Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[BluePikmin11]

Keep posting newcomer suggestions for my roster analysis if you are interested. I am going to compile all my responses in one post.

 

[?????????????]

Keep posting newcomer suggestions for my roster analysis if you are interested. I am going to compile all my responses in one post.

Erdrick.

 

[Zippo]

https://youtu.be/g8AcAENWeXs

Y'all.

Andre from Gamexplain said this about Ridley in the latest video discussion:

"There are many reasons I can go into...we don't want to say too much for reasons I don't want to give away yet, but you'll find out this weekend."

Woah

 

[Cyn]

Keep posting newcomer suggestions for my roster analysis if you are interested. I am going to compile all my responses in one post.

Don't forget to add Linkle.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Keep posting newcomer suggestions for my roster analysis if you are interested. I am going to compile all my responses in one post.

-Fulgore(Besides bringing the infamous Combo Breaker, the character has varied robotic moves not generally seen in Smash. Beyond that, also is the face of Killer Instinct and has his iconic rush move)
-Brian(Quest 64)(A character that has the potential to be a magic user that uses the 4 elements while maintaining a unique array of gameplay due to the extremely high spell variety)
-Shadow the Hedgehog(A very easy character to implement and popular as hell to boot. Using the various Chaos moves and even potentially weapons, he can provide fast and strong action along with unique projectiles)
-Agumon(The original core Digimon that's recognized and loved. He's abilities allow for tons of evolution choices along with many simple dinosaur and flame attacks. Beyond that, his costumes have potential for very unique alts, not unlike what Little Mac has)
-Lloyd Irving(perhaps one of my favorite double sword users, he provides a unique array of moves that are both sword-based as well as more simplistic projectiles, along with moves that put him at various angles while firing the projectile, making for an interesting metagame).
-Genesect(...I like it. Beyond the drives, I got nothing).

 

[SchAlternate]

Popping in randomly to say I hope they keep Villager with his current proportions and don't use the New Leaf "taller" design.

The New Leaf design is really weird looking and ugly to me.

Peersonally, I hope we get an alt based on their original designs with the hat and "horns".

(Also hoping that said hats become the basis for their Kirby hats this time)

 

[Zinith]

Alright. Just for curiosity.


You got to pick 3 Newcomers. One being the one you want most out of anything and anyone. The second a character just to please it's fans. The last will be the character you despise the most.

Mine;

1. King K. Rool. (Most wanted newcomer.)
2. Ridley. (They have suffered enough.)
3. Rabbids. (God ... Not Mario Rabbids or anything, just plain Rabbids.)

1. Boshi (This is ME we're talking about here)
2. Soda Popinski (Little Mac mains were mercilessly picked on last game)
3. Oh, um.... oh boy, I don't know.... Midna?

 

[BluePikmin11]

You guys could add explanations for newcomer suggestions too. It will help me understand your perspective. :L

 

[One winged Devil]

https://youtu.be/g8AcAENWeXs

Y'all.

Andre from Gamexplain said in the latest video discussion that he "can't go into detail why at the moment" but he thinks Ridley is getting into Smash, and "we'll find out why" this weekend.

Woah

Oh God my heart can't take it anymore.

RIDLEY I LOVE YOU!

 

[Just a random scrub]

Ahhh...

Pic-of-the-day memes.

All Smash games generate internet memes, but that... that was special.

Yeah, I hope the Pic of the Day comes back, purely for the dank memes.

 

[Aaron1997]

https://youtu.be/g8AcAENWeXs

Y'all.

Andre from Gamexplain said this in the latest video discussion:

"There are many reasons I can go into...we don't want to say too much for reasons I don't want to give away yet, but you'll find out this weekend."

Woah

Timestamp?

 

[TMNTSSB4]

I see...That you fail to see my point dude. I won't push further

My point >
seriousness or not

Keep posting newcomer suggestions for my roster analysis if you are interested. I am going to compile all my responses in one post.

If not there already...
Lyn
Viridi
Captain Toad
Funky Kong
Labo
JoyCon Boy
Excitebike
Impa
Crash Bandicoot
Scorpion
Qubert

 

[Knight Dude]

Hey guys.

