Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Mogu]

Sakurai said he wanted Geno playable in early 2016, right?

I don't think he'd show his hand like that, so...I'm guessing Geno won't be playable.

Eh, not proof if you ask me. That was in regards to Smash Wii U & 3DS, not the next Smash down the line. Plus, we had Bossley in Smash Wii U where around the time the last DLC characters were revealed and released for Wii U, the Ultimate roster was being finalized with Ridley as playable. Someone correct me if I'm not remembering correctly and got any of that wrong.

 

[PsySmasher]

Don't get your hopes up about a new Pokemon character. We might not get one.

I agree with this statement specifically. As much as I love Pokemon and absolute don't mind it get a 10th rep, I could legitimately see this as the first Smash where we don't get a new Pokemon rep (in the base roster).

 

[Darkraid]

It would be a Greninja situation where they add a Pokémon based on early concept art.



Yeah. K.Rool has been elevated to likely while Spring-Man is now incredibly unlikely. I think the only characters that survived the event were Bandana Dee and a Gen 7 Pokémon.

That would be a GREAT roster tho

 

[TheMagic1]

We get it, you don't want a new Pokemon.
We've given up on convincing you why there's nothing wrong with Pokemon having 10 reps because talking to you is like talking to a break wall, but let us have a discussion. This is the first time I've enjoyed discussing a characters' chances in a long time.

Pokemon having 10 reps? It would be cool, but Mario should get 10 too if that's the case.

 

[Pacack]

I agree with this statement specifically. As much as I love Pokemon and absolute don't mind it get a 10th rep, I could legitimately see this as the first Smash where we don't get a new Pokemon rep (in the base roster).

I agree with this sentiment also. There's a solid chance that Sakurai would wait until DLC to include a Pokemon newcomer since he's bringing back three Pokemon anyways.

 

[Will]

Sakurai said he wanted Geno playable in early 2016, right?

I don't think he'd show his hand like that, so...I'm guessing Geno won't be playable.

Sakurai showed Ridley's shadow on Pyrosphere right?
I don't think he'd show hand like that, so... I'm guessing Ridley is playable.

 

[Fenriraga]

Sakurai said he wanted Geno playable in early 2016, right?

I don't think he'd show his hand like that, so...I'm guessing Geno won't be playable.

By that logic, Sakurai wouldn't have already shown his hand with the likes of K Rool either.
Or Ridley in Pyrospyere.
Or Inking's Mii Costumes.
Sakurai said Cloud is what helped present the opportunity for Geno's costume, and of course he would put in someone as Iconic as Cloud before Geno. If anything, it just helps show that Geno may very well be next in line for a Square rep in his mind. But that's just assumption.

I think it's a bit too soon to write off DLC Mii costumes as de-confirmation.

 

[Mega Bidoof]

Also, all of the amiibo is usable in Smash Ultimate, right?

What if this means Shovel Knight is a potential candidate again?

If Shovel Knight is noteably more likely because he has an amiibo, then Toad, Waluigi, a Goomba, a Koopa, a Boo, Chibi-Robo, a BotW Guardian, a Bokoblin, Toon Zelda, Poochy, Detective Pikachu, Chrom, Tiki, Celica, Alm, a Metroid, Callie, Marie, Pearl, Marina, an Octoling, Wolf Link, a generic non-Bandana’d Waddle Dee, and about a dozen Animal Crossing characters are also all likely to be included.

What a cast of all-stars.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Which it still entirely possible with Dusk/Dark/Day/Twilight/Whoever Lycanroc, just as possible for him as it is Decidueye, Mimikyu, Incineroar, etc.

im gonna laugh if we just end up getting gardevoir as a zelda echo lol

Not Dusk. This one is from Ultra. All I can see is a potential color swap if Lycanroc gets in...

But that's only if the concept art for Lycanroc is good enough for Sakurai.

 

[Bowserlick]

If Sakurai included Bomberman as another Konami rep, there would be two characters that relied on explosions from that company.

Thus Simon Belmont is in.

 

[DarkFalcon]

I wonder if this means anything for Banjo & Kazooie. Weren't they highly requested in the ballot? With the news of how early the project plan was finished this could give them a possible boost. Though since it's 3rd party that can make it a toss up.

 

[Will]

If Sakurai included Bomberman as another Konami rep, there would be two characters that relied on explosions from that company.

Thus Simon Belmont is in.

I'm always on Team Bill Rizer my dude. Or Raiden, either/or.

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

Ultimate's Project Plan was completed in December 2015:

https://twitter.com/AllSourceGaming/status/1009455106637656064

Spring Man and Rex+Pyra definitely aren't making it, then.

Wowowosowso 2015?! No one saw that coming.

So quickly out of this I gather
1. Mostly Ballot represented. Even less games came out in that time.
2. No Switch representation characterwise, rip ARMS
3. I'm more unsure about any Xenoblade character...right now it feels like the series grew a lot but in 2015? I'm not sure about it.
4. Gen 7 Pokemon probably happened similar to the Gen 6 starter. Decideueye, Inceniroar and Mimikyu most likely, wish I could lower my Lycanroc score in the Rate Character thread lol.

