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Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

Almost one month has passed since release. In retrospect....

  • This is by far the best Smash ever. Like, I don't even know how they will top this.

  • Pretty freakin' good; I have a few qualms over things like internet play, balancing issues, etc.

  • It's ok, but [insert Smash game here] is better.

  • I'd rather play Parcheesi.


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MoonlitIllusion

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The problem is that there isn’t necessarily much to pull from with those games though. They’re all series that have characters already.

Star Fox would probably provide Wolf, but that’s a vet we’ve already had. Paper Mario is well...Paper Mario/Mario.

I don’t think the point is that there weren’t games. The point is more that there weren’t many new, successful IP on the Wii U besides Splatoon. In terms of new character and IP, you pretty much have Inklings and Elma, and Elma doesn’t even represent a new IP.

At least I assume that's what the point is.

Not to mention, just because older IPs have new games doesn’t mean a character is going to be taken from them. Just because Kirby has a game doesn’t mean Bandanna Dee will be in, for example.
But it's not like the switch has much to offer to begin with, including switch games will at most add 2 characters lol

Personally, I started with X after watching a Xenoblade Chronicles playthrough online (being unable to find it for Wii).

If you ask me now, I'd say Xenoblade Chronicles is the best objectively, but X was a fantastic title of its own. It was my game of the year for 2015. I hope that the formula they established with that title gets further refined when XCX2 comes out.
Oh totally I should've said but yeah XC > XCX > XC2

It's all down to personal preference tho and the first game and X are like neck and neck to me
 
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Gameboi834

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But it's not like the switch has much to offer to begin with, including switch games will at most add 2 characters lol
Spring Man, the characters from Snipper Clips, Cappy Mario, the BotW Champions, Rabbid Mario or Peach, Rex and Pyra...
 

Scoliosis Jones

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But it's not like the switch has much to offer to begin with, including switch games will at most add 2 characters lol


Oh totally I should've said but yeah XC > XCX > XC2

It's all down to personal preference tho and the first game and X are like neck and neck to me
Perhaps Smash Switch is using the Ballot for a few of their newcomers and not entirely relying on either generation? I don't know, but to think that Sakurai would look at the Wii U/3DS and ONLY the Wii U/3DS seems weird. Not only would he probably know a new console is coming, but that new things were down the pike as well.

I'm not saying the man knows everything, but the Wii U came and went without a wimper. That doesn't mean he wouldn't look at anything persay. But to me, I wouldn't put it past him to look ahead either.
 

MoonlitIllusion

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Spring Man, the characters from Snipper Clips, Cappy Mario, the BotW Champions, Rabbid Mario or Peach, Rex and Pyra...
Basically just springman and rex then, a champion too but they could be considered regardless cause BOTW was like practically done in like 2015. Rabbids are 3rd party, cappy mario? I mean I guess pauline with cappy could be a thing on their own but they really need to establish themselves in the mario universe like rosa did first, and snipper clips... is snipper clips

Perhaps Smash Switch is using the Ballot for a few of their newcomers and not entirely relying on either generation? I don't know, but to think that Sakurai would look at the Wii U/3DS and ONLY the Wii U/3DS seems weird. Not only would he probably know a new console is coming, but that new things were down the pike as well.

I'm not saying the man knows everything, but the Wii U came and went without a wimper. That doesn't mean he wouldn't look at anything persay. But to me, I wouldn't put it past him to look ahead either.
I suppose he could but looking ahead gives us 2 characters at best, the switch's first year was kinda dry. Characters that were prominent during the wii u/3ds era and popular ballot picks likely gives them more than enough characters to work with anyway
 
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Sage of Ice

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*fingers crossed for medusa*

I really hope she gets in lol
I know people say "lol no more kid icarus chars" but honestly she would fit so well in smash and shes one of the few if only main baddies from the NES era of games thats a girl.
She also has an awesome design.
Tbh shes my most wanted newcomer that makes sense (sure I want fossil fighter and stocke but both are super super long shots)
I think Medusa has a fair chance.
people don't want more kid icarus characters? why? every single character from Uprising was tons of fun and i'd love to see at least one more get in
 

Bradli Wartooth

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people don't want more kid icarus characters? why? every single character from Uprising was tons of fun and i'd love to see at least one more get in
People just don't think the franchise is big enough to "deserve that much representation." I'm more in the camp that representation isn't that big of a deal as long as the characters are fun and at least somewhat unique.
 

