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Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

Almost one month has passed since release. In retrospect....

  • This is by far the best Smash ever. Like, I don't even know how they will top this.

  • Pretty freakin' good; I have a few qualms over things like internet play, balancing issues, etc.

  • It's ok, but [insert Smash game here] is better.

  • I'd rather play Parcheesi.


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Nekoo

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I don't want Kamek in Smash, but this whole "generic enemy" talking point is getting old. Seriously, just play through Yoshi's Island and you'll see what we Yoshi fans are talking about
THAT WAS THE POINT HE WAS TRYING TO MAKE!!! Just because a character looks, sounds and even shares the same name as a generic species doesn't mean he/she doesn't have personality distinct from them.
Oh- I did play through it! I just wanted to asks if it was true that Kamek was just....Well...A Magikoopa in Japan without any special name, since I forgot about it. No need to get heated up, it was a question not an argument lmao-


All I did was asking question the last two time- geee
 
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HyperSomari64

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If Tetris is announced as a playable character in Smash Bros. Switch at E3 2018, i will extremely hyped, and everyone will be amazed for happiness
 

Zinith

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Oh- I did play through it! I just wanted to asks if it was true that Kamek was just....Well...A Magikoopa in Japan without any special name, since I forgot about it. No need to get heated up, it was a question not an argument lmao-
Yes, but it matters just as much as Bowser being called "Koopa" in Japan
 

MamaLuigi123456

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That's true, but isn't the Yoshi in Smash/Mario Spin-off THE yoshi? Like Mario's buddy?
Personally I think the whole "Kamek is just a regular Magikoopa in Japan" argument is misconstrued a bit.

You know how Yoshi and Toad are definitive characters, but share their name with their species? Kamek I believe also has this in Japan, where there are multiple "Kameks" but a single, definitive "Kamek" character. The reason I think this is ignored is because of Kamek having a different name compared to other Magikoopas in the West, most likely due to translation errors.

EDIT: his distinction is also helped that in most games he's present in, he is the only Magikoopa that appears.
 
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Nekoo

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Yes, but it matters just as much as Bowser being called "Koopa" in Japan
Well duh, if it did matter we wouldn't get any Pokemon. I just wanted more knowledge since while I played Yoshi's Islands games, I was never fond of their stories in general, gotta admit it.
Though to correct you, In Japan, Koopa aren't called Koopa if my memory is right-
 

Iridium

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While a small detail, I would really like to see more victory animations, like in teams/doubles perhaps. Each character may react a certain way towards another character, and it would be more interesting than two characters for example doing their own animations as if the other does not exist. Any discussion is fine by me.
 

Pacack

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Toughest thing with Kamek is that in japan ALL magikoopa are called "Kamek" so they might not see Kamek as a character in the way we do in the west, it would be more like a generic enemy getting a spot to them, kind of how "Captain Toad" helps us maybe get Toad as he's a specific character now as opposed to just a generic Toad. In japan kamek was always just some magikoopa to them.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Kamek...just a Kamek? Like...he have no "personal characterization" in japan and is just another random Magikoopa?
That's true, but isn't the Yoshi in Smash/Mario Spin-off THE yoshi? Like Mario's buddy?
Time for some weird localization stuff and Japanese trivia.

So, let's start with Yoshi, because that's an important point.

Yoshi, or ヨッシー (yosshī) in Japanese, is derived from よし (yoshi), an interjection meant to say "great!" when you're happy or excited. ヨッシー (yosshī) is used to refer to any individual Yoshi, or to refer to the Yoshi species as a whole (there's no plural in Japanese). This gets kinda confusing because, strictly speaking, there is no differentiation linguistically between a Yoshi, Yoshi (species), or the Yoshi. However, it's generally understood that Yoshi is a character of sorts, as he reappears specifically as a green Yoshi throughout the series, and he seems to remember who Mario is. Indeed, even "Yoshi's Island" can be interpreted both as "island of the Yoshi species" or "island of Yoshi, the character."

Similarly, Kamek/Magikoopa, カメック (kamekku), simply derived from カメ (kame), meaning turtle, is a designation used to identify magikoopa as a species, any singular magikoopa, and the character we call Kamek overseas. Strictly speaking, there is no difference linguistically between them in the Japanese. However, the カメック (kamekku) we know as Kamek here is still presented as the individual antagonist of the Yoshi series, having repeated encounters with ヨッシー (yosshī) throughout the game and getting increasingly frustrated by them. The Magikoopa in this case (Kamek) is one of several magikoopa, but is notable as Bowser's caretaker and personal assistant. This individual appears several times in the Mario franchise, namely in Super Mario RPG, where he's given a specific moniker of カメザード (Kamezādo) and recalls Mario from the Yoshi's Island incident. He also appears singularly (not appearing with any other Magikoopa) in Paper Mario: Sticker Star, Mario & Luigi: Partners in Time, and Mario & Sonic at the London 2012 Olympic Games; as the personal servant to Bowser (alongside generic Magikoopa) in Mario & Luigi: Dream Team; and ambiguously (could be Kamek or a generic Magikoopa) in Mario Party 8, 9, and Island Tour.

