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Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

Almost one month has passed since release. In retrospect....

  • This is by far the best Smash ever. Like, I don't even know how they will top this.

  • Pretty freakin' good; I have a few qualms over things like internet play, balancing issues, etc.

  • It's ok, but [insert Smash game here] is better.

  • I'd rather play Parcheesi.


Results are only viewable after voting.
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DrRiceBoy

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I really feel like people are exaggerating how "broken" Bayo is in Smash 5. Ridley is a heavy character who also happens to be the now largest character in the game... of course he should be combo'd by a character who was designed to combo! We also have multiple sources claiming that she has been nerfed in several areas. Not to say that improvements shouldn't be made; I'm in agreement that Bayo could be balanced more. The booing and all that felt pretty disrespectful though. I'm not a fan of Bayonetta's character or her games (if anything I actually quite dislike her) but I really do feel like we should be more objective when it comes to her.
 

Idon

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I really feel like people are exaggerating how "broken" Bayo is in Smash 5. Ridley is a heavy character who also happens to be the now largest character in the game... of course he should be combo'd by a character who was designed to combo! We also have multiple sources claiming that she has been nerfed in several areas. Not to say that improvements shouldn't be made; I'm in agreement that Bayo could be balanced more. The booing and all that felt pretty disrespectful though. I'm not a fan of Bayonetta's character or her games (if anything I actually quite dislike her) but I really do feel like we should be more objective when it comes to her.
Bayo dominated the meta for 3 years, every tournament even leading to E3. That hate doesn't go away easily.
And when MKLeo won his last stock off a safe onstage barrage of unavoidable bullets? Welll that's just the hay that broke the camel's back.
 
Last edited:

mario123007

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rex and pyra would warrant their own trailer in a month or so. as would springman i think.
Not to mention with the changes of Pokémon Trainer and Shulk.

Pokémon Trainer can Switch Pokémon even in air.

Shulk can switch to any Monado arts at ease this time.

Combine these mechanics, Rex and Pyra+other rare Blades will definitely work.

And core crystal as a new assist item please...
 

Betatech

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real shame cappy seems to be just an aesthetic for Mario. would've been nice to see him get a new side special or something where he throws the hat around, maybe even use it for recovery by jumping off it.
 

Jetsurge

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real shame cappy seems to be just an aesthetic for Mario. would've been nice to see him get a new side special or something where he throws the hat around, maybe even use it for recovery by jumping off it.
It's probably because of development timing of this and Mario Odyssey. This basically deconfirms Springman and Rex as well.

Who else is ready for the Ultimate Lifeform, Shadow the Hedgehog as an echo clone? I'm 99.99% sure he's in.
 

N3ON

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Who else is ready for the Ultimate Lifeform, Shadow the Hedgehog as an echo clone? I'm 99.99% sure he's in.
You're 99.99% sure he's in because Sonic got a new AT, he hasn't been seen in the first day of footage, and clones got a new name?
 

Jetsurge

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I think we could get King K. Rool, Geno and Isaac. This game is like a love letter to the Smash fanbase.
 

UltimateWario

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You're 99.99% sure he's in because Sonic got a new AT, he hasn't been seen in the first day of footage, and clones got a new name?
Are you implying that Shadow, the best written and most universally popular video game character in existence isn’t playable?

I laugh at you, sir.
 

Fenriraga

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OKAY, SO.

My time with Smash.

Keep a few things in mind here:
-I play competitive, I go to tourneys, but I am absolutely NOT a leading authority on Smash. So take my "opinions" and "analysis" with a grain of salt.
-I only had 3 two minute games in a casual setting. As much as I really wanted to test things out, I didn't really want to ruin the fun of the others playing with me by just going off and doing my own thing to test changes and mechanics. I did my best though.
-The stations used Pro Controllers and that threw me off WAY more than it should have. Like, I couldn't even find the dang grab button somehow. Combine that with Tap Jump and things just went a bit weird for me at times.
-I'll probably end up repeating things much better players with much more time with the game have already shared.

Anyways, getting right into it.

WOOMY!
-Really fun.
-Very Unorthodox, as I'm sure people can already tell. Good thing my two mains are as unorthodox as they come. My first minute of the match was a bit of a struggle, but for the rest of it I did get them down a bit more.
-Their run animation puts them into squid form and essentially riding an ink wave like they would swimming through ink in Splatoon. They were surprisingly a bit slippery when doing this, not like Ice Physics or anything, but it felt a bit buttery running around.
-Roller (Side B) has a surprisingly fast startup. I was caught off guard several times by another Inkling player spamming it.
-Dunno if it's been mentioned yet, but you are slower when walking on the ink the Rollers puts down.
-Splattershot is actually pretty good at stopping approaches. I feel characters with frontal approaches like Sonic are probably going to have a tough time. It's essentially a wall as long as you keep using it.
-Ink is actually pretty plentiful. I only really had to recharge once. I may not have used as much ink as I could have, though.
-Smash Attacks and such don't seem to use up Ink. I think.
-It seems easier to ink someone up at higher percentages, at least with the Splattershot. Makes KOing easier, obviously.
-Air attacks are pretty average
-Woomy has a dedicated taunt and I can and will use it.
-Purple Inkling Girl is the one true color option and this is not debatable.

Barney The Dinosaur!

