Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Will]

This should work.

Yeah, never understood why they went for the Steampunk Sora look.

 

[Pacack]

Do we have pics of Rex's concept art?
Come to think of it concept art is pretty important, it's what gave Sheik's Brawl design and likely a major influence for Zero Suit Samus' new look

There's a possibility that this wasn't finalized until 2016. We know facial expressions were not until then.

 

[DarkFalcon]

Wow 2015 to finalize his project plan is even earlier than I imagined. This makes the ballot even more important. This is gonna be interesting.

 

[RandomAce]

I just want to say,

That a Gen 7 Pokémon was probably decided mid-late 2016, similar to Pokémon X and Y, until the Sakurai had more concrete information on the Pokémon to choose from.

Meaning that Pokémon Sun and Moon had a placeholder and Sakurai would’ve added the character much later in development and not rely solely on concept art.

Dusk seems more iffy tho.

 

[Deleted member]

With Lycanroc seemingly dead, who are the remaining contenders for the PokeSlot?
I can't think of any noteworthy contenders aside from Decidueye, Incineroar, and Mimikyu.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I think the one Gen 7 with the most chances right now is Incineroar
.
Given the time the project plan was done, concept art is really the thing that’ll give us a Gen 7 Pokemon at this point. Lycanroc’s was already shared, but what of other contenders?

Decidueye’s is just him pulling arrows. We already have 5 characters who can do that and since only concept art has weight now, Sakurai doesn’t see any Ghost-type shenanigans Decidueye could’ve had.

Forgot the water starter, but then again, it’s never really been a topic of discussion and it’s basically just a seal. Nothing noteworthy there.

Meanwhile, Incineroar’s straight up show him doing wrester moves, already giving Sakurai a good moveset archetype that has yet to be in a Smash game.

 

[Pokechu]

how is lycanroc dead?

 

[RileyXY1]

With Lycanroc seemingly dead, who are the remaining contenders for the PokeSlot?
I can't think of any noteworthy contenders aside from Decidueye, Incineroar, and Mimikyu.

That's really it, but I don't think that there will even be a Pokemon newcomer this time around.

 

[papagenos]

There's a pissibility that this wasn't finalized until 2016.

looking at the concept art...i can see why people think pyras going to have to be censored... her bootys a problem even from a front angle.

 

[Pakky]

Its Mimikyu or Incenaror judging from concepts

looking at the concept art...i can see why people think pyras going to have to be censored... her bootys a problem even from a front angle.

Looks over at Bayo in the side of the bar... Nah...

 

[KingBroly]

how is lycanroc dead?

Lycanroc wasn't popular out of the gate. He only became popular after Gen 7 started.

 

[ThreeT]

RIP the dream of Rex and Pyra making it to base roster. Don't mind waiting though. This does make things interesting however and limits the possible contenders for the next game.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

lol because I'm stuck on a gamepad instead of a PC True Blue's still didn't work. Sorry man

There's a pissibility that this wasn't finalized until 2016.

Oh right, this. The concept art at first glance, would tell me they'd be annoying to model because of the details although that wouldn't be a factor. I'd get the impression Rex is an adventurer who uses a hookshot, not a swordy
also lol piss-ibility I'm 8

I think the one Gen 7 with the most chances right now is Incineroar
.
Given the time the project plan was done, concept art is really the thing that’ll give us a Gen 7 Pokemon at this point. Lycanroc’s was already shared, but what of other contenders?

Decidueye’s is just him pulling arrows. We already have 5 characters who can do that and since only concept art has weight now, Sakurai doesn’t see any Ghost-type shenanigans Decidueye could’ve had.

Forgot the water starter, but then again, it’s never really been a topic of discussion and it’s basically just a seal. Nothing noteworthy there.

Meanwhile, Incineroar’s straight up show him doing wrester moves, already giving Sakurai a good moveset archetype that has yet to be in a Smash game.

Wait who are the other 3 arrow users?

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Wait who are the other 3 arrow users?

Link
Young Link
Toon Link
Pit
Dark Pit

 

[StrangeMann]

how is lycanroc dead?

The project plan was finished in December 2015, when DLC for the previous game was still being developed. Gathering staff together for the new Smash was done later. pic.twitter.com/w1JyrtlKo7

— Source Gaming (@AllSourceGaming) June 20, 2018

Roster was finalized before sun/moon, far before dusk lycanroc (easily the most advertised/popular form)
Sakurai likely used concept art like greninja

 

[RileyXY1]

Don't get your hopes up about a new Pokemon character. We might not get one.

 

[papagenos]

Its Mimikyu or Incenaror judging from concepts

Yeah i'd say those are the top contenders now if we get a new pokemon rep. Decidueye got popular more so after the games release, incineroar seems to be the starter that was pushed with concept art and mimikyu was also stressed to promote the game from the start.