Mario Baseball also mentions him despite him not appearing outright:
A resident magician of the Koopa clan. The best of the Magikoopas, Kamek, once attempted to abduct the baby Mario Brothers, but Yoshi and Baby Mario thwarted his sinister plans. The magical powers of the Magikoopa also comes in handy in the game of baseball.
Emphasis mine.

So, Kamek is a designation exclusive to the US, but the character exists as "the best of the Magikoopas" and as Bowser's attendant and caretaker even in Japan. He is as clearly a character as "Yoshi" is in Japan.
 

Idon

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I feel like waiting for smash for switch is like me waiting for Christmas all over again as a child. That excitement is just really getting to me.
I'm wasting so much time checking the calendar to see, if by some miracle we skipped to Tuesday already.
 

Zinith

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Time for some weird localization stuff and Japanese trivia.

So, let's start with Yoshi, because that's an important point.

Yoshi, or ヨッシー (yosshī) in Japanese, is derived from よし (yoshi), an interjection meant to say "great!" when you're happy or excited. ヨッシー (yosshī) is used to refer to any individual Yoshi, or to refer to the Yoshi species as a whole (there's no plural in Japanese). This gets kinda confusing because, strictly speaking, there is no differentiation linguistically between a Yoshi, Yoshi (species), or the Yoshi. However, it's generally understood that Yoshi is a character of sorts, as he reappears specifically as a green Yoshi throughout the series, and he seems to remember who Mario is. Indeed, even "Yoshi's Island" can be interpreted both as "island of the Yoshi species" or "island of Yoshi, the character."

Similarly, Kamek/Magikoopa, カメック (kamekku), simply derived from カメ (kame), meaning turtle, is a designation used to identify magikoopa as a species, any singular magikoopa, and the character we call Kamek overseas. Strictly speaking, there is no difference linguistically between them in the Japanese. However, the カメック (kamekku) we know as Kamek here is still presented as the individual antagonist of the Yoshi series, having repeated encounters with ヨッシー (yosshī) throughout the game and getting increasingly frustrated by them. The Magikoopa in this case (Kamek) is one of several magikoopa, but is notable as Bowser's caretaker and personal assistant. This individual appears several times in the Mario franchise, namely in Super Mario RPG, where he's given a specific moniker of カメザード (Kamezādo) and recalls Mario from the Yoshi's Island incident. He also appears singularly (not appearing with any other Magikoopa) in Paper Mario: Sticker Star, Mario & Luigi: Partners in Time, and Mario & Sonic at the London 2012 Olympic Games; as the personal servant to Bowser (alongside generic Magikoopa) in Mario & Luigi: Dream Team; and ambiguously (could be Kamek or a generic Magikoopa) in Mario Party 8, 9, and Island Tour.

Mario Baseball also mentions him despite him not appearing outright:

Emphasis mine.

So, Kamek is a designation exclusive to the US, but the character exists as "the best of the Magikoopas" and as Bowser's attendant and caretaker even in Japan. He is as clearly a character as "Yoshi" is in Japan.
This...

This is pure art
 

Pacack

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Well duh, if it did matter we wouldn't get any Pokemon. I just wanted more knowledge since while I played Yoshi's Islands games, I was never fond of their stories in general, gotta admit it.
Though to correct you, In Japan, Koopa aren't called Koopa if my memory is right-
In Japan, you're correct. クッパ (Kuppa) (derived from the Japanese word for the Korean dish gukbap) is the Japanese name of the character we call Bowser. Conversely, what we call the Koopa are actually called カメ一族 (kame-ichizoku) or カメ族 (kame-zoku), which literally translates to the "Turtle Tribe." We started calling them Koopa due to a misunderstanding in the translation team.
 
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NeonBurrito

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If we're talking Yoshi characters, I'd honestly rather have Poochy.



He's made appearances in every Yoshi's Island game, had his own starring role in the 3DS port of Yoshi's Woolly World, where it had been renamed Poochy and Yoshi's Woolly World (and came with a series of really cute short films), and he also made an appearance in a recent mainline Mario game through Mario Odyssey, which is something that even characters like Waluigi, Daisy, and Geno can't claim.

I don't think he'll happen any time soon (fingers crossed for an assist trophy), but he's adorable and I love him.
 
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One winged Devil

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If we're talking Yoshi characters, I'd honestly rather have Poochy.



