Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[MoonlitIllusion]

Brawl is the best selling fighting game of all time

by nearly 5 million too omg

 

[Fenriraga]

It may not be the first, but he does pay attention to it.

Also, this is a common misconception, but Smash balance isn't just 1v1. There's also doubles, free for all, items, stages, and all other factors to consider. Just because competitive is where it seems to matter most doesn't mean that the others aren't taken into consideration. Adding characters upon characters isn't a simple addition, it's multiplication and it wouldn't be ignored if Sakurai wants a game that isn't lopsided in how its characters interact.

I never said it would be ignored, I just meant I sincerely doubt it's a priority for him. He still wants to make the game fun above all else, and while balance does play into fun, keep in mind his philosophy of fun doesn't really concern the size of the roster. He's not the kind of man I see looking at an individual character and noticing the ins and outs of what makes that character as good, or bad, as they are. If they're fun, then balance is an afterthought. If it was any other way, he wouldn't have never touched characters like Jigglypuff, and Ganondorf wouldn't just be a slower Captain Falcon since that pretty much makes him inferior by comparison.

Still, as mentioned before, 4 is probably the most balanced roster, all things considered. So I doubt it'll turn out unbearable.

 

[Roberk]

Here's my pokemon
View attachment 147213

>Turtwig
Cultured

May be a little late to this, but oh well.
View attachment 147224

Also, this imgur leak has me really conflicted. On one hand, I'd be ecstatic if it was true, as some of my most wanted characters are there (namely K. Rool, Geno, Simon, and Mimikyu). At the same time though, I want to be surprised. As much as I loved the inclusion/reveal of Roy and Ryu back in 2015, through the whole presentation I couldn't help but think "Man, how crazy would this be if it was a surprise?". I don't want that feeling for the entirety of the roster for this game, as if we end up getting confirmation of somewhat out-there characters like Porky or Geno+Mallow, the list is seemingly all but confirmed.

Granted, if it were true, it could be a Gematsu leak situation where the info is true but outdated/incomplete, but either way, I'd rather go through the speculation period wondering "who?" not "when?".

>Torterra
Cultured

https://www.nintendo.com/games/detail/super-smash-bros-switch
So apparently Smash is on the EShop now.
Probably just a demo or even only a preorder, but just imagine. If they blow their load on June 12th with reveals and info, after the grand finale of the tournament, Sakurai and/or Reggie come out and say "And it's out, RIGHT NOW!"

 

[PlayerOneTyler]

https://www.nintendo.com/games/detail/super-smash-bros-switch
So apparently Smash is on the EShop now.
Probably just a demo or even only a preorder, but just imagine. If they blow their load on June 12th with reveals and info, after the grand finale of the tournament, Sakurai and/or Reggie come out and say "And it's out, RIGHT NOW!"

Woah there buddy, let's keep our expectations in check, lol.

 

[Sigran101]

There's been a lot of talk about Sora and I thought I'd give my 2 cents. I think he's cool. I've never played Kingdom hearts but I totally get the demand. However I am 1000% against his inclusion in smash. Because with Sora comes Disney. Probably Donald duck and Goofy in some form in the game whether it's assist trophy or regular trophy or part of a stage. And the second we have content not originating from a video game, I will have to resign myself to the eventual inevitability of Goku shreck and spongebob on the roster. There has to be an uncrossable line somewhere or smash will eventually become Mugen in just a matter of time. I think that line has to be no characters or content not from a video game. I'm never upset when a character I don't want gets in because I'm happy for the fans that got what they wanted. However if Sora, and by extension Disney characters, are in the game I will be legitimately upset. Not because I hate Sora. I love Sora. I just hate what his inclusion would mean for the future of smash.

 

[SlickWylde]

Absolutely 1 unique character. For me unique, novel characters are infinitely more interesting and add much more value to the game. Doesn't even really matter who the character is really. (I mean I'd be mad about Goku lol, but within reason).

It's actually really surprising to me that no one else seems to agree. Really highlights the extent to which people have wildly different priorities when it comes to their ideal roster, even beyond which characters they may or may not have a connection too. For me it's definitely quality > quantity. For the same reason I actually support cuts as well. Cuts shouldn't be a bad word imo. But that's another topic entirely I suppose.

I totally agree with you. I understand people wanna see their favorites though.