 

[Fenriraga]

There's a possibility that this wasn't finalized until 2016. We know facial expressions were not until then.

According to Push and NantenJex, they were not finalized until December 2016. A full year after Ultimate was finalized.

So I think it's probably a safe bet these two might have missed the A train and are more likely for the D...LC train.

 

[MBRedboy31]

Just wondering, but, in general, does a series really need to prove itself with sales first to get a rep? If it’s recent but not doing all that well, an appearance in Smash could help save it, since that’s one of the most signifiant forms of advertising possible.

 

[Pacack]

Remember, "Pokemon Sun and Moon Newcomer" would be a placeholder until TPC had a better idea of who to suggest. Sakurai would not have had to make a choice on a particular Pokemon until later.

 

[Sharkarat]

DKC is not a Mario sub-series. If anything, both are spin-offs of Arcade DK.

twin-series or whatever you want to call it. the Point being that DK is mainstay in Mario Games (Sports, Kart & party), so if he hadn't had his own big thing he would be a mario character.

 

[KingBroly]

Sakurai said he wanted Geno playable in early 2016, right?

I don't think he'd show his hand like that, so...I'm guessing Geno won't be playable.

 

[TCT~Phantom]

There's a possibility that this wasn't finalized until 2016. We know facial expressions were not until then.

Facial expressions were finalized in general after every character's design was, if you check the list that everyone uses for that. Rex and Pyra's colored and outlined designs are not mentioned. With the earliest outlined and colored design being in April 2016 on that list, I feel it is safe to say they were done before that, probs way before given they are the two main characters.

Facial animations =/= character design

 

[Green_Pikmin*]

Because he has said before that once the roster is finalized, it's set in stone.

I did a bit of research to give some people going for these characters some hope. Xenoblade 2 apparently began development as early as July 2014 which was in the middle of Chronicles X’s development and about a year and half before Project Plans we’re finished for Smash Ultimate. In other news I found interesting notes that ARMS planned to add characters like Mario, Link, and Punchout representation but decided not to do it, couldn’t find the development time but to be safe I would go with atleast early 2016 as NX rumors began floating around.

Better hope Xenoblade 2 and ARMS was in Sakurais plans around late 2015/early 2016.
As far as Decidueye or any other Gen 7 Rep, I can see this easily being the same case for Greninja especially with Gen 7 pokeball items confirmed. Lastly those wondering about a new fire emblem character, FE Three Houses can definitely be seen as DLC. Though seeing how big the game is, I could see it have been in development soon after Fire Emblem Fates which released back in 2015 in Japan.

(Just my thoughts)

 

[Deleted member]

Don't get your hopes up about a new Pokemon character. We might not get one.

We get it, you don't want a new Pokemon.
We've given up on convincing you why there's nothing wrong with Pokemon having 10 reps because talking to you is like talking to a brick wall, but let us have a discussion. This is the first time I've enjoyed discussing a characters' chances in a long time.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Don't get your hopes up about a new Pokemon character. We might not get one.

You're only saying that because you think no series but Mario should have 10 reps, which it technically already does because Yoshi and Wario are essentially Mario characters who eventually became their own things. Sakurai counts them as separate, but they're still Mario characters.



And that's not even counting the DK characters or the Koopalings.

But with that said, as biased as your opinion may be, it's still something to consider. A Greninja situation isn't a guarantee, after all, only speculation.

 

[Pokechu]

Lycanroc wasn't popular out of the gate. He only became popular after Gen 7 started.

so? none of the pokemon were really popular out of the gate. Rowlet was pretty popular but that's about it. I don't recall many G7 Pokemon being popular out of the gate. but idk SuMo pre-release was like 2 years ago so i may be wrong

But regardless if it's a placeholder situation, popularity wouldn't matter; Greninja was chosen to be in Smash before he was even revealed to the public IIRC.

The project plan was finished in December 2015, when DLC for the previous game was still being developed. Gathering staff together for the new Smash was done later. pic.twitter.com/w1JyrtlKo7

— Source Gaming (@AllSourceGaming) June 20, 2018

Roster was finalized before sun/moon, far before dusk lycanroc (easily the most advertised/popular form)
Sakurai likely used concept art like greninja

There were placeholders for additional Lycanroc forms on the Pokemon Global Link, a few days before SuMo released and they definitely had to have Dusk finished as it's Ash's main Pokemon for the anime.

also if it's a placeholder then they could just leave the slot open until later on in development, they don't have to have a specific pokemon in mind right then.

 

[StrangeMann]

Remember, "Pokemon Sun and Moon Newcomer" would be a placeholder until TPC had a better idea of who to suggest. Sakurai would not have had to make a choice on a particular Pokemon until later.