He's made appearances in every Yoshi's Island game, had his own starring role in the 3DS port of Yoshi's Woolly World, where it had been renamed Poochy and Yoshi's Woolly World (and came with a series of really cute short films), and he also made an appearance in a recent mainline Mario game through Mario Odyssey, which is something that even characters like Waluigi, Daisy, and Geno can't claim.

I don't think he'll happen any time soon (fingers crossed for an assist trophy), but he's adorable and I love him.
Make a moveset for him then we'll talk.
 

StrangeMann

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ResetEra's smash discussion room has a new poll: Will Ridley get in, not get in, or is there too much ridley discussion?
 

One winged Devil

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BluePikmin11

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Does not seem like there will be any more suggestions, thanks for the help!

BluePikmin11 BluePikmin11 : I edited my message some time back to explain the characters better. :)
I did a bit of research on Fulgore and Brian recently.

Fulgore, I am personally unsure of. If there were going to be characters from Microsoft, I think Banjo and Kazooie, Master Chief, and Steve would be among the ones that get seriously considered. Fulgore would be the last suggestion I see them considering.

Brian, looking into research, he seems like he comes from a rather obscure third-party IP. I am not so sure if he will be a consideration at all.
 

MamaLuigi123456

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If we're talking Yoshi characters, I'd honestly rather have Poochy.



He's made appearances in every Yoshi's Island game, had his own starring role in the 3DS port of Yoshi's Woolly World, where it had been renamed Poochy and Yoshi's Woolly World (and came with a series of really cute short films), and he also made an appearance in a recent mainline Mario game through Mario Odyssey, which is something that even characters like Waluigi, Daisy, and Geno can't claim.

I don't think he'll happen any time soon (fingers crossed for an assist trophy), but he's adorable and I love him.
Poochy would be cool to have honestly.
 

Pacack

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If we're talking Yoshi characters, I'd honestly rather have Poochy.



He's made appearances in every Yoshi's Island game, had his own starring role in the 3DS port of Yoshi's Woolly World, where it had been renamed Poochy and Yoshi's Woolly World (and came with a series of really cute short films), and he also made an appearance in a recent mainline Mario game through Mario Odyssey, which is something that even characters like Waluigi, Daisy, and Geno can't claim.

I don't think he'll happen any time soon (fingers crossed for an assist trophy), but he's adorable and I love him.
While I'm not against Poochy as an idea, his appearances aren't better than Kamek's.

Poochy appears in:
  • Yoshi's Island
  • Tetris Attack
  • Yoshi's Story
  • Yoshi's New Island
  • Yoshi's Woolly World
  • Poochy & Yoshi's Woolly World
  • Club Nintendo
  • Mario Kart: Double Dash!!
  • Mario Party Advance
  • Super Mario-Kun
  • Minecraft (Super Mario Mash-Up Pack)
  • Super Mario Odyssey
Kamek appears in:
  • Super Mario Adventures
  • Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island
  • Tetris Attack
  • Yoshi Touch & Go
  • Yoshi's Island DS
  • Yoshi's New Island
  • Yoshi's Woolly World
  • Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars
  • Club Nintendo
  • Mario Kart: Super Circuit
  • Mario Kart: Double Dash
  • Mario Kart Wii
  • Mario Party 2
  • Mario Party 5
  • Mario Party 6
  • Mario Party Advance
  • Mario Party 7
  • Mario Party 8
  • Mario Party DS
  • Mario Party 9
  • Mario Party: Island Tour
  • Mario Party 10
  • Mario Party: Star Rush
  • Mario & Luigi: Partners in Time
  • Mario & Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story
  • Mario & Luigi: Dream Team
  • Mario & Luigi: Paper Jam
  • Mario Superstar Baseball
  • Super Mario Galaxy
  • New Super Mario Bros. Wii
  • New Super Mario Bros. U
  • Super Smash Bros. Brawl
  • Super Smash Bros. for 3DS
  • Super Smash Bros. for Wii U
  • Mario & Sonic at the London 2012 Olympic Games
  • Mario & Sonic at the Sochi 2014 Olympic Winter Games
  • Paper Mario: Sticker Star
  • Paper Mario: Color Splash
  • Mario Golf: World Tour
  • Puzzle & Dragons: Super Mario Bros. Edition
  • Minecraft: Wii U Edition / Minecraft: Nintendo Switch Edition
 
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Diddy Kong

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The 3 characters thing

1. Impa, Hyrule Warriors style.
2. King K.Rool. Arguebly far more wanted by the fans than Impa, killing two birds with one stone.
3. Sora. Yeah I do not want this guy in, let him stay in the Disney universe. Seems too complicated and Kingdom Hearts, outside that GBA game, hasn't appeared on a Nintendo system. Minecraft Steve is a close second, but don't believe he's likely in the slightest (or at least I hope)
 

Opossum

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The 3 characters thing

1. Impa, Hyrule Warriors style.
2. King K.Rool. Arguebly far more wanted by the fans than Impa, killing two birds with one stone.
3. Sora. Yeah I do not want this guy in, let him stay in the Disney universe. Seems too complicated and Kingdom Hearts, outside that GBA game, hasn't appeared on a Nintendo system. Minecraft Steve is a close second, but don't believe he's likely in the slightest (or at least I hope)
Kingdom Hearts had a 3DS game, Dream Drop Distance.
 