-I... wasn't really digging him, honestly. Not my playstyle, but even then, Ridley felt kind of... basic. I mean, he's accurate to his source, for sure. But I just personally don't see anything really "WOW" about him.
-Air attacks are really good, as they should be
-His rapid jab is insane, but that seems to be a common theme with rapid jabs this time.
-Meta Ridley (Or is it his Samus Return costume?) from the trailer was not selectable. Could maybe be a sign of more alts to come for other character who don't have them?
-He has no Pogo Stick tail and I was really kind of hoping that would be a thing.
...I really don't have much else to add to him. Again, I just wasn't really feeling him.

Super Fighting Robot!

-Feels as good as ever
-Can still re-pick up Metal Blades and combo with it. Didn't have enough time to test Z Dropping.
-Charge Shot/ Side Smash can be charged, like, REALLY long. It was kinda a blink-and-missed it kind of thing for me, but I think I charged it so long that Mega Man got tired out and stopped doing it, kinda like Luigi's side B. I dunno, I might have been imagining it
-A lot of his attacks feel less laggy, especially his aireals, the startup on Down Smash and most notably leaf shield.
-Up air seems weaker, still good but probably won't be as insane as before
-Dash attack/Top Spin is REALLY weird with the new hit stun, it just kinda drags out a bit too long when it connects.

General things I noticed:
-The game feels different. There is definitely more weight to everything and it feels speedier. Spammed some Smash 3DS in before I went in and all it served to do was throw me off. Smash 4 port this ain't.
-Because I'm a try hard, first thing I tried to do was wavedash. Didn't work. You do get a bit off of it but not enough to be worth it.
-Wave LANDING, however, feels amazing and I'm really glad it's a thing.
-The movement you get off it is very strange, but being able to act out of it with the momentum shift it gives you is going to be fun, I can already tell.
-Footstooling is still here, dunno if it's tech-able but I'm gonna assume its not.
-Abra is a Pokeball Mon now and I hate his guts. He will literally go around and warp players off stage in the blink of an eye. You can recover from it, and it's clever, but it was such a beginners trap, haha.
-There are SO MANY minor animation details in this game that are just so incredible and give everything so much personality
-Great Plateau's tower crumbling doesn't seem to hurt you? I might have just missed that. Either way both of the new stages are pretty chill. I can see Great Plateau being a counterpick if the crumbling indeed doesn't damage people. I don't think Moray Towers' blast zone size, weird as heck platforms and such are gonna fly though, hazards or not.

All in all?
Really, really loving it. Gonna try and get more time in Thursday since press will be mostly gone, hype will have died down, people will be riding shuttles to the airport every hour, and it's the longest day us with the Gamertags have.

If you guys have anything you REALLY want me to check, let me know. If it's character specific I'll try and get around to them, but right now I think my next choices to try out are Zelda and Snake, maybe a bit more Woomy.
 
Last edited:

Jetsurge

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You're 99.99% sure he's in because Sonic got a new AT, he hasn't been seen in the first day of footage, and clones got a new name?
Well I think the new name implies they'll be adding a few of them to this game.
 

Betatech

Smash Apprentice
Joined
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Messages
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It's probably because of development timing of this and Mario Odyssey. This basically deconfirms Springman and Rex as well.
that's most likely the reason yeah given that botw link is a thing and botw was in development long before odyssey
 

N3ON

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Are you implying that Shadow, the best written and most universally popular video game character in existence isn’t playable?

I laugh at you, sir.
HEY

We already got the best written and most universally popular video game character in existence.

Her name is Daisy.
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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Well I think the new name implies they'll be adding a few of them to this game.
That's fair, but that might be a little much to give to Shadow. No 3rd party franchise has ever gotten 2 playable characters. It may still not to this day. It's fair to think he's a possibility, but you should keep your hype in check.

Also, please stop double posting.

OKAY, SO.

My time with Smash.

Keep a few things in mind here:
-I play competitive, I go to tourneys, but I am absolutely NOT a leading authority on Smash. So take my "opinions" and "analysis" with a grain of salt.
-I only had 3 two minute games in a casual setting. As much as I really wanted to test things out, I didn't really want to ruin the fun of the others playing with me by just going off and doing my own thing to test changes and mechanics. I did my best though.
-The stations used Pro Controllers and that threw me off WAY more than it should have. Like, I couldn't even find the dang grab button somehow. Combine that with Tap Jump and things just went a bit weird for me at times.
-I'll probably end up repeating things much better players with much more time with the game have already shared.

Anyways, getting right into it.

WOOMY!
-Really fun.
-Very Unorthodox, as I'm sure people can already tell. Good thing my two mains are as unorthodox as they come. My first minute of the match was a bit of a struggle, but for the rest of it I did get them down a bit more.
-They're run animation puts them into squid form and essentially riding an ink wave like they would swimming through ink in Splatoon. They were surprisingly a bit slippery when doing this, not like Ice Physics or anything, but it felt a bit buttery running around.
-Roller (Side B) has a surprisingly fast startup. I was caught off guard several times by another Inkling player spamming it. Dunno if it's been mentioned yet, but you are slower when walking on the ink the Rollers puts down.
-Splattershot is actually pretty good at stopping approaches. I feel characters with frontal approaches like Sonic are probably going to have a tough time. It's essentially a wall.
-Ink is actually pretty plentiful. I only really had to recharge once. I may not have used as much ink as I could have, though.
-It seems easier to ink someone up at higher percentages, at least with the Splattershot. Makes KOing easier, obviously.
-Air attacks are pretty average
-Woomy has a dedicated taunt and I can and will use it.
-Purple Inkling Girl is the one true color option and this is not debatable.

Barney The Dinosaur!

