Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Cutie Gwen]

I'm sorry had to stop there,what? Its a body suit...








I'm to understand why a C rated character has to be changed when a D rated character received none and there's a bikini clad fox girl running around, human or not that's still a little sexually charged.

Not as horribly tight nor stylized beyond parody to the point of not having sex appeal

Again, Bayonetta received changes. Her bust is smaller and she has leggings. They probably toned her butt down like her long ass legs but that's a proportion thing imo. Bayonetta's still herself, she just has a slight change that makes her acceptable.
Japan hates gore, and what do you know, Bayonetta's source game has her brutally torture while blood floods the entire country. If Bayonetta kept her torture attacks, then CERO would say "No, you can't have a child friendly rating if you include a guillotine". After all, Snake's games aren't exactly kid friendly and Snake Eater nearly got an Adults Only rating before Kojima remember that rating existed in America yet here he is.

 

[Galgatha]

Because everyone else is... even minus the stripping

I already mentioned the differences between Bayonetta and Pyra.

Also, Bayonetta, and very sexualized character, was toned down from her source game to Smash. As we have already pointed out. Pyra, who is equally, if not more so, sexualized, would also be toned down from her source game to Smash.

 

[Pakky]

Not as horribly tight nor stylized beyond parody to the point of not having sex appeal

Again, Bayonetta received changes. Her bust is smaller and she has leggings. They probably toned her butt down like her long *** legs but that's a proportion thing imo. Bayonetta's still herself, she just has a slight change that makes her acceptable.
Japan hates gore, and what do you know, Bayonetta's source game has her brutally torture while blood floods the entire country. If Bayonetta kept her torture attacks, then CERO would say "No, you can't have a child friendly rating if you include a guillotine". After all, Snake's games aren't exactly kid friendly and Snake Eater nearly got an Adults Only rating before Kojima remember that rating existed in America yet here he is.

Okay there's a blend of subjective and objectiveness going on here and I think I'm done. We'll see what happens.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Speaking of which, while not intending on being attacked or anything, as I can sense this conversation is starting to get...rowdy.

But is the age rating why characters like Shantae are on the "not likely" side?

It's certainly possible although Shantae's clothing makes more sense as she lives in a very warm area, so like Tharja, it makes sense in a realistic way. Bayonetta's sex appeal is done deliberately by her as she's proud of her sexuality and flirty. Pyra's just wearing that because the designer wanted her to be sexy

 

[Fenriraga]

Speaking of which, while not intending on being attacked or anything, as I can sense this conversation is starting to get...rowdy.

But is the age rating why characters like Shantae are on the "not likely" side?

Naw, Shantae's design really isn't as much of an issue as people make her out to be. Her games are still rated E10 minus Half Genie Hero, but 1/2 Genie was rated the way it was because of the game itself, not Shantae. So I think she's still tame enough, at least in my opinion.

Shantae is on the "not likely" spectrum because she's indie and has stiff competition. The former especially hitting harder than people want to believe.

Also she's a bad role model

 

[Mega Bidoof]

Why don’t we all just stop talking about boobs and talk about the letter P again instead?

 

[KingBroly]

Ultimate's Project Plan was completed in December 2015:

https://twitter.com/AllSourceGaming/status/1009455106637656064

Spring Man and Rex+Pyra definitely aren't making it, then.

 

[NextChannelGames]

So how will everybody pick their main? Do you stick with your old one? Learn your favorite character? Play everybody until one sticks? Have you already picked who your main will be?

For me, I will play everybody and see what sticks. I'm sure my current mains will still at the top of my list, but we'll see. I dont care who I play, as long as they fit my style.

Easy, I’ll main everyone

 

[RileyXY1]

Ultimate's Project Plan was completed in December 2015:

https://twitter.com/AllSourceGaming/status/1009455106637656064

Spring Man and Rex+Pyra definitely aren't making it, then.

Maybe as DLC, but not on-disc.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Why don’t we all just stop talking about boobs and talk about the letter P again instead?

We can now talk about 4 letters after the letter P that Falcon lost in the transition to Ultimate like how Snake lost his butt

 

[Will]

Snake's existence already guarantees a T rating, I believe.

 

[Galgatha]

So how will everybody pick their main? Do you stick with your old one? Learn your favorite character? Play everybody until one sticks? Have you already picked who your main will be?