You think newcomer posters will come back again?

I think they might. Or they should, since so many were well done. Like references in Mega Man's, Ryu's, Little Mac's and Pac-Man's. Or are just really cool like Bayo's. Greninja's even had Ken Sugimori's art if I'm not mistaken. Though a lot of newcomers had their posters done by artists of their series.

 

[Zinith]

Keep posting newcomer suggestions for my roster analysis if you are interested. I am going to compile all my responses in one post.

Boshi

 

[StrangeMann]

I’m thinking it’s very likely Ridley is getting in now. There’s a consusus around smash media outlets in expecting him, on top of the ResetEra and Vergeben stuff. Don’t assume he’s certain, but things are looking up.

 

[Crap-Zapper]

We had people do that before Wii Fit Trainer, and tbh, I really haven't seen any good surprise character lately, the only one that keeps popping up is the Hanafuda cards, and maybe Style Swavy. You gotta remember that Cloud was a wtf character too, since pretty much no one expected him.

I'm betting this Smash will have a bunch of surprises.

In that case. Solid Snake.

 

[DLEAF]

Keep posting newcomer suggestions for my roster analysis if you are interested. I am going to compile all my responses in one post.

I can see Funky Kong added as a last minute clone.

I don't know what Sakurai's relationship is to Retro, but it's possible that he could've found out about the Funky Mode, decided "hey I need some clones, he sounds interesting," and then bada-boom, Funky in Smash.

 

[Shadowwolflink]

https://youtu.be/g8AcAENWeXs

Y'all.

Andre from Gamexplain said this about Ridley in the latest video discussion:

"There are many reasons I can go into...we don't want to say too much for reasons I don't want to give away yet, but you'll find out this weekend."

Woah

What's the context? Is that in response to the Vergeben leak?

 

[Robert of Normandy]

Alright. Just for curiosity.


You got to pick 3 Newcomers. One being the one you want most out of anything and anyone. The second a character just to please it's fans. The last will be the character you despise the most.

Most of my major wanted characters are in the game already and I'm not as much into Nintendo games outside of FE these days, so my most wanted is a bit...out there, to say the least.

1. Adol Christin (not my favorite Falcom character, but he's the one with the most reasonable chance to be picked, even if it's still a very small chance. plus I mostly would want him for the music. )
2. Ridley
3. I don't really despise any characters who are usually brought up for Smash newcomers...I'll just say Tharja I guess 'cause I really don't like Tharja.

 

[Iridium]

Keep posting newcomer suggestions for my roster analysis if you are interested. I am going to compile all my responses in one post.

Simon Belmont, Zero and maybe Marx or, wait for it, Scorpion/Sub-Zero. I swear, Nintendo made it work with Bayonetta and Snake, so I want to see what would they do for them.

 

[Arcadenik]

Peersonally, I hope we get an alt based on their original designs with the hat and "horns".

View attachment 147376View attachment 147377

(Also hoping that said hats become the basis for their Kirby hats this time)

That's what I wanted too.

= Viking hat
= princess hat

I agree it would be cool for Villager to have alts based on their original designs. The original Animal Crossing game on the Gamecube made me a fan of the series in the first place 16 years ago.

 

[Super Flygon]

https://youtu.be/g8AcAENWeXs

Y'all.

Andre from Gamexplain said this about Ridley in the latest video discussion:

"There are many reasons I can go into...we don't want to say too much for reasons I don't want to give away yet, but you'll find out this weekend."

Woah

They really know how to get people excited! Do you know which part of the video Andre says that?

 

[Autumn ♫]

In that case. Solid Snake.

That would actually be the first case of a wtf veteran, unless Young Link, Pichu, or the Pokemon Trainer's Pokemon return.

Plus, since it's Snake, I'm 100% for it.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

I’m thinking it’s very likely Ridley is getting in now. There’s a consusus around smash media outlets in expecting him, on top of the ResetEra and Vergeben stuff. Don’t assume he’s certain, but things are looking up.

Which ones are consensus about Ridley?

