Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Will]

Hot dang, if the project plan was FINALIZED at that time, the ballot is seriously going to have a bigger influence than we could have hoped. That would mean they began making the plan hot off the heels of it.

This is gonna be an interesting roster.

Maybe that's why Waluigi was casually introduced and killed off: Nobody (in significant numbers) really voted him in because he already had no chance at the time.

 

[RileyXY1]

This is just too much Pokemon. It doesn't deserve ten reps. Only Mario does.

 

[papagenos]

Quick note, Sakurai can pick characters based off of concept art for all he cares.

Regardless, I think we should stay ultra conservative in our speculation this time around.

I'm trying to stay that way, guessing at 6-8 more characters, trying to only guess at the ones who truly have a chance and yet i still find myself guessing Geno and it worries me because i dont want to be let down if i keep thinking hes extremely likely... but i cant help it he really feels pretty likely this time around, I'll make a list of simon belmon/k rool/dixie/waddle dee etc... and i'll add a new pokemon or ashley or impa or someone else whos pretty likely and cut out room for geno but whenever i do i find myself still feeling hes more likely and making room for him.

i'm totally fine with not getting Geno, i have little mac and he's enough for me to be happy and have a genuine main, but i cant help but feel hes likely and if he isnt in and i keep psyching myself up for him i might actually be disappointed where with smash4 i essentially thought he was a long shot until AFTER the ballot and DLC happened so i was never really let down. Seeing the Mii costume was actually an awesome moment where he sort-of got in the game instead of a deconfirmation after months of hope and speculation.

just worried i might be building myself up for a fall i never intended to take.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Mario, Luigi, Bowser, and Peach.

Pikachu, Jigglypuff, Charizard, Ivysaur, Squirtle, Lucario

And that's not counting the fact that Mewtwo along with what people assume to be Plusle and Minun were scrapped from the game.

 

[RandomAce]

Come to think of it, this does confirm that Elma would be the most recent Xenoblade character at the time the project plan would have been completed.

Yes. Elma is very likely now.

 

[Will]

This is just too much Pokemon. It doesn't deserve ten reps. Only Mario does.

I wouldn't mind it, you got 10 types that still haven't been utilized yet.

 

[Pacack]

Can I just briefly say that we already knew that the roster had been finalized by February of 2017 at the latest? We knew thaf Rex and Springman were outside of the planning period even before the announcement.

This isn't new; it's just that people are actually listening to what's been said now.

 

[Fenriraga]

...I'd also like to point out that this means Sakurai sat his butt down on that chair in the final Smash Direct knowing damn well he had already laid out the plans for bringing back every single character in the series, and , and still acted like Smash 4 was his Magnum Opus.

Sakurai you sly, sly dog.

 

[Will]

...I'd also like to point out that this means Sakurai sat his butt down on that chair in the final Smash Direct knowing damn well he had already laid out the plans for bringing back every single character in the series, and Ridley, and still acted like Smash 4 was his Magnum Opus.

Sakurai you sly, sly dog.

His magnum opus will probably be a Kirby game.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Can I just briefly say that we already knew that the roster had been finalized by February of 2017 at the latest? We knew thaf Rex and Springman were outside of the planning period even before the announcement.

This isn't new; it's just that people are actually listening to what's been said now.

Yeah, but this announcement still changes speculation a bit because, considering December 2015 was two months after the ballot ended, that means said Ballot is gonna have a large impact for this game.

So I guess you people shouldn't be surprised if we see K. Rool or something like that.

 

[TCT~Phantom]

Just as a reminder that XC2 started development in 2015. Also despite that popular design schedule shared around, that only discussed their facial expressions, their art was likely done at least before April 2016, perhaps as early as 2015 given they are the main characters. I would say that they have a good shot in a Greninja situation. Rex and Pyra aint dead yet.

 

[Sonic Poke]

The problem is that Pokemon is surpassing Mario, Nintendo's flagship franchise. No franchise should ever surpass Mario, not even Pokemon.

Pokemon surpassed Mario in Brawl. Mario had four while pokemon had six. There are not any rules about number of reps.

 

[Will]

Pokemon surpassed Mario in Brawl. Mario had four while pokemon had six. There are not any rules about number of reps.

Unless you're Fire Emblem

 

[Pacack]

Just as a reminder that XC2 started development in 2015. Also despite that popular design schedule shared around, that only discussed their facial expressions. I would say that they have a good shot in a Greninja situation.

Greninja only happened because of TPC.

Sakurai could not have known how the Switch, let alone XC2, would be received. Why would he choose Rex and Pyra, who were at the time unproven and unknown, when he had Elma, the pseudo-protagonist of the best selling Xenoblade title at that time?

 

[KingBroly]

Just as a reminder that XC2 started development in 2015. Also despite that popular design schedule shared around, that only discussed their facial expressions, their art was likely done at least before April 2016, perhaps as early as 2015 given they are the main characters. I would say that they have a good shot in a Greninja situation. Rex and Pyra aint dead yet.