-I... wasn't really digging him, honestly. Not my playstyle, but even then, Ridley felt kind of... basic. I mean, he's accurate to his source, for sure. But I just personally don't see anything really "WOW" about him.
-Air attacks are really good, as they should be
-His rapid jab is insane, but that seems to be a common theme with rapid jabs this time.
-Meta Ridley (Or is it his Samus Return costume?) from the trailer was not selectable. Could maybe be a sign of more alts to come for other character who don't have them?
-He has no Pogo Stick tail and I was really kind of hoping that would be a thing.
...I really don't have much else to add to him. Again, I just wasn't really feeling him.

Super Fighting Robot!

-Feels as good as ever
-Can still re-pick up Metal Blades and combo with it. Didn't have enough time to test Z Dropping.
-Charge Shot/ Side Smash can be charged, like, REALLY long. It was kinda a blink-and-missed it kind of thing for me, but I think I charged it so long that Mega Man got tired out and stopped doing it, kinda like Luigi's side B. I dunno, I might have been imagining it
-A lot of his attacks feel less laggy, especially his aireals, the startup on Down Smash and most notably leaf shield.
-Up air seems weaker, still good but probably won't be as insane as before
-Dash attack/Top Spin is REALLY weird with the new hit stun, it just kinda drags out a bit too long when it connects.

General things I noticed:
-The game feels different. There is definitely more weight to everything and it feels speedier. Spammed some Smash 3DS in before I went in and all it served to do was throw me off. Smash 4 port this ain't.
-Because I'm a try hard, first thing I tried to do was wavedash. Didn't work. You do get a bit off of it but not enough to be worth it.
-Wave LANDING, however, feels amazing and I'm really glad it's a thing.
-The movement you get off it is very strange, but being able to act out of it with the momentum shift it gives you is going to be fun, I can already tell.
-Footstooling is still here, dunno if it's tech-able but I'm gonna assume its not.
-Abra is a Pokeball Mon now and I hate his guts. He will literally go around and warp players off stage in the blink of an eye. You can recover from it, and it's clever, but it was such a beginners trap, haha.
-There are SO MANY minor animation details in this game that are just so incredible and give everything so much personality
-Great Plateau's tower crumbling doesn't seem to hurt you? I might have just missed that. Either way both of the new stages are pretty chill. I can see Great Plateau being a counterpick if the crumbling indeed doesn't damage people. I don't think Moray Towers' blast zone size, weird as heck platforms and such are gonna fly though, hazards or not.

All in all?
Really, really loving it. Gonna try and get more time in thursday since press will be mostly gone, people will be riding shuttles to the airport every hour, and it's the longest day us with the Gamertag has.

If you guys have anything you REALLY want me to check, let me know. If it's character specific I'll try and get around to them, but right now I think my next choices to try out are Zelda and Snake, maybe a bit more Woomy.
Could you list all the AT's and Pokeballs you saw? If you didn't already from the post. Might help. Also, Wavelanding being in is cool~
 

Venus of the Desert Bloom

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As much as I loved the mass amount of information that smashed us into oblivion (SSBU staff included ), I just can’t help but feel a bit strange about this.

Article 1: With so many cut veterans returning, it feels like a last hurrah. Could this be the end of Smash? Or perhaps for a very long time. Or perhaps this is Sakurai’s last smash? The one smash to rule them all.

Article 2: With so many returning veterans, did development time take away from meaningful potential newcomers?

Article 3: Ridley, Inkling, and begrudgenly Daisy are all fun additions but what if this is all we get with newcomers? Will we see newcomer additions between now and December? Will that amazing roster collage change with each added newcomer? The vagueness is kind of disconcerting.

Article 4: Going Ariticle 1, Smash Ultimate lends gives the connotation that this is the end all be all of Smash games. It is the ultimate version. Of fourse, it could be called Super Smash Bros. Last or Finale. But Ultimate makes me feel a little bittersweet.

Article 5: Fancy it up all you want but the game feels very much like an super hyper enhanced port of Smash 4 with crisper graphics. To me, and perhaps I’ll get flak for it, it makes me think that I’m watching an enhanced version of Smash 4.
 

BlondeLombax

Smash Master
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I've heard on Twitter that Sakurai said not to expect too many newcomers in the new game, thanks in part to bringing everyone back. This raises two questions in my mind, and I want to hear your guys' two cents:
1: Who do you think are the remaining newcomers to be revealed, just in case there's a select few of them in the base game?
2: Should DLC come to pass, how many characters could we get, and who?
 

PhantomShab

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Messages
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Nice to hear that Sakurai got to see just how busted Bayonetta is with his own eyes today. Hopefully that giraffe in makeup get's nerfed into something other than an anti-fun tumor.
 

Jetsurge

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Edit your posts instead of double/triple posting please.
I think Sakurai put Daisy in the game so that Ridley could kill her.

I've heard on Twitter that Sakurai said not to expect too many newcomers in the new game, thanks in part to bringing everyone back. This raises two questions in my mind, and I want to hear your guys' two cents:
1: Who do you think are the remaining newcomers to be revealed, just in case there's a select few of them in the base game?
2: Should DLC come to pass, how many characters could we get, and who?
I think all the newcomers will be heavily requested Smash characters. I think we could get King K. Rool, Geno and Isaac.

So like normal clones, then?
Yeah but more than usual
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
I've heard on Twitter that Sakurai said not to expect too many newcomers in the new game, thanks in part to bringing everyone back. This raises two questions in my mind, and I want to hear your guys' two cents:
1: Who do you think are the remaining newcomers to be revealed, just in case there's a select few of them in the base game?
2: Should DLC come to pass, how many characters could we get, and who?
I think they're gonna try to just hit 70.

