Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Cutie Gwen]

I mean she still strips and is from a M rated game and is base content in this game while Pyra is only from a T for teen game though so...

Besides the characters are in near constant motion. so I really think this is being blown out of proportion.

Why do people always forget CERO exists? Sakurai expressed frustration with CERO as he needed to tone down Palutena from them. They had to done PALUTENA down because of CERO, the Japanese ESRB. Now look at Smash's CERO rating alongside XB2's CERO rating

 

[Omega Tyrant]

Speaking of, is the Imgur leak presumed dead at this point? I mean, so far it technically hasn't been wrong, but this game is giving no sign of a "Heroes vs Villains" vibe, besides Ridley.

It's indisputably dead, Takamaru and Samurai Goroh are assist trophies. It additionally only stated ICs, Snake, and Wolf would come back of the cut veterans.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Let's keep it civil and tone down some of our language and generalizations, please.

 

[Galgatha]

It's indisputably dead, Takamaru and Samurai Goroh are assist trophies.

I actually feel sorry for the people who post these leaks out and everything, only to be proven wrong.

Talk about a reputation hit.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

So Bomberman has different types of bombs. I wonder what this one does.

Also anyone think we'll get other third party assists from series that don't have a playable character?

That’s cool

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I actually feel sorry for the people who post these leaks out and everything, only to be proven wrong.

Talk about a reputation hit.

Imgur leak guy never had anything to leak

 

[Staarih]

Did anyone notice the Japanese Smash blog had a "Today's memory" for Bomberman? Nothing major, but I love these little snippets of history.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

I know I'm a bit late to the Geno discussion but I don't think he would be considered a third party. Or should.

 

[Pakky]

Why do people always forget CERO exists? Sakurai expressed frustration with CERO as he needed to tone down Palutena from them. They had to done PALUTENA down because of CERO, the Japanese ESRB. Now look at Smash's CERO rating alongside XB2's CERO rating

Didn't know about them so I looked it up, Xenoblade 2 got a 15+ or C X did as well, while original Bayonetta was D 17+ so if this is accurate I'm not sure what to expect.

 

[ThreeT]

One thing that I've been thinking about is the potential of Echo fighters. In particular Chrom. I know Sakurai said that Chrom would be very similar to Ike if he was playable but is that really true? I don't know too much about Fire Emblem, but does Chrom have fire based attacks like Ike?

 

[Fenriraga]

It's indisputably dead, Takamaru and Samurai Goroh are assist trophies. It additionally only stated ICs, Snake, and Wolf would come back of the cut veterans.

Oh derp, I completely forgot about Takamaru and Goroh. Welp, figured it was too good to be true.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Didn't know about them so I looked it up, Xenoblade 2 got a 15+ or C X did as well, while original Bayonetta was D 17+ so if this is accurate I'm not sure what to expect.

It means you can likely expect her boobs to be toned down and clothes added should she be in the game. The character designer doesn't care, he just wanted to draw big boobs because he literally draws porn and Nintendo hired him knowing this.

 

[Pakky]

It means you can likely expect her boobs to be toned down and clothes added should she be in the game. The character designer doesn't care, he just wanted to draw big boobs because he literally draws porn and Nintendo hired him knowing this. AGAIN. **** that artist's Celica design in Awakening

But whose to say what slides and what doesn't given the nature of the game?

I think you're a little too emotionally charged to talk about this.

If she has big boobs in Smash so what?

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Irene literally how is saying "Celica's Fire Emblem Awakening artwork is bad" too problematic to the point it needed a mod edit? It's universally agreed to be bad

I think you're a little too emotionally charged to talk about this.

If she has big boobs in Smash so what?

Then CERO will give Sakurai an earful and tell him to tone them down or they raise the age rating. Because that's their job. And what they did last time. Rules have been stricter as Smash 4 had black voids under every character with a skirt or dress, Brawl had Peach have panties iirc but unless you hack the camera in game you can't see them, yet that was no longer acceptable

 

[PeridotGX]

Interesting point, since this is subjective. I feel that that's different for every person. It does raise an interesting discussion topic, and kinda goes with what @Lampy's been talking about before...

