Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[CodeBlue_]

This is really late for this, but I thought I would share anyway. I added potential newcomers at the end of the list and I'll update it when a new character is revealed or we get more information on certain characters already confirmed.

As for my five, they would be the four in my signature and Peach. I love Peach's float

Spoiler: My Personal Character Ordering that is Trendy atm

S: Very excited to play them and are the mostly likely candidates for a main


A: Fun characters that I will play pretty often
ulticeclimbers:

B: Characters I love as characters, but have things that make them less appealing to me (I wish I loved the Kirby characters in Smash more)


C: Characters I will just play to see how they work or because Im curious about their competitive meta


D: Characters I have little to no interest in:

Some guesses on where potential newcomers would be for me:

King K Rool: B (it's like Dedede, I think I would like him more as a character than a fighter)
Ashley: A/B
Elma: S/A
Rex and Pyra: B (lol Rex is so funny looking)
Decidueye: A/B
Captain Toad: B/C
Paper Mario: C (I have serious doubts about him being super fun as a playable character at this point)
Bandana Dee: A/B
Chorus Kids/Marshall: B (maybe A?)
Mimikyu: C/D
Incineroar: B/C
Lycanroc: A/B
Celica: S/A (Waifu bias)
Marx: D
Skull Kid: B/C
Lip: B
Excite Bike: B/C
Impa (echo or not): B (Sheik getting a fresh coat of paint does wonders)
Dark Samus (echo or not): A
Shadow (not an echo): A
Shadow (echo): B/C
Alph: D
Rayman: ??? (at least B maybe?)
Crash: C
Simon Belmont: S/A

 

[Shroob]

Maybe my own personal feelings, but if we're judging how 'evil' a Smash character is, this is how I'd rank them:

Not bad guys:

Meta-Knight, King DeDeDe, Mewtwo

"Bad" guys:

Bowser, Bowser Jr. Wolf

Actually evil, but not an indiscriminate killer:

Ganondorf

Holy **** what's wrong with you:

Ridley

 

[N3ON]

Lawful Evil
Neutral Evil
Chaotic Evil

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Lawful Evil
Neutral Evil
Chaotic Evil

Baby Evil
Greedy Evil
What's for lunch?

 

[Shroob]

In short, we need more villains.

I'm not sure where K.Rool would fit on that spectrum, but someone like Marx would fit alongside Ridley just fine as a "Completely psychotic antagonist".

 

[YoshiandToad]

How would people react to a Team Rocket character getting in instead of any of the Gen 7 reps?

"Finally a Pokemon rep that's worthwhile. AND a villain? That's excellent."

Playable Meowth alone would make me satisfied with the Pokemon roster for the first time. Although to be fair, if Meowth had been added instead of Jigglypuff way back when I'd have been thrilled by the Pokemon roster since day one.

So just for fun, if each represented franchise were to get one more representative, who would you pick?

Mario: Waluigi
Donkey Kong: King K Rool
Zelda: Skull Kid
Metroid: Dark Samus
Kirby: Bandana Dee
Star Fox: Slippy
Pokemon: Decidueye
F-zero: Samurai Goroh
Earthbound/Mother: Porky
Fire Emblem: Chrom
Kid Icarus: Medusa
Pikmin: Alph (own character)
Animal Crossing: Tom Noom
Punch Out: King Hippo
Xenoblade: Rex
Metal Gear: Gray Fox
Sonic: Tails
Mega Man: Zero
Pac-Man: Mrs. Pac-man
Street Fighter: Blanka
Final Fantasy: Sephiroth
Bayonetta: Rodin
Splatoon: Octolings

I left out a few franchises that didn't really have other characters.

: Captain Toad
: Dixie Kong
: Impa
: Sylux
: Bandana Dee
: Slippy
: Meowth
: Goroh
: Porky
: Kiran(summons other FE characters heh)
: Medusa
: Louie
: Isabelle
: Doc
: Elma
: Ocelot
: Tails
: Roll
: Ms. Pac-Man
: Chun-Li
: Black Mage
: Rodin
: Octoling

 

[Shroob]

I really do hope we get at least two more villains this game though, don't care who they are, I'll take anyone.

Dark Samus and K.Rool? Dark Samus and Marx? K.Rool and whoever, bring 'em here.

We finally have a Smash game where all the antagonists are finally together for once, and we got Ridley on top of that, it'd be a damn shame to not add onto that, kinda like how 4 finally made Smash not such a sausagefest.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

In short, we need more villains.

I'm not sure where K.Rool would fit on that spectrum, but someone like Marx would fit alongside Ridley just fine as a "Completely psychotic antagonist".