I think between now and launch, we'll see like 4 more characters added to the roster. Because of how limited they are in what they can add, I think they'll mostly go for popular picks that are likely to please most people. So K.Rool and Isaac are pretty much a given. At the end of the Direct, in the credits, you could see Camelot get credited, and Isaac is still nowhere to be seen in the game. Him and K.Rool were both very popular picks during the ballots, and K.Rool was even acknowledged to the point of being a Mii Costume. So both of them are safe bets. I think Spring Man might also show up, as something a bit more quirky and exciting. And for some reason, my gut tells me we're gonna see Rayman as well.

So, for base game, I think it'll be:
K.Rool
Isaac
Spring Man
Rayman

Pushing it to 69.

Meaning we'll see two DLC. I think it's a bit of a stretch, but it might be possible we could see Banjo, since he was also popular in the ballots, and Microsoft seems very buddy buddy with Nintendo these days. And the other Simon, perhaps. But it's hard to say, since idk what Japanese fans are into most of all. My brain says Banjo is a logical choice, but my gut tells me this ain't happening. Still, around 70 characters seems like the end result. So, 5-6 more additions, since Ridley is no.65.
 

Shroob

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Been about 4 or so years since I posted last, good to be back in the speculation ring.

So, verdict on the Verg leak? He called most of today's stuff, but at the same time, no new Castlevania should kill the leak outright at the same time, no?
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
As much as I loved the mass amount of information that smashed us into oblivion (SSBU staff included ), I just can’t help but feel a bit strange about this.

Article 1: With so many cut veterans returning, it feels like a last hurrah. Could this be the end of Smash? Or perhaps for a very long time. Or perhaps this is Sakurai’s last smash? The one smash to rule them all.
I've been saying this since forever. They would go one of two ways with this. Make some sort of Deluxe port of 4 that had EVERYTHING in order to satisfy as many people as possible, and then reboot the IP in the next game. Or make a fresh take on Smash with this one, and then we'll see. This game definitely seems like it's trying to please as many people as possible.
Article 2: With so many returning veterans, did development time take away from meaningful potential newcomers?
Yep. This was outright stated by Sakurai during the direct.

Article 3
: Ridley, Inkling, and begrudgenly Daisy are all fun additions but what if this is all we get with newcomers? Will we see newcomer additions between now and December? Will that amazing roster collage change with each added newcomer? The vagueness is kind of disconcerting.
He said we would see newcomers, just not to expect many. Hitting 70 seems sensible.

Article 4
: Going Ariticle 1, Smash Ultimate lends gives the connotation that this is the end all be all of Smash games. It is the ultimate version. Of fourse, it could be called Super Smash Bros. Last or Finale. But Ultimate makes me feel a little bittersweet.
Expect a reboot next iteration. This means a roster slashed down to like 30 characters, all reworked, and new mechanics to try new things with the IP.

Article 5
: Fancy it up all you want but the game feels very much like an super hyper enhanced port of Smash 4 with crisper graphics. To me, and perhaps I’ll get flak for it, it makes me think that I’m watching an enhanced version of Smash 4.
The graphics are actually worse than WiiU actually. It IS very similar to 4. It's certainly building on the foundations of it. There are tweaks, very welcomed ones in fact, and I'm glad the focus is now on more aggressive play. But all these changes are no different from what you'd see from SFII to SFII Turbo for example. It's not a port, but more like an enhancement for sure. A lot of things have been reworked from the ground up, like many models and such, but the core engine is still 4's for sure, just tweaked around some.
 

Drifting

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I'm a lurker most of the time, but is nobody going to acknowledge that Ridley's down special did the insta-kill animation on Link in the trailer? Even without that nonsense it STILL DOES 50% OH MY GOD

EDIT: Also my Brawl main is finally back I'm gonna pass out guys I swear
 
Last edited:

Slavic

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Rool's the obvious choice, he's the biggest, most requested one, especially now that Ridley's in.

Elma seems likely due to XCX's success and the fact that XC2 seems too recent to bump her off priorities.

Rayman feels like a shoe-in thanks to how much Nintendo and Ubisoft interact lately.

I don't genuinely know if we'll see another Pokemon, Zelda, or Mario rep, but they'd likely be Mimikyu now that Decidueye completes no type triangles, Impa, and Captain Toad respectively if they felt they were necessary additions.

Rex and Spring Man feel like obvious DLC characters, as well as any of the Three Houses characters, or any generation 8 Pokemon.

Aside from some Echoes (please Dark Samus, please), I don't know if there's really many other newcomers that we'll likely see before the game's launch. Which is going to be perfectly fine for me while we adjust to all the changes to our favorites.
 

Onua

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I wonder if we'll see Medusa as an echo fighter considering how many leaks said shes in
It would make sense since a lot of people found it weird a character like her would get in and was in so many leaks
 

DaybreakHorizon

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All this newcomer talk made me want to go make a roster prediction.

