Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[?????????????]

Like a gimmick involving timed attacks like in Super Mario RPG?

That'd definitely be a part of it, yeah. Although Paper Mario could incorporate that as well with "Action Commands;" that'd be pretty cool.

More than that, though, I just mean base moveset. When I think of Captain Toad, I think "regular Toad moves," like kicks and headbutts, along with things like pickaxe, double cherry, and other power-ups.

When I think of Paper Mario, I think of hammer fighting style, paper moves, partners, and maybe even "objects." All-in-all, it's really appealing to me.

When I think of Geno...I think of finger bullets, rocket hands, elbow bomb launchers, machine gun arms, transforming into a cannon, magical lasers, Geno Whirl... it just feels like the whole thing builds itself into something really fun and unique!

...Not to say Captain Toad and Paper Mario don't, but Geno just pops out to me for some reason.

 

[dezeray112]

But no, I don't think we'll get another ballot so soon. This current one can still be mined for a while before a new one is needed.

I really wished I could change my choice for the ballot, but at least my choice did end up being a part of Shulk's Final Smash.

 

[Guh-Huzzah!]

They had to make room for ZSS's massive buff

oH gOsH

 

[osby]

Let us be real, if Sakurai was not incompetent, we would have had Ridley back in Brawl, or if not that early, definitely in Smash 4. Metroid is one of Nintendo's most prominent franchises and Ridley is literally the only character that makes sense. It would be a no-brainer if the "too big" culture never started.

So Sakurai is so incompetent that... we got Ridley?
*sigh*
I knew it was impossible to satisfy fans but this is a bit much.

 

[Morbi]

I'd honestly rather have shadow, the lack of chaos abilities would be lame but I think popularity wise and how different he is from sonic in visuals and personality would make him the better choice.

I prefer Shadow as a whole; however, because I hate Sonic's play-style, it would suck if they turned my little edgehog into that monstrosity. So, I am against that, personally. Metal Sonic fits way better.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

is this toggle on and off for hazards real?

Yup. Lemme get you the Tweet...

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Smooth Criminal

 

[MopedOfJustice]

There are two reasons. It is actually practically the same reason, but whatever. Skull Kid is first-party. No legal mumbo jumbo regardless of the good terms Nintendo seems to be on with Square. Furthermore, as he is first-party, more people played Majora's Mask than some jank RPG from a forgotten era. Lul. That makes him much more compelling to your average player that is like, "what is a Geno? Sounds dangerous."

I'm well aware, that's why I quoted and asked about the moveset part of the claim. I agree that Skull Kid makes more sense from a meta standpoint, but in terms of actually making a character that functions in the game, I don't see what makes him more viable than the average character.

 

[StrangeMann]

Yup. Lemme get you the Tweet...

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Smooth Criminal

What happens if there’s 60+ legal stages?

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

That'd definitely be a part of it, yeah. Although Paper Mario could incorporate that as well with "Action Commands;" that'd be pretty cool.

More than that, though, I just mean base moveset. When I think of Captain Toad, I think "regular Toad moves," like kicks and headbutts, along with things like pickaxe, double cherry, and other power-ups.

When I think of Paper Mario, I think of hammer fighting style, paper moves, partners, and maybe even "objects." All-in-all, it's really appealing to me.

When I think of Geno...I think of finger bullets, rocket hands, elbow bomb launchers, machine gun arms, transforming into a cannon, magical lasers, Geno Whirl... it just feels like the whole thing builds itself into something really fun and unique!

...Not to say Captain Toad and Paper Mario don't, but Geno just pops out to me for some reason.

Not gonna lie, never thought much of Geno in the past.

Then I tried that Legacy XP mod and I was like "HOLY ****, THIS IS AWESOME!"

Geno has the possibility of having a truly genuine and unique moveset. The timed attacked can be used on Paper Mario for the sake of relevenace, that's true. And hammers are kind of an underutilized weapons when compared to swords, but... a living doll that can smack you down with all sorts of robot-like stuff? That's just really damn hype.

Plus, if Ridley is anything to go by, the Internet seems to have weight in the decisions now, so it's just a matter of which fanbase is the loudest.

 

[Guh-Huzzah!]

What happens if there’s 60+ legal stages?

That'd Be Intense

 

[N3ON]

They had to make room for ZSS's massive buff

If you scroll up to her chest you'll see some much-needed nerfs.

Spoiler

Take that, Namco.

 

[Murlough]

I don't know how people can hate on Sakurai after this game. He literally tried to please EVERYONE with this game. How many developers bend over backwards for their fans over and over again?

