Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Swamp Sensei]

densely-naïve

Kirito fill-in

Pick one.

Corrin has problems but they aren't simulataneously stupid and way too amazing.

They make mistakes.

Hmmm, what's wrong about Ephriam?

Ephriam shouldn't be in a game with a shared main protagonist.

His entire plot basically invalidates Eirika's plot as he's already conquered the enemy nation when she finally get help through diplomacy.
He has so much plot armor that he can invade an enemy castle with four men, one of whom is a traitor, fall into a trap and still be okay.
Eirika is the one with development and growth. Ephriam just kinda stays static for the whole journey, because he's already too awesome to change.

As a character he just overpowers Eirika. What's the point of her if he can just save the day every time. The siblings are supposed to be a team and while Eirika needs Ephriam, Ephriam doesn't need Eirika.

He's too busted. Characters like Ike, Marth, Sigurd and Roy and such can make it work because they're the only main character, but Ephriam is sharing that role.

Notice the other games with multiple protagonists. Chrom and Robin compliment each other and build off their strengths and weaknesses. Lyn, Eliwood and Hector do the same. This doesn't happen in Sacred Stones. At least not enough that I feel its meaningful.

His only potential flaw that Eirika could help him with is his hotheadedness but it never leads anywhere and if you want a charming hothead, we have Hector who did it better a game earlier.

Plus he''s kinda boring but that's just a me thing.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

I haven't even played XC2 but I'd be legitimately disappointed if we didn't get Counterattack, Mor Ardain, You Will Recall Our Names, and/or my favorite: Zeke's Theme. I'm this close to buying XC2 just for the music lol.

Honestly, I really couldn't care less about rex or pyra but there's so many areas from that game that'd make amazing stages and they'd all have amazing music, give me that instead. Azurda, goromott, mor ardain, Leftherian Archipelago, uraya's forest, they'd all make fantastic stages

 

[Sarki Soliloquy]

I like how this guy tried to gatekeep us ????????????? lol

Call it gatekeeping if ya want. I was gauging his experience with the character outside of Smash, since I see the real divisiveness received towards Corrin comes after playing Fates' story.

Maybe, but the game sets them up for it; it makes sense in context. They lived a heavily sheltered lifestyle that was forced upon them, so their only life experience is through books and relationships with servants with occasional visits from siblings, and on top of that... Corrin HAS eight siblings all looking out for him/her. It's no wonder he/she is so well taken care of!



I've actually also logged around 2500 hours on Awakening as well.

Sure it does. But does Corrin ever have to answer for any atrocities s/he commits or any of his/her bonds with his/her opposing siblings being tested by s/he or his/her party's actions? How about how s/he's such a magic problem solver with pretty much every Support chain I remember? S/he's such a space cadet it hurts.

Although, I hear the Fates manga centered around Leo actually improved her character development immensely. Like, highlighting the personal confliction you might've expected to be stronger in Fates.

 

[Ridleyridster]

Monolith's president said they were thinking about it back in november, it's possible they could announce it now. I'd love that, and then X sequel after of course

I so hope this. My Wii U crapped out on me and I missed out on X when it came out. Would love to play it on the Switch.

 

[ThreeT]

I already lost all hope of Rex and Pyra being in the base roster. I just REALLY need them to be DLC. The music especially needs to be in.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

Pick one.

Corrin has problems but they aren't simulataneously stupid and way too amazing.

They make mistakes.


Ephriam shouldn't be in a game with a shared main protagonist.

His entire plot basically invalidates Eirika's plot as he's already conquered the enemy nation when she finally get help through diplomacy.
He has so much plot armor that he can invade an enemy castle with four men, one of whom is a traitor, fall into a trap and still be okay.
Eirika is the one with development and growth. Ephriam just kinda stays static for the whole journey, because he's already too awesome to change.

As a character he just overpowers Eirika. What's the point of her if he can just save the day every time. The siblings are supposed to be a team and while Eirika needs Ephriam, Ephriam doesn't need Eirika.

