Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Iridium]

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According to Alpharad, Pikachu is broken (also has down air as a spike now). Will we see a possible top tier Pikachu?

 

[UltimateWario]

Yup. Lemme get you the Tweet...

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Smooth Criminal

This is gonna be big. Tighten up that balance Sakurai, we’re counting on you.

 

[StrangeMann]

So, after the reveals, here's what my wishlist looks like: (Strike = disconfirmed character, Bold = confirmed character)

Waluigi
King K. Rool
Ridley
Bandana Dee
Wolf
Decidueye
Ice Climbers
Takamaru
Isaac
Snake
Crash Bandicoot
Rayman
Shovel Knight

Which means the remaining characters on my list that still have a chance/aren't already in are King K. Rool, Bandana Dee, Decidueye (I would sell my soul to make this happen), Isaac, Crash, Rayman, and Shovel Knight.
I have low expectations, but I my gut tells me that out of this list, King K. Rool is the most likely character to be added.

I think you’ve got pretty good odds on rayman too, best of luck

 

[Nani?]

I think if we're getting another new echo character, it's going to be Armpit. You know, from Kid Icarus?

 

[Morbi]

Four. I forgot about Snake, dammit.
And it didn't come without a price. Just ask poor Waluigi and Takamaru.

Snake was basically the only thing I got wrong and I could care less. I am SO glad I was wrong, and even when I am wrong, I am still right. What's good, Bomberman?

 

[N3ON]

One obvious echo character could be Matthew, based off of Isaac.

Wait.

I might've skipped a step there.

 

[Deleted member]

So, after the reveals, here's what my wishlist looks like: (Strike = disconfirmed character, Bold = confirmed character)

Waluigi
King K. Rool
Ridley
Bandana Dee
Wolf
Decidueye
Ice Climbers
Takamaru
Isaac
Crash Bandicoot
Rayman
Shovel Knight

Which means the remaining characters on my list that still have a chance/aren't already in are King K. Rool, Bandana Dee, Decidueye (I would sell my soul to make this happen), Isaac, Crash, Rayman, and Shovel Knight.
I have low expectations, but I my gut tells me that out of this list, King K. Rool is the most likely character to be added.

Let's see:
Simon Belmont (Vergeben said that he will be announced later, but this screams "Chrom/Chorus Kids" to me)
Waluigi (R.I.P)
K.Rool
Isaac
Balloon Fighter (Villager still has the same recovery)
Dixie Kong
Ganon (Ganondorf now uses his Sword for Smash Attacks and his final Smash his OOT Beast Ganon)
Ridley CONFIRMED
Bandanna Dee
Bomberman (R.I.P)

One confirmed, one heavily rumored, and the others are kinda there.

Really the only one im hopeful for is K.Rool.

 

[Deleted member]

All right, back.
They are showing a lot more Smash Bros. than I expected lol.
Also since Ridley was revealed, I feel like the Smash team could make highly popular characters appear.
So I think King K. Rool is actually more likely.

 

[UltimateWario]

One obvious echo character could be Matthew, based off of Isaac.

Wait.

I might've skipped a step there.

I really wish Golden Sun wasn’t ****ing R.I.P. I love those games. I was heartbroken when PMBR was disbanded and they never finished him.

 

[MopedOfJustice]

Okay, it is, what, behind Mario, Legend of Zelda, Pokemon and... I guess the other big ones are Animal Crossing (lmfao) and recently Fire Emblem. Maybe Donkey Kong? Probably.

Rough estimate by series:
Ahead: [+ inklings]
Behind: [ <- on Nintendo consoles, anyway]

Some of them are debatable, like I think Fox is about even and ROB at least appeared in Mario Kart without even being a proper video game character.

But either way, it was noteworthy enough that Sakurai HAD to have another character for it and the character he chose. Drum roll please, Samus. Ha ha ha... The way people act like this is even vaguely normal is the funniest aspect of any of this.

