Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Crap-Zapper]

Black Shadow ... Echo Fighter ... Ganondorf's already new moves ... Hmm, could it be time?

 

[Capybara Gaming]

So.... this has been bugging me all day. On Snake's page, one screenshot that seems to be set in Gaur Plain showcases a certain enemy from EarthBound - the Ramblin' Evil Mushroom. But, maybe this isn't Gaur Plain. Maybe - Smash Run is back.

 

[Captain Shwampy]

Seems like people have a real issue telling the difference between Echo Fighters and clones.

As much id love too see shadow as a echo fighter, hes super different from sonic terms run cylce and attacks and such

A shadow without chaos control would be a misunderstanding to the character completely

 

[Dragoncharystary]

I think I found something new.

View attachment 148054

That mushroom enemy is from Earthbound and from the look of the background, either Smash Run is confirmed or Saturn Valley is a new stage.

We have confirmation that every single Earthbound stage in Smash history is returning (Onett, Fourside, New Pork City, and Magicant) so my guess is Smash Run on this.

 

[Darkraid]

Mmm so i was looking at the logo for smash, the chinese logo translates to 'Super Smash bros: Special Edition'.

Mmm does this mean that this game is actually Smash 4.5?

 

[NeonBurrito]

I wonder why they took out Snake's FOX logo

It was used in the older Kojima Productions logo, when he was still under Konami.

Considering:

1. Konami and Kojima's recent relationship issues
2. Snake's Brawl inclusion was a request from Kojima to Sakurai, his inclusion in Ultimate was likely from Sakurai to Konami
3. The Metal Gear Solid '!' is a lot more iconic

It makes sense.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I wonder why they took out Snake's FOX logo

That's Kojima's logo.

 

[Captain Shwampy]

It was used in the older Kojima Productions logo, when he was still under Konami.

Considering:

1. Konami and Kojima's recent relationship issues
2. Snake's Brawl inclusion was a request from Kojima to Sakurai, his inclusion in Ultimate was likely from Sakurai to Konami
3. The Metal Gear Solid '!' is a lot more iconic

It makes sense.

Ah yea i assumed it was Kojima related. Kojima hasnt even said anything about snake on his twitter. He's really just done with Konami and MGS.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

As much id love too see shadow as a echo fighter, hes super different from sonic terms run cylce and attacks and such

A shadow without chaos control would be a misunderstanding to the character completely

I don't actually think that would be too much of a stretch, I mean in sonic adventure 2, sonic heroes and sonic forces he was practically a clone anyway and they could always change his running animation. it could work but he's already been deconfirmed so what does it matter lol

 

[Captain Shwampy]

I don't actually think that would be too much of a stretch, I mean in sonic adventure 2, sonic heroes and sonic forces he was practically a clone anyway and they could always change his running animation. it could work but he's already been deconfirmed so what does it matter lol

Oh was his assist trophy found

 

[Roberk]

While I'm pretty against Chrom's inclusion at this point... apparently, Robin's Final Smash isn't shown in any footage. Maybe this is intentional to hide Chrom as some sort of Echo fighter from us. (Absolute minimal chance he gets in any other way). What other reason would they have? Wouldn't they want to hype up the videos with Final Smashes?

 

[Hinata]

So.... this has been bugging me all day. On Snake's page, one screenshot that seems to be set in Gaur Plain showcases a certain enemy from EarthBound - the Ramblin' Evil Mushroom. But, maybe this isn't Gaur Plain. Maybe - Smash Run is back.

Well, they already brought back every character and damn near every stage, wouldn't surprise me to hear them say they're bringing back modes too.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Oh was his assist trophy found

Nope.

That said, Shadow could work as an Echo Fighter, but he needs Chaos aesthetics to many of his moves. Otherwise it wouldn't fit.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

So Daisy, Pit and Lucina still get their own character slot on the select screen right?

Because I didn't see Pit turn into Dark Pit or Marth turn into Lucina on the alt colors video.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

So Daisy, Pit and Lucina still get their own character slot on the select screen right?

Because I didn't see Pit turn into Dark Pit or Marth turn into Lucina on the alt colors video.

That's what I think it's supposed to be implying by how the site is set up.

No different from Smash 4, really.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

I think Shadow, Isabelle and Funky are the most likely echo fighters. I think Dark Samus is a possiblity too, but less likely due to being an irrelevant character who has no foreseeable future.

 

[DrRiceBoy]

My boy has come a long way... he's so manly now!