Is there any one character who would hype you to the point that you don't even care about the rest of the roster? And conversely, is there any one character who would make you so annoyed you'd not buy the game?

I don't think there's a single character that would make me not buy the game. I'm so hyped for Ridley and Squirtle, so I feel like I'd be amenable to any character they added. Sure, there's a bunch of names flung around that make me roll my eyes or grumble, but nobody is a no-buy situation.

But for me, if by some miracle Dovahkiin is in, I would accept even Shrek in the game. I love Skyrim and the Elder Scrolls series, but I'd never even considered him on the roster until all of the third party DLC and Skyrim's Switch port (really bummed I didn't get to vote him on the ballot). I feel like he'd have an awesome moveset, and I'd absolutely love to see the dragonslayer fighting Ridley.

Marx, Kamek, and Decidueye would make me happy with almost anybody. There isn't a character that would make me not buy, but I would be rather disappointed if Dark Matter got in.

 

[Pakky]

Then CERO will give Sakurai an earful and tell him to tone them down or they raise the age rating. Because that's their job. And what they did last time. Rules have been stricter as Smash 4 had black voids under every character with a skirt or dress, Brawl had Peach have panties iirc but unless you hack the camera in game you can't see them, yet that was no longer acceptable

I understand all that and it makes sense but Pyra is just busty, I mean that's kinda it.

She doesn't strip, she not a dominatrix, she doesn't do anything sexual as a part of her character as far as I know, she's just ample.

I mean I don't know what else to say, her outfit isn't even like a body-stocking or something like Tharja's was.

 

[Fenriraga]

I know I'm a bit late to the Geno discussion but I don't think he would be considered a third party. Or should.

Yeah the topic as Geno as a third party is... Weird. Obviously the effort it would take to get him would be on par with that of a third party, but in the end, he IS a Mario character. I'm entirely confident he'll be spouting the Mushroom Icon if he does indeed make it in, and would be sorted with the Mario cast, assuming the CSS goes that route and not the "History in Order of Appearance" route.

 

[**Gilgamesh**]

But even still, Snake was arguably overtaken by Sonic's reveal, and for 4, while cheating, Mewtwo's reveal set the internet on fire due to the realization that it'd be the first Smash game with DLC(To be fair, outside of Megaman and Pac Man, 4's roster was incredibly tame).

I just feel like "It doesn't have to be the next character shown, but WHAT can trump Ridley?"

Legit, all I can think of is Geno, a character that people have wanted since Brawl times, and has a 'chance', I'd say.

Sonic didn't overtake Snake reveal because NO one expected someone lik Snake to be in Smash Bros. of all games. Sonic wasn't surprising to be in a Smash Bros. game considering he fits in way better.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I understand all that and it makes sense but Pyra is just busty, I mean that's kinda it.

Her shorts also squeeze her thighs and **** too.
Then yell at CERO if you think that's too much. I don't understand what's so hard about "They'll need to change the age rating if they don't tone The Thing in Question down because that's how it works for CERO, PEGI and the ESRB". I don't see people whining "THE GREEN BLOOD IN SHADOW THE HEDGEHOG WAS SUPPOSED TO BE RED! WHY DID YOU NEED TO CHANGE IT NOW IT JUST DOESN'T WORK" or anything like that

Sonic didn't overtake Snake reveal because NO one expected someone lik Snake to be in Smash Bros. of all games. Sonic wasn't surprising to be in a Smash Bros. game considering he fits in way better.

Well Sonic was a big deal because, y'know, Mario and Sonic duking it out in a game

 

[Fenriraga]

Sonic didn't overtake Snake reveal because NO one expected someone lik Snake to be in Smash Bros. of all games. Sonic wasn't surprising to be in a Smash Bros. game considering he fits in way better.

In 2007? He was absolutely a surprise. Especially with how late he was announced. More obvious than Snake, sure, but that doesn't mean he wasn't very surprising.

It was really just the timing more than everything. We had a LOT of time to sit on and process Snake's reveal, and Sonic is much more of a household name, so yes, Sonic did overtake Snake a bit, because he was much more fresh on everyone's mind with how close to release he was shown off. (And the announced delay following him).