 

[TMNTSSB4]

The only vet I want back truly is the Ice Climbers

 

[IronWarrior94]

https://youtu.be/g8AcAENWeXs

Y'all.

Andre from Gamexplain said this about Ridley in the latest video discussion:

"There are many reasons I can go into...we don't want to say too much for reasons I don't want to give away yet, but you'll find out this weekend."

Woah

I go back and forth between here and Resetera for Smash, and over there they said people are over thinking that statement. Andre is probably just referring to a video they're going to do this weekend on why Ridley should be playable now, not actual hinting or teasing.

Edit: From Resetera

Yall WAAAAAAAY overthinking it

They’ve clearly made another episode of making the case like the did for Captain toad and Bandana Dee. This weekend they plan to upload a making the case episode for Ridley in Smash bros.

 

[Knight Dude]

Simon Belmont, Zero and maybe Marx or, wait for it, Scorpion/Sub-Zero. I swear, Nintendo made it work with Bayonetta and Snake, so I want to see what would they do for them.

Seconded with Scorpion and Sub-Zero. I know they are probably unlikely as hell since, while iconic and popular, they come from a violent series(that I like) and most of their popularity comes from the West, so the Japanese fanbase ain't likely to vouch for them.

Pretty sure I threw in a vote for Sub-Zero though during the ballot.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

They really know how to get people excited! Do you know which part of the video Andre says that?

Found it

31:20

 

[The Legendary Beast]

Sorry guys.

"I phrased it very poorly haha--it's not a tease for anything but our own content "

https://www.resetera.com/posts/8894206/


Unless he's trying to draw attention away from it?

 

[Zippo]

What's the context? Is that in response to the Vergeben leak?

They were just talking about Ridley.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Kamek...just a Kamek? Like...he have no "personal characterization" in japan and is just another random Magikoopa?

And Yoshi is just another random Yoshi

 

[Super Flygon]

Andre posted on ResetEra less than 10 minutes ago that he was only talking about his own content (probably similar to what they did for Captain Toad & Bandana Waddle Dee).

https://www.resetera.com/threads/su...st3-on-path-to-e3.44544/page-196#post-8894206

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

Oh God my heart can't take it anymore.

RIDLEY I LOVE YOU!

Timestamp?

What's the context? Is that in response to the Vergeben leak?

It's 31:10 when they start talking about ridley

But really he immediately told everyone he expressed it badly he knows nothing about If Ridley is in smash or not

 

[.Shìkì]

Keep posting newcomer suggestions for my roster analysis if you are interested. I am going to compile all my responses in one post.

Gunvolt from Azure Striker Gunvolt. The tagging mechanic seems like something novel, there is a lot of moves that would translate well, his Final Smash would write itself, and you could have Moniqa or Joule for some character descriptions ala Palutena's Guidance / Snake's report thing.

 

[Troykv]

Keep posting newcomer suggestions for my roster analysis if you are interested. I am going to compile all my responses in one post.

Oh? What exactly you will analize?

Because the only ideas that I would give are Micaiah and Adeleine that aren't already said for other people.

I love Micaiah BTW

 

[BluePikmin11]

Thanks for the mental exercise everyone. Twas a good way to pass the time.

Well, because of my heavy Star Fox bias, here's one that I'm curious about: Slippy.

Slippy is probably the most likely Star Fox newcomer right now, with Krystal's only chances being with her popularity in the ballot. Slippy has been in three releases within the past two years. One of which, Star Fox Guard, was a spin-off that he was the star of. Moveset wise, he has plenty going for him, thanks to Star Fox: Assault and Star Fox Guard. Plus he'd make for an interesting 'joke' character as some may say.

I wouldn't go as far as to say that he's likely, but I think he actually has a decent chance this time around. Would like to hear your thoughts on him, regardless.

I think Sakurai will just try bring back Wolf alongside Falco/Fox, and that is as far Star Fox representation is getting. I personally cannot see a new Star Fox character again until we see a new SF title that manages to outdo the success of Star Fox 64 and evolve the gameplay formula, not unlike Star Fox Zero.