 

[KingIceSonic]

I still think Young Link could be considered an Echo Fighter to someone like Toon Link

There won't be that many differences between those two characters, only a couple

 

[RandomAce]

Something I noticed:

They changed the sounds when someone gets hit. I don’t really like it that much and it’s very hard to hear and lacks the oomph so I prefer Smash 4’s slapstick Hit sounds. Hopefully this changes by the time the game releases.

 

[DarkFalcon]

Samus lost her Dark Samus color, and Dark Samus was MIA from the Assist Trophy graveyard. It'd be pretty funny if Dark Samus became an Echoes fighter considering the name of Prime 2 and one of her abilities is calling echoes of herself. I think she deserves to be unique but I wouldn't even be that mad if we got ANOTHER Metroid character. Still can't believe how perfect Ridley is.

 

[UltimateWario]

View attachment 148059

My boy has come a long way... he's so manly now!

Marth is a legendary king and a warrior and tactician. I get that this is anime but I always thought it was weird that he looks like a 15 year old girl.

 

[Idon]

I still think Young Link could be considered an Echo Fighter to someone like Toon Link

There won't be that many differences between those two characters, only a couple

Echo fighters aren't normal clones. They're reserved for characters who have 1:1 moves, stats, and animations.
YLink is still a clone, but he isn't an echo due to having slightly different stats and slightly different animations.

It's a dumb addition that doesn't really add anything and is really just damage control for clones to make it feel like clones are a worthwhile additions to the roster.

 

[PeridotGX]

I think Octolings and Dixie will probably be Echoes, maybe Springtron if we get Spring Man.

 

[Roberk]

View attachment 148059

My boy has come a long way... he's so manly now!

He definitely upped his shampoo game.

 

[Idon]

From Bowl Cut to Wild Child

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

I do trust Sakurai to balance her, yes. But then again, if he didn't change her after all the complaints in smash 4 currently,that's also concerning. But...MKleo probably helped Sakurai really focus on it now. That and the dislikes,enough warning bells...



Would have made sense if it was just Luigi cause well, "Luigi is unpopular" gag. But Yoshi being there made no sense.

Yeah, MK Leo was playing 4D Chess by doing that. Sakurai was probably upset when he heard all the people in the crowd booing him when he did just about any combo with Bayo.

 

[DrRiceBoy]

Marth is a legendary king and a warrior and tactician. I get that this is anime but I always thought it was weird that he looks like a 15 year old girl.

Yeah I kind of agree. His Melee/Brawl incarnation was a bit too feminine. Though to be fair, those versions were supposedly supposed to represent Marth when he was still a naive prince, so it kinda makes sense. His look in Fates/Smash4 was a step in the right direction, and I really feel like they nailed his look in this game. He looks classy, regal, and elegant-- as the Hero King should look.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

I was freaking out the whole trailer... Daisy finally playable and Zelda is adorable! Now if they would bring back individual Break the Targets and Board the Platforms, but especially the funny end-of-round bonuses.

With 60+ characters in this game...individual BTT would be a pain to make

View attachment 148059

My boy has come a long way... he's so manly now!

and he can speak English now

 

[RandomAce]

The Zelda roster still gives me problems.

It’s still Link. Zelda. Ganon

We have THREE Links, talk about overkill, but at least they seem to show off different games from the Zelda series. I still wish they added some of the one off characters like Midna and Ghirahim, it would’ve been a lot better in my opinion.

 

[StrangeMann]

Well, I feel like we can say that without a doubt, Ridley's reveal was the "BIGGEST"(in a literal sense) Newcomer announcement in smash history

The Zelda roster still gives me problems.

It’s still Link. Zelda. Ganon

We have THREE Links, talk about overkill with the Zelda, but at least they seem to show off different games from the Zelda series.

I like the changes made to Zelda, Link, and Ganon. They are all pretty solid changes.

 

[Onua]

Possible echo chars imo

Raiden(snake), Rex(shulk), Dark Samus(samus), Hilda(Zelda), Impa(Sheik), Medusa(Palutena), Shadow(Sonic), Octoling(Inkling), Funky(DK), Dixie(Diddy), Jeanne(Bayo), Zack(Cloud), Ken(Ryu), Ms.Pacman(Pacman), Tharja(Robin), and Dark Shadow(Falcon)

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

The Zelda roster still gives me problems.

It’s still Link. Zelda. Ganon

We have THREE Links, talk about overkill with the Zelda, but at least they seem to show off different games from the Zelda series.

Young link makes me really want another zelda rep, if any franchise is in dire need of another character it's it along with donkey kong. Like skull kid? impa? tingle? I'll take literally anyone that isn't another variation on Link, Zelda or Ganon (except for tetra)

 

[aldelaro5]

Ok so I haven't been super active since.....years, but I am sure some people will remember my time during ssb4 speculation, but for those who don't know: used to be the biggest paper mario supporter, was VERY active on sb during potd and hype time, that all changed after as I mostly left this site AND I no longer want paper mario because of something complicated to explain that has to do with the last 2 games of his series.