And I did:
Smash Ultimate.png

This roster assumes that we get 9 new characters not counting the three revealed today. While this may seem very extreme, 4 of them are Echo Fighters, so in reality we're getting 5 new characters with unique movesets and such. For DLC, we assume 10 new characters and 5 Echo Fighters. There are a total of 91 fighters on this roster. That is Super Smash Bros. Infinite level of characters. This is likely a very liberal prediction, but I feel it covers most potential newcomers. Conservative estimates would cut some of the new and Echo Fighters on the base roster and DLC, or move fighters on the main roster to DLC status. This roster also assumes that Sakurai wants this to be the ULTIMATE Smash Brothers game, and the Echo Fighters will be an important aspect of this game. Without further ado, here are my reasons:

BASE GAME
New Fighters
(7 total)
  • Ridley - Already announced.
  • Inklings - Already announced.
  • Lycanroc - Pokémon always has new representation, and I feel like Lycanroc is the most prominent choice, considering his relevancy in the Pokémon series (exclusize Z-move, Ash's ace pokemon a lá Greninja, marketing, popularity poll, etc) and his moveset potential as an earth-bending quadraped. It was a tough choice between Lycanroc and the equally popular Mimikyu (Totem Pokémon in the games, Team Rocket's Alolan Pokémon, popularity poll, marketing - the thing has it's own song), so it's a tossup between the two in my opinion. I feel Lycanroc slighly edges out Mimikyu in overall popularity among fans and the Pokemon company though. Decidueye is out due to the return of Ivysaur. It's niche of being a grass type starter to round out "the trinity" is gone now, and in the face of Lycanroc and Mimikyu Decidueye can't compete.
  • Elma - Sakurai kind of gave this one away by admitting he purchased a robot figure (to model a fighter's moves off of). Said robot figure looks a lot like Elma's Skell in the game. Hmmm. Besides that, Xenoblade Chronicles is Nintendo's up-and-coming JRPG which means promotion, and Xenoblade Chronicles X falls right within the frame of characters considered for the base roster (sorry Rex and Pyra). Sakurai also likes the series personally, so shout "SAKURAI BIAS" all you want. Elma has the potential for a unique moveset as well, making her a solid pick.
  • Isaac - Hear me out on this one. Please. ISAAC AS THE RETRO REP. Thanks to ChronoBound ChronoBound for making me think of this, even though I think Isaac as the retro representative could come earlier than he does. While Isaac isn't as old as other retro representatives, the original Golden Sun released in 2001, or 17 years ago. The distance between Melee, which included the Ice Climbers, and the release date of the Ice Climbers game was 16 years. Granted, the distance between R.O.B.'s release and Brawl was 23 years and the distance between Duck Hunt's release and Smash 4 was 30 years, but a 17 year gap could mean eligibility as the retro representative. Alongside this, moderate fan demand for Isaac, moveset potential, and a lack of other potential retro picks (R.I.P. Takamaru and Sukapon) could give Isaac a good shot at getting in.
  • Simon Belmont - all but confirmed with the Vergeben leak. The fact is that he got things correct that nobody could've guessed outside of Smash Bros. (Jump Force, Konami games for Switch, etc.). His Smash Bros. predictions were correct too, though there is the possibility that he merely guessed those (I think this is unlikely though). Belmont would make amazing sense for a Konami representative, given his historical prominence on Nintendo consoles and the apparently good relationship Nintendo has with Konami now. His main competition, Bomberman, is also disconfirmed, so he has that going for him. He has a bunch of moveset potential given his whip and various side-items from the Castlevania games, and is, you know, practically confirmed by our lord and savior Gematsu Vergeben (/s).
  • Rayman - Honestly, I'd be more surprised if we didn't get Rayman as a playable character in this game. The only way I could believe that is if Rabbids were playable, but I feel they'd be a much better assist trophy (If they're playable, then Rayman is the assist trophy; We will see both in this game). Talks for this have potentially been going since our good friend Artsy Omni stirred the internet up with his fake Rayman leak, and with Nintendo and Ubisoft on good enough terms that Nintendo trusts them with Mario of all things and has Star Fox appearing in Battle for Atlas Ubisoft seems to be on the fast track for a character in Smash Bros., with Rayman being the obvious pick. He's got moveset potential too, but doesn't everyone else have that too?
Echo Fighters (5 total)
  • Daisy (Peach)- Already confirmed.
  • Dixie Kong (Diddy Kong) - Donkey Kong has been long due for a new character. Dixie Kong as an Echo Fighter makes perfect sense from a logical standpoint. She's a character with a large fanbase, is easy to develop using Diddy as a base, and promotes the recent Donkey Kong games alongside giving the series the representation it deserves. I feel like Dixie would have more work put in to her than other Echo fighters (like throwing bubblegum instead of a banana, or whipping her hair as her jab, etc.), but her being an Echo Fighter makes the most sense.
  • Chrom (Ike) - Robin's Final Smash hasn't been shown. Hm. Sakurai also literally said about Chrom, "Chrom would just end up being another plain-old sword-wielder like Marth and Ike. Compared with other characters, he lacks any unique characteristics." This makes him a perfect pick for an Echo Fighter. Lucina is the Echo Fighter for Marth, and Chrom's fighting style aligns better with Ike. The Falchion also glows, so he can harness flames as much as Ike and Roy can. Make him faster, but weaker and easier to KO than Ike, and Chrom gets his chance now. I also imagine that the fan outcry to all the Fire Emblem characters impacted Sakurai, so we're only getting one Fire Emblem newcomer for the base roster this time.
  • Medusa (Palutena) - I'm assuming that Custom moves are completely gone, given how Miis are being worked for online and Palutena's special moves have been changed. It's a shame about those scrapped moves though, unless they could be given to someone else...Medusa is that someone else. They give her Palutena's unused special moves, make her stronger but slower, and call it a day.
  • Dark Samus (Samus) - Samus' Dark Samus costume is oddly absent, and Dark Samus is oddly absent as an assist trophy. Hm. I can't really speak to Dark Samus' capabilities, but I'm sure there's enough to make a fleshed out Echo Fighter. Maybe her moves could have a dark element added to them or something else. With Dark Samus and Ridley, Metroid finally gets the love it deserves.
DLC

Without having to worry about making sure that "Everyone is here," Sakurai and the team can devote their full attention to adding new characters as DLC. Given the amount of DLC other Switch games like Splatoon 2, Arms, Xenoblade Chronicles 2, Breath of the Wild, Mario and Rabbids Kingdom Battle, etc. alongside Sakurai and his team's legendary work ethic I could certainly see a large amount of characters being added as DLC. I think we'll see a lot more third party DLC characters as most prominent first party characters are already in the game.