I'd put him above Bowser but below Ganondorf, in the first 3 games he's just trying to steal banana's which isn't terrible but in DK64 he's literally trying to blow up DK Island lmao. Bowser may have tried to kidnap peach and take over the kingdom but he's never actively tried to kill anyone at least.

 

[Strider_Bond00J]

In short, we need more villains.

I'm not sure where K.Rool would fit on that spectrum, but someone like Marx would fit alongside Ridley just fine as a "Completely psychotic antagonist".

K. Rool kinda comes off as somewhere between Neutral Evil and Chaotic Evil. He's stolen the banana horde several times either to starve the Kongs or because he liked bananas (or not - aka Flip Flop of God Trope). He's probably at his vilest during the last stages of the Rare Donkey Kong Country games, DKC2 and DK64 though; firing cannonballs pointblank at DK then outright trying to blow up DK Island. But I guess prior to his hiatus, his evilness meter dropped to a bit below Bowser-levels of evil, where he's doing evil because that's probably what he's best at.

 

[Shroob]

I'd put him above Bowser but below Ganondorf, in the first 3 games he's just trying to steal banana's which isn't terrible but in DK64 he's literally trying to blow up DK Island lmao. Bowser may have tried to kidnap peach and take over the kingdom but he's never actively tried to kill anyone at least.

It's really odd, since 64 has K.Rool super out of character compared to literally all of his other appearances.

In the first 3 games he comes off as slightly goofy, but diabolical, and in every game after 64(which aren't many), he's mostly harmless, but 64 makes him an evil mastermind Bond-villain.

 

[Noipoi]

You're all forgetting the most evil villain in smash

 

[Arcanir]

In short, we need more villains.

I'm not sure where K.Rool would fit on that spectrum, but someone like Marx would fit alongside Ridley just fine as a "Completely psychotic antagonist".

Probably with Ganondorf. Unlike Ridley, he doesn't kill out of sadistic pleasure and does it for some sort of gain, but he definitely has a cruel streak as he has no qualms punishing his minions for failure, he beat poor DK when the latter couldn't fight back in DKC2, his plan in DKC is stated to involve him trying to starve the Kongs to death by stealing their bananas, and his plan in DK64 is just blowing up their island period.

Also, I really debate where Wolf should go as a villain. He has helped Fox out, which would put him in a similar position to Bowser. However, he's also helped Andross, who is an egomaniacal overlord bent on galactic domination and destruction, and the latter part is not pretty based on what we see in the games.

 

[Shroob]

Probably with Ganondorf. Unlike Ridley, he doesn't kill out of sadistic pleasure and does it for some sort of gain, but he definitely has a cruel streak as he has no qualms punishing his minions for failure, one plan is stated to involve starving the Kongs to death by stealing their bananas, and another is just blowing up their island period.

Also, I really debate where Wolf should go as a villain. He has helped Fox out, which would put him in a similar position to Bowser. However, he's also helped Andross, who is an egomaniacal overlord bent on galactic domination and destruction, and the latter part is not pretty based on what we see in the games.

Wolf's a mercenary with a code of honor(Assault, kicked out Pigma for being a douche). Wolf's allegiances go wherever the money is, and his best interests.

 

[Slavic]

well

making a matrix of protagonist-antagonist and good-evil seemed like a good idea at the time

I underestimated the protagonist 'half' of the roster. Enter at your own risk,

Spoiler: Mess of a Matrix

Also my knowledge of some of these characters is poor, but I put too much time into this to give up

 

[Dragoncharystary]

is secretly one of the most evil and sadistic villains in Smash. He's been known to abuse animals.

 

[Shroob]

I completely forgot about Dark Pit, granted, can you blame me

 

[Zinith]

Yoshi being Neutral?

 

[Shroob]

Yoshi being Neutral?

First he commited tax fraud.

https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/...screen_cap_was_posted_on_a_discord_and_i_got/

Then he committed murder.

 

[Slavic]

Yoshi being Neutral?

Room got sparce

 

[Zinith]

First he commited tax fraud.

https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/...screen_cap_was_posted_on_a_discord_and_i_got/

Then he committed murder.

I was gonna report you for overused meme, and then I saw the reddit post.

Well done

 

[Sabrewulf238]

First he commited tax fraud.

https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/...screen_cap_was_posted_on_a_discord_and_i_got/

Then he committed murder.

Mario commits murder every time he drops a Yoshi into a pit.

 

[Zinith]

Mario commits murder every time he drops a Yoshi into a pit.

Player choice bub. Mario's not the murderer, YOU are!!!

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

Is this Final Destination?

 

[Shroob]

Is this Final Destination?View attachment 149060View attachment 149061

That is definitely Final Destination.

It looks.....surprisingly apocalyptic.

