon newcomers don't work like that. They're added solely for promotion.

Again, all I'm saying is that the arguments about Decidueye's lack of promotion and popularity would both become moot points.

Greninja and Squirtle are both in the game. Sakurai wouldn't have chosen Decidueye because of his typing anyway, and Decidueye would play nothing like Ivysaur anyway.
I'm ****ing sick of people bringing it up. It makes me want to remove some names from the Decidueye support list because I know their support was ungenuine.

But Greninja and Squirtle were already in the game, sooo...

Either way, a Gen 7 Pokémon is still likely but just like Pokemon X and Y, they probably had a placeholder until they were more information information the Pokémon and who to add.

I think there might be more newcomers in this game now because development for this game is now a lot longer than we had anticipated.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Whats to say he altered some of his project plans during the actual development? Sakurai would have had plenty of time between 2015 and 2018 to look into future installments and new IPs? (Although only time will tell).

I'd think he'd only need to do so for Gen 7 given the Pokemon Company has a big say in which Pokemon gets in.

 

[Pacack]

Pokemon is literally the second best-selling video game franchise of all time, behind Mario.

If it gets 10 reps I'd say it's well-deserved.

Don't forget that it's the most profitable media franchise of all time.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

Whats to say he altered some of his project plans during the actual development? Sakurai would have had plenty of time between 2015 and 2018 to look into future installments and new IPs? (Although only time will tell).

Because he has said before that once the roster is finalized, it's set in stone.

 

[RileyXY1]

I really don't want Pokemon to have 10 reps. That's just too much for one series, even one as big as Pokemon. Only Mario should have that many characters.

 

[Idon]

Quick note, Sakurai can pick characters based off of concept art for all he cares.

Regardless, I think we should stay ultra conservative in our speculation this time around.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Because he has said before that once the roster is finalized, it's set in stone.

With the biggest exception being the Melee clones and Sonic in Brawl.

 

[Deleted member]

But Greninja and Squirtle were already in the game, sooo...

That was something I thought of before. Doesn't mean ****.
AGAIN... Ivysaur and Decidueye would play nothing alike. Being a grass type was never going to be the reason for Sakurai to choose Decidueye anyway. It's just a (very stupid) reason some people had for supporting it.

 

[PeridotGX]

Pokémon Sun and Moon came out late 2016... I guess no gen 7 pokemon either?

It would be a Greninja situation where they add a Pokémon based on early concept art.

Just love how Sakurai absolutely smashed (no pun intended) people's predictions so much so that even the popular shoo-ins have almost all been downgraded to "unlikely"

Yeah. K.Rool has been elevated to likely while Spring-Man is now incredibly unlikely. I think the only characters that survived the event were Bandana Dee and a Gen 7 Pokémon.

 

[RileyXY1]

How is it worse?

Despite having 9 reps, people still want a Gen 7 rep because it could bring some unique stuff to the table.

So the problem about Fire Emblem is that half the cast has the same moveset and two of the remaining three characters also share some moves. Ike's really the only unique one here and that lack of originality, something Pokemon is very, VERY far from having, might be why people complain so much.

The problem is that Pokemon is surpassing Mario, Nintendo's flagship franchise. No franchise should ever surpass Mario, not even Pokemon.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I really don't want Pokemon to have 10 reps. That's just too much for one series, even one as big as Pokemon. Only Mario should have that many characters.

You're contradicting yourself here, pal.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

With the biggest exception being the Melee clones and Sonic in Brawl.

Clones are the exception because they're added at the end of development as a "bonus" to the roster.

And idk what the **** was up with Sonic.

 

[RileyXY1]

You're contradicting yourself here, pal.

I'm giving Mario a pass because it's Nintendo's flagship franchise and it should always have the most reps for that reason.

 

[PlayerOneTyler]

Not only is Pokemon the second-best selling Nintendo franchise, but it's also the one with the fastest growth, the most rapid changes, and the most frequent titles. If Pokemon has 10 reps, I'll give em all hugs for carrying Nintendo through its darkest times.

 

[Shyy_Guy595]

Pokemon newcomers don't work like that. They're added solely for promotion.

Again, all I'm saying is that the arguments about Decidueye's lack of promotion and popularity would both become moot points.