So I am here to post an essay of my reactions and thoughts on the direct because first: those who used to know me would be satisfied as they would know how long my essays can go and second because it's fun and as of now, I seem to be caught up on everything which was overwhelming, but I got through!

For tradition, here's the sanctuary guardians music from earthbound for your pleasure during reading

So tbh I didn't had any expectations on the direct, I was leaning on thinking it was a new game, but was clearly unsure. I was in a discord server which consist of actually some members that I used to talk with on this forum, but sadly without mic because it was lunchtime at my work, but I could only type.

Enough about context, let's talk about how it went down with me.

Until sakurai appeared, I was doing my usual "nice, cool" reaction with the direct because let's face it, I don't get hype of things too much, I will admit though, super mario party without a car was a bit hype. Obviously, my heart and hype was.....very high expecting to the smash talk. When sakurai appeared, this is where everything went to heck VERY quickly. They start to show character.....with numbers.....okay why? Whatever, it will jsut be some couple of veterans and finish it off quickly. So I watch, okay mario obviosuly, link lol why he's not gonna be there? But then it got weird, I was seeing a lot of confirmation of vets, when it got to ice climbers.....I was hype, they were cut before so that's nice, but then it became VERY weirdm they confirmed SO much, mewtwo, roy, a lot of characters that we know was problematic in previous versions until dlc, but when I saw young link.....HUH?

okay, this is defintely unusual, WAIT SNAKE WTF?????????

(to tell the truth, I thoguht snake was a goner because of how konami has been doing lately so this took me by HUGE surprise)

So at this point, I kept spamming the chat so much discord had to limit my rate lol. Everyone is here? okay I guess I missed a joke or something idk what was that. Then it continued, freaking the rate of confirmation per second has never been this high in ANY speculation ever, wait even dlc like bayo and cloud? okay what is happening?

Here's the thing, I never realised what was going on because I was too focussed on the confirmation, I obviously didn't count them, but it's only at the end when they show the banner of all the characters (which I legit thoguht a newcomer was going to appear on the right) and the phrase "Everyone is here" that I figured it out. Seriosuly, my brain clicked and I popped off SOOOO hard, not as hard as I did for the paper mario stage annoucnment (and beleive me, that one was somehting....) and I proceed to spam again, and discord limited my rate. I had 2 pages of unsent messages because I was without word I was NOT expecting this AT ALL. Holy crap, this was so much overwhelming that I legit could not pay attention for half of the presentation. I didn't even realised they confirmed a botw stage, that's how little attention my brain could because I was still busy trying to process what happened the last 5 minutes.

So stuf stuff stuff (I missed so much it's ridiculous lol) and then daisy announcement making my brain EVEN LESS apt to pay attention also I loled at echo fighter because.....no one will use this term, it sounds stupid comapred to clone, whatever. stuff and then we got to the freaking newcomer trailer.....oh boy (I didn't expect I would watch it with this state)

Okay I am going to admit, I saw samus and the metroid like area and at the back of my mind, "ridley", but then I instantly thought it was impossible and I am being delusional because sakurai said TWICE it would be too difficult due to its size in a 6 years span. When I saw the VERY obvisous tail, legit I didn't even wanted to believe it, I wasn't thinking straight because logically, they basically confirmed it, but I couldn't believe it was going and then I saw hima nd the tag and I was forced to accept and yet, another pop off......

I was COMPLETELY destroyed, like words cannot describe how overwhelmed I was and I had to left because work, but I realised when I got back that I missed SOOOOO much that it took me until 1am to catch up on everything! This is insane, I lived ssb4 e3 specualtion and I know it was a mess, but this is another level, I was trying to catch up and then something came up, ti was impossible lol

Okay, so there was my reactions, loved the direct, obviosuly, but now let's talk about what I think of the stuff and where do we go from here.

First off, not cutting anyone means ANY reveal is a newcomer, the game releases in 6 months which leaves 2 directs whcih is nice when I think aobut it Now, I know Sakurai said to not expect much, but.....how I interpret his words is in relation to what we got before. ssb4 was insane in newcomer count, but ssbb was only 15, if Sakurai means "nowhere close these numbers", I interpret it as say something like 5 newcomers would be reasonalbe, something like that and we got 3 already so yeah, that's interesting.