He's too busted. Characters like Ike, Marth, Sigurd and Roy and such can make it work because they're the only main character, but Ephriam is sharing that role.

Notice the other games with multiple protagonists. Chrom and Robin compliment each other and build off their strengths and weaknesses. Lyn, Eliwood and Hector do the same. This doesn't happen in Sacred Stones. At least not enough that I feel its meaningful.

His only potential flaw that Eirika could help him with is his hotheadedness but it never leads anywhere and if you want a charming hothead, we have Hector who did it better a game earlier.

Plus he''s kinda boring but that's just a me thing.

I really like Ephraim, but I can certainly recognize that it's probably some uniqueness goggles making me like him. He's an extremely cool character aesthetically speaking, and he's a badass. But you're very correct about his ludicrous strength and plot armor. Eirika definitely has the better plot and character development in game. Ephraim ends the game basically the same as he started, just with a more reasonably sized army following him. All that being said, he still has a wonderful design in regards to appearance and the fact that he uses a lance.

 

[?????????????]

Sure it does. But does Corrin ever have to answer for any atrocities s/he commits or any of his/her bonds with his/her opposing siblings being tested by s/he or his/her party's actions? How about how s/he's such a magic problem solver with pretty much every Support chain I remember? S/he's such a space cadet it hurts.

I don't think I can answer that first question without major spoilers, but in short... yes.

As far as support chains go, Corrin has to work pretty hard with some of them to build a relationship, ESPECIALLY Takumi, Saizo, and Hana, but I also think there's quite a bit of depth with Rinkah, Orochi, and Oboro.

Not to mention Azura.

 

[Autumn ♫]

Call it gatekeeping if ya want. I was gauging his experience with the character outside of Smash, since I see the real divisiveness received towards Corrin comes after playing Fates' story.


Sure it does. But does Corrin ever have to answer for any atrocities s/he commits or any of his/her bonds with his/her opposing siblings being tested by s/he or his/her party's actions? How about how s/he's such a magic problem solver with pretty much every Support chain I remember? S/he's such a space cadet it hurts.

Although, I hear the Fates manga centered around Leo actually improved her character development immensely. Like, highlighting the personal confliction you might've expected to be stronger in Fates.

I mean, Corrin does have to deal with losing the trust of their siblings and even

Spoiler

The death of some of them

So I definitely say that they definitely face consequences to their decision.

Also, just as a heads up, use they/their instead of s/he. It makes it so much easier to read.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I really like Ephraim, but I can certainly recognize that it's probably some uniqueness goggles making me like him. He's an extremely cool character aesthetically speaking, and he's a badass. But you're very correct about his ludicrous strength and plot armor. Eirika definitely has the better plot and character development in game. Ephraim ends the game basically the same as he started, just with a more reasonably sized army following him. All that being said, he still has a wonderful design in regards to appearance and the fact that he uses a lance.

Oh no I understand.

He's got that cool factor.

Unfortunately I just feel he doesn't have much else. Granted he doesn't really need to be anything else. He does his job well.

 

[?????????????]

As far as Corrin in Smash goes...

I think it was a really good opportunity to add a draconic character, so I'm glad they did it.

 

[Deleted member]

I have returned after a long hiatus.

Also I have a question... anything about E3 yet?

I think the trailer is going to be like Smash 4. No subspace, but very detailed cut-scenes.

 

[Nu~]

Rey hate is so tired and boring. Especially when accompanied with Luke ****-sucking, but that’s another subject.

On the subject of corrin tho, I never finished fates but I thought they were okay enough as a lord personality-wise. And they’re bi (kinda...one character IS? Really? Lol) and so am I, so thats kinda cool

In smash 4 tho? Trash.
Awful VA, no personality, and a boring playstyle that leans far too heavily on one overturned move (who the **** designed pin ). Perhaps they’re aesthetically unique, but their gameplay is unbelievably stale.