 

[Will]

I know I'm a bit late to the Geno discussion but I don't think he would be considered a third party. Or should.

He's owned by Square.

 

[Galgatha]

But whose to say what slides and what doesn't given the nature of the game?

I think you're a little too emotionally charged to talk about this.

If she has big boobs in Smash so what?

Well the issue is the rating of the game, and the games intended purpose. It's a family/party brawler with a very competitive side to it. Having large breasts that are 1) intentionally large so they stand out, 2) clothes that are worn are intentionally designed to point the breasts out, is inappropriate given the game and it's intended audience.

EDIT: I know Smash is a fighting game, but it is not geared towards the exact same audience as games like Tekken, Mortal Kombat, or (most notably) Dead or Alive. The way Pyra is made in her source material, an exact copy would work in those games (especailly Dead or Alive) but not in Smash.

 

[Fenriraga]

Man, I still will never get over how Square has developed several Mario games over the years (3 on 3, Sports Mix and Fortune Street) But Geno is never even REFERENCED.

Like yeah, FF and DQ characters are cool and much more relevant and advertise your franchises, but completely ignoring the Lil' action figure that served as the first bond your company really made is just upsetting to me. Same with Mallow and Co, of course.

I understand the logic, but you really couldn't have done at least ONE thing to acknowledge it?

...I mean, that's a start but still not enough. :V

 

[RileyXY1]

Speaking of, is the Imgur leak presumed dead at this point? I mean, so far it technically hasn't been wrong, but this game is giving no sign of a "Heroes vs Villains" vibe, besides Ridley.

It is fake. It said that Takamaru and Samurai Goroh were going to be playable when it was confirmed that they will still be assist trophies.

 

[Zerp]

Interesting point, since this is subjective. I feel that that's different for every person. It does raise an interesting discussion topic, and kinda goes with what @Lampy's been talking about before...

Is there any one character who would hype you to the point that you don't even care about the rest of the roster? And conversely, is there any one character who would make you so annoyed you'd not buy the game?

I don't think there's a single character that would make me not buy the game. I'm so hyped for Ridley and Squirtle, so I feel like I'd be amenable to any character they added. Sure, there's a bunch of names flung around that make me roll my eyes or grumble, but nobody is a no-buy situation.

But for me, if by some miracle Dovahkiin is in, I would accept even Shrek in the game. I love Skyrim and the Elder Scrolls series, but I'd never even considered him on the roster until all of the third party DLC and Skyrim's Switch port (really bummed I didn't get to vote him on the ballot). I feel like he'd have an awesome moveset, and I'd absolutely love to see the dragonslayer fighting Ridley.

Dark Matter would be that one character, and I don't have any character that'd annoy me enough to not buy the game, but Marx getting in before any non-Sakurai Kirby character (+ Bandana Dee) would make me rather upset, if he got in after any of those characters get in I'd/I'll be fine with him, but I'm a bit sick of Kirby Superstar getting everything ever and the rest of the franchise getting minimal content.

 

[Pakky]

Her shorts also squeeze her thighs and **** too.

Okay but If tightness is an issue I mean I trying see where you're coming from on the issue also

just saying.

 

[Ze Diglett]

Geno's kind of a tricky case. He's absolutely third-party in terms of ownership (don't really know why, considering Nintendo was able to hold on to Rare-designed DKC characters like K. Rool and Dixie Kong when they got bought out, but whatever), but in Smash, I kind of doubt he'd be treated that way considering he's from an already represented first-party series. We'll have to wait and see (if he does get in, that is), but that's just my way of looking at things.

 

[New_Dumal]

I think the next character should be a popular one even to the casual public.
Let's take K.Rool and Geno for example, they're big on SmashBoards, GameFaqs, etc.

But my friends want Sora, Rayman, Toad. This character are bigger among the casual/general public and I think inserting someone like K.Rool or Geno next will start a trend of "Who asked for this? ". A friend who plays a lot of Smash, even competitive, was unhyped about Ridley. Revealing Rayman/Sora and then Dixie/K.Rool would be such a great move.