For me, I will play everybody and see what sticks. I'm sure my current mains will still at the top of my list, but we'll see. I dont care who I play, as long as they fit my style.

I'm just gonna run random until some characters stick with me. I do have 2 mains though already...falco and bowser jr. Other than that, it's all up in the air.

I am interested in Pokemon Trainer though. Mid-air Pokemon changing, freaking awesome.

 

[StrangeMann]

Ultimate's Project Plan was completed in December 2015:

https://twitter.com/AllSourceGaming/status/1009455106637656064

Spring Man and Rex+Pyra definitely aren't making it, then.

Pokémon Sun and Moon came out late 2016... I guess no gen 7 pokemon either?

 

[Shyy_Guy595]

GG.

Decidueye is the only "shoo-in" left of the pre-reveal period left and even then, his chances have been noted to have been hindered as well.

 

[Ze Diglett]

Pokémon Sun and Moon came out late 2016... I guess no gen 7 pokemon either?

I dunno about that. Gen 8's out of the question (although it kind of was before, in my opinion), but a Gen 7 mon is still very much within the realm of possibility. Sun and Moon were less than a year away from release at that point, so it's very reasonable to assume that Sakurai pulled a Greninja again with Gen 7.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

If Pyra is not censored then... cool? I guess? I mean if they see that she needs to be censored for Smash 5, then I'm not stopping them; it's just not gonna matter to me either way.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Pokémon Sun and Moon came out late 2016... I guess no gen 7 pokemon either?

A Greninja situation can always happen, but given the size of the roster, how likely is that to happen?

 

[Shyy_Guy595]

Pokémon Sun and Moon came out late 2016... I guess no gen 7 pokemon either?

The concepts and designs could've been done, so there's hope, just extremely unlikely.

 

[TheHumanSonikku]

Also, all of the amiibo is usable in Smash Ultimate, right?

What if this means Shovel Knight is a potential candidate again?

 

[RileyXY1]

There might not even be a Pokemon newcomer this time around.

 

[DraginHikari]

Speaking of which, while not intending on being attacked or anything, as I can sense this conversation is starting to get...rowdy.

But is the age rating why characters like Shantae are on the "not likely" side?

Potentially. The rating of the Shantae by the ESRB has been slowly rising with each release as the suggestive themes have become a bit more obvious over time.

http://www.esrb.org/ratings/search.aspx?from=home&titleOrPublisher=Shantae

It's hard to say as more realistic the character looks the more stricter it seems. I don't think her general demeanor or personality to keep it tone down would be difficult. However toning down her appearance would be a bit harder as in the end Shantae IS suppose to utilizing belly dancing a method of using her magic so having to completely change her appearance to completely remove any suggestive elements would remove any identity of who the character is. That part could spell more doom for the character then anything else about the rating frankly.

This is different from Pyra as frankly, how sexualized Pyra is has nothing to do with her character or personality in the slightest. In fact her over sexualization seems to contradict Pyra's personality more then anything as she's kind of portrayed as the calm, caring, loving RPG girl trope which doesn't reflect much in her appearance at all.

 

[Shyy_Guy595]

Just love how Sakurai absolutely smashed (no pun intended) people's predictions so much so that even the popular shoo-ins have almost all been downgraded to "unlikely"

 

[Will]

Ultimate's Project Plan was completed in December 2015:

https://twitter.com/AllSourceGaming/status/1009455106637656064

Spring Man and Rex+Pyra definitely aren't making it, then.

Poor @Lampy then. I guess they are focusing on only the classic boys this time around. Well, 2015 and under I guess.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Boy! This changes speculation.

Though, the project plan being completed on December makes me wonder if Elma was in earlier roster drafts. When was the first draft completed then? Would Elma be removed in the final roster draft with her Japanese release coming out too late by then? I have many questions.

I am still going to bank on Lycanroc, because Sakurai can still plan one year ahead for Pokemon inclusions.

 

[WaddleMatt]

E3 is over and I remade my roster.

A total of 80 characters, 10 unique fighters and 5 echoes. It may seem like a stretch but I think it is definitley possible. (Before anyone asks the only reason I used the Hyrule Warriors icon for Zelda is because it is blonde).
Here are my reasonings:

Dixie Kong (Echo of Diddy): At first I was against the idea of her being a Diddy echo but just a very few move changes wouldn't hurt would it? Replacing Diddy's rocketbarrels with Dixie's hair doesn't seem too farfetched and just reskinning the peanuts as bubblegum doesn't either. I would much prefer her to be unique but I'll take what I can. Also Diddy's tail attacks seem to be gone so that helps.