Sakurai penciled in 'New Pokemon' for Greninja, not 'JRPG characters I have no idea about.' He knew Pokemon would be a success, he didn't for Xenoblade 2.

 

[papagenos]

Sakurai always says he decides the roster early on and then doesnt deviate from it, we also know he prioritizes characters and he seems to always intend for more characters than they can make in time. clones often happen towards the end to make the roster a bit bigger.

this time he clearly prioritized all the veterans and we arent getting "too many more" newcomers.

well we already have daisy as a clone character so hopefully that means we are at the "adding clones" stage of adding characters so we'll get all the intended roster choices. its possible he choose less newcomers than usual since he wasnt sure how many he could realistically implement if he first intended to get all the veterans back and has found time for clones still, echo fighters now but same thing.

obviously no 2 smash games development cycles are the same but based on how sakurai says he does this, we might not have the remains of unfinished characters like chorus men/toon zelda etc... left over in the coding as he may have accurately predicted how much time he'd need to implement all the characters he wants in the game and we'll actually get his full roster this time.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Boy! This changes speculation.

Though, the project plan being completed on December makes me wonder if Elma was in earlier roster drafts. When was the first draft completed then? Would Elma be removed in the final roster draft with her Japanese release coming out too late by then? I have many questions.

I am still going to bank on Lycanroc, because Sakurai can still plan one year ahead for Pokemon inclusions.

Bank you say? Good choice of words Blue

His magnum opus will probably be a Kirby game.

Nah fam Mushi is his Magnum Opus

This is just too much Pokemon. It doesn't deserve ten reps. Only Mario does.

Nah, I'd argue 10 is too much for Mario currently

Maybe that's why Waluigi was casually introduced and killed off: Nobody (in significant numbers) really voted him in because he already had no chance at the time.

I'd argue that Sakurai just doesn't feel effort is worth it because Waluigi is mostly sports. A Mario character limited to that could be seen as stretching it, idk

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Greninja only happened because of TPC.

Sakurai could not have known how the Switch, let alone XC2, would be received. Why would he choose Rex and Pyra, who were at the time unproven, when he had Elma, the pseudo-protagonist of the best selling Xenoblade title at the time?

You know, come to think of it, given Greninja was chosen because Sakurai thought he'd be interesting because of his concept art, there is no guarantee that Sakurai would even find Rex interesting based off his concept art if he was willing to give him the Greninja treatment.

 

[StrangeMann]

I think that the fact the plan was finalized in 2015 is very bad for Lycanroc in particular.
While Sun/Moon starters and Mimikyu were born successful, with confident and diverse concept art, Lycanroc was not. Lycanroc is a Pokémon that grew into a popular Pokémon instead of being born one. I would post the concept art of all these Pokémon again but I’m on a cell phone, could someone do that for me?

 

[MagnesD3]

My ultimate list (roster want wise)

Nintendo

1. Krystal (assist trophy x.x)
2. Saki
3. Paper Mario
4. Demise
5. Lyn (assist trophy x.x)
6. King K. Rool
7. Tom Nook (final smash)
8. Blue (Second Pokemon Trainer)
9. Waluigi (assist)
10. Wolf Link and Midna (assist)

Honorable Mentions to replace those that are already deconfirmed

Porky
Impa
Black Shadow
Captain Toad
Isaac


Third Party

1. Banjo Kazooie
2. Spyro the Dragon
3. Crash Bandicoot
4. Sora
5. Master Chief


What I actually think will happen.

9 Newcomers Base Game

1. Inkling
2. Ridley
3. Arms character (new and they are gonna push it) (Twintelle, Spring Man or Ribbon Girl)
4. Mech Character (maybe Elma) (from mech/arm tweet thing)
5. Pokemon from new generation (they always do this)
6. Simon Belmont (leak)
7. Geno (Sakurai talks a lot about this character and we have cloud now)
8. King K Rool (costume and a huge fan base like Ridley)
9. Other Huge 3rd Party (Steve stage rumor so Hopefully Banjo Kazooie, popular with Nintendo fans) (Will be big surprise and super popular, probably high on poll)

3 Base Echo fighters

1. Daisy
2. Shadow (probably popular on the poll, easy to do no assist currently
3. Chrom (popular last game, got actively shunned but spotlighted, easy to do)


Dlc

1. Paper Mario (very popular, has many games)
2. Dixie Kong (super popular, easy semi clone)
3. Rayman ( Ubisoft is willing and works a lot with Nintendo)
4. Isaac (no assist, been wanted for awhile by fan base)
5. Crash Bandicoot (remaster on switch, Super popular)
6. Spyro ( remaster soon, probably coming to switch, popular with same crowd as crash)
7. Heihachi (Bandai Namco, Harada would be pleased I imagine)

 

[Bowserlick]

Give Snake back his landmine!