 

[**Gilgamesh**]

Come on now; would you really have expected Snake to eventually be in Smash Bros as compared to Sonic? Sonic was a surprise of course at the time but we all know he fits into Smash Bros way better. It wasn't a "if sonic will be in smash" and more like a "when sonic will be in smash" so it's not surprising that he's in Smash Bros. Being fresh on everyone minds does not correlate to having more hype over a past reveal; that's reaching. I remember people taking interest in Smash Bros. precisely because Snake (not sonic) was in the game. Cloud will still be one the most hype reveals in Smash History due to the nature of his circumstances alongside Ridley. Just watch D1's or people reaction to Snake in Ultimate.

 

[papagenos]

One thing that I've been thinking about is the potential of Echo fighters. In particular Chrom. I know Sakurai said that Chrom would be very similar to Ike if he was playable but is that really true? I don't know too much about Fire Emblem, but does Chrom have fire based attacks like Ike?

Chrom is at the top of my guess list for remaining echo fighters, just seems like all the jokes and teasing last time, even calling him a carbon copy of ike makes him built for it. ike losing his chrom alt colors and we havent seen robins final smash yet... he's in the running still and he had a Mii outfit which i really think is a good sign for a characters chances.

the other one I think is pretty likely is Impa, so that skyward sword gets a "rep" and sheik got a final smash that no longer just fits zelda but is rather sheikah inspired... but im not counting on impa as hard as Chrom cause I think the zelda series got a lot of focus overhauling the characters and adding back in young link, impa could happen but I think shes more likely DLC if we only have a few characters left... half a dozen (6ish) or so if you believe Vergeben, and its still probly close to that number even if you dont.

 

[Pakky]

Well the issue is the rating of the game, and the games intended purpose. It's a family/party brawler with a very competitve side to it. Having large breasts that are 1) intentionally large so they stand out, 2) clothes that are worn are intentionally designed to point the breasts out, is inapporraite given the game and it's intended audience.

Well then costume should be under scrutiny for them same purposes , while she isn't busty the outfit is still there to show off the contours of her shape. As with .

 

[Deleted member]

Irene literally how is saying "Celica's Fire Emblem Awakening artwork is bad" too problematic to the point it needed a mod edit? It's universally agreed to be bad

We get that XC2 is to you what Hyrule Warriors is to me, but don't go on that "I'm always right and you're all wrong" way yeah?

You're better than this.

 

[Taco Cruise]

There is bound to be an abundance of really fake leaks in the coming months, and probably one random truthful one, I wish there was an organized place to see every single one that isn't obscenely ridiculous (goku and shrek type leaks).

Also I'm officially throwing my full support for mach rider, K. Rool, and Metal Mario as my next most wanted 3 - Mach Rider for the cool moveset ideas potentially, K. Rool because he's awesome, and Metal Mario for Smash 64 Nostalgia and the hopes that he comes with his 64 Stage which I always wanted in the game (I love the idea of unlocking him by beating classic mode with the original 12, that would be so awesome as an unlock criteria, and I've always had a soft spot for Metal Mario, despite the unlikeliness due to the metal box item which gives him a less than 1% chance of being in, imo)

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Okay but If tightness is an issue I mean I trying see where you're coming from on the issue also View attachment 149237 just saying.

Bayonetta's clothes aren't shown being skin tight like Pyra's official artwork. If you look at her official artwork, her shorts are more... closed in than her actual legs. Even then other than a cleavage window, neither Bayonetta nor Samus have outfits that put emphasis on their bodies. Believe it or not, there's more that goes into sexualization than just showing skin
A non human character is able to get away with stuff like that, which is why in movies, a character can get killed in a surprisingly gorey fashion like getting blendered by a helicopter, but because it's an alien with blue blood and not a human, it's not as bad for the age rating. Why do you care so much that you're arguing against what ratings do?