Quick notes about characters:

• Ganondorf is the best since ssbm, love him!
• the pokemon trainer made me love him again
• I do not know how, but they managed to make toon link look better
• g&w (my main) got so much animation improvements, I was very pleased
• inkling is VERY interesting and I am surprised how much they packed from splatoon
• Ridley is as badass as I expected

About stages, AMAZING, especially the ones redesigned from ssb3ds because the improvements are insane.

And speaking of stages, MegaMarioMan9 this now woudl interest you because yes, I will bring up talk about the paper mario stage which tbh, is the onyl thing left I want at this point

Again, this is freaking impressive, but afaik, there is about 80 stages confirmed, the number of yet unconfirmed stages is.....very low relative to every stages ever. In fact, there is so little that it's not too far fetched to expect that every stage is here which obvisouly would include the paper mario one which has yet to be seen. Now, I know about the whole thing that I stopped supporting him because of hsi lattest 2 games making it logical to not be based ont he first 3 games blah blah blah, but this is different, the stage was revealed at a time where NOTHING was done but trophies for this series so you bet that I care A LOT still about it.

The thing is, I also noticed soemthing else, none of the stages changed TOO much, they only got improvements in graphics like for example, the conductor link doesn't look like a freaking ds model, it now is full 3d. For as much as 80 stages to follow this trend, this si clearly something done for the entire game so in the event that the paper mario stage is revealed, it shouldn't change the aesthetics that I liked aobut it, mainly first and second phase. Idk what they would do with the third because frankly it sucks, but the point is it's VERY likely that if that stage is in (which is very liekly already for ANY missing stages), that it won't necessarly have color splash design. It will keep its original sticker star and TTYD style to it which I am very pleased and hype about it, oh and maybe this is an opportunity to have better music because I really didn't liked the rogueport remix......urgh.

So yeah, very hype for this game, I am still unsure if I will buy a switch this year, this game definetely makes me consider it though. I am impressed by what they managed to do and I would gladly follow news of the game.

THE END!

this has been so long I done an essay like this omg....

 

[Tree Gelbman]

I just have to say if you're immature enough to dislike a character's video because of a needed nerf (I do agree that she's looking a little too powerful still) you make me not want the nerf to happen.

It's the equal of folding your arms as a child, huffing and stomping your feet until you get your way.

Same goes for groaning when she was revealed after hearing everyone is back. Grow up. She'll be nerfed in due time.

 

[Deleted member]

Echo fighters aren't normal clones. They're reserved for characters who have 1:1 moves, stats, and animations.
YLink is still a clone, but he isn't an echo due to having slightly different stats and slightly different animations.

Except that's not true at all.
Echo Fighters still have at least something different from their counterparts, even if it's miniscule.
Otherwise Alph and the Koopalings would be considered Echo Fighters instead of palette swaps.

 

[DrRiceBoy]

The Zelda roster still gives me problems.

It’s still Link. Zelda. Ganon

We have THREE Links, talk about overkill with the Zelda, but at least they seem to show off different games from the Zelda series.

To be fair, there's still more hope for more Zelda characters! Honestly though I personally like the current Zelda as is. Like you said, there's a lot of representation for different games. Link for BotW, Zelda for ALBW, Toon Link for WW and its sequels, and Ganon/Sheik/Young Link for the N64 games. Lots of diversity there in terms of representation. Also I'd rather them be in the game than not. Each and every single character has a fanbase and it would sadden me if mains of those characters didn't get to play their favorites. I think Sakurai was really aiming for that-- to make every Smash fan happy.

 

[MBRedboy31]

I think Shadow, Isabelle and Funky are the most likely echo fighters. I think Dark Samus is a possiblity too, but less likely due to being an irrelevant character who has no foreseeable future.

I don’t think Isabelle would even work for that just due to the fact that her proportions are notably different from Villager’s, unless they opt to chibi her.

 

[RandomAce]

Well, I feel like we can say that without a doubt, Ridley's reveal was the "BIGGEST"(in a literal sense) Newcomer announcement in smash history

I like the changes made to Zelda, Link, and Ganon. They are all pretty solid changes.

I agree, especially Zelda and Ganon, but I also want more characters as well from Zelda that can be very fun characters for Smash.

 

[Idon]

Except that's not true at all.
Echo Fighters still have at least something different from their counterparts, even if it's miniscule.
Otherwise Alph and the Koopalings would be considered Echo Fighters instead of palette swaps.

Well, 1:.999 ratio of differences.

My point is Their differences are purely in some moves having changed properties as opposed to clones who have other elements slightly adjusted.

 

[Onua]

I can understand if this is all we get BUT

1. Why introduce the concept of "echo fighter" then legit ONLY show daisy and have only 3 echos? That seems weird

2. Bill said "additional characters" during the treehouse so that legit makes me think were getting at least 2 more