That man deserves respect.

The no hazards option is actually a godsend.Further proof that Sakurai cares.

 

[Morbi]

So Sakurai is so incompetent that... we got Ridley?
*sigh*
I knew it was impossible to satisfy fans but this is a bit much.

Perhaps reading is not your forte ; however, I stated "was" as in past tense. He literally asserts that he was unable to program Ridley without making him overpowered or slow, something that MODDERS were able to accomplish with relative ease. He himself basically admits that he is inept, that is not even me saying it. He was the one who could not figure it out.

Beyond that, I am easily satisfied. Young Link and Daisy were more than enough to impress me, Ridley was just expected af and therefore it is hard to be excited about him and I believe most everyone knows that regardless. Everyone was always alluding to how shocking it would be, but no one is shocked. It has the same shock value as when they added ****ing Wario to the game. What? One of the most iconic Nintendo characters in a game about iconic Nintendo characters? I am shocked, so utterly shocked.

He does not need to satisfy me and if he did, well, mission accomplished. But that does not mean I have to act like this was some kind of technical marvel. Albeit, he looks the best in the game. So, well, clearly he was projecting his insecurities on Ridley and overworked him which is great. We deserve that after years of nonsense.

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

i don't know if people are doing top 5 likely newcomers or most wanted...so I'm going with the 5 Newcomers I am predicting:
Mimikyu
Bandana Dee
King K. Rool
Simon (or if Vergeben is wrong, another 3rd Party)
Ray Man

This is all the newcomers I am predicting, bringing the total newcomers to 7.

Then for echo fighters, I'm not necessarily predicting all of these but I think these are the most likely
Dixie Kong (I know I know, but with Diddy losing tail attacks it seems more likely)
Impa (Most likely imo)
Isabelle (Sad but yeah)
Alph (#petty)
Ms. Pac-Man (Bandai involvement)

The only thing I'm unsure about...is the whole Mech thing. I was never convinced it HAD to be for a character, but it is weird. I could see Xenoblade being shipped out on as X wasn't super huge and this does seem to be a Smash love letter opposed to trying to represent new games and current games. So maybe Elma, maybe not.

 

[Arcadenik]

That is fantastic news!

thought itd just be final destination and battlefield versions of stages and i was already happy with just adding battlefield to all of em.

Wait... what about Big Battlefield? Do all of them have Big Battlefield versions too?

 

[Smooth Criminal]

Roster stuff/speculah/raw talk of mechanics aside for a second, but like...can we talk about all of the quality of life changes they're making to the game? Stuff like this

There was a problem fetching the tweet

just blows my freaking mind. Plus all the UI changes, the indicators, etc... It's so cool to see this level of polish after all this time.

Edit:

StrangeMann I dunno how the competitive community is gonna handle that, but like

...variety is the spice of life, or summat, lol

Smooth Criminal

 

[Morbi]

If you scroll up to her chest you'll see some much-needed nerfs.

Spoiler

Take that, Namco.

I am less concerned about the "nerfs" and more concerned with what they did to her face. I know Ridley usually scrapes her face on various metal objects, but this is a little too far.

 

[blackghost]

the stage discussion will be interesting on the competitive side. i dont want to open that now as i dont have much faith in the community with that. i just want to enjoy the new game.

 

[meowth_thats_wrong]

One thing to note about potential Pokemon newcomers is that, with the return of Pokemon Trainer, the argument of "type representation" is much less compelling for Decidueye. Decidueye no longer fulfills the proposed "Grass starter quota" since Pokemon Trainer already represents the Fire/Water/Grass trio, meaning that a lot more Alola Pokemon are fair game. Pokemon like Primarina and Tapu Koko still might be iffy because we already have two Water starters and two Electric types, but I think that others, like Incineroar, are just as likely as Decidueye.

I'd personally love an "Alola Pokemon Trainer" Echo Fighter that plays with the Alola starters (Rowlet, Brionne, Incineroar?). Or another Pokemon Trainer Echo that utilizes a non-starter trio (Elite 4 leader Cynthia?).

 

[A Distant Demon]

What happens if there’s 60+ legal stages?

They'll probably just stick with the 10-15 best stages. Imagine having to strike out 30 stages per match lol

 

[monadoboy]

https://youtu.be/rpdh9wIGj58?list=PLcMdMmtHkPpQox9E15lFjjOqhFLLG2yvI&t=343

Haven't seen this anywhere, but Ghirahim's an Assist again.
Edit: Krystal can be seen summoned if anyone had any doubts.