Maybe consider DK Jr. as a possible historical character? He fits the type of archetype Duck Hunt did (massively well known and popular game that no one expects a character from due to age) and would be an interesting way to represent the classic arcade origins of DK and Mario, which have only gotten more referenced as of late.

I do not plan on changing my historical surprise newcomer choice any time soon. I have a bet to fulfill with Cutie Gwen involving Hanafuda being in this Smash. :L

Additionally, I'd definitely recommend considering Kamek as a newcomer that people are sleeping on. He's the main antagonist of a game series that had three releases between the end of Sm4sh roster selection and the beginning of Smash 5's roster selection and which is going to receive a Switch title soon (this year?) He's also extremely recognizable, arguably being the tertiary villain of the massive Mario franchise. Further, his magical abilities allow for a lot of flexibility in moveset options, to the point that him summoning and buffing enemies to attack the opponent is a real possibility. He's not particularly popular a choice, but he fits the bill of a Rosalina/Bowser Jr./Robin-esque choice that makes sense in hindsight.

Personally, I do not think Kamek will ever be seriously considered. I think Sakurai views Kamek as a generic enemy to utilize for non-character content. I could see Kamek as the stage element for a NSMBU stage again if that comes out and also be an enemy in a potential modified Smash Run mode.

Erdrick.

I already had him as an honorable mention. Dragon Quest is one of the biggest Square Enix franchises in Japan, with Dragon Quest III being one of the most influential RPG. He could possibly be chosen by Sakurai in his own will via special case scenario just like Ryu. I do feel 3rd parties will be heavily based on ballot popularity, and I cannot imagine Japan heavily voting on a Dragon Quest character in the ballot for Sakurai to consider the idea.

Don't forget to add Linkle.

I do not see Linkle happening. The best I could see for Zelda candidates are re-occuring characters that manage to hold strong importance to every Zelda mainline title. Impa is the closest thing, but I do not see her as central enough in Zelda games for me to seriously consider her.

Fulgore, Brian(Quest 64), Shadow the Hedgehog, Agumon, Lloyd Irving, Genesect

Not sure who the former two are, but I do know the latter four.

I could see a second Sonic character considered, especially with Shadow in particular likely being a very popular ballot candidate, but I am unsure if Sakurai will go for the idea. I think Sakurai would rather take opportunities to negotiate other third-party IPs for characters.

Agumon is rather unique. Digimon was rather well-known for being a massive competitor to Pokemon way back and had become a successful franchise. Those people would match-up Agumon against Pikachu easily, and I can easily see this being a motivation for Sakurai to add the character, as well as influence a large number of fans to vote Agumon on the ballot. But, the problem with his inclusion is that he is a Namco Bandai character. Out of all of the Namco Bandai characters Sakurai has considered, Heihachi was one of the few considered. Sakurai had already done a fast process of elimination on which Namco character he would choose long ago back in Smash 4 roster planning. Whichever Bandai Namco character gets chosen, it will likely be a special case scenario, just like Pac-Man. I highly doubt Agumon would have been one of the choices that was seriously considered back in Smash 4. Heihachi would be picked over Agumon if the team were to look for candidates for 2nd Namco character again.

I do not see Lloyd for the same reason as Agumon, being that Heihachi will probably be chosen over other Namco icons.

Genesect, I do not see him becoming a consideration at this point with Pokemon moving on to Sun/Moon.

I can see Funky Kong added as a last minute clone.

I don't know what Sakurai's relationship is to Retro, but it's possible that he could've found out about the Funky Mode, decided "hey I need some clones, he sounds interesting," and then bada-boom, Funky in Smash.

I had a Dixie Kong analysis earlier that touched on the subject of clones here:

Spoiler: Dixie Kong

We need to look into the history of clones in Smash before discussing Dixie. Starting with Smash 64, Sakurai was able to create the four hidden characters only with the fact that he was able to reuse some movements and model parts of pre-existing characters from Nintendo and possibly from Dragon King concept of gameplay as well. Although 64’s cast of characters were all unique, it was not until Melee greatly expanded on clones. With Melee, Sakurai added last-minute clones mid-way in development to pad out the roster. This was the only time where Sakurai would come up with clone ideas during development. For Brawl, clone characters like Wolf/Toon Link were planned since the start. Note, for Brawl, Dixie was actually part of the cut character line-up based on file evidence, which indicates Sakurai already finding her merits to being a playable character.