Greninja and Squirtle are both in the game. Sakurai wouldn't have chosen Decidueye because of his typing, and Decidueye would play nothing like Ivysaur anyway.
I'm ****ing sick of people bringing it up. It makes me want to remove some names from the Decidueye support list because I know their support was ungenuine.

Not everyone gets the Roy treatment though, do they?

Anyways, someone already pointed out Gen 7 reps got added in through pokéballs so a Gen 7 newcomer isn't out of the question

 

[StrangeMann]

The problem is that Pokemon is surpassing Mario, Nintendo's flagship franchise. No franchise should ever surpass Mario, not even Pokemon.

Pokémon surpassed mario during the brawl era, poor argument

 

[True Blue Warrior]

It would be a Greninja situation where they add a Pokémon based on early concept art.

Keep in mind he made an exception for Pokemon whilst giving a different treatment to Awakening

Sakurai:

It really depends on the situation. For example, Roy and Robin were included for completely different reasons. It also depends on luck, of course. Industry trends around the time when development begins is a pretty big factor. I started development on Smash for 3DS/ Wii Uright after I’d wrapped up Kid Icarus: Uprising, and Fire Emblem Awakening was released one month after Uprising. So what’s popular around the time when I begin designing the game is important. Characters are almost never added after I’ve completed the project plan for Smash.

Interviewer: So once that project plan is set into motion, everything is already fixed.

Sakurai: If I had to offer up one exception from this time, it would be for Pokémon. We knew there was going to be a new release soon, so we left one spot open for a new Pokémon, and everything else continued according to plan. Adding or removing during the process directly impacts production costs and people’s workloads, so it’s not that easy to add or change things, and we take that into account.

Interviewer: That’s a separate topic from post-release add-on content (DLC), though.

Sakurai: We don’t think about adding in post-release content from the beginning. We want to provide as much as we can with the base game.

Interviewer: But that means Awakening’s release schedule was pretty fortuitous.

Sakurai: Yes, that was the case. For example, if Awakening was released six months later, Robin may not have made it in, and if it was six months early, they might not have even been considered.

 

[RileyXY1]

Pokémon surpassed mario during the brawl era, poor argument

They were equal. Both had four reps.

 

[Deleted member]

Pokemon is essentially my favorite video game series, and the one I have the most fond memories of. I also think "reps" are stupid.
I'd take 10 Pokemon without even thinking twice.

 

[PlayerOneTyler]

They were equal. Both had four reps.

Pokemon had 6 if you're separating Pokemon Trainer, so nope.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

They were equal. Both had four reps.

Unless you count Pokemon Trainer's Pokemon separate, who had .

Which you seem to be doing in the case of Ultimate since you say it has nine reps. Count Pokemon Trainer as one and it's just seven.

I mean I'd definitely take 15 Mario reps without a second thought, but this is some poor arguing here.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

The problem is that Pokemon is surpassing Mario, Nintendo's flagship franchise. No franchise should ever surpass Mario, not even Pokemon.

Why does it matter? Seriously, why?

Pokemon has a much larger cast of potential fighters for Smash than Mario could ever dream of having. It's not surprising they'd get so many characters.

I'm giving Mario a pass because it's Nintendo's flagship franchise and it should always have the most reps for that reason.

I seriously don't see why it matters so much. Especially when Pokemon had 6 reps in Brawl while the mainline Mario franchise was still stuck at 4.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Come to think of it, this does confirm that Elma would be the most recent Xenoblade character at the time the project plan would have been completed.

 

[Pacack]

They were equal. Both had four reps.

Mario, Luigi, Bowser, and Peach.

Pikachu, Jigglypuff, Charizard, Ivysaur, Squirtle, Lucario

 

[StrangeMann]

They were equal. Both had four reps.

Pikachu, jigglypuff, lucario, pokemon trainer? Pokémon trainer is 3 different Pokémon in one portrait. I understand what you are trying to say but it doesn’t work in relative to development time, pokemon trainer certainly took a lot of development effort.

 

[Deleted member]

They were equal. Both had four reps.

Only if you count the Trainer as one character.
Which would also mean Pokemon now has 7 characters.