 

[One winged Devil]

Rey obviously

<Image Redacted>

LOL good one mate, you almost had me there.

 

[Arcanir]

Pick one.

Corrin has problems but they aren't simulataneously stupid and way too amazing.

They make mistakes.


Ephriam shouldn't be in a game with a shared main protagonist.

His entire plot basically invalidates Eirika's plot as he's already conquered the enemy nation when she finally get help through diplomacy.
He has so much plot armor that he can invade an enemy castle with four men, one of whom is a traitor, fall into a trap and still be okay.
Eirika is the one with development and growth. Ephriam just kinda stays static for the whole journey, because he's already too awesome to change.

As a character he just overpowers Eirika. What's the point of her if he can just save the day every time. The siblings are supposed to be a team and while Eirika needs Ephriam, Ephriam doesn't need Eirika.

He's too busted. Characters like Ike, Marth, Sigurd and Roy and such can make it work because they're the only main character, but Ephriam is sharing that role.

Notice the other games with multiple protagonists. Chrom and Robin compliment each other and build off their strengths and weaknesses. Lyn, Eliwood and Hector do the same. This doesn't happen in Sacred Stones. At least not enough that I feel its meaningful.

His only potential flaw that Eirika could help him with is his hotheadedness but it never leads anywhere and if you want a charming hothead, we have Hector who did it better a game earlier.

Plus he''s kinda boring but that's just a me thing.

Ephraim's problem isn't that he doesn't belong in the game, his problem is that his character arc is underdeveloped and thus makes the relationship between the two imbalanced.

When you look at Eirika, while she has problems, there's a clear story with her. She's naïve and new to war, she undergoes trial after trial where her naivety is tested, and eventually she makes a mistakes that causes her to realize that she needs to grow from that and become a leader willing to make the sacrifices necessary to succeed for herself and her people.

Ephraim is supposed to be the opposite: He's cocky, brash, and jumps into battle without thinking, and he neglects his duties and doesn't think too far ahead, which leads to him being looked at more as a figurehead then a true king. Ideally, the story would be he'd realize his neglect and get punished for his brash mistakes, but aside from one case (which admittedly is notable since it's a major setback and forces him to change) it's not that acknowledged and barely pops up. Eirika makes more mistakes in her story that leads to the final one, Ephraim gets a pass aside from a couple moments, which lead to him looking more perfect.

This has happened with other lord groups, so this is more a problem with IS' writing then just the character, but it is more notable with him since the story more strongly stresses their duo story aspect. If he was more balanced, he'd be a better complimentary to Eirika, but as is it ends up being pretty lopsided.

 

[TheDukeofDorks]

As far as Corrin in Smash goes...

I think it was a really good opportunity to add a draconic character, so I'm glad they did it.

I heavily disagree with this, I'd love a draconic, Manakete Fire Emblem character but Corrin in Smash isn't one of them. Just a nonsensical amalgamation of transforming limbs into mouths and spikes. Pretty sure the only time they actually turn into a dragon is for the counter and the final smash.

 

[Aaron1997]

I have returned after a long hiatus.

Also I have a question... anything about E3 yet?

I think the trailer is going to be like Smash 4. No subspace, but very detailed cut-scenes.

Well...

Nintendo's Direct is going to be 45 mins and Smash 5 is listed on the E shop (Though it's just a placeholder)

There is a Leak going that's looking decent

 

[Autumn ♫]

As far as Corrin in Smash goes...

I think it was a really good opportunity to add a draconic character, so I'm glad they did it.

I super agree! I was hoping we'd eventually get a manakete/dragon character from Fire Emblem, and Corrin's definitely the best choice they had without getting into secondary characters like Tiki and Nowi.

I still kinda wish they used Azura instead, simply because a dancing lancer would also be really unique, but I'm also really happy with what they did with Corrin's moves.

 

[Ridleyridster]

Rey hate is so tired and boring. Especially when accompanied with Luke ****-sucking, but that’s another subject.