I really don't understand what this argument is. ZSS was a well-established variant and more prominent than any actual supporting cast in the series. It also is pretty normal, given that we already got Sheik in Melee, to say nothing of Young Link.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

All right, back.
They are showing a lot more Smash Bros. than I expected lol.
Also since Ridley was revealed, I feel like the Smash team could make highly popular characters appear.
So I think King K. Rool is actually more likely.

Seems no items on. So no way to see more Pokeballs/AT's. Welp.

 

[papagenos]

Man, I wanna believe that the missing assist trophies mean that certain characters have a shot, but this game still has 6 months to go before release, and both Sakurai and Bill said said they weren't going to show off everything at E3. There's always a chance they'll show more assists as the game's pre-release goes on, so while I'm keeping an eye on the current situation of characters like Tingle and Skull Kid, I'm not gonna get my hopes up TOO high, especially as the most I'm expecting is maybe 2 or 3 newcomers in the base game with the bulk coming from DLC next year.

The amazing thing is that the DLC is gonna be entirely all newcomers, so that will definitely be exciting when the time for speculating that stuff comes.

Sakurai mentioned 50+ assist trophies i beleive we've seen 28 sooooo I do think people may be over estimating the chances that some assist trophies are now likely playable... i mean it COULD happen to maybe one of them but I just think its more likely say isabelle or tingle are just not in this demo version of the game.

but im not gonna totally discredit that for example isabelle COULD be an echo character, i just think its less likely than im hearing people say. after thinking it over im sorta now banking that echo fighters might be downplayed more than i thought with the rest of our roster, maybe one more two tops. Before I was thinking they wouldnt make up a term for JUST adding daisy but after thinking about it, it also justifies KEEPING dark pit and lucina for the "everyones here" aspect, and Daisy was a HIGHLY requested ballot choice in the west AND japan and she honestly fits best as a clone character but to soften the blow sakurai is up front about it and even numbering the characters and not "counting" the echo fighters. so while before i thought this was opening the flood gate im now more in the camp that we might not get many more at all as keeping lucina/dark pit (for the everyones here appeal) AND adding Daisy the way sakurai feels she should correctly be played as (extremely similar to peach might be justification enough to explain why sakurai added the term at all). it might not be this big new aspect it was just a way to justify how to make those three characters not cause a backlash.

of course again i think one MAYBE two more on the base roster is possible but I'm not counting on it as much as i was initially, and im certainly hearing far more people guess at every POSSIBLE echo character, and many would feel almost forced to be one, where as i think someone like daisy is more of a special case where you almost SHOULD make her a clone. For example shadow COULD be a clone but he'd be missing chaos control and that might not "fit" him well, Dixie COULD be a diddy clone but I think theres tons you can do with her hair and stuff where she should be like pichu/dr mario and not a pure "echo character" of diddy etc... theres a few really good ones like Impa and Ken where I think they fall into the same boat as Daisy and almost logically should be echo characters, but then does impa have the fan requests of daisy? (also the zelda cast seems to have gotten a lot of love and with few newcomer spots left im not hopeful zelda will get another) Ken also makes a perfect echo character basically being the "original" echo character but should we add a third capcom rep just cause he fits the echo character criteria? i feel like third party spots should be reserved for highly deserving guests of honor and not just cause some good clones exist (ms pacman/shadow fit here too).

So i think echo fighters could happen but after thinking it over i dont think they are likely a huge part of the game like I was thinking they could be before...i think echo fighters might be a BIG part of DLC though, seems like a good step up from just Mii costumes to pad out the DLC "packs".... but hey im just speculating who knows.

 

[Nani?]

Seems no items on. So no way to see more Pokeballs/AT's. Welp.

No new assist trophies besides the ones from E3, but as for new Pokeballs, there's Lunala, Alolan Raichu, and Scizor. You probably already knew that, though.

 

[AlphaSSB]

One thing I'm actually excited about is how many unlockable characters there are. One slight disappointment I had with Smash 4 was how large the starting roster was, leading to how few characters were unlockable.