New Fighters (10 Total)
  • King K. Rool - He's likely going to show up in this game, given willingness to listen to fan demand this time around. K. Rool was likely one of the best performing characters of the Voting Ballot in the West, if not worldwide (reports of K. Rool's overseas popularity say he's either very popular or not popular at all, so I can't draw a conclusion one way or the other). Heck, I'd give him decent chances of getting into the base game. I feel like DLC is a safer option for him though. Either way, his fan demand will likely carry him into this game, whether it be in the base roster or as DLC. His moveset could include his costume changes, playing dead, giant blunderbuss shots, and more. There's a lot to choose from with K. Rool.
  • Rex and Pyra - While they missed the cut for the base roster, they certainly didn't miss the cut for DLC. Given Xenoblade Chronicle 2's continued prevalence (The new most recent DLC got a trailer at E3), Rex and Pyra would be perfect to represent that game, and the Xenoblade Chronicles series in general. Having Shulk, Elma, and Rex and Pyra perfectly represents the diversity of the Xenoblade series in my opinion as the three of them are completely different. Having Rex swap between Pyra and Mythra for two different movesets and attributes could make for an interesting moveset, and that's just one of many potential movesets for them. Again, there's a lot to choose from.
  • Edelgard - The timing of Fire Emblem 16 and the DLC for this game align perfectly with each other. For reference, Smash 4 DLC lasted over an entire year from the release of the game in December 2014 until February 2016 when Bayonetta and Corrin ruined the meta were released. Fire Emblem 16 releases about 4 - 6 months from the release of Smash Ultimate in December 2018. The designs for her character are already finalized though, meaning that development on her could start as soon as DLC begins to be developed. The best part? SHE USES AN AXE. That's right, an Axe wielding Fire Emblem character. Axes aren't represented on the Smash Bros. roster at all, so easily monopolize on that for a moveset. Also, it's good promotion for Fire Emblem 16. Adding characters to Smash to promote an upcoming Nintendo game isn't uncommon, especially for the Fire Emblem series (Roy and Corrin).
  • Spring Man - Again, a character who missed the cut for the base roster, but not for DLC. Arms is an inventive new series from Nintendo, and I can imagine that they would want it promoted in Smash Bros. Spring Man (with Ribbon Girl as an alt) is the obvious pick for a series representative. There's a lot you can do with stretchy arms, especially when there are a lot of different types (shock, shield, etc.).
  • Bandanna Dee - Kirby is likely going to get some sort of newcomer to represent the series. Bandanna Dee rounds out our quartet of heroes in the recent installments of the franchise (from Return to Dreamland onwards), and could capitalize on using his Spear, another unrepresented weapon, for a moveset. Like K. Rool I could see him on the base roster, but he feels like more of a DLC choice to me.
  • Yuri Kozukata - This is an odd pick that I decided to include because of a statement Sakurai made about unused characters in Melee. Specifically, I added Yuri in response to Sakurai considering Ayumi Tachibana from the Famicom Detective Club series, but not being able to come up for a moveset for her. Yuri is the protagonist of Fatal Frame V, which was a Wii U exclusive title. While it's not the the Famicom Detective Club series, it's similar, and Yuri has the potential for a very unique moveset as she wields the Camera Obscura. If anyone can make a camera-wielding Japanese schoolgirl work in Smash Bros, it's Masahiro Sakurai. Given the series' popularity in Japan, it's prominence to Nintendo (Nintendo has published the 4 most recent games in the series), Nintendo's good relationship with Koei Tecmo, the developers of the Fatal Frame series who have also developed Hyrule and Fire Emblem Warriors, and the potential for a very unique moveset I could see Yuri or a representative from the series getting in as a dark horse pick.
  • Monster Hunter - Monster Hunter is the next Capcom series in line for a newcomer in Smash Bros. Given the series' prominence on consoles such as the 3DS, Wii U, and the Switch now, the overall popularity of the series, and how the gameplay of the series could make an interesting transition to Smash Bros I feel that Monster Hunter would make for a fun character to play as. Plus, we'd likely get to fight a Rathalos somehow, which would be a nice cherry on top.
  • Geno - Again, I added him as Sakurai has commented on him in the past and has shown a constant interest in the character. While his fanbase was strongest Pre-Brawl, they're somehow still around (papa bless papagenos papagenos ) and Geno has managed to stay around in the form of a Mii Costume in Smash 4. Going into the negotiating table for Smash Ultimate I imagine that Sakurai asked about Geno again, and having the current relationship he does now with them, they agreed. His moveset speaks for itself really.
  • Sora - Sakurai is still at the negotiating table with Square Enix, and his buddy Tetsuya Normura walks into the room (if he isn't there already). Sakurai asks, "hey can we get Sora in Smash Bros?" and Normura responds "Sora Machine broke." with his blessing. Sora has an interesting process to get into Smash (Normura has to approve, and he and Disney need to ensure that Sora is represented faithfully), but it's completely possible, and given fan demand (Sora likely performed well in the Smash Ballot overall) I would say that he's a likely pick for DLC. Normura and Disney needn't worry about faithful representation because Sakurai lives for that s***. His moveset potential is crazy, and even if KH3 doesn't come out for Switch, Kingdom Hearts has still been an important series to Nintendo, with two mainline games (Chain of Memories and Dream Drop Distance) premiering on Nintendo Consoles. You can still play 358/2 Days and Re:Coded on Nintendo DS only (All Playstation got was movies of them). If KH3 does come to Switch, how cool would it be to announce that and then announce Sora for Smash?
  • Crash Bandicoot - This is the ultimate pipe-dream. If Sakurai really goes for the big deals in this game then I easily imagine Crash would be up there. He's iconic; He was the face of Playstation similar to how Sonic was the face of Sega. With the Crash Trilogy coming to Nintendo Switch the relationship between Activision and Nintendo is pretty good (not that it's ever been bad, Skylanders was huge on Nintendo systems after all). Again, the moveset speaks for itself.
Echo Fighters (5 Total)
The Echo Fighters for DLC are meant to be fan favorites, mainly from third party franchises.
  • Isabelle (Villager) - They have to get you to care about Echo Fighters somehow, so they're going to lock Isabelle behind a paywall (just you watch). Actually, I could see Isabelle being on the base roster due to large fan demand for her. I don't necessarily know how they'd make her different from Villager, but there's a way. Maybe have her be averse to fighting, so she does less damage and looks dismayed when she hits or KOs someone, but make her faster and give her slightly more defense or something like that.
  • Jeanne (Bayonetta) - Both are playable characters in Bayonetta with actual differences. Have her do more damage, but also more knockback (making combos harder to pull off, if not impossible). Make her faster, but she has less defense, and make her Witch Time harder to pull off but more effective.
  • Hilda - Zelda doesn't have a Hilda color palette as one of her costumes. Hm. They're very similar in A Link Between Worlds, making them both easy to get into Smash Bros. Swap Zelda's light element attacks with the dark element, maybe remove or change their sweetspots and boom you've got yourself a character. If we're going for maximum DLC hype then swap her with Chrom or Medusa on the base roster.
  • Ken (Ryu) - Ken is the clone character for Ryu. Like Bayonetta and Jeanne, all the dev team needs to do is mirror their differences from the actual game. Ken is an up close, in your face fighter, and they could alter his moveset to reflect this.
  • Tails (Sonic) - All they have to do is give Sonic more jumps/a different up special. That's it. If they really want to go above and beyond, make Tails faster and lighter. Boom.
In total this is 94 characters, almost on par with Smash Bros. Infinite's 100 characters. I by no means expect any of this come true. I am very satisfied with the current state of Ultimate Smash Bros., but this roster, in my opinion, is truly the Ultimate Smash Bros. game. I hope even a fraction of this comes true.
 