On the subject of corrin tho, I never finished fates but I thought they were okay enough as a lord personality-wise. And they’re bi so I can relate

In smash 4 tho? Trash.
Awful VA, no personality, and a boring playstyle that leans far too heavily on one overturned move (who the **** designed pin ). Perhaps they’re aesthetically unique, but their gameplay is unbelievably stale.

I agree on the Rey hate being old and pahtetic, but Luke...always my biggest crush and childhood idol. Love, love, love him.

Corrin related, not my favorite lord, but definitely not as bad as some people make him/her out to be.

 

[?????????????]

I heavily disagree with this, I'd love a draconic, Manakete Fire Emblem character but Corrin in Smash isn't one of them. Just a nonsensical amalgamation of transforming limbs into mouths and spikes. Pretty sure the only time they actually turn into a dragon is for the counter and the final smash.

To be fair, this is something Corrin actually does in Fates. They can partially turn parts of themselves draconic for certain attacks, or can transform into a full-blown dragon using a Dragonstone.

But you'd rather have someone completely manakete? Honestly, I think that'd be great if they had that as well; I think Tiki is the obvious choice.

 

[Sarki Soliloquy]

The blood on my hands feel cold this morning.

I don't think I can answer that first question without major spoilers, but in short... yes.

As far as support chains go, Corrin has to work pretty hard with some of them to build a relationship, ESPECIALLY Takumi, Saizo, and Hana, but I also think there's quite a bit of depth with Rinkah, Orochi, and Oboro.

Not to mention Azura.

I'll say Birthright does a better job making them pay. But O Naga, the ending scenarios for all 3 paths really don't reflect well on them. After those loses & all the devastation wrought on both nations, I find it pretty hard to forgive them when even the siblings vindicate them for what they've done, or what they've forced upon them. Fates' story is handled very shoddy in general, so chalk it up where you'd like.

I mean, Corrin does have to deal with losing the trust of their siblings and even

Spoiler

The death of some of them

So I definitely say that they definitely face consequences to their decision.

Also, just as a heads up, use they/their instead of s/he. It makes it so much easier to read.

Then they end up faceturning them by two endings because they're just such a great guy.

As far as Corrin in Smash goes...

I think it was a really good opportunity to add a draconic character, so I'm glad they did it.

Heeeey, some common ground.

 

[Metal Shop X]

LOL good one mate, you almost had me there.

Huh, buddy, I think you are going to get an warning for this image since it have a swear in it.

Edit: Annnnd I was too late, dang it.

---

Also, to be on the main topic, I just say that:

I really like shapeshifting.

Corrin's Shapeshifting is pretty cool.

Thus, even if I wouldn't say they are the best character ever, I still really like Corrin for this and others aspects like design & how they play in Smash. (Btw, I played Conquest & Birthright if anyone is curious)

 

[NeonBurrito]

Man, Mary Sues in Star Wars were my favorite part of Super Smash Brothers for Nintendo Switch. I am glad we are discussing them in the Super Smash Brothers for Nintendo Switch thread.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

I heavily disagree with this, I'd love a draconic, Manakete Fire Emblem character but Corrin in Smash isn't one of them. Just a nonsensical amalgamation of transforming limbs into mouths and spikes. Pretty sure the only time they actually turn into a dragon is for the counter and the final smash.

He has a couple throws doesn't he as well? And I'm not quite sure how they'd even make a proper dragon transforming character work tbh, they went with the limbs thing for corrin for a reason

 

[Roberk]

As far as Corrin in Smash goes...

I think it was a really good opportunity to add a draconic character, so I'm glad they did it.

The dragon character should've been Tiki with a dragonstone to actually transform into a dragon, not just some limb shapeshifting. Maybe something like in Warriors where you fill up a gauge to eventually activate it and have your powerful dragon form. While Tiki is a secondary character/not a lord, I think most can agree that hear multiple appearances can make the argument for her importance. Inb4 "no transfurmashun" people.

 

[NintenRob]

As far as Corrin in Smash goes...