The idea of starting off with the Smash 64 roster and building your way to the complete roster through a streamlines system has me pretty excited. Takes me back to when I first got Melee when I was younger, encountering and unlocking new characters.

I really love what Brawl did the most though, where as you encounter more characters within the campaign, and unlock them after completing their missions. Would be amazing if Smash Ultimate did that.

 

[UltimateWario]

I really don't understand what this argument is. ZSS was a well-established variant and more prominent than any actual supporting cast in the series. It also is pretty normal, given that we already got Sheik in Melee, to say nothing of Young Link.

Er, not really. The Zero Suit had just been introduced in Zero Mission. I’d hardly call Samus showing up in her underwear at the end of each game a variant.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

No new assist trophies besides the ones from E3, but as for new Pokeballs, there's Lunala, Alolan Raichu, and Scizor. You probably already knew that, though.

Only Alolan Raichu, actually.

Please note that in the Graveyard thread, if they're not among the list already. Thank you~

 

[MopedOfJustice]

Do you want a special move move-set or a play-style?

No, I'm already aware that he can use puppets and such for his specials, what I don't get is what he can use for his standard attacks that would set him apart in the way that you claim. I can imagine him doing little kicks that fit in with how he moves, but I don't see what he'd be doing that actually contributes to the game, and that's what I'm requesting that you clarify.
If it makes it easier, consider things like Robin's sword being expended, Shulk's gross disjoint, Megaman's projectiles, Olimar having move properties changed by the Pikmin he's using, etc.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

My wishlist was:
- Elma
- Dixie Kong
- Impa
- Ridley
- Wolf
- Krystal
- Fiora
- Bandana Dee
- Lara Croft
- Rayman
- Isabelle
- Paper Mario
- Decidueye

Most of mine are safe right now but I don't have hope for many of these guys right now tbh. Krystal and Fiora may be deconfirmed but Krystal being an assist is more than I thought she'd get and at least Fiora has a role (even though an assist trophy would be better, please pull a riki and do it sakurai)

 

[SquashiniKun]

I wonder if we'll get any newcomers during the nintendo treehouse?

 

[Nani?]

Only Alolan Raichu, actually.

Please note that in the Graveyard thread, if they're not among the list already. Thank you~

Where is that? (I know I sound like an idiot. xD)

Also, I found this, and my cuteness meter is overloaded. https://media2.giphy.com/media/X9zCsQW8Hqxl6/giphy.gif

 

[Deleted member]

Oh, right.
It's nice to see Scizor as a Pokeball summon, seeing as it's one of my favorite Pokemon. Part of me would've liked him as a playable character, but that ship has sailed long ago and I have higher priorities when it comes to Pokemon at the moment.
Chandelure Pokeball summon would also be pretty cool

 

[DJ3DS]

Can anyone catch me up on whether anything interesting has happened in treehouse today?

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Where is that? (I know I sound like an idiot. xD)

Also, I found this, and my cuteness meter is overloaded. https://media2.giphy.com/media/X9zCsQW8Hqxl6/giphy.gif

https://smashboards.com/threads/the...aracter-thread-smash-ultimate-edition.455110/

Here you go.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

I wonder if we'll get any newcomers during the nintendo treehouse?

It's possible (Wii Fit Trainer was revealed when the expo was open), but I'm not holding out any hopes.

Can anyone catch me up on whether anything interesting has happened in treehouse today?

They showed gameplay of Super Mario Party. It's back to the OG formula so it's good.

Spoiler: Xenoblade Chronicles 2 DLC Spoilers

Shulk and Fiora are blades in Xenoblade Chronicles 2's Challenge Battle DLC.

Other than that not much. They showed gameplay of Hollow Knight, more Smash, and now they're playing Mario Tennis.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

One thing I'm actually excited about is how many unlockable characters there are. One slight disappointment I had with Smash 4 was how large the starting roster was, leading to how few characters were unlockable.