For Smash 4, newcomer clones were not originally planned, but only the alternate costume to last-minute clones due to characteristic differences in attack function. With Sakurai focusing more on unique newcomers in Smash and far less with bringing new planned clones, it makes seeing Dixie becoming playable a smaller possibilty. he only notable way I can see new clones in is through alt. costume to last-minute character or if they are clones planned from the start. I cannot see Dixie Kong originally being an alternate costume for Donkey Kong in Smash Switch as Smash 4 only had only a Dixie color palette for Diddy at best. But, I can see her being planned from the start that gives her a potential shot. That is, IF these two certain factors align:

The first of which is Dixie’s relevance. She hits a middle ground, where her major appearance in Tropical Freeze was too late of a release for her to get considered in Smash 4’s base game and her not being planned with only fan-favorite veterans and third-parties as DLC with not a new clone added, despite Dixie’s major appearance in Tropical Freeze as relevant enough at the time to be considered as a possible DLC choice for Smash 4.

I have realized now her big appearance in the TF Switch port would potentially not count in this matter, assuming every character had been planned in 2016 when the port likely was not known or developed at the time. It does count on Sakurai seeing Tropical Freeze Wii U as relevant enough at the time of the project proposal in 2016, even in 2014, for me to see Sakurai consider and plan her at most as a low-priority character.

Most importantly, her being in will HEAVILY depend on her ballot popularity. If her number of votes in the ballot are notably really high, I can see that opening a hole for Sakurai, to which he can make an exception on his newcomer selection and add Dixie in Smash as a planned but low priority newcomer clone. It is likely that she gained a notable degree of popularity at the time of the ballot, but whether such popularity will convince Sakurai to make exceptions is fairly uncertain with his current philosophy on newcomers.

It is going to take a miracle, but I am banking on it happening. Sakurai added Wolf way back in Brawl as the last clone character mainly due to high popularity. If Dixie’s potentially high amount of ballot votes is suffice enough for Sakurai to make exceptions with the newcomer selection process, then I can see her added as a planned low-priority clone at best. She has two big obstacles to overcome, but there is a small ray of hope. I see Dixie more as a risky bet than a likely choice for now.

I do not see the Tropical Freeze Switch port becoming an influence for character development. I can only see Funky as a possible candidate for DLC.

Simon Belmont, Zero and maybe Marx or, wait for it, Scorpion/Sub-Zero. I swear, Nintendo made it work with Bayonetta and Snake, so I want to see what would they do for them.

I already made an analysis Simon here when the Vergeben leak was first out:

Spoiler: Simon Belmont

With Vergeben’s Simon Belmont/Ridley leak on Gamefaqs having notable credibility, I figured that I would analyze Simon again. What is the main reason Sakurai wanted to add a Konami character in Smash Switch, despite the company’s incredibly awful treatment to Kojima during their restructure? I can only think of five possible reasons, one of them being personal impact. Sakurai has personal history with Castlevania since the vert first game on the NES, based on the statement he gave in the Sakurai x Nomura interview:

“For me personally, it was the year 1986, when games like The Legend of Zelda and Castlevania were released, and I experienced physically interactive games. They had a big impact on me.”

I feel that such personal impact with this iconic franchise would tempt him to consider a Castlevania character. Second, Simon's potentially massive ballot popularity. I have seen Simon Belmont constantly requested and campaigned in online forums since the ballot creation. Simon’s amount of votes could have convinced Sakurai enough at least consider the idea thoroughly. Third, the move-set potential Simon offers. Simon has a distinct weapon not primarily used by other Smash characters, which would be his whip. That and his assortment of different weapons like the throwing axe, holy water, and boomerang could have tempted Sakurai to make him playable.