Pacack

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3. Sora. Yeah I do not want this guy in, let him stay in the Disney universe. Seems too complicated and Kingdom Hearts, outside that GBA game, hasn't appeared on a Nintendo system. Minecraft Steve is a close second, but don't believe he's likely in the slightest (or at least I hope)
Kingdom Hearts has had the following releases on Nintendo consoles:
  • Kingdom Hearts Re: coded (DS)
  • Kingdom Hearts 358/2 Days (DS)
  • Kingdom Hearts 3D: Dream Drop Distance (3DS)
So, more than one release. Not trying to convince you to like him, but I figure that might be important to note.
 
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Swamp Sensei

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Lol like half of the Kingdom Hearts games were on Nintendo systems.
 

Iridium

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I already made an analysis Simon here when the Vergeben leak was first out:



With Vergeben’s Simon Belmont/Ridley leak on Gamefaqs having notable credibility, I figured that I would analyze Simon again. What is the main reason Sakurai wanted to add a Konami character in Smash Switch, despite the company’s incredibly awful treatment to Kojima during their restructure? I can only think of five possible reasons, one of them being personal impact. Sakurai has personal history with Castlevania since the vert first game on the NES, based on the statement he gave in the Sakurai x Nomura interview:

“For me personally, it was the year 1986, when games like The Legend of Zelda and Castlevania were released, and I experienced physically interactive games. They had a big impact on me.”

I feel that such personal impact with this iconic franchise would tempt him to consider a Castlevania character. Second, Simon's potentially massive ballot popularity. I have seen Simon Belmont constantly requested and campaigned in online forums since the ballot creation. Simon’s amount of votes could have convinced Sakurai enough at least consider the idea thoroughly. Third, the move-set potential Simon offers. Simon has a distinct weapon not primarily used by other Smash characters, which would be his whip. That and his assortment of different weapons like the throwing axe, holy water, and boomerang could have tempted Sakurai to make him playable.

Fourth, pure will. I think there would be no way Konami characters would be a consideration to Sakurai without getting past the Konami Kojima treatment. I feel two things would play into this. One, the strong likelihood that Kojima would want Snake back in Smash. Even back in Smash 4, he still wanted Snake to be in the game despite not being contacted by Sakurai to do negotiations. Metal Gear Solid is still Kojima’s baby, and I cannot imagine an event where Kojima would not want it to happen even in the hard circumstances. If Sakurai contacted him primarily for permission, Kojima would still say yes and possibly help Sakurai with his anger with Konami.

Fifth and most importantly, Sakurai wanting to have Smash be the #1 fighting game roster ever. Sakurai has managed to create an unbelievable roster for Smash 4 thanks to the third-party additions like Sonic, Megaman, Pac-Man, Ryu, Cloud, all big gaming icons in a single fighting game. With Smash 4 in specific, he wanted the 3DS/Wii U installment to be the best character game in the world. If he wanted to fill in the remaining bases for big third-parties like he stated in a Nintendo Dream interview, then he will have to get past Konami’s treatment and try to negotiate one of Konami’s big icons to truly make Smash the number one character game in the world.



In my perspective, with Konami’s restructuring in 2016 when the Smash Switch project plan was created, they would still be open and fair with the negotiation of Simon Belmont. Around this time, they previously brought a majority of their old library via Wii U eShop consistently throughout the years when other third-parties couldn’t, allowed their titles to be part of the NES Mini lineup, and had a Castlevania anime in production in 2016. (If Vergeben’s information is anything to go by.) I personally think in 2016, Konami was free and available to make profitable business deals with Nintendo and Sakurai. All of these factors create an small opening in which Simon Belmont’s inclusion in Smash Bros. is very possible. This is just my theory though to explain how an addition like Simon came to be.

For Zero, I do not see multiple characters from the same third-party franchise happening. He is definitely a very popular request in the Smash community, but I only see him as a Mii costume and trophy at best.

For Marx, I am already settled with Bandanna Dee, and I think the Star Allies DLC was too late to influence the roster decisions in 2016.

For Scorpion/Sub-Zero, I cannot imagine them being popular enough in the ballot to be seriously considered. Mortal Kombat is definitely a huge deal, but in terms of requests, I do not see them being highly demanded.
Okay, well what about Magnus, Saki Amamiya or Takamaru, as their status as assist trophies have made them more relevant than the other characters I mentioned.
 
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