 

[Cosmic77]

Cuts will have to happen at some point; Sakurai can't continue to port over data indefinitely. Sooner or later, he'll have to basically start development from scratch, and when that happens, a roster of 70 veterans plus whatever newcomers he wants to add is gonna take forever to create. Not to mention the fact that he'll still have to create all the different modes, stages, items, and trophies.

If we get no cuts in this game, I'd start preparing for quite a few cuts in Smash 6.

 

[PlayerOneTyler]

There's been a lot of talk about Sora and I thought I'd give my 2 cents. I think he's cool. I've never played Kingdom hearts but I totally get the demand. However I am 1000% against his inclusion in smash. Because with Sora comes Disney. Probably Donald duck and Goofy in some form in the game whether it's assist trophy or regular trophy or part of a stage. And the second we have content not originating from a video game, I will have to resign myself to the eventual inevitability of Goku shreck and spongebob on the roster. There has to be an uncrossable line somewhere or smash will eventually become Mugen in just a matter of time. I think that line has to be no characters or content not from a video game. I'm never upset when a character I don't want gets in because I'm happy for the fans that got what they wanted. However if Sora, and by extension Disney characters, are in the game I will be legitimately upset. Not because I hate Sora. I love Sora. I just hate what his inclusion would mean for the future of smash.

There are plenty of ways to include Sora without Disney. As an ex-employee of Disney Interactive, I can tell you that they hold their IP very close to their chests, especially ones like Donald, Goofy, and Mickey Mouse. I don't think you have to worry about that kind of stuff being included. Sora would be a licensing nightmare solely because it has to go through Disney and Disney has to do a lot of communication and paperwork with with Square-Enix (even though Sora is property of the Walt Disney Company, it still has to happen). I think Sakurai would take the jump if he really wanted Sora in, but I just don't really know what Disney's response to that would be. It could happen, but it just seems super unlikely. I'd be really excited if it did happen though.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

Cuts will have to happen at some point; Sakurai can't continue to port over data indefinitely. Sooner or later, he'll have to basically start development from scratch, and when that happens, a roster of 70 veterans plus whatever newcomers he wants to add is gonna take forever to create. Not to mention the fact that he'll still have to create all the different modes, stages, items, and trophies.

If we get no cuts in this game, I'd start preparing for quite a few cuts in Smash 6.

What reason would there be for him to not continue reusing assets though? From what I heard every Smash game thus far has used at least a few assets from the previous game.

 

[Arcadenik]

by nearly 5 million too omg

Nice. I think Smash should have a Tekken character and a Mortal Kombat character in addition to a Street Fighter character. Smash could be the battlefield where characters from the best-selling fighting games duke it out.

Mario vs. Ryu vs. Heihachi vs. Scorpion only in SUPER SMASH BROTHERS!!!!!

Make it happen!

 

[RileyXY1]

What reason would there be for him to not continue reusing assets though? From what I heard every Smash game thus far has used at least a few assets from the previous game.

When a console becomes so advanced that porting assets from older consoles becomes completely impossible.

 

[TheWozny]

How ****ing ironic is it that Smash 4, which happens to have the largest roster so far, is the most balanced in the series?

I feel like one of the few who thinks Smash 4 is horribly balanced.

Most of the characters feel gimmicky rather than balanced (i.e Cloud, Bowser Jr.)

In this sense, I hope Smash 5 isn’t like 4.

But that’s me.

 

[Cosmic77]

What reason would there be for him to not continue reusing assets though? From what I heard every Smash game thus far has used at least a few assets from the previous game.

There's a difference between reusing a few assets and basically porting over every character and giving them a sleek makeover.

Even if Sakurai took a few things from Brawl, it's pretty obvious that the changes made to the characters and the mechanics of the game in Smash 4 were major. That was with a roster of 35 characters. Imagine Sakurai doing the same thing with a roster double that number.

 

[MBRedboy31]

What reason would there be for him to not continue reusing assets though? From what I heard every Smash game thus far has used at least a few assets from the previous game.

Well, the next Smash after Smash Switch we can probably assume will have a significant graphical increase so, while he will be able to reuse assets, he won’t be able to reuse as many as he could for Smash Switch (for example, most of the character models wouldn’t be able to be reused.)

 

[Arcanir]

How ****ing ironic is it that Smash 4, which happens to have the largest roster so far, is the most balanced in the series?

After numerous patches, 4 was near Brawl levels of balance at release considering how ridiculous characters like Diddy were and how bad characters like Marth was.