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Shroob

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I wonder if we'll see Medusa as an echo fighter considering how many leaks said shes in
It would make sense since a lot of people found it weird a character like her would get in and was in so many leaks
Kid Icarus having 2 echo characters would be a bit odd, frankly.
 

papagenos

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Maybe I just really dont like Shadow but im hoping we dont see a bunch of 3rd party echo characters... its fine to have echo characters, daisy makes perfect sense to be one, but while you could add ken and shadow and ms pacman I just like the third parties feeling special. they are guests of honor on the roster and i just dont think "shadow" earns a spot the way sonic does.

im hopeful shadow just isnt shown (we have 50+ assist trophies apparently) or they replaced him with knuckles simply cause knuckles is the better choice, especially after sonic mania cementing classic sonic characters as who the fans want (sorry to any modern sonic/shadow fans).

conversely im fine with heavily wanted nintendo characters being echo's, impa for instance, and maybe im just being unreasonably biased but i can just see things getting messy adding every possible echo character just cause you could add them especially when it comes to bloating our third party section of the roster.
 

Blargg888

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Been a long time since I've posted on smashboards to say the least... I basically dropped smash 4 entirely when my side of the customs debate lost.

This is a pretty exciting and pretty interesting reveal all around. I guess it's probably still too early to get the real detail from people at the event, but this game looks like a tuned up/more polished 4 which from my perspective is pretty good. I also really think they've tried to make this game as much as possible a thing you could play competitively "out of the box" with minimal community imposed rules. Consider...

-Customs seem obviously gone (the retooling of Palutena and Mii Fighters is clearly to accommodate this). This I guess was the best solution they had to deal with the reality that a lot of the game's quality content was pretty difficult to integrate logistically.
-Stage select happens before character select and loser's counterpick is now automatic.
-A stage hazards off toggle apparently exists.
-Sudden Death is substantially revamped into an infinitely less stupid tiebreaker.
-Moves do different damage in 1v1s which I suspect is their attempt to allow tighter balance of 1v1 in particular without impacting group play.

Like you could run an entirely viable tournament just randoming game 1 among a huge number of reasonably acceptable stages, defining a set length and stock/time settings, and otherwise going "just do what the game says to do". Being able to have a competitive ruleset that's so simple and clean does a lot to make competitive play more accessible (the more the ruleset resembles game design the less happy everyone is and the fewer people want to join the community). This game could really be a huge opportunity for the competitive community, and I look forward to that.