The idea of starting off with the Smash 64 roster and building your way to the complete roster through a streamlines system has me pretty excited. Takes me back to when I first got Melee when I was younger, encountering and unlocking new characters.

I really love what Brawl did the most though, where as you encounter more characters within the campaign, and unlock them after completing their missions. Would be amazing if Smash Ultimate did that.

I hope we have a fair amount of unlockable newcomers too, announcing 5/6 before release and then keeping another 5/6 secret would be dope

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Dunno if people mentioned it but Ivy keeps the Vine Whip Up B

 

[Arcadenik]

Ganon (Ganondorf now uses his Sword for Smash Attacks and his final Smash his OOT Beast Ganon)

Okay but OOT Ganon is not what most people had in mind when they say Ganon for Smash. Most of them had ALTTP Ganon in mind.

This is Ganondorf's new Final Smash.

This Ganon is what most people had in mind.

 

[Nani?]

Can anyone catch me up on whether anything interesting has happened in treehouse today?

Pokemon Trainer's final smash is still Triple Finish. I would get a picture/gif, but I can't.

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

No, I'm already aware that he can use puppets and such for his specials, what I don't get is what he can use for his standard attacks that would set him apart in the way that you claim. I can imagine him doing little kicks that fit in with how he moves, but I don't see what he'd be doing that actually contributes to the game, and that's what I'm requesting that you clarify.
If it makes it easier, consider things like Robin's sword being expended, Shulk's gross disjoint, Megaman's projectiles, Olimar having move properties changed by the Pikmin he's using, etc.

While I would understand this sentiment under Smash 4, Ridley doesn't really have any move gimmicks to him or specific/special properties like you describe. He just fights with what he has. Ridley got in based on popularity and I think that's what blue is getting at for Skull Kid.

Not saying they're right, but I'd say get prepared for less gimmick characters or characters that "need" specific traits to stand out. Seems more like a fan pleasing roster.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Dunno if people mentioned it but Ivy keeps the Vine Whip Up B

This is the first Up B Tether Recovery notable.

They were removed during 4. My guess is the stages are going to be made easier to Tether to.

 

[Zeox]

Sorry if it was already discussed, but is it just me, or is Snake on a new Mother stage? View attachment 148126
The mushroom seems unfamiliar to me.

Nice, it seems Earthbound / Mother has not been forgotten this time, between this, Mr. Saturn in the all fighters image and all the stages returning (specially New Pork) I feel so happy.

 

[N3ON]

I really wish Golden Sun wasn’t ****ing R.I.P. I love those games. I was heartbroken when PMBR was disbanded and they never finished him.

I know, getting the P:M Isaac canceled and his AT removed was basically salt in the wound at that point. He's not from a top-tier franchise, but his games have done well enough not to be totally cut out from everything. I mean two of his three games are million+ sellers.

And while he's been consistently popular since pre-Brawl, which is a feat unto itself, the popularity being steady but never overwhelming keeps him from truly being one of those "added by popular demand" Geno/Ridley types.

 

[Morbi]

Rough estimate by series:
Ahead: [+ inklings]
Behind: [ <- on Nintendo consoles, anyway]

Some of them are debatable, like I think Fox is about even and ROB at least appeared in Mario Kart without even being a proper video game character.


I really don't understand what this argument is. ZSS was a well-established variant and more prominent than any actual supporting cast in the series. It also is pretty normal, given that we already got Sheik in Melee, to say nothing of Young Link.

Rough estimates based on what, sales or something? I was talking about prominence (I understand sales are a part of that, but legacy is even important, especially to Smash Brothers). To that end, Snake would definitely be WAY ahead. As would most third-party characters not counting Bayonetta. I am merely talking about what your average player is going to recognize. That is how I base ALL of my speculation, honestly. Everything else is so contrived and people jump from criteria to criteria to try and make their point. Sakurai obviously throws surprise characters, but he has also obviously tried to cover the bases and up until now, one of those was blatantly omitted. As of current, it is basically just King K. Rool. Outside of newer characters or random Pokemon/Mario/Zelda, there is nothing left. We are at the bottom of the barrel. And if you are one of those people that disagrees, cool. Good for you. But let us just say there is another reason beyond "bringing everyone back" a "monumental task (bring back 5 more characters)" that we are getting less characters this time.