King K. Rool: I was sceptical at first but he is next to Ridley in terms of how many people want him. Considering the amount of struggle it must have took to add Ridley that shows that Sakurai is listening, I feel K. Rool has quite a strong chance because of this. Also the ballot.

Impa (Echo of Sheik): She is Sheikah so it makes sense I guess. I would much prefer her as her own fighter but I think this could be a very real possibility especially with the Skyward Sword design.

Bandana Dee: My number one most wanted and I feel his chances have risen. The Sakurai bias rule for Kirby has been put down even more with Dedede's new Final Smash and the Waddle Dee amiibo space may be hinting towards something. Kirby has had so many new games since Smash 4, it is like a rebirth of the series and Bandana Dee is more prevalent then Dedede and Meta Knight in these newer games.

Lycanroc: In my opinion the most likely Pokemon pick, relevant in the anime and in marketing. We don't have an "earthbender" character yet and Lycanroc fits perfectly.

Chrom (Echo of Ike): We haven't seen him in Robin's Final Smash yet so maybe that is a hint? Also, remember him being too similar to Marth and Ike is why he wasn't added in Smash 4. Marth has an echo already so it would make sense for Chrom to be an echo of Ike.

Isabelle (Echo of Villager): It is no denying she is insanely popular and the face of Animal Crossing these days. I could definitley see her as an echo of Villager with some reskinned moves to make her seem less violent...

Lip: My pick for a retro, she has quite a nice following and I don't think we have seen the Lip's stick yet? Another puzzle game character would be a great and unique addition.

Elma: I was originally in belief of Rex and Pyra joining in but I feel they may have been too late, but I think they have a good shot at DLC. Elma would be quite unique it seems from what I have read (I have no Xenoblade knowledge sorry).

Chorus Men: A placeholder for any Rhythm Heaven character. It is likely that we will get one as it appears it was considered for Smash 4. I don't know which one though even though I personally want Tap Trial Girl due to her having a moveset beased around dance which is cool and different.

Simon Belmont: I have trust in Vergeben and either way I feel a second Konami rep is likely after the work to get Snake back and with Bomberman out of the picture who else could it be?

Rayman: Ubisoft and Nintendo are like best friends now, a perfect opportunity to get their mascot in Smash as a unique fighter.

If anyone has any questions and opinions please feel free to quote/mention me and ask. I would love to hear what people have to say about my predictions.

 

[Will]

Lycanroc: In my opinion the most likely Pokemon pick, relevant in the anime and in marketing. We don't have an "earthbender" character yet and Lycanroc fits perfectly.

Sorry for your loss.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

Dixie Kong (Echo of Diddy): At first I was against the idea of her being a Diddy echo but just a very few move changes wouldn't hurt would it? Replacing Diddy's rocketbarrels with Dixie's hair doesn't seem too farfetched and just reskinning the peanuts as bubblegum doesn't either. I would much prefer her to be unique but I'll take what I can. Also Diddy's tail attacks seem to be gone so that helps.

She wouldn't be an echo then.

Echo fighters, like Lucina, Dark Pit, and Daisy, are supposed to share the exact same attacks in their moveset except for their Final Smash, no exceptions whatsoever.

Making Dixie's up special her hair rather than Rocketbarrel Blast wouldn't make her an echo. It'd make her a clone at best.

 

[Deleted member]

Ultimate's Project Plan was completed in December 2015:

https://twitter.com/AllSourceGaming/status/1009455106637656064

Spring Man and Rex+Pyra definitely aren't making it, then.

View attachment 149240
Poor @Lampy then. I guess they are focusing on only the classic boys this time around. Well, 2015 and under I guess.

Didn't Smash Wii U/3DS's project plan finish in 2012 though? Or did it start back then?
If it's the former, Decidueye's chances have skyrocketed. If it's the latter, he's dead in the water.

 

[TheHumanSonikku]

The rating of the Shantae by the ESRB has been slowly rising with each release as the suggestive themes have become a bit more obvious over time.

Yeah, you have a point, especially with how Sakurai likes to home in on the origin games for certain series. I can see how paying homage could be... troublesome for the Shantae series.