Gunna rework my prediction roster now...

This is just too much Pokemon. It doesn't deserve ten reps. Only Mario does.

Don't get your hopes up about a new Pokemon character. We might not get one.

Want to remind you and everyone else that you were also adamant that Ridley wouldn't be included before his E3 reveal

 

[Slavic]

I wonder if this means anything for Banjo & Kazooie. Weren't they highly requested in the ballot? With the news of how early the project plan was finished this could give them a possible boost. Though since it's 3rd party that can make it a toss up.

From what I understand it would be a breeze getting them because Microsoft is okay with B&K for Smash. I think everything lays on whether Sakurai cares and/or how successful they were on the ballot.

 

[Pacack]

I wonder if this means anything for Banjo & Kazooie. Weren't they highly requested in the ballot?

As with any ballot character sans Bayonetta, we do not know their results.

 

[Fenriraga]

Also, all of the amiibo is usable in Smash Ultimate, right?

What if this means Shovel Knight is a potential candidate again?

Friendly reminder that Shovel Knight's amiibo is what started the whole mess of him being in Smash to begin with, only for it to just be for his game since at the time there were no Amiibo besides Smash Amiibo.

So no, I don't think it means anything for his chances.

 

[Sonic Poke]

Since the roster was decided just after the ballot, I think the likes of K. Rool/ Dixie, Captain Toad, Shovel Knight, Elma, Rayman, Bandana Dee, Chrom and Isaac are much more likely.
Sceptile did well on the Ballot. If Sakurai decided to add a Pokemon from the most recent game instead of the one coming, perhaps he has a shot. A very slim shot.

 

[Pokechu]

Not Dusk. This one is from Ultra. All I can see is a potential color swap if Lycanroc gets in...

But that's only if the concept art for Lycanroc is good enough for Sakurai.

Dusk is still completely possible. It had to be finalized for the anime and there were placeholders on the Pokemon Global Link for more Lycanroc forms before SuMo released.

And it's not all about concept art; decisions aren't made with JUST concept art in mind, as the Pokemon could easily be misrepresented. Design notes, lore, etc. are also used and concept art doesn't detail anything about the Pokemon's moveset, which Smash must know in order to have them as a playable character.

 

[zeldasmash]

I wonder if this means anything for Banjo & Kazooie. Weren't they highly requested in the ballot? With the news of how early the project plan was finished this could give them a possible boost. Though since it's 3rd party that can make it a toss up.

Phil Spencer said he'd have no problems with Banjo being in the game.

 

[92MilesPrower]

Now that we know the project plan was finalized in 2015, I believe that Lycanroc out of all potentially playable Gen 7 Pokémon has taken the hardest hit. If any of its forms were to appear as playable it'd likely be Dusk, which I doubt even existed yet in 2015, while the original 2 forms were still being finalized. It's either Incineroar, Decidueye, Mimikyu, an Ultra Beast, or nothing.

 

[Will]

Sceptile did well on the Ballot.

I never really supported Gen 3 just to "complete" the whole region thing but why Sceptile instead of Grovyle?

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Dusk is still completely possible. It had to be finalized for the anime and there were placeholders on the Pokemon Global Link for more Lycanroc forms before SuMo released.

And it's not all about concept art; decisions aren't made with JUST concept art in mind, as the Pokemon could easily be misrepresented. Design notes, lore, etc. are also used and concept art doesn't detail anything about the Pokemon's moveset, which Smash must know in order to have them as a playable character.

Yeah, but the project plan for Ultimate was done in December 2015. Two months after the ballot and 11 months before Sun and Moon's release.

If a Gen 7 character gets in, it's for the same reason Greninja did; because Sakurai could have a look at some designs and pick whichever one looks the best.

 

[Pacack]

3. I'm more unsure about any Xenoblade character...right now it feels like the series grew a lot but in 2015? I'm not sure about it.

Please note that Xenoblade Chronicles X more than doubled the sales of Xenoblade Chronicles 1 despite being on an underperforming console.

 

[PeridotGX]

Honestly, y'all are sleeping on Nihilego. A poison/rock type and the most prominent of the Ultra Beasts is not a bad resume.

It has a weird body shape, so it would be tricky to get working. Would definitely be unique though.

 

[Pokechu]

Yeah, but the project plan for Ultimate was done in December 2015. Two months after the ballot and 11 months before Sun and Moon's release.

If a Gen 7 character gets in, it's for the same reason Greninja did; because Sakurai could have a look at some designs and pick whichever one looks the best.

Yee, you're not wrong! I was just saying that Dusk is still a possibility as it's likely its design was finalized by then.

 

[Sonic Poke]

I never really supported Gen 3 just to "complete" the whole region thing but why Sceptile instead of Grovyle?

Grovyle is much a more niche option. Sceptile was a top contender back then, while Grovyle wasn't.