 

[PsySmasher]

There's still the possibility of Sakurai adding both Elma and Rex & Pyra into the base roster (although I think that's pretty unlikely).

 

[Pacack]

Also, Rex and Pyra would have had no reason to be included at the time since DLC exists.

Why make a gamble on a character that might be poorly received when you can wait to see if that character proves themselves worthy as an inclusion for DLC?

 

[Sharkarat]

In the Context of Pokemon surpassing Mario in character I feel it's worth mention that Mario actually has sub-series (DK, Yoshi & Wario), Giving it a total of 12 Characters.

Just as a reminder that XC2 started development in 2015. Also despite that popular design schedule shared around, that only discussed their facial expressions, their art was likely done at least before April 2016, perhaps as early as 2015 given they are the main characters. I would say that they have a good shot in a Greninja situation. Rex and Pyra aint dead yet.

series like Pikmin and Inkling had to wait an console before getting in, I don't think any series other than Pokemon would get a Greninja situation

 

[RandomAce]

I’m just going to say that we now have more newcomers to expect, seeing how much dev time Sakurai and his team has now.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

You know, come to think of it, given Greninja was chosen because Sakurai thought he'd be interesting because of his concept art, there is no guarantee that Sakurai would even find Rex interesting based off his concept art if he was willing to give him the Greninja treatment.

Do we have pics of Rex's concept art?
Come to think of it concept art is pretty important, it's what gave Sheik's Brawl design and likely a major influence for Zero Suit Samus' new look

 

[True Blue Warrior]

In the Context of Pokemon surpassing Mario in character I feel it's worth mention that Mario actually has sub-series (DK, Yoshi & Wario)

DKC is not a Mario sub-series. If anything, both are spin-offs of Arcade DK.

 

[Deleted member]

I think that the fact the plan was finalized in 2015 is very bad for Lycanroc in particular.
While Sun/Moon starters and Mimikyu were born successful, with confident and diverse concept art, Lycanroc was not. Lycanroc is a Pokémon that grew into a popular Pokémon instead of being born one. I would post the concept art of all these Pokémon again but I’m on a cell phone, could someone do that for me?

Didn't include Dusk Lycanroc because... well, yeah.
You're definitely right though, this does not bode well for Lycanroc's chances. Nothing about this concept art makes him look super appealing.

 

[Bowserlick]

Elma seems like a Sakurai choice. She is similar to Sheik and Zero Suit Samus and Bayonetta.

She would fill in the Smash Ultimate newcomer slot for speedy combo character.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Didn't include Dusk Lycanroc because... well, yeah.
You're definitely right though. Nothing about this concept art makes him look super appealing.

Welp. There we have it. Midnight will be a Ryu based Echo Fighter but his Hadouken is just a big rock

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Do we have pics of Rex's concept art?
Come to think of it concept art is pretty important, it's what gave Sheik's Brawl design and likely a major influence for Zero Suit Samus' new look

Here.

 

[Will]

Give Snake back his landmine!

You and what army?

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Here.

I'll just say it doesn't exist because it isn't loading for me lol

 

[StrangeMann]

Didn't include Dusk Lycanroc because... well, yeah.
You're definitely right though, this does not bode well for Lycanroc's chances. Nothing about this concept art makes him look super appealing.

I entirely forgot that dusk Lycanroc (the most popular form) only showed up in ultra. I think Lycanroc is probably toast.

 

[Deathcarter]

Sakurai penciled in 'New Pokemon' for Greninja, not 'JRPG characters I have no idea about.' He knew Pokemon would be a success, he didn't for Xenoblade 2.

To be fair, its not a stretch to say the new Xenoblade protagonist would be as well received as Elma or anybody from Xenoblade X. Her popularity is greatly overstated among speculators here. Doubly so since Sakurai would only have the Japanese reaction to go on (where it did worse than the original in sales). The lack of popularity goes for her as well.

 

[KingBroly]

Here.

*Squints

That doesn't look very interesting for something so small

 

[Jetsurge]

This is just too much Pokemon. It doesn't deserve ten reps. Only Mario does.

Pokemon makes more money than Mario in terms of merchandising

 

[True Blue Warrior]

I'll just say it doesn't exist because it isn't loading for me lol

This should work.

 

[TheMagic1]

Welp. It's been awhile, hasn't it?

 

[papagenos]

You know, come to think of it, given Greninja was chosen because Sakurai thought he'd be interesting because of his concept art, there is no guarantee that Sakurai would even find Rex interesting based off his concept art if he was willing to give him the Greninja treatment.

not only that but theres a big difference between pokemon, something that essentially cant fail, and xenoblade2 which certainly had the potential not to make a splash at all.

i never thought rex or xenoblade 2 had much of a shot at the base roster, though once again them and an ARMS rep feel like locks for DLC anyway.