But believe what you want to believe. You can lead a horse to water...

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

One thing I'm actually excited about is how many unlockable characters there are. One slight disappointment I had with Smash 4 was how large the starting roster was, leading to how few characters were unlockable.

The idea of starting off with the Smash 64 roster and building your way to the complete roster through a streamlines system has me pretty excited. Takes me back to when I first got Melee when I was younger, encountering and unlocking new characters.

I really love what Brawl did the most though, where as you encounter more characters within the campaign, and unlock them after completing their missions. Would be amazing if Smash Ultimate did that.

Does everyone think these unlocks will be easy enough to find out ahead of time? For example I'm looking forward to playing as Ridley ASAP but I don't want to have to unlock 50% of the cast first to play him.

It's weird I like the concept and it can be fun, but locking away my most wanted behind who knows what makes me nervous.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

While I would understand this sentiment under Smash 4, Ridley doesn't really have any move gimmicks to him or specific/special properties like you describe. He just fights with what he has. Ridley got in based on popularity and I think that's what blue is getting at for Skull Kid.

Not saying they're right, but I'd say get prepared for less gimmick characters or characters that "need" specific traits to stand out. Seems more like a fan pleasing roster.

Inklings don't seem all that gimmicky either too, they could've played up the ink managing aspect more than they did, hopefully they're moving away from gimmicky type characters with these newcomers

 

[Fenriraga]

Really sucks that Lyn got AT'd again, she was my second most wanted only to Geno.

Ah well. Maybe Opossum can get his Celica now! :V I'd be more than down for Celica.

 

[StrangeMann]

Someone on ResetEra was mentioning the possibility Meta Ridley was an Echo instead of a costume, as it's not on the demo like Alph or Wireframe mac. Any other known alt model changes that we know are in the game that aren't in the demo?

 

[papagenos]

While I would understand this sentiment under Smash 4, Ridley doesn't really have any move gimmicks to him or specific/special properties like you describe. He just fights with what he has. Ridley got in based on popularity and I think that's what blue is getting at for Skull Kid.

Not saying they're right, but I'd say get prepared for less gimmick characters or characters that "need" specific traits to stand out. Seems more like a fan pleasing roster.

yeah this makes me waver on the likelihood of "chorus kids" as thats more of a sakurai choice, i mean they were known about cause of the leak and then requested on the ballot a bit but Im just not sure if giving them a spot this time fits the "for the fans" spirit we have going on.

Guess it just matters how finished they were for smash 4 and if they were cut due to limitations or if their "gimmick" didnt really work.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Rough estimate by series:
Ahead: [+ inklings]
Behind: [ <- on Nintendo consoles, anyway]

Some of them are debatable, like I think Fox is about even and ROB at least appeared in Mario Kart without even being a proper video game character.

Wait, just to be sure, are we talking Metroid here? Because Metroid is for sure a bigger series than Mother, Kid Icarus and Xenoblade, and just based on legacy alone (which is a significant factor) it also trumps the likes of Bayonetta, WarioWare and Pikmin. I'd also say Star Fox and Punch Out are bigger than some of the ones I just mentioned.

Recency isn't everything.

 

[Morbi]

Does everyone think these unlocks will be easy enough to find out ahead of time? For example I'm looking forward to playing as Ridley ASAP but I don't want to have to unlock 50% of the cast first to play him.

It's weird I like the concept and it can be fun, but locking away my most wanted behind who knows what makes me nervous.

There are always leaks ahead of time. The only problem I foresee are the potential "alternative" conditions. But even then, you can set the game to one-stock and SD constantly to grind them up relatively fast.