Jibblypuff_

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Obligatory Music for Xenoblade Chronicles X Discussion:

Black Tar is unironically good and nothing anyone says can ever change my opinion. Hiroyuki Sawano is the GOAT and he needs to come back for X2.
 

Pacack

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I'm not gonna lie. Out of the 3 games, Xenoblade Chronicles X is my favorite. The way you move, the battle system, the music, the aesthetic, the closer sci-fi elements and those Skells!!!
Honestly, I feel like a lot of the split between people who prefer XCX and XC2 is the difference in the sci-fi and fantasy aesthetics.

 

Scoliosis Jones

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I'm calling it now. If Elma makes base roster and we get Rex & Pyra as DLC (which, based on Sakurai playing and loving the game while working on Smash, I can only imagine he was putting everything together right then and there), Xenoblade will be looked at as the next Fire Emblem controversy.

"ZOMG IT HAS TOO MANY REPS"

Do they play differently? Are they fun?

Then shut up and enjoy it. Jeez.
 

PSIGuy

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I mean, I don't really think being a fantasy world character makes you a worse choice than a sci-fi soldier. Suggesting that the theme of the game makes one character more interesting than another alone is asinine.
Not only would both characters play differently than anybody else on the roster, but their designs would be far different as well.
When you say "Another swordsman", you're basically reviving a dead and tired argument that a character using a sword is boring. This is said every time a new sword user is introduced. Yet, literally every single sword user in the game plays differently from every other sword user in the game. Not to mention, Rex would likely need to be paired with Pyra/Mythra to work accurately, and there are plenty of interesting gameplay mechanics to pull from Xenoblade 2.
I don't really see why XC2 gets so much hate besides the same tired arguments, when really it just comes down to whatever character somebody likes better.
Both characters would be great. There's no reason to pit them against each other.
It's not just fantasy vs sci-fi, it's "linear story based" vs "open ended exploration based". I'd argue the type of game counts for something, and X is a very different kind of game from 1-2 even when you ignore any superficial or aesthetic elements. That's the thing; all of X's aesthetic differences contribute to it's structural differences. It's a game based on exploration, so you have characters who can run fast and leap high and drive robots to make exploring easier. You can approach almost any area from any angle, and tackle it with any number of builds, party members, strategies, what have you. You can swim to the 'final' continent of the game as soon as chapter 3 if you want. THAT's why I think an X character makes for a better addition. It doesn't appeal to the same people who would already like Shulk and all the music and settings XB1 brought to Smash. Things like different weapon choices, armor options, character design all contribute to that.
Using a sword doesn't mean a character is necessarily boring at all, you're right. Takamaru is one of my most wanted characters. But franchises like FE get criticised for having lots of blue haired swordsmen for a reason, even when Marth/Ike are very different fighters. Characters standing out from others on the roster and within their own franchise counts for a lot. Shulk and Rex are a lot closer than Shulk and any X character would be.
 

?????????????

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people don't want more kid icarus characters? why? every single character from Uprising was tons of fun and i'd love to see at least one more get in
I used to be so dead-set against Kid Icarus getting more characters 'cause I didn't believe it "deserved it." Like...since Kid Icarus was a smaller series, it shouldn't have too many characters in Smash.

But I'd like to change that thinking. Uprising has some awesome characters that would be awesome Smash characters. Medusa, Viridi, and Hades all come to mind immediately. I even think Magnus would be fun.

...Now, it'd be nice if we saw a new Kid Icarus game for Switch ON TOP of that! I'd wager it'd do even better than Uprising!
 

MoonlitIllusion

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I'm calling it now. If Elma makes base roster and we get Rex & Pyra as DLC (which, based on Sakurai playing and loving the game while working on Smash, I can only imagine he was putting everything together right then and there), Xenoblade will be looked at as the next Fire Emblem controversy.

"ZOMG IT HAS TOO MANY REPS"

Do they play differently? Are they fun?

Then shut up and enjoy it. Jeez.
I mean as long as they don't include a shulk clone, and then bring in another shulk semi-clone before Rex I think we'll be fine. Fire Emblem's inclusions were understandable but when you really step back and look at it it was pretty wild lol.
 

?????????????

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Okay, I want your reaction:

Chrom is added as a newcomer, but he's an Ike clone. Lucina returns as a Marth clone.
 