I think it was a really good opportunity to add a draconic character, so I'm glad they did it.

Personally I think Corrin makes for a pathetic dragon, looks more like a Goat with wings. I just think the design in general is hideous.


As a concept, I think Volga from Hyrule Warriors does it better, although I don't particularly want him in Smash. Tiki was probably the ideal Fire Emblem Dragon

 

[?????????????]

While Tiki is a secondary character/not a lord, I think most can agree that hear multiple appearances can make the argument for her importance.

That reminds me...

How do you all feel about Anna?

 

[Idon]

If we do get Xenoblade Chronicles X as a stage somewhere, I am muting Black Tar, its skell remix, and anything

That reminds me...

How do you all feel about Anna?

Anna's pretty much the Pikachu of Fire Emblem.

She's cute, she's everywhere, she's a staple of the franchise,
but ultimately, she's not all that important or controversial.

So yeah, I think everyone here at least likes her a little.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

I heavily disagree with this, I'd love a draconic, Manakete Fire Emblem character but Corrin in Smash isn't one of them. Just a nonsensical amalgamation of transforming limbs into mouths and spikes. Pretty sure the only time they actually turn into a dragon is for the counter and the final smash.

And the up and down throws... And a victory animation.

 

[Autumn ♫]

That reminds me...

How do you all feel about Anna?

I personally think Anna would be a nice choice, not necessarily my first choice, but a pretty decent one. Her being in almost every game makes me overlook her secondary character status, and even then she's a main character in Heroes. She'd have a really nice moveset too, being able to use bows and axes and daggers.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

That reminds me...

How do you all feel about Anna?

I would understand her inclusion but there's other Fire Emblem characters I would prefer. I think she could have a fun Merchant-themed fighting style where she uses multiple weapon types in her moveset because she sells all of that stuff, and she could also have some money related moves.

 

[Sarki Soliloquy]

As far as Corrin in Smash goes, its pretty hard to argue against Nintendo/HAL/Bandai Namco didn't do a good job capturing the essence of their character & referencing their animation pool from Fates. I mean, they rep the dragonstones & have a freakin' chainsword! But alas, I do wonder how warm of a welcome Corrin will be received if they return for consecutive Smashes, since I get the impression a lot of people feel like they were shoehorned. Almost as if FE is going to have so many revolving characters over the years that is it really worth keeping most of these vets around just because they have a special weapon or gimmick?

Personally I think Corrin makes for a pathetic dragon, looks more like a Goat with wings. I just think the design in general is hideous.


As a concept, I think Volga from Hyrule Warriors does it better, although I don't particularly want him in Smash. Tiki was probably the ideal Fire Emblem Dragon

That's because Corrin is Hoshidan by blood, and their analogue to dragons is based on the qilin of primarily Chinese legends.

 

[RandomAce]

I really like Corrin and his design, both in Fates and Smash 4.

Idk why, but I never imagined my self playing Corrin back in 2015, but I glad I did because he’s one of my favorite character in Smash 4.

Even if he wasn’t added in Smash 4, he would’ve been of the top candidates for Smash 5, since he offers a more unique style compared to Celica, and fits perfectly for Smash 5’s project plan back in 2016.

 

[Nu~]

I agree on the Rey hate being old and pahtetic, but Luke...always my biggest crush and childhood idol. Love, love, love him.

Corrin related, not my favorite lord, but definitely not as bad as some people make him/her out to be.

I admit that I grew up in the prequel era so I don’t have the same connection, but I watched the old movies on DVD as a kid and Luke was p cool. But I still don’t get the obsecene hatred of luke’s character in TLJ. I thought it was a really interesting character development arc + the deconstruction, then reconstruction of what it means to be a Jedi was awesome.


But anyway yea uhhh Corrin lol. The character is held back by the mediocrity of the story they’re in moreso than them being awful on their own. Imo

 

[One winged Devil]

That reminds me...

How do you all feel about Anna?

Anna is cute, nuff said.