 

[Mogu]

Phil Spencer said he'd have no problems with Banjo being in the game.

I wish that'd happen, not like Microsoft's doing anything great with the poor bear and bird..

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Yee, you're not wrong! I was just saying that Dusk is still a possibility as it's likely its design was finalized by then.

Dusk Lycanroc was introduced in Ultra Sun and Moon. If Lycanroc gets in, it can't be Dusk.

It's gotta be Midday or Midnight, with Dusk being, at best, a palette swap.

 

[Will]

Please note that Xenoblade Chronicles X more than doubled the sales of Xenoblade Chronicles 1 despite being on an underperforming console.

I wonder why the sequel outlasted the original that was barely sold in stores plus a remake that required a completely revamped version of a preexisting console to run in sales.

 

[RandomAce]

I wish that'd happen, not like Microsoft's doing anything great with the poor bear and bird..

If Rare wasn’t bought by Microsoft, Banjo would’ve been in Smash by Brawl at this point.

 

[_Sheik]

I hope we can have private online lobbies just like in ARMS; being able to switch characters between matches and choose the stages too. Smash 4 felt like a downer for me and my friends since we had to make pre-determined groups of four people per lobby. ARMS does it well since it swaps players around for almost every new match, which allows for more variety in matchups (but Smash Ultimate would let us pick our opponents in said lobby at will, I'd hope)

 

[Shyy_Guy595]

Oh! That time-slot also probably led to what happened with the Zelda newcomers as well, since BotW was still in development and Sakurai only saw VERY little of it. I'm talking maybe only concept art and a few instances of gameplay, which is why he only got the Remote Bombs and purely cosmetic changes everywhere else (though at least he has the only archer FS of the Zelda cast).

As for Zelda, he probably didn't know that Zelda gained some of her gifted holy powers at that point and was probably told exactly what he said: She prefers research to fighting.

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

Please note that Xenoblade Chronicles X more than doubled the sales of Xenoblade Chronicles 1 despite being on an underperforming console.

Basing it off Wikipedia's sales number, Xenoblade 1 sold more than X in Japan in less time.

My bigger point was that at the time the plan was made X was only just released in America. In Japan it wasn't selling as well as the original. Sales aren't everything I'm just not sure Sakurai would feel Elma neccesary to add.

 

[Fenriraga]

With the Ballot, Microsoft claiming that they'd be okay with Banjo & Kazooie being in Smash, and RARE recently going out of its way to say it's open to letting other companies handle their classic IPs, I think the Bear and Bird's chances are at an all time high. Only time will tell though, of course.

EDIT: Not saying or claiming how well Banjo did in the ballot, just that the voices calling out for the two at least no longer fell on deaf ears.

 

[Sharkarat]

I wonder if this means anything for Banjo & Kazooie. Weren't they highly requested in the ballot?

This comment isn't targeted only at you but,
WE HAVE NO IDEA HOW WELL ANYONE DID ON THE BALLOT, except Bayonetta. sorry, but i'm just a little annoyed how often people bring up ballot result as an argument when we know that we know very little of the actual results. We only know Bayonetta is 1st in Europa and in top5 five in the US, while in fan made polls she got at most 10th place.

 

[Slavic]

I wonder why the sequel outlasted the original that was barely sold in stores plus a remake that required a completely revamped version of a preexisting console to run in sales.

Lmao. And the XC2 comes along and sells double the sales of the first too combined. I’m terrified to see how the next game does.

 

[Pacack]

Sceptile did well on the Ballot.

We. Don't. Know. The. Ballot. Results.

We can make educated guesses about the results; we can speculate on the results; but we do not know the results.

 

[DarkFalcon]

I don't think Dusk Lycanroc is likely at all. The Sun and Moon anime aired nearly a year later from when the project plan was apparently finished, and I think Dusk Lycanroc didn't even appear for nearly 40 episodes. That's well over a year. The Pokemon anime is well scheduled, but they aren't THAT ahead.

Plus Dusk Lycanroc's concept art lacks any sort of interesting qualities unlike Greninja.

 

[Sonic Poke]

We. Don't. Know. The. Ballot. Results.

We can make educated guesses about the results; we can speculate on the results; but we do not know the results.

Feir enough. That was an educated guess based on the polls people did.
People wanted him back then and y'all know it is true.

 

[RandomAce]

Dusk Lycanroc was introduced in Ultra Sun and Moon. If Lycanroc gets in, it can't be Dusk.

It's gotta be Midday or Midnight, with Dusk being, at best, a palette swap.

Although Dusk was introduced much later it was most likely finalized around end of 2016. Albeit the concept art makes wonder if Dusk Lycanroc was actually rushed seeing how even it’s sheet references is the same Midday’s reference sheet.

Either way all forms still have a chance, it seems that Dusk from did get hit since it design probably wasn’t finalized yet. The anime is well planned and far ahead, but not by an entire year, the story draft might’ve, but not the anime.