The particulars of the gameplay seem mostly pretty thoughtful. I think the decay on dodges is actually going to be a major scrub killer; it's mostly weaker players who roll a lot anyway which just got a ton worse, and being able to effectively use dodge moves in general that have variable commitment and invincibility is going to be way, way harder than it used to be to keep yourself out of trouble (kinda like how the harsh staleness of moves in Brawl actually mostly strongly favored more advanced players who fully managed it except even more fundamental here because if affects your frame data). Power shielding coming after you block something instead of before seems like it probably makes it harder to execute but also more practical in more situations to utilize as well. On the other side, they apparently made most aerials have less landing lag and provided a quick input for easy SH aerials which is going to make attacking in a non-suicidal way a lot easier. It's almost like they looked at smash 4 and liked the total accessibility level but thought it was relatively too hard to do offense and too easy to do defense for newer players so they wanted to flip it so offense would be more available to lower level players while you'd have to push yourself harder to have that solid defense. While that doesn't necessarily change how the game plays at a high level when people have mastered all the decay factors and the harder execution stuff and the spacing/movement of the new airdodges, it will almost certainly make competitive style play a lot more appealing at the entry level (entry level competitive 4 is basically just rolling over and over).

I'm not super hot and bothered by the particulars of characters since those details will probably change a lot before release and honestly which characters are in the game or are good/bad isn't really important to the game as a whole anyway (unless you have a broken character I suppose), but I do see some intrigue. My day -177 from only watching video impressions are probably as worthless as they sound, but man, Ridley looks awesome which is a rare first impression for a big in any fighter, and while I think it was probably extremely inaccurate to say Pokemon Trainer players will be able to just pick a main and stick with it, the potential of that character looks extreme in this form. What little we saw of Zelda showed they at least tried to improve her horrible animations on everything that made her useless in every previous smash game which is more encouragement that maybe they have a careful eye on how these games have played out before, but then again, they don't seem to have done Samus a similar favor so I guess we can only ask for so much. It looks like they directly prevent Ice Climbers stupidity by having Nana "celebrate" when Popo does a throw so that's wonderful news for the health of the game (make no mistake, Ice Climbers did more to kill Brawl than Meta Knight). I can swear I saw some kind of meter on Pichu too which makes me wonder if Pichu now has a gimmick and is no longer just designed to be a worse Pikachu. I can't really guess where any of this sort of stuff goes, but what we've seen suggests it will be extremely fun to explore when the game drops!
Okay, honestly, if the Miis lack their variable move sets I'll be a little disappointed. Palutena I can understand, but the whole "create your character" part of the Miis is pretty important. I understand that this would harm the Miis viability in competitive, but I just feel like you can't just discard those things. They're an important part of the Miis' characters.
 

Fenriraga

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As much as I loved the mass amount of information that smashed us into oblivion (SSBU staff included ), I just can’t help but feel a bit strange about this.

Article 1: With so many cut veterans returning, it feels like a last hurrah. Could this be the end of Smash? Or perhaps for a very long time. Or perhaps this is Sakurai’s last smash? The one smash to rule them all.

Article 2: With so many returning veterans, did development time take away from meaningful potential newcomers?

Article 3: Ridley, Inkling, and begrudgenly Daisy are all fun additions but what if this is all we get with newcomers? Will we see newcomer additions between now and December? Will that amazing roster collage change with each added newcomer? The vagueness is kind of disconcerting.

Article 4: Going Ariticle 1, Smash Ultimate lends gives the connotation that this is the end all be all of Smash games. It is the ultimate version. Of fourse, it could be called Super Smash Bros. Last or Finale. But Ultimate makes me feel a little bittersweet.

Article 5: Fancy it up all you want but the game feels very much like an super hyper enhanced port of Smash 4 with crisper graphics. To me, and perhaps I’ll get flak for it, it makes me think that I’m watching an enhanced version of Smash 4.
1- I get that feeling too. If anything, it would just be Sakurai's last Smash. Despite his protests otherwise, I feel like Smash will eventually have to move on without him.

2- He did say in the direct that, with bringing everyone back, that it might take away from the newcomers a bit. How much that entails has yet to be seen.

3- I sincerely doubt that. What else are they going to fill an entire six months full of? I don't think gameplay modes enough are going to be enough to keep it relevant in the public eye.

4- Ultimate does sort of give me that vibe too. But it could also very well mean just what it means. It's the Ultimate Version of Smash. Doesn't mean it's the last. Otherwise, UMVC3 would have INTENTIONALLY been the end of the series sans Infinite.

5- I can tell you as someone who has played, it really isn't. The game in comparison feels most similar to 4, yes, but people said the same thing about Brawl to Melee and I don't recall Smash 4 being a Brawl Port.
New Character Renders, a complete graphical overhaul, new stages, new music, inevitably more characters, new mechanics, new hit stun, characters get launched completely different now, new music, new renders, new modes (eventually) COMPLETE AND TOTAL animation overhauls as they have done with every new entry, more changes than I have ever seen in any Smash transition outside of 64 to Melee (In regards to additions and modifications to characters kits, animations, etc), literally ALL the groundwork set for a new numbered title.

This is SERIOUSLY the exact same thing I've seen claimed when Brawl moved to Smash 4 and when we first caught gameplay of that (It's just a slightly faster Brawl!) and we all know those are VERY different games now. I honest to god think people are just letting themselves be Placeebo'd by the "Less Development Time Than Other Smash Games Even Though At This Point It Actually Has Just As Much Dev Time" effect.
 
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