 

[Sarki Soliloquy]

He has a couple throws doesn't he as well? And I'm not quite sure how they'd even make a proper dragon transforming character work tbh, they went with the limbs thing for corrin for a reason

Maybe I like body horror, but Corrin's Smash moveset is pretty clever with how they weaved dragonmorphing & sword techniques.

If we ever get Tiki or some other taguel/laguz, I can imagine a proper human/beast switching moveset would not be too different from Valkenhayn from BlazBlue. Where its just one button to basically go into a 2nd moveset.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

I think something interesting about Anna is that she could get her own costume design for Smash and it wouldn't be out of place since she is in a different outfit in basically every game. You could pick one outfit from a previous game for her, but that will be outdated by the next game.

 

[Nu~]

Even if he wasn’t added in Smash 4, he would’ve been of the top candidates for Smash 5, since he offers a more unique style compared to Celica, and fits perfectly for Smash 5’s project plan back in 2016.

That’s brazy. I will never understand what makes banal sword slashes mixed with L O N G S T A B S unique.

Especially compared to what I see in the Celica support thread

Swamp Sensei I see u revoking likes smh

 

[ReeseBalaski]

Corrin I'd say is more a victim of circumstance more than anything, with their situation and naivete playing in the worst ways possible. To me, these factors really make them look much worse than they are.

Corrin in Smash is pretty cool tho. Their moveset clicked with me immediately.

 

[Roberk]

That reminds me...

How do you all feel about Anna?

I think a tertiary/NPC role fits her much better. Being playable in recent installments was nice, but it wasn't exactly Anna. Anna is the character that you mainly only see in super-obscure shops/areas in super-obscure games/series, she doesn't really scream Smash recognizability. At least FE lords are front and center on their cover arts. I'd much rather for Smash to have more NPC characters in general: let Anna run an in-game shop so that we can use the in-game currency more or better yet, DLC!. It would suit her better as a whole.

Though if she was playable, she'd definitely be interesting. I could see a shop/inventory/forge mechanics being implemented, and with the wealth of weapons she has used, she'd no doubt be unique with these things combined.

Unfortunately, Anna seems to be being phased out. She doesn't have much of a role in mainline FE, as in the latest entry, SOV, she wasn't even in it. (Although this could just be staying true to the original game that SOV was a remake of.) A big reason for Anna's inclusion, Heroes, isn't putting much stock into her as well. The two other main OCs, Sharena and Alfonse, have been getting considerably more focus while another OC, Fjorm, is making her way into Anna's spot within the trio. Even in Cipher, when Heroes gets cards, Alfonse, Sharena, and Fjorm got cards, but not Anna. I just think that one of the main arguments for her inclusion, newly established relevance/importance, seems to be on the decline fast.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Okay legit question, and I mean NO offense by this, but where is all the Lycanroc stuff coming from? I'm legit just asking because I haven't the slightest clue, I played Sun and Moon to the end but have yet to finish US and UM or watch much of anything involving the anime. I'm about as casual as a Pokemon fan as they come, so I just don't keep up with its trends very well.

Delzethin made a bandwagon for his favourite pokemon

Duck hunt dog can also stand on 2 legs if it needs to, lycanroc can't do that

Other than a taunt, when does it do that? Regardless, IT. DOESN'T. MATTER. IT. IS A. CARTOONY. GAME. IT. NEVER. MATTERED. BEFORE. AND. NEVER. WILL.

Main gimmick or not, there's plenty more to Lycanroc than just, "It's nighttime! Can't wait for my Rockruff to evolve into a Midnight Lycanroc!" It's got it's own exclusive Z-move, and that's something not many Pokémon can say. It also has geokinesis, which is something you could easily get creative with when making a moveset.



I appreciate the rebuttal to the holding items argument, but that last part isn't fair to Lycanroc supporters. You can't dismiss it as being "forced" just because you can't see the same potential in it.

It got it's own Z move to make it seem more special because they realized they ****ed up advertising it in SM