 

[Deathcarter]

Yeah, but last time, it was going nuts negatively. People HATED Dark Pit here and complained about Lucina and Dr mario all the time.

Now people are actively wanting direct clones. Go figure

The difference between Ultimate and previous games is:

-Nintendo being upfront about it instead of trying to surprise us with them like they did with Dark Pit in Smash 4.
-They're not conflating Echo fighters with standard clones.
-They introduced a huge casual favorite as an echo fighter which helps justify the concept.

 

[Guh-Huzzah!]

https://twitter.com/netflix/status/1006970355720716288

 

[Deleted member]

Man, I wanna believe that the missing assist trophies mean that certain characters have a shot, but this game still has 6 months to go before release, and both Sakurai and Bill said said they weren't going to show off everything at E3. There's always a chance they'll show more assists as the game's pre-release goes on, so while I'm keeping an eye on the current situation of characters like Tingle and Skull Kid, I'm not gonna get my hopes up TOO high, especially as the most I'm expecting is maybe 2 or 3 newcomers in the base game with the bulk coming from DLC next year.

The amazing thing is that the DLC is gonna be entirely all newcomers, so that will definitely be exciting when the time for speculating that stuff comes.

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

Beyond that, I am easily satisfied. Young Link and Daisy were more than enough to impress me, Ridley was just expected af and therefore it is hard to be excited about him and I believe most everyone knows that regardless. Everyone was always alluding to how shocking it would be, but no one is shocked. It has the same shock value as when they added ****ing Wario to the game. What? One of the most iconic Nintendo characters in a game about iconic Nintendo characters? I am shocked, so utterly shocked.

*Raise Hand* I was shocked. Maybe more excited, because of the rumors, but I wasnt like oh it's Ridley lol.

I get your point. Just wanted to say I think more people were shocked/excited then you allude to. I think all of us who we're even following the rumors still had a fear that they were wrong.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Skull Kid is by no means a bad character for designing a moveset, but what makes you go that far? Sure, you could give him 4 specials and figure out something or other for standard attacks, but I don't see why he'd be considered especially compelling ,especially next to Geno, who certainly is.

I personally feel Skull Kid's trickster characterization and the powers he wields when wearing the Majora's Mask and utilizing the Ocarina for dark powers provides enough interesting material for Sakurai to implement him as a character. Skull Kid is completely unlike any other character currently in Smash Bros Ultimate. Even as someone that only played a bit of Majora's Mask on the Virtual Console, I could easily see his distinct characteristics and the move-set potential he provides. A mischievous character with dark powers from a distinct race of Zelda creatures is just as distinct as a puppet with star powers and god-like abilities IMO.

 

[Guh-Huzzah!]

 

[StrangeMann]

They'll probably just stick with the 10-15 best stages. Imagine having to strike out 30 stages per match lol

Alright, name some starters and counter picks stages ideas for hazardless stages?

 

[Morbi]

The difference between Ultimate and previous games is:

-Nintendo being upfront about it instead of trying to surprise us with them like they did with Dark Pit in Smash 4.
-They're not conflating Echo fighters with standard clones.
-They introduced a huge casual favorite as an echo fighter which helps justify the concept.

Not really. Clones have always been a part of Smash and after the Lucina reveal, he was pretty upfront about more coming and Dark Pit was hardly a surprise as he was in plenty of marketing materials.

Why does that matter?

Plenty of clones have been casual favorites, that never really justified the concept. If anything, characters such as Wolf were literally attacked for being slightly similar.

Let us be real, there was merely a perspective shift. Nothing changed overnight. They just arbitrarily attributed certain clones as echo characters and people ceased with the faux outrage. Simple as that.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

the stage discussion will be interesting on the competitive side. i dont want to open that now as i dont have much faith in the community with that. i just want to enjoy the new game.

I'm 200% with you on that one. My faith in the arbitration of rulesets is pretty shot thanks to the numerous debacles that cropped up during Smash 4's lifecycle (which, in retrospect, made all of the issues experienced in prior games about that stuff pale in comparison, good Lord). Tbh, my approach to the game even when a competitive side opens up is to just not dive too hard into all the damn politicking and arguing and just play the ****ing game. I'm getting old, and I'd like to go out with a bang while having a great time doing what I love most.

Smooth Criminal

 

[PeridotGX]

What happens if there’s 60+ legal stages?