 

[papagenos]

Is this Final Destination?View attachment 149060View attachment 149061

oooo nice, yeah thats probly the new final destination.

 

[Zeox]

I haven't played Mother 1. Is it good?

eeehhh...
I recommend Earthbound and Mother 3 much more than Mother 1.
Is not a bad game but... it takes so long to level up and you have to farm exp so much, is also very easy to get lost.
I only recommend it for people that are already big fans of Mother.

 

[wildvine47]

Is this Final Destination?View attachment 149060View attachment 149061

...oh my god.

That's not Final Destination.

That's the Ing Hive from Prime 2.

 

[Zeox]

In short, we need more villains.

I'm not sure where K.Rool would fit on that spectrum, but someone like Marx would fit alongside Ridley just fine as a "Completely psychotic antagonist".

Here is your completely psychotic antagonist that already is Ridley's pal because they both worked in the bad guys team in Brawl:

 

[Shroob]

...oh my god.

That's not Final Destination.

That's the Ing Hive from Prime 2.

View attachment 149063
View attachment 149064

Ehhhhhh, I dunno about that.

The etching on the ground looks vastly different.

That, and it's clearly in front of space, with what looks like an event horizon in one scene.

 

[Staarih]

The Smash Blog updated some more:

Today's Item
Black Hole
Pulls fighters and items into its powerful gravity field. If someone throws a Black Hole in your direction, you'd better keep your distance!

Today's Stage
Battlefield
This stage is sporting a redesigned look. With vast natural vistas forming a stunning backdrop behind floating platforms, this stage truly deserves its name!

 

[DYED]

In short, we need more villains.

I'm not sure where K.Rool would fit on that spectrum, but someone like Marx would fit alongside Ridley just fine as a "Completely psychotic antagonist".

Both Marx and Porky from Mother would fit really well, especially the latter since it looks like Sakurai wants to give a little more attention to his franchise in Ultimate.
A psychotic villain terrorized into madness. I really said it many times, but it's such a cool concept!
And the one that said that it's mecha-spider is too big to fit into the game have been completely silenced; if Ridley can be in, Porky can be in the roster, too.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I kind of like K. Rool's personality from the cartoon, where he's clearly a villain trying to take over the island, but still has standards.

 

[Shroob]

Both Marx and Porky from Mother would fit really well, especially the latter since it looks like Sakurai wants to give a little more attention to his franchise in Ultimate.
A psychotic villain terrorized into madness. I really said it many times, but it's such a cool concept!
And the one that said that it's mecha-spider is too big to fit into the game have been completely silenced; if Ridley can be in, Porky can be in the roster, too.

I think there's a clear difference between Porky and Ridley.

Ridley has always been able to be shrunken down, mods have showed this several times over in the past.

I'm not sure just how you would fit all of Porky in as a playable character, considering he exists within a eight-legged spider-mech.


There are many, many questions like how grabbing would work, how he'd be able to BE grabbed, etc.

 

[osby]

The Smash Blog updated some more:

Today's Item
Black Hole
Pulls fighters and items into its powerful gravity field. If someone throws a Black Hole in your direction, you'd better keep your distance!

Today's Stage
Battlefield
This stage is sporting a redesigned look. With vast natural vistas forming a stunning backdrop behind floating platforms, this stage truly deserves its name!

Black Hole looks super fun. It was nice of Palutena to lend hers.

Also why Battlefield looks more and more gorgeus with each game?

 

[DYED]

I think there's an actual difference between Porky and Ridley.

Ridley has always been able to be shrunken down, mods have showed this several times over in the past.

I'm not sure just how you would fit all of Porky in as a playable character, considering he exists within a eight-legged spider-mech.


There are many, many questions like how grabbing would work, how he'd be able to BE grabbed, etc.

Yeah, but also remember that Porky's mecha has been extremely enlarged back in Brawl.
Porky is as tall as Lucas and Ness, which are extremely short characters in Smash. The mecha isn't much bigger: I'd say it reaches Ganondorf in height and Bowser in width, so it would fit.
And if it does not, they can still implement him in his Mother 2 "organic mecha", which is even smaller.

 

[Zeox]

I think there's a clear difference between Porky and Ridley.

Ridley has always been able to be shrunken down, mods have showed this several times over in the past.

I'm not sure just how you would fit all of Porky in as a playable character, considering he exists within a eight-legged spider-mech.


There are many, many questions like how grabbing would work, how he'd be able to BE grabbed, etc.

Porky mecha from earthbound have 6 legs, can grab someone with his front legs, use them for attacks, etc...

 

[BlondeLombax]

So we're talking about King K now? Cool, let me throw my hat (or krown, in this case) into the ring.