Autumn ♫

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Okay, I want your reaction:

Chrom is added as a newcomer, but he's an Ike clone. Lucina returns as a Marth clone.
I'll be a bit disappointed that he's a clone of Ike and Lucina remains a clone, since both can be really unique, but I'll also be really hyped to have all 3 protagonist from Awakening in the game and hyped that Lucina's still in the game.

Plus, clones don't take up much development time, so I wouldn't mind at all.
 

P.Kat

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Man, I hope there is still a chance for a September release. I could do with October but anytime after that, it will likely become a Christmas gift for me. Nevermind E3, I just want to get my hands on this game ASAP.
I want it as soon as possible September is too far. It'll be really great if they released it right after E3 but mostly it'll be released for September which I really don't want. I would like it to be released earlier than September WAY earlier but I have no power over that, we'll get it when we get it.
 

Jibblypuff_

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To think we'll see the game in about 5 days and then we'll probably be able to play it within the next 140~ days...
 

TMNTSSB4

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Idk, I think bringing her abilities in line with everyone else's will solve balance. Bringing things in line with others is what balance is after all :p

Idk if you play competitively, but lemme tell you, losing a game to Bayonetta because Bats Within just invalidated your combo that was guaranteed on literally every other character in the game is ridiculous.

As far as being 100% accurate to source material, Ryu is not 100% accurate but he is really accurate, and I applaud them on that. But basically no other character is nearly as accurate to their source material. Characters would either be not fun, not functional, or not fun to play against if they were truly 100% accurate to their source material. Olimar couldn't punch, Luigi wouldn't be anything like what he is, Duck Hunt Dog is literally a creation of imagination. Bayonetta did not need Bats Within to be Bayonetta in Smash. it shouldn't have been in the game in that state in the first place. There's a way to balance it, I'm sure, but it's current state is absolute bull****.
I don’t play competitively, but I do like to watch major tournaments (or anything with Earth’s Pit play...kinda lost interest once ZeRo left). However, I have seen how salty people get over losing to someone like Bayo (one of the many characters who ran Smash 4 that people hated for a good amount of time among:rosalina::4diddy::4sheik::4cloud:...maybe:4bowser:...). Plenty of people have managed to get past her through good strategy, and other ways.

Anywho, with the Bats Within, it’s apart of her Witch Time move in the games as an extra chance to survive the game (taking away half of a move isn’t really fair to her if Sakurai made her to be fully adapted from Smash). Only thing missing are her many many demons. Keeping her moveset exactly the way it is and simply nerfing the more powerful moves is all she needs (or even better, buff lower tier characters to be just as good as the top tier kids)
 

Scoliosis Jones

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It's not just fantasy vs sci-fi, it's "linear story based" vs "open ended exploration based". I'd argue the type of game counts for something, and X is a very different kind of game from 1-2 even when you ignore any superficial or aesthetic elements. That's the thing; all of X's aesthetic differences contribute to it's structural differences. It's a game based on exploration, so you have characters who can run fast and leap high and drive robots to make exploring easier. You can approach almost any area from any angle, and tackle it with any number of builds, party members, strategies, what have you. You can swim to the 'final' continent of the game as soon as chapter 3 if you want. THAT's why I think an X character makes for a better addition. It doesn't appeal to the same people who would already like Shulk and all the music and settings XB1 brought to Smash. Things like different weapon choices, armor options, character design all contribute to that.
Using a sword doesn't mean a character is necessarily boring at all, you're right. Takamaru is one of my most wanted characters. But franchises like FE get criticised for having lots of blue haired swordsmen for a reason, even when Marth/Ike are very different fighters. Characters standing out from others on the roster and within their own franchise counts for a lot. Shulk and Rex are a lot closer than Shulk and any X character would be.
To me, that stuff doesn't really make a difference to playing Smash Bros. Those are definitely differences, but what relevance does that have to a platform fighter like Smash?

Is Elma going to use exploration like in XCX in Smash? If not, then it isn't really all that important. What is important is what the character can do, and how they are characterized, and how that translates to Smash. Both Elma and Rex do well in both categories. Neither has much of a chance to be a clone of Shulk or anybody else.

In terms of how they would play in Smash, there's next to no comparison between Rex and Shulk. Not only do they not look similar whatsoever besides being male, but the way Rex works with Pyra/Mythra by default makes the gameplay possibilities different from what Shulk has, hands down.