I never said it would be ignored, I just meant I sincerely doubt it's a priority for him. He still wants to make the game fun above all else, and while balance does play into fun, keep in mind his philosophy of fun doesn't really concern the size of the roster. He's not the kind of man I see looking at an individual character and noticing the ins and outs of what makes that character as good, or bad, as they are. If they're fun, then balance is an afterthought. If it was any other way, he wouldn't have never touched characters like Jigglypuff, and Ganondorf wouldn't just be a slower Captain Falcon since that pretty much makes him inferior by comparison.

Still, as mentioned before, 4 is probably the most balanced roster, all things considered. So I doubt it'll turn out unbearable.

The thing is balance also plays into workload, which is where it does matter. While I doubt Sakurai would ignore characters he wants due to balance, he will push some to the wayside if the workload becomes too much, and that can result in cuts as development moves forward. We are at a point where we're basically arguing for him to do, say 70x70 interactions at the very least, multiple ways for those interactions to occur, and different modes and other features and changes that will appear alongside them. That's a lot to consider with finite time and resources, and that can result in characters getting pushed off if it's too much to handle.

 

[Roberk]

What reason would there be for him to not continue reusing assets though? From what I heard every Smash game thus far has used at least a few assets from the previous game.

And most of those games have had cuts from the previous game. Also, assets aren't indefinite. They get old, data could just not work on newer systems. There's a tipping point, eventually, most everything has to be remade at some point.

 

[Phaazoid]

Woah there buddy, let's keep our expectations in check, lol.

I fully expect smash 5 to launch in it's entirety as soon as the E3 trailer ends

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I fully expect smash 5 to launch in it's entirety as soon as the E3 trailer ends

Including the DLC orrrrrrrr?

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

Nice. I think Smash should have a Tekken character and a Mortal Kombat character in addition to a Street Fighter character. Smash could be the battlefield where characters from the best-selling fighting games duke it out.

Mario vs. Ryu vs. Heihachi vs. Scorpion only in SUPER SMASH BROTHERS!!!!!

Make it happen!

tbh the only problem with Heihachi could be his inclusion in playstation all stars, he wouldn't really play much different so it could be seen as ripping them off, maybe going with another tekken character could work better instead

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

I fully expect smash 5 to launch in it's entirety as soon as the E3 trailer ends

I hope they announce Smash 6 at E3.

Spoiler

And if anyone makes a "Super Smash Bros. for Wii U IS Smash 6" you will be immediately added to my hitlist

 

[Polan]

So now it turns out that it is a "bad" thing that a fighting game has more characters? Beats me. Also keep in mind they MIGHT have been able to transfer most of the stuff from the WiiU game.

smash bros fans are weird. like in other parts of the gaming community, fighting games with less characters than the previous entry and with a 60 dollar price tag get roasted and bomb at release....and then there's smash bros fans which want half of the roster cut and then added back as dlc because they feel that the roster is bloated. plus i've seen some people in this thread wanting smash to adopt the "games as a service" model even though that model is literal ass cancer and most other gaming communities are tired of it.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Minimal cuts is honestly a possibility.

Brawl had cuts but it also had a long adventure mode to make as well. Apparently SSE was going to be made by another studio but Sakurai had to shift development on it and had trouble with it. If SSE didn't happen, its possible that we would have had either more newcomers or less cuts. Of course, Brawl also had that big delay to fit Sonic in as well.

Smash 3DS and Wii U had to split development between two versions of the game. This definitely took up time and resources. We know that we would have had Ice Climbers if the 3DS version did not exist but we might have had other characters if we only had one version.

It's because of the apparent lack of these development roadblocks that I see a not cuts scenario as possible. I don't think Smash Switch's development will be that hard or strenuous. That and the fact that the Smash cast is already about as graphically impressive as the Switch can make them.

 

[RileyXY1]

And most of those games have had cuts from the previous game. Also, assets aren't indefinite. They get old, data could just not work on newer systems. There's a tipping point, eventually, most everything has to be remade at some point.

Yeah. Eventually, Sakurai won't be able to reuse assets anymore. This will result in smaller rosters.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Doesn't Tekken reuse assets all the time back from the original? I think I read something like that on GAF before MVCI came out

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Don't know how credible this is, but I pulled it from Google.