 

[StrangeMann]

Just love how Sakurai absolutely smashed (no pun intended) people's predictions so much so that even the popular shoo-ins have almost all been downgraded to "unlikely"

Not necessarily.
This information makes a DK newcomer and Elma extremely likely for their series.
Arms reps, Xenoblade 2, and Splatoon 2 content is likely sunk.
I would also note that it harms or helps certain pokemon.
Lycanroc wasn't born a popular pokemon, It turned into one after it's creation. It's concept art shows that it was relatively not polished for the release of sun/moon compared to Mimikyu, Decidueye, Incineroar, Primarina, and the ultra beasts. If the project plan is from 2015, it's almost certain that the roster choice was based off of sun/moon concept art only.

 

[PlayerOneTyler]

15-20 is not, "as small as" 8.

You realize that's also not Sakurai speaking English, right? It's a rough translation. They also say "MAY be as small as". I don't understand why everyone takes everything with such extreme confirmation and have such closed minds to other possibilities. We don't know anything about this game.

On top of that. He said "the Nintendo 64 roster", not "the original Nintendo 64 starting roster without the unlockable characters." 15 is literally 3 numbers away from 12.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

I don't think we should totally disregard a possible Gen VII rep. After all, Sakurai chose Greninja out of the three starters after seeing concept art of them. Chances are the same thing happened here.

 

[RileyXY1]

I don't think we should totally disregard a possible Gen VII rep. After all, Sakurai chose Greninja out of the three starters after seeing concept art of them. Chances are the same thing happened here.

Pokemon currently has 9 reps.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Didn't Smash Wii U/3DS's project plan finish in 2012 though? Or did it start back then?
If it's the former, Decidueye's chances have skyrocketed. If it's the latter, he's dead in the water.

Either way, a Greninja situation is not unlikely.

But if that happens, does Decidueye's concept art has what it takes to be taken over someone like Incineroar?

 

[Shyy_Guy595]

Pokémon newcomers aren't out of the question, just maybe not from Gen 7.

 

[Will]

Didn't Smash Wii U/3DS's project plan finish in 2012 though? Or did it start back then?
If it's the former, Decidueye's chances have skyrocketed. If it's the latter, he's dead in the water.

I don't know, Incineroar looking like an actual fighter compared to the others in just seeing concept art could make things worse or less. No real wrestlers in the game.

 

[KingBroly]

Didn't Smash Wii U/3DS's project plan finish in 2012 though? Or did it start back then?
If it's the former, Decidueye's chances have skyrocketed. If it's the latter, he's dead in the water.

Considering Pokemon Trainer is back, there's no need to have another Grass Pokemon since you'd be stuck with a Fire Pokemon being left out. It'd be Mimikyu, Lycanroc, or no one.

 

[RileyXY1]

Pokémon newcomers aren't out of the question, just maybe not from Gen 7.

The only non Gen 7 Pokemon I can see them adding is Gardevoir. She's currently MIA from the Poke Ball Pokemon list.

 

[RandomAce]

Ultimate's Project Plan was completed in December 2015:

https://twitter.com/AllSourceGaming/status/1009455106637656064

Spring Man and Rex+Pyra definitely aren't making it, then.

Well **** that’s was a lot earlier than expected. This means a lot of things:

A) Development time for this game could begin in early 2016, allowing more time for more content.

B) The Smash Fighter Ballot proabably takes a larger role in the roster seeing how the projected roster was completed very close after the end of the ballot and DLC.

C) The relevant window could decrease for only games and characters up to 2016.

D) Pokémon Sun and Moon could now be in the same boot as Pokémon X and Y, when it comes for a Newcomer, ie being a place holder until there is more information on the new game.

However, games like Super Mario Odyssey are still represented in the game despite being far from done at that time, so maybe there is more lee way for “relevant” newcomers and content, but seeing how there wasn’t many hit games during the end of Wii U/3DS and early Switch era that aren’t represented yet, there probably isn’t enough characters for a newcomer line up, hence the ballot.

 

[Deleted member]

Either way, a Greninja situation is not unlikely.

But if that happens, does Decidueye's concept art has what it takes to be taken over someone like Incineroar?

That's a good point.
I just think it would mean that Decidueye's supposed lack of promotion and popularity that is constanstly used against it would become a nonfactor, unless TPCi told specifically wanted Sakurai to use other Pokemon.