Although this is true, the chances of an ultra Pokémon are unlikely, including lycanroc dusk. Dusk is easily the most popular and advertised lycanroc form as well.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

so? none of the pokemon were really popular out of the gate. Rowlet was pretty popular but that's about it. I don't recall many G7 Pokemon being popular out of the gate. but idk SuMo pre-release was like 2 years ago so i may be wrong

But regardless if it's a placeholder situation, popularity wouldn't matter; Greninja was chosen to be in Smash before he was even revealed to the public IIRC.

It means the only way a Gen 7 Pokemon can get in is if Sakurai thinks the design is cool enough to warrant it, like Greninja in Smash 4

 

[Pokechu]

You're only saying that because you think no series but Mario should have 10 reps, which it technically already does because Yoshi and Wario are essentially Mario characters who eventually became their own things. Sakurai counts them as separate, but they're still Mario characters.



And that's not even counting the DK characters or the Koopalings.

But with that said, as biased as your opinion may be, it's still something to consider. A Greninja situation isn't a guarantee, after all, only speculation.

Isn't that kind of contradictory? "Technically" isn't "definitely" and you said yourself that Sakurai (the head of Smash) counts them separate.

The Mario series in Smash has 8 characters, as Yoshi and Wario represent their own series.

but I digress, we're both right anyways

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Isn't that kind of contradictory? "Technically" isn't "definitely" and you said yourself that Sakurai (the head of Smash) counts them separate.

The Mario series in Smash has 8 characters, as Yoshi and Wario represent their own series.

but I digress, we're both right anyways

Indeed. Plus, Pokemon has 10 reps anyway if you count the Trainer as separate from its own Pokemon

 

[Pacack]

According to Push and NantenJex, they were not finalized until December 2016. A full year after Ultimate was finalized.

So I think it's probably a safe bet these two might have missed the A train and are more likely for the D...LC train.

I agree, but my understanding is that it was facial expressions that had yet to be finalized at that point. I don't want to make any concrete statement on that unless I know for sure.

 

[TCT~Phantom]

Although this is true, the chances of an ultra Pokémon are unlikely, including lycanroc dusk. Dusk is easily the most popular and advertised lycanroc form as well.

But Dusk was likely conceived earlier on, due to its prominence in the anime. The anime has to be planned way in advance, so dusk was likely planned at least in 2016. Also we know it was at least done by sun and moon's release due to the lycanroc placeholders on the gts. I feel that gives Sakurai enough wiggle room for his Gen 7 Pokemon newcomer spot.

 

[**Gilgamesh**]

You realize that's also not Sakurai speaking English, right? It's a rough translation. They also say "MAY be as small as". I don't understand why everyone takes everything with such extreme confirmation and have such closed minds to other possibilities. We don't know anything about this game.

On top of that. He said "the Nintendo 64 roster", not "the original Nintendo 64 starting roster without the unlockable characters." 15 is literally 3 numbers away from 12.

I think sourcegaming just confirmed that Sakurai said only the original 12/8 will be playable and acknowledges that some people may find it a hassle; BUT HE'S FATHER SAKURAI!

 

[Dr. Jojo Phantasma]

According to Push and NantenJex, they were not finalized until December 2016. A full year after Ultimate was finalized.

So I think it's probably a safe bet these two might have missed the A train and are more likely for the D...LC train.

Yeah even I admit that it is curtains for our favorite duo making the roster. Oh well bring on Elma and then have Rex for DLC.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

This does help to explain Skye Bennett going out of her way to state she wasn't contacted for Smash on Twitter. Keep in mind that we already know voice work gets finished over a year before a Smash game releases given that Pit's VA, Antony Del Rio, hinted at him having done Smash sometime relatively shortly after E3 2013.

 

[Pokechu]

It means the only way a Gen 7 Pokemon can get in is if Sakurai thinks the design is cool enough to warrant it, like Greninja in Smash 4

Which it still entirely possible with Dusk/Dark/Day/Twilight/Whoever Lycanroc, just as possible for him as it is Decidueye, Mimikyu, Incineroar, etc.

im gonna laugh if we just end up getting gardevoir as a zelda echo lol

 

[WaddleMatt]

Can we stop with the 'reps' ****. I don't think it matters which series has more characters, just which series can provide good characters.

 

[Pacack]

Honestly, y'all are sleeping on Nihilego. A poison/rock type and the most prominent of the Ultra Beasts is not a bad resume.

 

[Shyy_Guy595]

So, does the two "shoo-ins" being unlikely due to timing and others being disconfirmed through AT possibly bump up the chances of a few other characters that were deemed a little less likely during the pre-reveal speculations? Most notably a certain Waddle Dee and adventurous Toad?