Best selling fighting games of all time:

• Super Smash Bros. Brawl - 13.21 million.
• Super Smash Bros. for Nintendo 3DS - 8.81 million.
• Tekken 3 - 8.5 million.
• Tekken 5 - 8.2 million.
• Super Smash Bros. Melee - 8.12 million.
• Street Fighter II: The World Warrior - 6.3 million.
• Mortal Kombat - 6 million.
• Super Smash Bros. - 5.55 million.

Smash > All other fighting games

 

[Arcadenik]

tbh the only problem with Heihachi could be his inclusion in playstation all stars, he wouldn't really play much different so it could be seen as ripping them off, maybe going with another tekken character could work better instead

I doubt that. Snake was in DreamMix TV World Fighters and he doesn't play the same in Smash. Simon Belmont was also in that game and he might be in Smash too if the rumors are true.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Don't know how credible this is, but I pulled it from Google.

Best selling fighting games of all time:

• Super Smash Bros. Brawl - 13.21 million.
• Super Smash Bros. for Nintendo 3DS - 8.81 million.
• Tekken 3 - 8.5 million.
• Tekken 5 - 8.2 million.
• Super Smash Bros. Melee - 8.12 million.
• Street Fighter II: The World Warrior - 6.3 million.
• Mortal Kombat - 6 million.
• Super Smash Bros. - 5.55 million.

Smash > All other fighting games

 

[Zeox]

I missed like +5 pages, any new leaks or any new info that destroys the leaks we have and also my hopes?

 

[Zippo]

https://mobile.twitter.com/Wario64/status/1004794841161584645?ref_src=twsrc^tfw&ref_url=https://s9e.github.io/iframe/twitter.min.html#1004794841161584645

...

 

[SuperiorYoshi87]

Ridley is always rumored.... he was rumored in Smash 4 too. Look how that turned out.


Every time a new Smash comes out some "rumour" pops up with Ridley in it and every time he doesn't get in. I'm not at all surprised if this is all bull... we may not even need to wait till Nintendo does their direct we may find out sooner that this is a bunch of malarkey.

 

[SirCamp]

I fully expect smash 5 to launch in it's entirety as soon as the E3 trailer ends

Don't forget, Banjo will also be announced.

 

[UltimateWario]

I missed like +5 pages, any new leaks or any new info that destroys the leaks we have and also my hopes?

It was leaked that we’re skipping Smash 5 and going straight to 6, then THAT was cancelled and we’re getting a remake of 6. Unfortunately, all the good characters were in 5. The subtitle for 6 is “Fire Emblem vs. Kid Icarus - Shota Smackdown”.

 

[Phaazoid]

Don't forget, Banjo will also be announced.

Ridley is my Banjo

Including the DLC orrrrrrrr?

Yep, everything. several years worth of dlc, including all of the gen 8 pokemon.

 

[StrangeMann]

https://mobile.twitter.com/Wario64/status/1004794841161584645?ref_src=twsrc^tfw&ref_url=https://s9e.github.io/iframe/twitter.min.html#1004794841161584645

...View attachment 147236

I'm getting a really good feeling we'll know the demo roster before the end of monday.

 

[IronWarrior94]

Ridley is always rumored.... he was rumored in Smash 4 too. Look how that turned out.


Every time a new Smash comes out some "rumour" pops up with Ridley in it and every time he doesn't get in. I'm not at all surprised if this is all bull... we may not even need to wait till Nintendo does their direct we may find out sooner that this is a bunch of malarkey.

Except this time some supposedly credible leakers(not Vergeben) have been hinting/teasing Ridley for a while now.

 

[papagenos]

Cuts will have to happen at some point; Sakurai can't continue to port over data indefinitely. Sooner or later, he'll have to basically start development from scratch, and when that happens, a roster of 70 veterans plus whatever newcomers he wants to add is gonna take forever to create. Not to mention the fact that he'll still have to create all the different modes, stages, items, and trophies.

If we get no cuts in this game, I'd start preparing for quite a few cuts in Smash 6.

I honestly believe whatever Smash 6 IS it will have to be different in many ways.

I mean I'm honestly under the impression here with smash 5 we will get little to no cuts this time, about as many newcomers as we did last time, AND DLC. That could leave us with 75-80+ character roster when all is said and done.

The whole idea of going for the "ultimate smash" roster and the fact we had a ballot to finally get those fan favorite characters in this time (hopefully) probably means sakurai or nintendo knows this is, in a certain manner of thinking, the final smash game, you simply cant make the next one without cuts and disappointment or changing up what smash is.