In terms of a few other things:...running fast and leaping high isn't really something unique necessarily, as other characters in Smash run fast/jump high. The mech probably wouldn't work well outside of a final smash (and I won't go too far into that, but that could hypothetically work in favor of both options to be honest).

Having different weapon options doesn't necessarily translate to Smash anyway, as most characters use one base weapon if there's a signature weapon they use.

While I will agree it may not appeal to the same group of people, I think that's probably your strongest point for Elma's inclusion. I'm not necessarily against Elma, as I'm sure she'd be fun. I simply would like to see Rex and Pyra if it came down to the two of them.
 

PSIGuy

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Xenoblade will be looked at as the next Fire Emblem controversy.
At least it'd only be one DLC slot. For a series where all base roster characters are worlds apart. And for a character you could actually get to know in their game prior to their addition. Rex as DLC would work out so much better than Corrin as DLC it's not even funny.
 
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RE: KI characters in smash

Viridi for smash.
I'm calling it now. If Elma makes base roster and we get Rex & Pyra as DLC (which, based on Sakurai playing and loving the game while working on Smash, I can only imagine he was putting everything together right then and there), Xenoblade will be looked at as the next Fire Emblem controversy.

"ZOMG IT HAS TOO MANY REPS"

Do they play differently? Are they fun?

Then shut up and enjoy it. Jeez.
Oh god. Elma AND rex would be my perfect scenario. Having to deal with a "Muh reps" situation over that too would be exhausting
Okay, I want your reaction:

Chrom is added as a newcomer, but he's an Ike clone. Lucina returns as a Marth clone.
Lucina isnt cut and Chrom is playable. . .well I wouldnt look a gift horse in the mouth I suppose.
:061:
 

SvartWolf

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all we talk is elma, elma elma ( i liked the character though) but noone is talking the important stuff...

where is my silvanum stage?!


I NEED a silvanum stage.

(I really hope there is plenty of XCX content in the game.)
 

Zinith

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Rex is a little more similar to Shulk due to the choice of weapon (the Aegis)

He can use any type of weapon in the game, but it's not really important

Elma uses Dual Knives and Duel Guns
 

PeridotGX

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Okay, I want your reaction:

Chrom is added as a newcomer, but he's an Ike clone. Lucina returns as a Marth clone.
I'd be very mixed. I just finished Awakening as my first FE game and I enjoyed it, but I feel like 3 characters from that one game may be pushing it. And also amusement at the reactions.
 

Bradli Wartooth

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I don’t play competitively, but I do like to watch major tournaments (or anything with Earth’s Pit play...kinda lost interest once ZeRo left). However, I have seen how salty people get over losing to someone like Bayo (one of the many characters who ran Smash 4 that people hated for a good amount of time among:rosalina::4diddy::4sheik::4cloud:...maybe:4bowser:...). Plenty of people have managed to get past her through good strategy, and other ways.

Anywho, with the Bats Within, it’s apart of her Witch Time move in the games as an extra chance to survive the game (taking away half of a move isn’t really fair to her if Sakurai made her to be fully adapted from Smash). Only thing missing are her many many demons. Keeping her moveset exactly the way it is and simply nerfing the more powerful moves is all she needs (or even better, buff lower tier characters to be just as good as the top tier kids)
By saying that she's fine because people can beat her is being results-oriented, and that's never a good thing. Just because something happened to work out doesn't mean its optimal, or in this case, good design. If Bats Within only triggered on slightly-whiffed witch times, that's fine. That's cool. It's a special move in this case. The problem is that it's also attached to her air dodge, giving her a literal frame-1 airdodge, which is just flat-out terrible design. No character should be able to escape an otherwise guaranteed combo by pressing L or R. Like my last post said, there is a way to make Bats Within fine. But it's current state is just not good design. They need to, at bare minimum, remove the possibility of triggering it from the airdodge. Make it exclusively part of Witch Time or don't have it at all.
 

Kirbeh

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Okay, I want your reaction:

Chrom is added as a newcomer, but he's an Ike clone. Lucina returns as a Marth clone.
Basically what Autumn said.

-I like Awakening so having all 3 main protagonists would be neat.
-I don't mind, if not outright enjoy most clones both in Smash and other fighters.

Only downside would be the salt. I'd enjoy it at first but too much salt would probably make me salty too.
 
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