If you're worried about his majesty not making the cut due to a lack of relevance, please keep in mind that similar characters have made appearences despite being extremely obscure in the past. The Ice Climbers and Pit stand out in particular, primarily thanks in part to their games being particularly unknown among fans worldwide, and Duck Hunt, despite having a single game without any sequels in the past few generations, made the cut with flying colors.

And besides, part of me thinks that the folks over at SORA have plans laid out for the big guy. I mean, if they didn't, then they wouldn't have given us this dandy set of threads:

Apply his ever-growing popularity, Ridley's inclusion, and the fighter ballot, and King K Rool's chances go from "irrelevant, so unlikely" to "for the sake of the fans." Time will be the ultimate deciding factor in this case, so stay aware.

 

[Shroob]

Porky mecha from earthbound have 6 legs, can grab someone with his front legs, use them for attacks, etc...

I'm just not feeling it, frankly.

Honestly, his design is too bulky.


I feel the best way to implement Porky would to either use a completely original design, or the Porkybots, since both his mechas are just wayyy too clunky and obtuse. Even grabbing his Earthbound mech would look bizarre as hell.

 

[papagenos]

So i found a really "clean" CSS layout for people who are interested in that sort of thing. I guess ignore the character choices (swap captain toad for decidueye or ashley out for chorus kids or whatever you like) cause i'm really more just liking the layout here and want to talk a bit about it.

So if you take the original 12 and use them as the whole top row and order everyone by number of appearance (something i think is likely given its been stressed this time around) you can make a really good 12x6 given about how many characters it looks like we'll get.

now echo fighters have the same "number" as their counter parts and I WAS thinking they'd get a separate spot on the roster because they did in smash4 AND because very briefly during our E3 trailer we saw lucina as a "square" when sakurai hypothetically was talking about how you'd unlock more and more characters (so even though it wasnt the CSS it was lucina in a "box" while talking about adding more characters to the CSS).

However if you remove all echos from the CSS (as in they'd share a spot with their counter part somehow, the way they share a number) and then add the "random" button right after bayonetta and before the newcomers for smash ultimate it does something kind of cool...

it ends up making Miis fall on one side and "random" fall on the other if you stagger the bottom row. i was really bothered when i was numbering everyone and Mii's were just sort of falling in a random spot in the middle of the roster layout. now if the bottom row has ten spots it staggers perfectly with the Mii's and "random" boxes and then if you add one more echo fighter (daisy and someone else) that means its 12 newcomers total, again a number that was stressed often during this E3, this was the first time we really heard the original 12 be acknowledged as such.

so no huge break through obviously anything can happen and past smash games and DLC seem to tell us that a clean CSS is an after thought at best with smash but I do like that the Mii's fall into place this way and the bottom row is ALL the newcomers and there'd be 12 of them. i'm aware this is likely absolutely nothing but i do enjoy a good CSS layout.

 

[Shroob]

View attachment 149068

So i found a really "clean" CSS layout for people who are interested in that sort of thing. I guess ignore the character choices (swap captain toad for decidueye or ashley out for chorus kids or whatever you like) cause i'm really more just liking the layout here and want to talk a bit about it.

So if you take the original 12 and use them as the whole top row and order everyone by number of appearance (something i think is likely given its been stressed this time around) you can make a really good 12x6 given about how many characters it looks like we'll get.

now echo fighters have the same "number" as their counter parts and I WAS thinking they'd get a separate spot on the roster because they did in smash4 AND because very briefly during our E3 trailer we saw lucina as a "square" when sakurai hypothetically was talking about how you'd unlock more and more characters (so even though it wasnt the CSS it was lucina in a "box" while talking about adding more characters to the CSS).

However if you remove all echos from the CSS (as in they'd share a spot with their counter part somehow, the way they share a number) and then add the "random" button right after bayonetta and before the newcomers for smash ultimate it does something kind of cool...

it ends up making Miis fall on one side and "random" fall on the other if you stagger the bottom row. i was really bothered when i was numbering everyone and Mii's were just sort of falling in a random spot in the middle of the roster layout. now if the bottom row has ten spots it staggers perfectly with the Mii's and "random" boxes and then if you add one more echo fighter (daisy and someone else) that means its 12 newcomers total, again a number that was stressed often during this E3, this was the first time we really heard the original 12 be acknowledged as such.

so no huge break through obviously anything can happen and past smash games and DLC seem to tell us that a clean CSS is an after thought at best with smash but I do like that the Mii's fall into place this way and the bottom row is ALL the newcomers and there'd be 12 of them. i'm aware this is likely absolutely nothing but i do enjoy a good CSS layout.

As nice as it looks, it's pretty much confirmed that Echoes will get their own spot on the roster, so regardless of how aesthetically pleasing it is, they definitely need to go into their respective spots.