 

[papagenos]

Come on now; would you really have expected Snake to eventually be in Smash Bros as compared to Sonic? Sonic was a surprise of course at the time but we all know he fits into Smash Bros way better. It wasn't a "if sonic will be in smash" and more like a "when sonic will be in smash". Being fresh on everyone minds does not correlate to having more hype over a past reveal; that's reaching. I remember people taking interest in Smash Bros. precisely because Snake (not sonic) was in the game. Cloud will still be one the most hype reveals in Smash History due to the nature of his circumstances alongside Ridley. Just watch D1's or people reaction to Snake in Ultimate.

its really strange that snake got in smash cause kojima begged sakurai and then after we had snake in the game everyone assumed sonic MUST be in there too and sakurai went out of his way to make that happen. snake got everyones expectations up really high for third party characters back in the brawl speculation days and the truth is we almost didnt get anyone else, not even sonic. I remember people guessing every character under the sun back then, its incredible we have all the third parties we have now.

 

[Galgatha]

Okay but If tightness is an issue I mean I trying see where you're coming from on the issue also View attachment 149237 just saying.

Well, In regards to Bayo, yes her clothes are tighter, but she doesn't have the exact same...level(?) of assets that Pyra has, plus her clothes cover most of her body. Essentially the same with ZSS besides her one alternate costume, and even then, her assets weren't as large or pronounced as Pyra's. They were more natural/normal in size where as Pyra's...her's are straight out as a teenage boy's dreams. ZSS still, her bikini bra/sports bra still actually covers her up, There is no cleavage to be seen.

She is an assist trophy, and is also a pretty skinny fox(?) humanoid with a clothe flap instead of skin-hugging tight shorts.

Well then costume should be under scrunchy for them sam purposes , while she isn't busty the outfit is still there to show off the contours of her shape. As with .

Question, why does it bother you if, say Rex and Pyran/Mythra got into Smash, that Pyra is toned down? I don't see the necessity for her to be a carbon copy from her source game.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

We get that XC2 is to you what Hyrule Warriors is to me, but don't go on that "I'm always right and you're all wrong" way yeah?

You're better than this.

This isn't comparable. I'm saying the guy's Celica artwork sucks

Alm's artwork is shown off first but that just proves how awfully out of place that artwork is. Saying a piece of official artwork is terrible, which it is due to being nothing like the rest of the game's artwork, isn't comparable to 'Herpes Warriors'

Also I'd like to add the fact Bayonetta's Smash model has added leggings due to a CERO change. As in, they just toned her down until CERO was OK with it. If you think Pyra can't have that happen, you're saying Pyra's sex appeal is more important to her character than her y'know, character

 

[Pakky]

Bayonetta's clothes aren't shown being skin tight

like Pyra's official artwork

I'm sorry had to stop there,what? Its a body suit...

Why do you care so much that you're arguing against what ratings do?

I'm to understand why a C rated character has to be changed when a D rated character received none and there's a bikini clad fox girl running around, human or not that's still a little sexually charged.

Question, why does it bother you if, say Rex and Pyran/Mythra got into Smash, that Pyra is toned down? I don't see the necessity for her to be a carbon copy from her source game.

Because everyone else is... even minus the stripping

 

[BluePikmin11]

I didn't really consider Elma that much until the Sourcegaming video concerning when Smash Switch started development happened which was 2 months ago. Now at this point, I do think she'd have a legitimate chance, particularly since she'd still be pretty recent in 2016 due to the international release date of X being in December 2015 (and we know thanks to Corrin that international release dates matter in terms of recency).

I am not so sure if international releases count, I think Sakurai would factor Japanese releases the most. Corrin was chosen at a time promotional candidates were being considered, and Fates came out in Japan at the right time. Japanese game releases would be the thing Sakurai would consider the most. Industry trends around the time when development begins is a big factor, according to Sakurai, and I feel Sakurai would have seen Elma as an outdated choice due to Xenoblade X being released in Japan on April 2015. Of the interviews I read about Corrin's inclusion, I don't think I have seen Sakurai say anything about international releases being a major factor for his inclusion. :/

 

[TheHumanSonikku]

Speaking of which, while not intending on being attacked or anything, as I can sense this conversation is starting to get...rowdy.

But is the age rating why characters like Shantae are on the "not likely" side?