I could see this game being announced to have "infinite DLC" where we get characters slowly added for years so a "new" smash game isnt whats being sold over the next say 5 years, its just more content, i could see them doing Melee HD in a few years to give us a "new" smash game BUT not a true new smash game, I could see them doing a nintendo smash racing or party game or something else besides a fighting game but with the spirit of smash bros, It could be some unforseen experience on whatever the next nintendo console has that improves the game in some different way but has cuts and maybe again has "infinite DLC" so the next game slowly adds everyone back in over time keeping its life span going for a while...

point is where ever smash goes after this one it wont simply be a 75-80 character roster that will turn into 90-100 next game, it cant happen.

 

[Zeox]

It was leaked that we’re skipping Smash 5 and going straight to 6, then THAT was cancelled and we’re getting a remake of 6. Unfortunately, all the good characters were in 5. The subtitle for 6 is “Fire Emblem vs. Kid Icarus - Shota Smackdown”.

Well crap, this is what happens when you skip some pages, everything changes so fast...

 

[Fenriraga]

Ridley is always rumored.... he was rumored in Smash 4 too. Look how that turned out.


Every time a new Smash comes out some "rumour" pops up with Ridley in it and every time he doesn't get in. I'm not at all surprised if this is all bull... we may not even need to wait till Nintendo does their direct we may find out sooner that this is a bunch of malarkey.

I completely understand your skepticism, and you're right that this isn't exactly a 'leak' we haven't dealt with before. But no previous leak with Ridley has ever gained as much traction and evidence as this one has. In fact, barely any Smash leaks period have ever had this much possibility riding on it. This isn't a case of people pointlessly getting their hopes up (Well, mostly), this is a case of a leak with a decent amount of chance to it that just so happens to include Ridley.

Not to mention several other credible sources the past few months have not-so-subtly teased Ridley's inclusion.

All that being said, of course no one should take full belief in this leak. There's still a higher chance it's fake rather than real, all things considered. But it's got too much riding on it to be written off completely.

 

[Nekoo]

There's been a lot of talk about Sora and I thought I'd give my 2 cents. I think he's cool. I've never played Kingdom hearts but I totally get the demand. However I am 1000% against his inclusion in smash. Because with Sora comes Disney. Probably Donald duck and Goofy in some form in the game whether it's assist trophy or regular trophy or part of a stage. And the second we have content not originating from a video game, I will have to resign myself to the eventual inevitability of Goku shreck and spongebob on the roster. There has to be an uncrossable line somewhere or smash will eventually become Mugen in just a matter of time. I think that line has to be no characters or content not from a video game. I'm never upset when a character I don't want gets in because I'm happy for the fans that got what they wanted. However if Sora, and by extension Disney characters, are in the game I will be legitimately upset. Not because I hate Sora. I love Sora. I just hate what his inclusion would mean for the future of smash.

You know that out of all of the Kingdom Hearts game, Sora is with Donald and Goofy as a team only for two games? Those two games being KH/KHII and that, starting with KHII they made more and more boss battle/Battle and games where Sora have to fight alone right?
Donal and Goofy are a non-issues in Sora's inclusion.

At worst, you'll get them for a Trinity Final Smash cameo.
But any person with minimum taste will tell you that Sora's best Solo move that could fit in a final smash that isn't Drive form would be Ragnarok, or a combo of Ars Arcanum and Ragnarok

Sora legitimately and ultimately fill all of the bills to get in Smash. And it's not our favorite Duck and Dog that's the problem, it's the Licencing issue, but we now know how does it work thanks to that KHIII event, so it's up to Sakurai/Square/Disney

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

Yeah. Eventually, Sakurai won't be able to reuse assets anymore. This will result in smaller rosters.

Well seeing as how they completely brought the assests from breath of the wild from the Wii u to the switch I don't think they'll have a problem this gen.

Ridley is always rumored.... he was rumored in Smash 4 too. Look how that turned out.


Every time a new Smash comes out some "rumour" pops up with Ridley in it and every time he doesn't get in. I'm not at all surprised if this is all bull... we may not even need to wait till Nintendo does their direct we may find out sooner that this is a bunch of malarkey.

Ridley wasn't mentioned beyond 4chan rumors then. That's why people are looking at this differently. Still speculation obviously just saying it isn't the same.