Maybe each person selects 2 stages + Battlefeild, and then strike from there.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

They'll probably just stick with the 10-15 best stages. Imagine having to strike out 30 stages per match lol

Probably just 5 neutral and every other legal stage being a counterpick, even if they're potentially neutral. Just so there's not an overload.

 

[MopedOfJustice]

Albeit, he looks the best in the game. So, well, clearly he was projecting his insecurities on Ridley and overworked him which is great. We deserve that after years of nonsense.

[emphasis added]
Metroid is far from one of Nintendo's most prominent series. Up until it got a release on a dying handheld recently, it's been less prominent than any series in Smash that has multiple reps and several series that only have one.

 

[Morbi]

*Raise Hand* I was shocked. Maybe more excited, because of the rumors, but I wasnt like oh it's Ridley lol.

I get your point. Just wanted to say I think more people were shocked/excited then you allude to. I think all of us who we're even following the rumors still had a fear that they were wrong.

Okay, here is the deal, people were only shocked because they were conditioned to be surprised with non-appearance after non-appearance and interview after interview with more and more people crying "too big." It became the norm to not expect one of the most obvious characters in the world. Same as King K. Rool. Nobody really expects him despite the fact that he is the only character not already confirmed with a different role, with any relevant degree of star power not released within the past 2-3 years.

He gets revealed and people will be shocked when in reality, the only shocking thing is that we have not already been playing him.

 

[MopedOfJustice]

I personally feel Skull Kid's trickster characterization and the powers he wields when wearing the Majora's Mask and utilizing the Ocarina for dark powers provides enough interesting material for Sakurai to implement him as a character. Skull Kid is completely unlike any other character currently in Smash Bros Ultimate. Even as someone that only played a bit of Majora's Mask on the Virtual Console, I could easily see his distinct characteristics and the move-set potential he provides. A mischievous character with dark powers from a distinct race of Zelda creatures is just as distinct as a puppet with star powers and god-like abilities IMO.

I'm not saying you're wrong by any means, but you're being very vague. What would make his standard moveset noteworthy?

 

[Deleted member]

So, after the reveals, here's what my wishlist looks like: (Strike = disconfirmed character, Bold = confirmed character)

Waluigi
King K. Rool
Ridley
Bandana Dee
Wolf
Decidueye
Ice Climbers
Takamaru
Isaac
Snake
Crash Bandicoot
Rayman
Shovel Knight

Which means the remaining characters on my list that still have a chance/aren't already in are King K. Rool, Bandana Dee, Decidueye (I would sell my soul to make this happen), Isaac, Crash, Rayman, and Shovel Knight.
I have low expectations, but I my gut tells me that out of this list, King K. Rool is the most likely character to be added.

 

[Morbi]

[emphasis added]
Metroid is far from one of Nintendo's most prominent series. Up until it got a release on a dying handheld recently, it's been less prominent than any series in Smash that has multiple reps and several series that only have one.

Okay, it is, what, behind Mario, Legend of Zelda, Pokemon and... I guess the other big ones are Animal Crossing (lmfao) and recently Fire Emblem. Maybe Donkey Kong? Probably.

That still puts it above, well, literally everything else. Metroid Prime 4 was probably one of the biggest draws to non-Nintendo gamers and it did not even show up at e3. Kind of a joke. But either way, it was noteworthy enough that Sakurai HAD to have another character for it and the character he chose. Drum roll please, Samus. Ha ha ha... The way people act like this is even vaguely normal is the funniest aspect of any of this.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

So, after the reveals, here's what my wishlist looks like: (Strike = disconfirmed character, Bold = confirmed character)

Waluigi
King K. Rool
Ridley
Bandana Dee
Wolf
Decidueye
Ice Climbers
Takamaru
Isaac
Crash Bandicoot
Rayman
Shovel Knight

Which means the remaining characters on my list that still have a chance/aren't already in are King K. Rool, Bandana Dee, Decidueye (I would sell my soul to make this happen), Isaac, Crash, Rayman, and Shovel Knight.
I have low expectations, but I my gut tells me that out of this list, King K. Rool is the most likely character to be added.

Getting 3 characters from your list, although 2 are veterans, is much better than most people can say. So congrats on that.

 

[BluePikmin11]

I'm not saying you're wrong by any means, but you're being very vague. What would make his standard move-set noteworthy?

Do you want a special move move-set or a play-style?

 

[Deleted member]

Getting 3 characters from your list, although 2 are veterans, is much better than most people can say. So congrats on that.

Four. I forgot about Snake, dammit.
And it didn't come without a price. Just ask poor Waluigi and Takamaru.