Fourth, pure will. I think there would be no way Konami characters would be a consideration to Sakurai without getting past the Konami Kojima treatment. I feel two things would play into this. One, the strong likelihood that Kojima would want Snake back in Smash. Even back in Smash 4, he still wanted Snake to be in the game despite not being contacted by Sakurai to do negotiations. Metal Gear Solid is still Kojima’s baby, and I cannot imagine an event where Kojima would not want it to happen even in the hard circumstances. If Sakurai contacted him primarily for permission, Kojima would still say yes and possibly help Sakurai with his anger with Konami.

Fifth and most importantly, Sakurai wanting to have Smash be the #1 fighting game roster ever. Sakurai has managed to create an unbelievable roster for Smash 4 thanks to the third-party additions like Sonic, Megaman, Pac-Man, Ryu, Cloud, all big gaming icons in a single fighting game. With Smash 4 in specific, he wanted the 3DS/Wii U installment to be the best character game in the world. If he wanted to fill in the remaining bases for big third-parties like he stated in a Nintendo Dream interview, then he will have to get past Konami’s treatment and try to negotiate one of Konami’s big icons to truly make Smash the number one character game in the world.

In my perspective, with Konami’s restructuring in 2016 when the Smash Switch project plan was created, they would still be open and fair with the negotiation of Simon Belmont. Around this time, they previously brought a majority of their old library via Wii U eShop consistently throughout the years when other third-parties couldn’t, allowed their titles to be part of the NES Mini lineup, and had a Castlevania anime in production in 2016. (If Vergeben’s information is anything to go by.) I personally think in 2016, Konami was free and available to make profitable business deals with Nintendo and Sakurai. All of these factors create an small opening in which Simon Belmont’s inclusion in Smash Bros. is very possible. This is just my theory though to explain how an addition like Simon came to be.

For Zero, I do not see multiple characters from the same third-party franchise happening. He is definitely a very popular request in the Smash community, but I only see him as a Mii costume and trophy at best.

For Marx, I am already settled with Bandanna Dee, and I think the Star Allies DLC was too late to influence the roster decisions in 2016.

For Scorpion/Sub-Zero, I cannot imagine them being popular enough in the ballot to be seriously considered. Mortal Kombat is definitely a huge deal, but in terms of requests, I do not see them being highly demanded.

Gunvolt from Azure Striker Gunvolt. The tagging mechanic seems like something novel, there is a lot of moves that would translate well, his Final Smash would write itself, and you could have Moniqa or Joule for some character descriptions ala Palutena's Guidance / Snake's report thing.

In terms of indie characters, I do not see Gunvolt as a possibility. I see Shovel Knight and maybe Shantae being the only plausible indie characters that could be chosen with ballot popularity, maybe Sans at some point if DLC comes. I do not see Gunvolt being anywhere close high in the ballot.

Oh? What exactly you will analize?

Because the only ideas that I would give are Micaiah and Adeleine that aren't already said for other people.

I love Micaiah BTW

I think you already know my stance on Micaiah back in RTC. :L

I personally love Adeleine, but eh, I am content with Bandanna Dee for right now. She is nowhere near as popular as Dee during the project plan for me to see Sakurai consider her. ;_;

 

[Nekoo]

And Yoshi is just another random Yoshi

That's true, but isn't the Yoshi in Smash/Mario Spin-off THE yoshi? Like Mario's buddy?

 

[Zinith]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Kamek...just a Kamek? Like...he have no "personal characterization" in japan and is just another random Magikoopa?

I don't want Kamek in Smash, but this whole "generic enemy" talking point is getting old. Seriously, just play through Yoshi's Island and you'll see what we Yoshi fans are talking about

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

I don't know if anyone has mentioned this about Oct 31, but it's a Wednesday. I'm pretty sure most Nintendo releases have been on Fridays.

 

[Zinith]

That's true, but isn't the Yoshi in Smash/Mario Spin-off THE yoshi? Like Mario's buddy?

THAT WAS THE POINT HE WAS TRYING TO MAKE!!! Just because a character looks, sounds and even shares the same name as a generic species doesn't mean he/she doesn't have personality distinct from them.